test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Where did my First Person Camera Mode go?

2

Comments

  • alaerickalaerick Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Still no developer response? How sad. :(
    A beautiful death awaits you...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -Foundry-
    Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
    Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
  • smoovioussmoovious Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    For some reason, nobody wants to talk about this... it is like it is some big secret going on that they're trying to hide.

    Will it be so bad for someone to actually come out and be straight about why we're all being forced into shoulder-cam now? Why it was so necessary to remove the option to enable/disable it instead of fixing it so it would save/load with all the other options?

    WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE HIDING!!!

    Maybe we should appoint a special prosecutor... .. .

    -- Smoov

    edit: I spent a while playing ground a couple days ago, for the sole reason that I wanted to participate with some of my fleet members that I don't spend much time with.

    I was not an asset to the group. I found the side-view so distracting, that I was fighting the game more than I was fighting the borg. Not having as much control as I used to about what I was actually firing at? Well, lets just say that it is a good thing we didn't have to worry about friendly-fire incidents.

    Behind the head view lets me sneak around obstructions on both sides, and be able to line up properly on something, as well as hand-to-hand combat, it is a big plus. Sure I could scroll WAY out to where shoulder-cam doesn't start moving to the side, but that's just as bad as having shoulder-cam in the first place. I want to stay up close behind/above the head, where I can go into first-person view with a quick flick of the mouse-wheel, and back out again.

    Why be like those other games, who's only purpose to having the shoulder-cam or side-view is so they could show off how realistic the pants you're wearing were made? When you're in the middle of a fight? WHO FRIGGIN CARES WHAT YOUR AVATAR LOOKS LIKE! You should be looking at your target... and while YOU may be looking at your target, your avatar isn't cuz of that rock.

    -- Smoov
  • jetwtfjetwtf Member Posts: 1,207
    edited June 2013
    Theres not much to show off up close with the backside of NPC's. theres more polygons on 1 single ankle than there is on the whole butt of a character. If thats what they want to show off and are proud of that model I could send them a better one with about the same number of poly but have a smoother butt.
    Join Date: Nobody cares.
    "I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
  • smoovioussmoovious Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    jetwtf wrote: »
    Theres not much to show off up close with the backside of NPC's. theres more polygons on 1 single ankle than there is on the whole butt of a character. If thats what they want to show off and are proud of that model I could send them a better one with about the same number of poly but have a smoother butt.
    Well... I'm sure not one who is going to discourage anybody making smoother butts, so I'm all for it! :D

    -- Smoov
  • alaerickalaerick Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I'd really like to know their reasoning for this change. It's just aweful. I can't say it any other way it broke the game for me. I went from being able to fly my ship the way I wanted (albeit having to change a setting every time I zoned) to not at all. I do not for any reason no matter how pretty the ship design want to look at my ship when I am flying it. I want to be inside the ship. I'd be much much happier if everyone had to fly from their bridge and use consoles to target things like in the show / movies. Being forced in to 3rd person is just as goofy as it gets. Who does this? Do jet fighter pilots get to fly with a chase cam? No. Did any sailors get to float behind their boats to see which way to turn? No. Part of the whole concept of controlling a ship and being a captain is making strategic decisions from the limited point of view of the bridge. This makes it feel totally gonzo and arcade like.. Absolutely NOT what I want to play without inserting a coin and getting a vibrating seat.
    A beautiful death awaits you...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -Foundry-
    Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
    Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
  • jetwtfjetwtf Member Posts: 1,207
    edited June 2013
    @alberick, well the thread here is about ground setups but it defiinatly applies to space as well since that option was removed alongside. The removal of this feature is bull****, I have money to spend on this game but now it will be spent someplace else unless the setup is reverted to what it was.
    Join Date: Nobody cares.
    "I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
  • alaerickalaerick Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    jetwtf wrote: »
    @alberick, well the thread here is about ground setups but it defiinatly applies to space as well since that option was removed alongside. The removal of this feature is bull****, I have money to spend on this game but now it will be spent someplace else unless the setup is reverted to what it was.

