However, there's also the sort of regulation that ends up with hot apple pies being marked 'caution, hot' and bags of peanuts with warnings that say 'may contain nuts'.
Laws and regulations should be less about shielding people from the consequences of their actions and more about preventing abuses of power.
I think regulation like this is more like speed limits and traffic signs, or regulate lotteries.
I think a big problem with the internet is that it's all.. Well, software, so to speak. There is nothing physical about. If you buy something in a physical shop, you have your goods in your carts, you put them physically there. You see the cost at the counter, you physically hand over the money (or at least your credit card).
In the web, it's all just a few clicks. It feels different.
You don't know if the next click will lead you to a confirmation page with all the details of billing address, payment information and the goods you wanted, or already finalizes the purchase. That's why there are no laws to require the final step in an online transaction to be clearly labelled as such.
Our human brains didn't evolve for an enviroment where everything happens with a few clicks, they don't calculate odds of winning in lotteries correctly. The human brain is exploitable, and while you might want everyone to be capable of seeing through all the tricks and guises, they factually do not, and if you don't believe, me think about how much money Cryptic probably already made with Lockbox ships. And if we want to minimize the impact, we need some laws to regulate it.
However, I still don't know why you might need a warning that peanuts might contain nuts.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
M$ should have refused to pay and played the "OK, you WIN, we will stop selling all our products here and cut off all access to them, including updates, and indeed our EU updated will remove the products from the offending computers instead".
2 weeks of trying to make a hobby OS do anything for the average user and the EU would have caved. I am an IT professional and developer and linux still makes me pull my hair out at times just to do the most simple tasks -- I can't imagine what a nontechnical user would be going through lol. I remember once it made me recompile the OS because I had added a hard disk... try that one on at home.
So naive lol
Would love to see microsoft do this just to prove to you what would happen
Something like "Free access, premium competition."
If you don't pay to compete, it's free. If competition is why you're here then, sure, yeah.
To be honest, you can compete even without spending any "real" currency, and thats intentional, why else would they allow trade of zen/dilithium
Just takes longer to obtain your items
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
Lockbox regulation, if they took that up, would be a separate issue. I could see where Cryptic might be forced to publish the odds but I would think they wouldn't fall under gambling rules because every box arguably has a "prize" of some value.
Basically if you summarize just about every gambling law it basically boils down to there are limits on the odds but its not clearly stated. Although because you can get these lockbox items without paying a dime in my experience with these type of things they really aren't required to have a gambling license.
To sum it up the average powerball in a given state usually averages 830 to 840 billion to one odds that you will win. I would wager that its near the ceiling of the laws from state to state. Although if you look at STO's lockboxes with own personal numbers it ranges for me 100-300 lockboxes before I win the crutch/lockbox ship. So you can do the math on that and see Cryptic's STO lockboxes are no where near the ceiling as well as no where above that ceiling that is stipulated in such laws. So therefore there is no issue on the matter. LOL
1, we arnt in EU and neither is Cryptic...
2, all that would change is the wording they use to describe their games...so expect games in EU to have fine print in their F2p titles.
If you are operating in the EU which Crpytic/PWE are as we can play their games then you are subject to the laws of the EU.
Nope. Everything in the C-Store can be unlocked by grinding dil and selling it to other players for their zen.
"the CPC and EC want developers to cut out any direct calls for purchasing in-game items (such as "Buy now!" or "Upgrade now!") in any title likely to appeal to children."
It doesn't matter if you can grind the zen and dil. They might have to remove the "buy more slots" from the interface.
"During the meetings the Commission will stress that games advertised as free should not mislead consumers about the potential costs involved, and that games should not directly encourage children to purchase items in a game, or to beg an adult to buy items for them"
"The use of the word 'free' (or similar unequivocal terms) as such, and without any appropriate qualifications, should only be allowed for games which are indeed free in their entirety, or in other words which contain no possibility of making in-app purchases, not even on an optional basis,"
"Beyond that, the CPC and EC want developers to cut out any direct calls for purchasing in-game items (such as "Buy now!" or "Upgrade now!") in any title likely to appeal to children. On top of that, in-app purchases should not be made without the consumer's explicit consent, and all apps and app listings should prominently feature an e-mail address to which customers can direct questions before they decide to play or even download a title."
How will the potential new consumer protection laws effect STO? Will they just remove the word "free" from advertising? Will they have to remove all the in game "buy this" links? Will they become more up front about the costs involved, such as disclosing lockbox odds? Or will PW just remove the game from all the 28 member states?
What ever happens, Cryptic and PW should take this very seriously because this sets a precedent for more countries to crackdown on microtransactions.
