Exactly, there are two very different issues here being fixed/broken. One is people jumping out of PUG queues and TRIBBLE over their team in Fleet Alert. This is broken and should be fixed (and this method fixes it).
The other issue is No Win Scenario. If you go through with this blanket change there will be almost no one doing NWS. The greater part of the community who does NWS does farming for a while, and then on the last run before someone has to go they will do an Accolade run. If you make this change, there pretty much will only be accolade runs once in a bluemoon.
No Win Scenario farming is neither broken nor an exploit. Take NWS off of this blanket change. Fix Fleet Alert, leave NWS the hell alone or you will lose a lot of activity, a LOT of activity from your most active gamers.
It clearly is an exploit if you do not have a timer for leaving early, as Cryptic has indicated they have wanted to slow the progression down. But hey that's too late for those fleets that have been exploiting it to help their fleet to T5. It's just meant overall with these changes that smaller fleets and larger fleets are now going to suffer the price of the inevitable grind, wait, grind, wait. You can also thank the person or persons whomever they may be for reporting this to PWE after how many months or so?
Exactly, there are two very different issues here being fixed/broken. One is people jumping out of PUG queues and TRIBBLE over their team in Fleet Alert. This is broken and should be fixed (and this method fixes it).
The other issue is No Win Scenario. If you go through with this blanket change there will be almost no one doing NWS. The greater part of the community who does NWS does farming for a while, and then on the last run before someone has to go they will do an Accolade run. If you make this change, there pretty much will only be accolade runs once in a bluemoon.
No Win Scenario farming is neither broken nor an exploit. Take NWS off of this blanket change. Fix Fleet Alert, leave NWS the hell alone or you will lose a lot of activity, a LOT of activity from your most active gamers.
You can still play NWS for marks. you don't need to WIN you just need to play the scenario to it's conclusion. Whether that means victory or flaming death is irrelevant.
Just to reiterate as plainly as possible: If the freighter dies you still get the same marks as before.
Before, people could leave NWS early and get their marks. Now you have to play through win or lose before you get the reward.
That's a good thing, I think. Definitely from Cryptic's point of view.
In what way is this a good thing for Cryptic?
You are effectively neutering the NWS farming that is taking place now. With these changes, players who have 3 or more toons who can do NWS farming, will just group together and farm with each other. Those who have only one toon will be able to do one farm run with a large +20 minute break in between each. It's unlikely players are going to do many runs together if they have that large of a break in play, unless they have multiple toons to swap to each time they get a cooldown.
So it is pretty much undeniable that with this change, a lot fewer people are going to be doing NWS, and a lot fewer people are going to be doing NWS anywhere near as much as they were. This can in no way be a good thing for Cryptic.
And, as uraziel, numbers, and porch have all pointed out, this change will disproportionately hurt the players who are newer to NWS.
As Numbers said, "keep in mind that one way allot of new people learn, and get there first win, is by joining a farming group who will farm till wave 9 for a bunch of runs and then go for wave 10. That practice from farming is how new people learned and got good enough to beat 10, now they are just **** out of luck.
Professional groups are going to be less willing to allow an amateur to join when they know they have to go for wave 10 on the first try with them. All cryptic has done is hurt the people still trying to beat no win scenaro, and helped absolutely noone..."
Again, in what way is this a good thing for Cryptic?
This change will bring about the following with respect to NWS:
Fewer players (x) playing less (y) in a given amount of time: check.
Fewer players (x1) gaining experience and practice doing NWS thereby expanding the pool of possible players (y1): check. check.
Hmm, no, I just don't see how this is a good thing, for Cryptic or their playerbase.
Obviously. But with a change like this, there will be fewer players, who will also be playing NWS less, for the above reasons, which will not be a good change either for Cryptic, or their playerbase. If this is bad for Cryptic, and bad for their playerbase, please defend why this change with respect to NWS should go through.
please defend why this change with respect to NWS should go through.
Seriously? It ONLY affects people who bail before the mission is complete. These are typically referred to as "exploiters". Thus all your grandiose claims about how bad it is are based on a deeply flawed understanding of what players actually do with the mission.
Seriously? It ONLY affects people who bail before the mission is complete. These are typically referred to as "exploiters". Thus all your grandiose claims about how bad it is are based on a deeply flawed understanding of what players actually do with the mission.
Maybe you as someone who doesn't run NWS very often have the deeply flawed understanding of what players actually do with the mission. The way you learn to beat no win is by farming it to wave 9 and warping, its good practice and you don't have to wait 30 minutes to run it again. This is very common practice among the no win scenario community and with it gone new people are having a very hard time finding groups that can win.
This system hurt no one since it could only be done in private queues, not like pug groups have a chance of getting to wave 9 and there is a leaver penalty on them. This game has been going down hill a long time, just one more reason not to bother with it.
Maybe you as someone who doesn't run NWS very often have the deeply flawed understanding of what players actually do with the mission. The way you learn to beat no win is by farming it to wave 9 and warping, its good practice and you don't have to wait 30 minutes to run it again. This is very common practice among the no win scenario community and with it gone new people are having a very hard time finding groups that can win.