    It might be for you but I created the thread and it's about all modes specifically space for me :P
    A beautiful death awaits you...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -Foundry-
    Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
    Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
  • alaerickalaerick Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Still no reply or mention in test/patch notes? :(
    A beautiful death awaits you...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -Foundry-
    Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
    Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
  • lord7tareqlord7tareq Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Utterly ridiculous that they removed the first person view option completely :mad:
    There should be a keybind just like aim or shooter mode that toggles between first person and 3rd person view.
  • flyingtargflyingtarg Member Posts: 105 Cryptic Developer
    edited June 2013
    There is some history to this option that will hopefully make the reasons for its removal more clear.

    This option was originally added for Champions Online when, during the development of the On Alert update, the Star Trek Online shoulder camera behavior was accidentally added to Champions. While our initial action was to remove the shoulder camera from Champions, some players expressed that they liked it. For Champions Online, making the shoulder camera an option ended up being trivial, so we added it for that game.

    Due to the nature of our options code, this option also unintentionally made it to the options screen of Star Trek Online back in Season 6.

    The problem is that the shoulder camera is a built-in part of the Star Trek Online camera code. While a player could temporarily turn the shoulder camera off, the camera code would merely turn the shoulder camera back on whenever it detected that the zoom level was close enough that it needed to enable the shoulder camera, effectively making the player set option entirely useless. This is a hard-coded part of Star Trek Online's camera system, and it cannot be disabled without a rework of the camera code.

    Typically speaking, we don't remove functional options from the game. This was an option that was never intended for Star Trek Online, and did not work in Star Trek Online's camera code. For that reason, it was removed.
    Daniel "FlyingTarg" Razza
    Star Trek Online Lead Programmer
  • smoovioussmoovious Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    flyingtarg wrote: »
    The problem is that the shoulder camera is a built-in part of the Star Trek Online camera code. While a player could temporarily turn the shoulder camera off, the camera code would merely turn the shoulder camera back on whenever it detected that the zoom level was close enough that it needed to enable the shoulder camera, effectively making the player set option entirely useless. This is a hard-coded part of Star Trek Online's camera system, and it cannot be disabled without a rework of the camera code.

    Typically speaking, we don't remove functional options from the game. This was an option that was never intended for Star Trek Online, and did not work in Star Trek Online's camera code. For that reason, it was removed.
    Except, that, in practice, that is not what happened. With the option set to disable shoulder-cam, the cameras DID NOT move to the side when we scrolled in closer, and when we scrolled in all the way, behind/above the head, one more scroll-in with the wheel, put us in first-person view.

    Whatever the reasons for that having found its way into STO in the first place, the behavior worked BEAUTIFULLY as it stood.

    The only problem was the option setting not saving itself.

    You are exaggerating the 'problem' with keeping that view in. Since we could disable it, even temporarily, it worked without a 'rework of the camera code', and since you are the coders to begin with? "hard-coded" is meaningless.

    Putting a workaround that would go through the routine to reset the shoulder-cam to off, the same routine that was used when we changed the option manually, to disable the shoulder-cam, isn't as problematic as you make it out to be.

    You have plenty of people who play STO and read these forums that have some experience with dealing with coding issues, and your reasoning for removing the non-shoulder-cam/first-person view that we have enjoyed and have come to depend on, adding to our enjoyment of being in STO in the first place, falls flat.

    It _was_ a functional option, albeit one that had an option setting that wasn't persistent, which isn't a big issue to resolve and make it persistent.

    And, you removed the functional option, rather than make the setting persistent.

    The functionality itself, worked perfectly. Removing it, and leaving us with what we have left, makes me loathe ground combat.

    Sorry, but your excuses do not make any logical sense, and from my past coding experience, it doesn't make sense there either.

    Please go back to your coders, and instruct them to re-insert the code, and address the non-saving option setting, properly.

    -- Smoov
  • zerobangzerobang Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    there were 2 things wrong with the first person view

    #1 it worked while you were in space as the ship, which was NOT a bad thing, you could do beautiful Screenshots that way without YOUR Ship always hanging in the center that way.
    It was not useful for gameplay itself though.

    #2 the option itself did not STICK.
    restart the client, you are back in shoulder view, or go back into the menu after you are in first person view and you could not go back to third person view without restarting the client.

    that seems to me NOT like a camera code issue, but like a UI code issue (it was not intended for STO so it was not set up properly), we had options that didn't STICK before (like the OnMouseOver option that is regularly broken with new branch updates).



    my vote: +1 bring back first person view!
    but next time a bit more functional please.

    ...and it would be uber epic to see the gun you are using on the screen while in FPS view (the character AND weapon did turn invisible while in FPS view).


    Also i alway am zoomed out enough for the character to be centered in the screen, it was NICE to be able to zoom in more without the character getting pushed to the left of the screen.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • starfleetownsallstarfleetownsall Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    alaerick wrote: »
    Exactly my reaction. Flying a ship from behind it is like wtf.. where's my cockpit view? I want to FLY the ship not be some weird thing behind it. If I wanted 3rd person flying mode I'd play EVE-O instead.[/QUOTE
    the game engine itself cant support a cockpit view and it wouldnt work because things would happen in a ship would take a long time to program and dan stahl said that remodelling ships is hard will not likely do it again.
    Task Force Spectre, Legion of Spectre, and House of Spectre is recruiting!
    I watch the only good STO podcast STOked Radio
    Want to learn more about any of the above? Let me know!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • zerobangzerobang Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    alaerick wrote: »
    Exactly my reaction. Flying a ship from behind it is like wtf.. where's my cockpit view? I want to FLY the ship not be some weird thing behind it. If I wanted 3rd person flying mode I'd play EVE-O instead.[/QUOTE
    the game engine itself cant support a cockpit view and it wouldnt work because things would happen in a ship would take a long time to program and dan stahl said that remodelling ships is hard will not likely do it again.

    you are a mile off topic for this thread, we are talking about a first person view that was IN THE GAME already and got removed.

    Nobody is talking about Bridge Commander / Bridge View stuff...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jetwtfjetwtf Member Posts: 1,207
    edited June 2013
    flyingtarg wrote: »
    There is some history to this option that will hopefully make the reasons for its removal more clear.

    This option was originally added for Champions Online when, during the development of the On Alert update, the Star Trek Online shoulder camera behavior was accidentally added to Champions. While our initial action was to remove the shoulder camera from Champions, some players expressed that they liked it. For Champions Online, making the shoulder camera an option ended up being trivial, so we added it for that game.

    Due to the nature of our options code, this option also unintentionally made it to the options screen of Star Trek Online back in Season 6.

    The problem is that the shoulder camera is a built-in part of the Star Trek Online camera code. While a player could temporarily turn the shoulder camera off, the camera code would merely turn the shoulder camera back on whenever it detected that the zoom level was close enough that it needed to enable the shoulder camera, effectively making the player set option entirely useless. This is a hard-coded part of Star Trek Online's camera system, and it cannot be disabled without a rework of the camera code.

    Typically speaking, we don't remove functional options from the game. This was an option that was never intended for Star Trek Online, and did not work in Star Trek Online's camera code. For that reason, it was removed.


    Thank you for a response to this isssue. Now what Smoovius stated was correct. The option did not revert until you loaded a new area not the way you describe by zooming in too close. Zooming in too close and the characters head would fill the screen and one wheel click more and you were in first person mode.

    Now what you state about not removing features Is great but you did remove a feature and one that many players prefer and us on the forums is but a small portion of those considering most just dont complain and many dont know about the forums.

    It may not have been intended but it was there! intended or not it was a working feature that was a good feature. It did not give us extra dilithium or storage. All it did was give us an option to use another point of view! More options for things like that are what you developers should be working on adding anyway and I am sure you are but an accidental added feature should have been considered good fortune for Cryptic since they don't have to do the whole code to make it happen. Sometimes an accident is a good thing and this was a good thing! If you put it back the way it was but change the option to Temporarily disable over the shoulder then that would be hundreds of times better than the lack of any option we have now.

    Furthermore IF the option was entirely useless as you say you would have recieved many more bug reports on it aside from the reverting everytime you change zones and most likely have removed it then just to shut the players up about it. Doing it now was plain and simply a bad choice to make because many were used to it bugs and all.

    *edit,
    Hard coded? Does Cryptic not have the source code to STO? Hard coded is like the number of animations that can be used on player characetrs in Skyrim but animations can be modified through the creation kit but the number cannot be changed because our version of the CK had the ability stripped out. Bethesda can change it in a couple minutes at most either at the code level or through their version of the CK. We may be players but we are not stupid and many have experiance in coding or game design as well. Like i can fix many many errors on the 3d models you people have like the bad clipping on the romulan skirt when running. That one was an amature mistake to tell the truth.
    Join Date: Nobody cares.
    "I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
  • smoovioussmoovious Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Yeah, I was a bit flabbergasted at the 'hard-coded' card being played...