Based on what you have quoted - they'll have to change the game or lose the market.
Another thing, you can't accidentally purchase Zen.
Game access does not require a credit card, the only place you can use a credit card is while buying Zen or a sub, and you have to deliberately add the credit card information for every purchase.
I don't see how this affects any Cryptic game. It is truly "free-to-play" and all purchases are at least theoretically optional.
Lockbox regulation, if they took that up, would be a separate issue. I could see where Cryptic might be forced to publish the odds but I would think they wouldn't fall under gambling rules because every box arguably has a "prize" of some value.
- Oh, what about those "game cards" that are distributed in stores or the payment with mobile phone, where minors have unlimited access to whithout knowledgement of the parents. BTW, this is only the first step towards companies like yours.
- Dude, the lottery where even a minimum of return, even if it's 1 or 2 Euro, is promised, is been considered as gambling and is under any circumstance forbidden for minors. Even offering, tempting those minors with it, is forbidden.
It's always been obvious that 'free to play' doesn't mean 'you can't pay for anything'. I mean, when a restaurant advertises a free sandwich, but would still charge for you to add bacon to it, it doesn't mean they can't say the word 'free'.
The commission seems to be treating the term 'free' like it should denote a service where parents can let their kids go wild on their phone without any chance of buying something. But I very much doubt that's how the term is used in most cases, or how most consumers interpret it with regards to games.
Is the EU trying to protect people from the disappointment of finding out some games actually don't give you everything for free, even if they give you some of it? Or do they really think parents should feel protected letting their kids muck around in whatever game they see the word 'free' with, without having to restrict the kid's ability to purchase things? Do they think 'Buy Now' is irresistable to kids under 18, or that it is somehow targeted at them specifically?
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
- Oh, what about those "game cards" that are distributed in stores or the payment with mobile phone, where minors have unlimited access to whithout knowledgement of the parents. BTW, this is only the first step towards companies like yours.
- Dude, the lottery where even a minimum of return, even if it's 1 or 2 Euro, is promised, is been considered as gambling and is under any circumstance forbidden for minors. Even offering, tempting those minors with it, is forbidden.
If a kid can buy a card at a store with cash, and then use said card on their parent's phone, they've already spent the money the first time. If the parents really want to control their kid's impulsive purchasing habits, they'd have to control every chance they have to go to a store. Having a digital incentive to buy something is nothing new. But as long as the kid is allowed to make purchases at a store, and isn't using their parents' money without their knowledge, there's nothing to regulate here.
Also, things like trading cards have always had varying degrees of value within. Lockboxes do not give cash returns, nor do they ever reward nothing. You're essentially getting a group of digital 'trading cards' that may or may not be exactly the ones you want. Unless the EU is making trading cards illegal, I don't see how they can honestly do anything to Lockboxes.
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
Too many arm chair lawyers in here full of ideas but no knowledge of the european law. One of pw's primary offices is in amsterdam. I'm sure they have a team of lawyers scoping through the laws and determining what changes they might need to make, if any.
If a kid can buy a card at a store with cash, and then use said card on their parent's phone, they've already spent the money the first time. If the parents really want to control their kid's impulsive purchasing habits, they'd have to control every chance they have to go to a store. Having a digital incentive to buy something is nothing new. But as long as the kid is allowed to make purchases at a store, and isn't using their parents' money without their knowledge, there's nothing to regulate here.
Also, things like trading cards have always had varying degrees of value within. Lockboxes do not give cash returns, nor do they ever reward nothing. You're essentially getting a group of digital 'trading cards' that may or may not be exactly the ones you want. Unless the EU is making trading cards illegal, I don't see how they can honestly do anything to Lockboxes.
Do you know what your kid is doing with his/hers allowance, presuming you have a kid ? You would be suprised how many parents drop from the sky if they caught their kid smoking and it tells them that he/she is already smoking for 2 years and bought those cigs with the allowance they get.
Lockbox regulation, if they took that up, would be a separate issue. I could see where Cryptic might be forced to publish the odds but I would think they wouldn't fall under gambling rules because every box arguably has a "prize" of some value.
by defintion a slot machine offers a "prize" as well. like trying to tell an apple from an orange apart between the lock box and gambling machine and miss the liberty bell that is the gambling laws around kids. but even being forced to publish the odds is a step in the right direction even though some place it around 0.5% for the mega prize.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
What ever happens they will have to comply with the new EU law regardless, just because a company is based in a foreign country doe not! make it exempt from local trade or consumer laws.
If this was the case NO! products would be covered with warranties etc.
UNLESS! the country they are based opts out of it which is harder to do than just comply with it.
Comments
I think regulation like this is more like speed limits and traffic signs, or regulate lotteries.
I think a big problem with the internet is that it's all.. Well, software, so to speak. There is nothing physical about. If you buy something in a physical shop, you have your goods in your carts, you put them physically there. You see the cost at the counter, you physically hand over the money (or at least your credit card).
In the web, it's all just a few clicks. It feels different.
You don't know if the next click will lead you to a confirmation page with all the details of billing address, payment information and the goods you wanted, or already finalizes the purchase. That's why there are no laws to require the final step in an online transaction to be clearly labelled as such.
Our human brains didn't evolve for an enviroment where everything happens with a few clicks, they don't calculate odds of winning in lotteries correctly. The human brain is exploitable, and while you might want everyone to be capable of seeing through all the tricks and guises, they factually do not, and if you don't believe, me think about how much money Cryptic probably already made with Lockbox ships. And if we want to minimize the impact, we need some laws to regulate it.
However, I still don't know why you might need a warning that peanuts might contain nuts.
So naive lol
Would love to see microsoft do this just to prove to you what would happen
To be honest, you can compete even without spending any "real" currency, and thats intentional, why else would they allow trade of zen/dilithium
Just takes longer to obtain your items
Basically if you summarize just about every gambling law it basically boils down to there are limits on the odds but its not clearly stated. Although because you can get these lockbox items without paying a dime in my experience with these type of things they really aren't required to have a gambling license.
To sum it up the average powerball in a given state usually averages 830 to 840 billion to one odds that you will win. I would wager that its near the ceiling of the laws from state to state. Although if you look at STO's lockboxes with own personal numbers it ranges for me 100-300 lockboxes before I win the crutch/lockbox ship. So you can do the math on that and see Cryptic's STO lockboxes are no where near the ceiling as well as no where above that ceiling that is stipulated in such laws. So therefore there is no issue on the matter. LOL
If you are operating in the EU which Crpytic/PWE are as we can play their games then you are subject to the laws of the EU.
"the CPC and EC want developers to cut out any direct calls for purchasing in-game items (such as "Buy now!" or "Upgrade now!") in any title likely to appeal to children."
It doesn't matter if you can grind the zen and dil. They might have to remove the "buy more slots" from the interface.
Based on what you have quoted - they'll have to change the game or lose the market.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
- Oh, what about those "game cards" that are distributed in stores or the payment with mobile phone, where minors have unlimited access to whithout knowledgement of the parents. BTW, this is only the first step towards companies like yours.
- Dude, the lottery where even a minimum of return, even if it's 1 or 2 Euro, is promised, is been considered as gambling and is under any circumstance forbidden for minors. Even offering, tempting those minors with it, is forbidden.
The commission seems to be treating the term 'free' like it should denote a service where parents can let their kids go wild on their phone without any chance of buying something. But I very much doubt that's how the term is used in most cases, or how most consumers interpret it with regards to games.
Is the EU trying to protect people from the disappointment of finding out some games actually don't give you everything for free, even if they give you some of it? Or do they really think parents should feel protected letting their kids muck around in whatever game they see the word 'free' with, without having to restrict the kid's ability to purchase things? Do they think 'Buy Now' is irresistable to kids under 18, or that it is somehow targeted at them specifically?
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If a kid can buy a card at a store with cash, and then use said card on their parent's phone, they've already spent the money the first time. If the parents really want to control their kid's impulsive purchasing habits, they'd have to control every chance they have to go to a store. Having a digital incentive to buy something is nothing new. But as long as the kid is allowed to make purchases at a store, and isn't using their parents' money without their knowledge, there's nothing to regulate here.
Also, things like trading cards have always had varying degrees of value within. Lockboxes do not give cash returns, nor do they ever reward nothing. You're essentially getting a group of digital 'trading cards' that may or may not be exactly the ones you want. Unless the EU is making trading cards illegal, I don't see how they can honestly do anything to Lockboxes.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Do you know what your kid is doing with his/hers allowance, presuming you have a kid ? You would be suprised how many parents drop from the sky if they caught their kid smoking and it tells them that he/she is already smoking for 2 years and bought those cigs with the allowance they get.
by defintion a slot machine offers a "prize" as well. like trying to tell an apple from an orange apart between the lock box and gambling machine and miss the liberty bell that is the gambling laws around kids. but even being forced to publish the odds is a step in the right direction even though some place it around 0.5% for the mega prize.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
No by reading the new laws all they will need is an asterisk and a disclaimer.
At the most they may need to adjust how one accesses the in-game store if they are under age.
If this was the case NO! products would be covered with warranties etc.
UNLESS! the country they are based opts out of it which is harder to do than just comply with it.