This system hurt no one since it could only be done in private queues, not like pug groups have a chance of getting to wave 9 and there is a leaver penalty on them. This game has been going down hill a long time, just one more reason not to bother with it.
I've only ever pugged it. I've gotten to wave 9. Ergo, your entire argument is invalid. Sorry, but it's true.
I've only ever pugged it. I've gotten to wave 9. Ergo, your entire argument is invalid. Sorry, but it's true.
So you got lucky, or were carried by one of our groups TRIBBLE around, and got to wave 9. How does that effect my argument in the slightest, farming or warping out after wave 9 still gives a leaver penalty in the public queues and therefor never happens.
So you got lucky, or were carried by one of our groups TRIBBLE around, and got to wave 9. How does that effect my argument in the slightest, farming or warping out after wave 9 still gives a leaver penalty in the public queues and therefor never happens.
Got there 3 times. Twice, everyone warped out.
D'you get it now?
And apparently your "group" never did it in the queues, so it must have been random dicking me out of fleet marks.
You exploited it, they've stopped that, grow up and deal with it.
And apparently your "group" never did it in the queues, so it must have been random dicking me out of fleet marks.
You exploited it, they've stopped that, grow up and deal with it.
Starting to think your full of BS. If you warp in a public queue for NWS you get a leaver penalty, there is no reason to warp. There was nothing wrong with farming in private queues and it did not happen in public queues. You want to call it an exploit go ahead, I don't really care if it was, it was good for the game and good for the players, they have ruined it and I will continue to tell them when they **** up.
Oh noes! ONE game mechanics that can't be exploited anymore! The heavens are falling!
Good riddance..
Harder versions for more marks? Sure, why not. More marks in general for content that has a horrible mark/time ratio? Absolutely!
Exploits that make up for poor rewards or non challenging / not existing content? No thanks. Seriously, everyone complaining should take a long hard look at why exactly he's complaining.
Starting to think your full of BS. If you warp in a public queue for NWS you get a leaver penalty, there is no reason to warp. There was nothing wrong with farming in private queues and it did not happen in public queues. You want to call it an exploit go ahead, I don't really care if it was, it was good for the game and good for the players, they have ruined it and I will continue to tell them when they **** up.
It's obvious that for Cryptic, farming in private queues was bad, too. It probably lets people earn more marks and fleet credits then they intended.
Cryptic wants to have people trying to achieve objectives in the game at a certain pace so that people don't say after two weeks "I've done and achieved everything, where is my content, it's so boring, I'll leave, and don't buy anymore Zen or sell anymore DIlithium for other players".
That might seem bad for you, and it is kinda annoying, I give you that - but if they didn't, this game might simply fail because people are leaving after they've achieved their achievements and are geared out and the game dwindles down. And that would mean no STO anymore for you either.
It's strange that we humans must be manipulated in such a manner to play a game and have it survive, but apparently, that's the way it works.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Starting to think your full of BS. If you warp in a public queue for NWS you get a leaver penalty, there is no reason to warp. There was nothing wrong with farming in private queues and it did not happen in public queues. You want to call it an exploit go ahead, I don't really care if it was, it was good for the game and good for the players, they have ruined it and I will continue to tell them when they **** up.
You do now, that's the point of this thread: they put the leaver penalty on for warping. It wasn't there before, and that includes public queues.
As I said before, I had no problem doing out of the public queues. But people didn't keep it out of the queues, because they were being nobs.
You do now, that's the point of this thread: they put the leaver penalty on for warping. It wasn't there before, and that includes public queues.
As I said before, I had no problem doing out of the public queues. But people didn't keep it out of the queues, because they were being nobs.
Sorry but your simply wrong. Since the early days there has been a leaver penalty on no win scenario in the public queues, if you warp out you would get whatever marks you earned but you'd also get the 1 hour no PvE queue penalty, same as if you left an Elite STF.
Sorry but your simply wrong. Since the early days there has been a leaver penalty on no win scenario in the public queues, if you warp out you would get whatever marks you earned but you'd also get the 1 hour no PvE queue penalty, same as if you left an Elite STF.
Well, what either you or I say can't be substantiated by either one of us, but as far as I'm concerned you're simply wrong.
Like I said, that's the whole point of this thread.
Comments
It clearly is an exploit if you do not have a timer for leaving early, as Cryptic has indicated they have wanted to slow the progression down. But hey that's too late for those fleets that have been exploiting it to help their fleet to T5. It's just meant overall with these changes that smaller fleets and larger fleets are now going to suffer the price of the inevitable grind, wait, grind, wait. You can also thank the person or persons whomever they may be for reporting this to PWE after how many months or so?
Just to reiterate as plainly as possible: If the freighter dies you still get the same marks as before.
My character Tsin'xing
In what way is this a good thing for Cryptic?