    That card works for a content creator who has to work within the limits of the environment he doesn't have access to.

    Not to the people who code that environment themselves.

    -- Smoov
  • alaerickalaerick Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    flyingtarg wrote: »
    There is some history to this option that will hopefully make the reasons for its removal more clear.

    This option was originally added for Champions Online when, during the development of the On Alert update, the Star Trek Online shoulder camera behavior was accidentally added to Champions. While our initial action was to remove the shoulder camera from Champions, some players expressed that they liked it. For Champions Online, making the shoulder camera an option ended up being trivial, so we added it for that game.

    Due to the nature of our options code, this option also unintentionally made it to the options screen of Star Trek Online back in Season 6.

    The problem is that the shoulder camera is a built-in part of the Star Trek Online camera code. While a player could temporarily turn the shoulder camera off, the camera code would merely turn the shoulder camera back on whenever it detected that the zoom level was close enough that it needed to enable the shoulder camera, effectively making the player set option entirely useless. This is a hard-coded part of Star Trek Online's camera system, and it cannot be disabled without a rework of the camera code.

    Typically speaking, we don't remove functional options from the game. This was an option that was never intended for Star Trek Online, and did not work in Star Trek Online's camera code. For that reason, it was removed.

    Unacceptable reason. As it stands I have logged maybe half a dozen hours total to the game since it was vanished from my settings. I simply cannot get in to playing it anymore in it's current form. Eg, You broke it.
    alaerick wrote: »
    Exactly my reaction. Flying a ship from behind it is like wtf.. where's my cockpit view? I want to FLY the ship not be some weird thing behind it. If I wanted 3rd person flying mode I'd play EVE-O instead.
    the game engine itself cant support a cockpit view and it wouldnt work because things would happen in a ship would take a long time to program and dan stahl said that remodelling ships is hard will not likely do it again.
    I created this thread do not tell me what it is about. I would love a bridge view but this is about the first person mode (NO VISIBLE SHIP) option that vanished. Furthermore the forcing of over the shoulder cam mode on everyone else who likes ground combat. I always played both areas in first person mode unless I needed to melee attack something in which case I simply scrolled backward with my mouse wheel to proceed bashing it to pieces then scrolled back in when I was done and ready to run and gun again.
    A beautiful death awaits you...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -Foundry-
    Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
    Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
  • lancemeszaroslancemeszaros Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    flyingtarg wrote: »
    There is some history to this option that will hopefully make the reasons for its removal more clear.

    This option was originally added for Champions Online when, during the development of the On Alert update, the Star Trek Online shoulder camera behavior was accidentally added to Champions. While our initial action was to remove the shoulder camera from Champions, some players expressed that they liked it. For Champions Online, making the shoulder camera an option ended up being trivial, so we added it for that game.

    Due to the nature of our options code, this option also unintentionally made it to the options screen of Star Trek Online back in Season 6.

    The problem is that the shoulder camera is a built-in part of the Star Trek Online camera code. While a player could temporarily turn the shoulder camera off, the camera code would merely turn the shoulder camera back on whenever it detected that the zoom level was close enough that it needed to enable the shoulder camera, effectively making the player set option entirely useless. This is a hard-coded part of Star Trek Online's camera system, and it cannot be disabled without a rework of the camera code.

    Typically speaking, we don't remove functional options from the game. This was an option that was never intended for Star Trek Online, and did not work in Star Trek Online's camera code. For that reason, it was removed.

    So what you're saying is this:

    Champions Online:
    - Camera option is accidentally added.
    - Players say they like it.
    - It's kept.

    Star Trek Onine:
    - Camera option is accidentally added.
    - Players say they like it.
    - It's removed.
  • jetwtfjetwtf Member Posts: 1,207
    edited June 2013
    So what you're saying is this:

    Champions Online:
    - Camera option is accidentally added.
    - Players say they like it.
    - It's kept.

    Star Trek Onine:
    - Camera option is accidentally added.
    - Players say they like it.
    - It's removed.

    That looks about right and kinda insulting if you ask me.
    Join Date: Nobody cares.
    "I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
  • mcy1115mcy1115 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    smoovious wrote: »
    Except, that, in practice, that is not what happened. With the option set to disable shoulder-cam, the cameras DID NOT move to the side when we scrolled in closer, and when we scrolled in all the way, behind/above the head, one more scroll-in with the wheel, put us in first-person view.

    Whatever the reasons for that having found its way into STO in the first place, the behavior worked BEAUTIFULLY as it stood.

    The only problem was the option setting not saving itself.

    You are exaggerating the 'problem' with keeping that view in. Since we could disable it, even temporarily, it worked without a 'rework of the camera code', and since you are the coders to begin with? "hard-coded" is meaningless.

    Putting a workaround that would go through the routine to reset the shoulder-cam to off, the same routine that was used when we changed the option manually, to disable the shoulder-cam, isn't as problematic as you make it out to be.

    You have plenty of people who play STO and read these forums that have some experience with dealing with coding issues, and your reasoning for removing the non-shoulder-cam/first-person view that we have enjoyed and have come to depend on, adding to our enjoyment of being in STO in the first place, falls flat.

    It _was_ a functional option, albeit one that had an option setting that wasn't persistent, which isn't a big issue to resolve and make it persistent.

    And, you removed the functional option, rather than make the setting persistent.

    The functionality itself, worked perfectly. Removing it, and leaving us with what we have left, makes me loathe ground combat.

    Sorry, but your excuses do not make any logical sense, and from my past coding experience, it doesn't make sense there either.

    Please go back to your coders, and instruct them to re-insert the code, and address the non-saving option setting, properly.

    -- Smoov

    Ok so I am new to STO. That being said great game! However I am also an avid FPS player and Flight sim enthusiast, on top of that I am a programmer and completely agree with Smoov, When a customer likes a feature that doesnt work perfectly I dont come up with a "Oh I'm sorry it would be to much work for my team to make that work properly" mentality. I would not be employed long if i did.

    Fix it, Test it, Release it!

    --Mike
  • jetwtfjetwtf Member Posts: 1,207
    edited June 2013
    I am coming to the conclusion that someone in upper managment making decisions is not very good at the job. It does not look like they actualy look into the pro's and con's of each decision but just chooses one without considering how the players will react. 100 mail limit, deleting mail with no warning, removing a good feature, Maintanence during prime time, many many examples of decisions that were the wrong decision or poorly implememnted such as no warning so players can remove attachments from mail or save important mail in other forms to taking away the camera choices altogether.

    Mismanagment hurts online games, It makes the game bad for players. bad for players makes fewer players. fewer players is less income for the game company. Damage control over and over gets people fired.
    Join Date: Nobody cares.
    "I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
  • alaerickalaerick Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The real question now since they have acknowledged this thread is, will they fix it? Or did I waste all that money on this game?
    A beautiful death awaits you...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -Foundry-
    Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
    Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
  • smoovioussmoovious Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'll take the silence as a 'no'...

    -- Smoov
  • alaerickalaerick Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    smoovious wrote: »
    I'll take the silence as a 'no'...

    -- Smoov

    The silence is deafening..
    A beautiful death awaits you...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -Foundry-
    Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
    Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
  • jetwtfjetwtf Member Posts: 1,207
    edited July 2013
    Shhh someone at cryptic is actualy thinking about a decision, dont disturb them!!!

    Oh wait thats probably not it.
    Join Date: Nobody cares.
    "I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
  • aexraelaexrael Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The shoulder camera is annoying, so hopefully Cryptic sees the value in bringing back a fully functioning first person camera view.
  • alaerickalaerick Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    aexrael wrote: »
    The shoulder camera is annoying, so hopefully Cryptic sees the value in bringing back a fully functioning first person camera view.

    I agree! They really need to fix this problem in the right way and just give us the FPS mode back. There was no reason to get rid of it. I never saw anyone complaining about it's existence before. Only asking it to be fixed.
    A beautiful death awaits you...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -Foundry-
    Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
    Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
  • thafrznthafrzn Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    couple moments ago installed TSO after a year break, looking forward to playing ground, and now i found about this lol, GG
  • alaerickalaerick Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Really wish they never broke STO :(

    I just returned to the game after leaving due to this being broken.. I was really, I do mean really hoping you had fixed it by now. By fixed it I mean put First Person mode back in the game.. 3rd person is so damn disorienting.. :(
    A beautiful death awaits you...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -Foundry-
    Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
    Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
  • kazapskykazapsky Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    How many times is this going to be necro'ed?
    Arc is garbage. End of discussion.
This discussion has been closed.