You are effectively neutering the NWS farming that is taking place now. With these changes, players who have 3 or more toons who can do NWS farming, will just group together and farm with each other. Those who have only one toon will be able to do one farm run with a large +20 minute break in between each. It's unlikely players are going to do many runs together if they have that large of a break in play, unless they have multiple toons to swap to each time they get a cooldown.
So it is pretty much undeniable that with this change, a lot fewer people are going to be doing NWS, and a lot fewer people are going to be doing NWS anywhere near as much as they were. This can in no way be a good thing for Cryptic.
And, as uraziel, numbers, and porch have all pointed out, this change will disproportionately hurt the players who are newer to NWS.
As Numbers said, "keep in mind that one way allot of new people learn, and get there first win, is by joining a farming group who will farm till wave 9 for a bunch of runs and then go for wave 10. That practice from farming is how new people learned and got good enough to beat 10, now they are just **** out of luck.
Professional groups are going to be less willing to allow an amateur to join when they know they have to go for wave 10 on the first try with them. All cryptic has done is hurt the people still trying to beat no win scenaro, and helped absolutely noone..."
Again, in what way is this a good thing for Cryptic?
This change will bring about the following with respect to NWS:
Fewer players (x) playing less (y) in a given amount of time: check.
Fewer players (x1) gaining experience and practice doing NWS thereby expanding the pool of possible players (y1): check. check.
Hmm, no, I just don't see how this is a good thing, for Cryptic or their playerbase.
Obviously. But with a change like this, there will be fewer players, who will also be playing NWS less, for the above reasons, which will not be a good change either for Cryptic, or their playerbase. If this is bad for Cryptic, and bad for their playerbase, please defend why this change with respect to NWS should go through.
My character Tsin'xing
Maybe you as someone who doesn't run NWS very often have the deeply flawed understanding of what players actually do with the mission. The way you learn to beat no win is by farming it to wave 9 and warping, its good practice and you don't have to wait 30 minutes to run it again. This is very common practice among the no win scenario community and with it gone new people are having a very hard time finding groups that can win.
This system hurt no one since it could only be done in private queues, not like pug groups have a chance of getting to wave 9 and there is a leaver penalty on them. This game has been going down hill a long time, just one more reason not to bother with it.
I've only ever pugged it. I've gotten to wave 9. Ergo, your entire argument is invalid. Sorry, but it's true.
So you got lucky, or were carried by one of our groups TRIBBLE around, and got to wave 9. How does that effect my argument in the slightest, farming or warping out after wave 9 still gives a leaver penalty in the public queues and therefor never happens.
Got there 3 times. Twice, everyone warped out.
D'you get it now?
And apparently your "group" never did it in the queues, so it must have been random dicking me out of fleet marks.
You exploited it, they've stopped that, grow up and deal with it.
Starting to think your full of BS. If you warp in a public queue for NWS you get a leaver penalty, there is no reason to warp. There was nothing wrong with farming in private queues and it did not happen in public queues. You want to call it an exploit go ahead, I don't really care if it was, it was good for the game and good for the players, they have ruined it and I will continue to tell them when they **** up.
Good riddance..
Harder versions for more marks? Sure, why not. More marks in general for content that has a horrible mark/time ratio? Absolutely!
Exploits that make up for poor rewards or non challenging / not existing content? No thanks. Seriously, everyone complaining should take a long hard look at why exactly he's complaining.
For once, Crpytic has done something right.
It's obvious that for Cryptic, farming in private queues was bad, too. It probably lets people earn more marks and fleet credits then they intended.
Cryptic wants to have people trying to achieve objectives in the game at a certain pace so that people don't say after two weeks "I've done and achieved everything, where is my content, it's so boring, I'll leave, and don't buy anymore Zen or sell anymore DIlithium for other players".
That might seem bad for you, and it is kinda annoying, I give you that - but if they didn't, this game might simply fail because people are leaving after they've achieved their achievements and are geared out and the game dwindles down. And that would mean no STO anymore for you either.
It's strange that we humans must be manipulated in such a manner to play a game and have it survive, but apparently, that's the way it works.
You do now, that's the point of this thread: they put the leaver penalty on for warping. It wasn't there before, and that includes public queues.
As I said before, I had no problem doing out of the public queues. But people didn't keep it out of the queues, because they were being nobs.
Fair enough. You weren't a nob. Not really my point, I don't think. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
Sorry but your simply wrong. Since the early days there has been a leaver penalty on no win scenario in the public queues, if you warp out you would get whatever marks you earned but you'd also get the 1 hour no PvE queue penalty, same as if you left an Elite STF.
Well, what either you or I say can't be substantiated by either one of us, but as far as I'm concerned you're simply wrong.
Like I said, that's the whole point of this thread.
Anyway. Take it easy mush.
The point of the thread was that they made it so you don't get the mark payout till you win or loose, had nothing to do with a leaver penalty.
So, you're saying you can still warp out of a public fleet alert and not get a ban?
Interesting.
Anyway, payment method has changed. Either live with it or don't play those matches anymore.
Done.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy