I rate it at no cost because, with three exceptions on the federation side, it requires no console or bridge officer slot that anti stealth devices or abilities do require. It is tied into a ship's hull as a innate ability.
While there are difference between ships that can cloak and those that can't I find one that rates great then one or two hits worth of avoidance or inflicted damage. I could be wrong though, I just never noticed one.
Well, look at it both ways:
On one end, ships that have cloak do give up something usually in terms of stats. Now we can argue all day and night if that balances it out, but they do give up something. You cannot ever 100% 'regain' those stats no matter how you work your spec and build.
So the general breakdown goes roughly like this:
Fed Defiant/Gal-X/Avenger: Use the cloaking console, these ships can gain a basic cloak, but otherwise lose no other stats for this option.
KDF Raptors: Have less shields than comparable ships, and have innate basic cloaks.
KDF BoPs: Have some of the weakest hulls and shields in the game, but all have innate battle cloaks.
KDF Battlecruisers: All have innate cloaks, but tend to not give up as much or nothing for these (though I'd argue that doesn't hold true for the Bortas).
Romulan Warbirds: Tend to be, in general, slower than comparable ships, and have 40 less base power than MAM core ships, but all have singularity powers and battle cloaks.
Adapted ships: Have innate cloaks, but the cloaks tend to have a weaker base stealth.
Voth ships: Require 2/3 consoles for cloak/battle cloak respectively.
(forgive me if I forgot any)
Again, we can argue all day if these ships give up enough for the sake of balance.
But something important to mention:
A BIG portion of these ships only have normal cloaks. Fed ships, the Adapted ships, the Voth ships (to a point), the KDF Raptors and Battlecruisers. So once they decloak, they STAY decloaked.
The other ones though, are tend to be the ones people talk about:
BoPs
Warbirds
They both have battle cloak. These also tend to be the ones people complain about when cloaking is brought up. Because they can run away during red alert. That is a pretty big thing, to hit and run like that.
Point from all this, is that there are costs for having a cloak. A BoP isn't gonna have escort-level hull or shields no matter how hard it tries. You can do whatever you want to make a BoP 'tanky' but numbers don't lie, and you can only do so much to get more not-dying out of it. Nothing changes those base stats.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
So many different "Classes" and so much Disparity between them.
The Fed ships should get seperated into more categories than the generic ones we have now.
Feds have no Raiders, nor Raptors, so you cant really compare them. There should be real comparable ships. The only ships you can truly compare, are one that where shipped at the same time and meant to be comparable vessels I.E. Oddy and Bortas. the new DSD's. Mogh and Avenger. Actually comparable ships.
Im just saying Escort is an extremely broad term. And may or may not share similarities here and there.
The ships everyone tries to compare are not comparable. Plain and simple. Especially the Raiders those are in their own class.
Two directly comparable ships, Raptor and Escort, are Qin Heavy Raptor and Tactical Escort Retrofit.
So these two DIRECTLY COMPARABLE SHIPS, which is better? The Qin. Both T5. Qin gets an innate cloak and better hull and it is a FREE ship when chosen while leveling.
Im just saying BoPs are in their own class. Is the cloak detection a bit shoddy? sure. Do i care if the cloak detection is good? Nope. QQ till your blue in face, argue till your blue in the face.
Unless Cryptic decides to make ships that hail to an even number of categories each there will always be a balance issue, and things will always be better than other things.
Rogue Vs Rogue, base should be a dead even fight.
Tank vs Tank, base should be a dead even fight.
This game is so big on the surface, but scratch that surface its dead locked into these tiny little limitations.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Ok. For a battle cloak I will concede there are (with the exception I think a Mogai) there is a drop in hull and shields is not great, but non-trivial drops in hull and shields. Point taken.
These drops in hull and shields are not more then 5 to 3K base hull or .1 to .3 in shield modifiers with normal cloaks. Not more then 10K or .3 battle cloaks vs. normal cloaks. I will restrict my points about "cloaks" to non-battle cloaks.
In PvE (to a lesser or greater point in PvP) where the difference in 10-20K hp is longer then then a minuet -OR- (not and/or) it's shorter then 5-10seconds. In practice I wouldn't be nearly so bitter if a middle ground actually did exist. Until this change, I will acknowledge there is a difference. I will not acknowledge it a significant difference.
"No Cost"...lol[...]I suspect you lack experience on the side that has ships that cloak. Lots of lack.[...]
I will freely tell you I spend a great deal more time on my federation characters then I do KDF or romulan.
I know the value of patients. It's the difference between using a cloak as tool, and using it for extra DPS push. If you are using it for a DPS push, you are far better off not using something that specializes in cloaking.
[...]That's not a flaw in game mechanics, that's a player defect. The info on how to bust Cloakers isn't new news, it's old news, it's already in the game, it's already there, it's your choice whether you use it or not.[...]
That's ... sorry ... a horrible attitude. I do not like studying history, but that's your general view you should. Your not fighting a war, and your not fighting for life or death. You're playing a game...
Edit: It's in your best interests to play fairly and on equal (even if different) footing simply because it keeps people you play with coming back to play with you.
Birds of prey would do noticeable poorer without a battle battle. They'd become birds of prAy because you'd suddenly find the ability to pray when using them.
Raptors and warbirds? Their not a exact mirror of federation escorts, but they're close enough. Without cloaks they'd do almost or as well. I'm still going to say it's a "free" ability they're getting without any significant thing in trade.
That still leaves things like the battle cruisers unspoken for, Which I think is a interesting point. :P
Thing is, you can't just write off difference in base amounts as piddly amounts and let it go at that.
5k difference in base hull? Add in 9 Structural Integrity, that's now a 6.5k difference. Add a single blue Mk XI Neut without any other DRR, and it's now a 7.6k difference. As one actually builds the ship/captain out, those differences can easily double or more. (Hence my continual complaints about Cryptic using this mechanic rather than applying flat chunks - in which case that difference would be static rather than growing and growing and growing and growing.)
So, I guess you like to run around in your Aquarius? (Stats are identical to a BoP, but more hull)...right?
or are you one of those poor, deluded souls that think the current crop of Raptors aren't utter and complete TRIBBLE compared to FedScorts at the same Tier?
I suspect you lack experience on the side that has ships that cloak. Lots of lack.
It actually takes a bit of work to make a Bird of Prey viable-it runs one less bridge officer, fewer guns, thinner hull, weaker shields.
Raptors sacrifice the ability to turn through TRIBBLE Inertia numbers and slower turn rates, along with often significantly weaker shielding and nearly useless bump to hull (effectively the abilty to take one, as in one single, extra hit vs. any Fedscort-and they take longer to recover crew too-so self-repair is much, much slower-they end up melting faster under fire.)
what this means:
Bird of Prey is like flying a motorcycle-you have about that much protection, and you're running fewer, lighter guns with less power to them vs. a typical, bog-standard free Federation Escort, and they don't come with the free sensor analysis or high shielding numbers that grace Federation science ships.
Raptors-the BEST Raptor in the game (the Fleet Somraw) is roughly performance-equivalent to the Federation Patrol Escort-a free ship.
we're talking straight performance here-like vs. like, or comparison by role.
HOW you feds get rolled by BoPs is simple-you didn't spec into the things that are already there to keep you from getting rolled, instead, you focused on racing your DPS to the exclusion of all other considerations.
That's not a flaw in game mechanics, that's a player defect. The info on how to bust Cloakers isn't new news, it's old news, it's already in the game, it's already there, it's your choice whether you use it or not.
It's not unfair or my fault (or the fault of any KDF player) if you chose to put all your work into the three minute Infected run, instead of developing a balanced pve/pvp build. For a KDF, (with the notable exception of the craptastic Bortasque and the gimpy Raptor classes), building to balance PvE with PvP is kind of mandatory-there's really no way to build a good PvE Bird of Prey that isn't at least adequate for PvP, simply because the options for loadout don't allow that-if it sucks for PvP, it'll suck for PvE-and vise-versa with the Bird of Prey (which, aside from careful play, even with the best builds will somewhat suck at both, esp. compared to Romulan or Federation equivalents minus the Aquarius...)
When you, a Fed, get blown up at Ker'rat by a Vaper-build BoP (or get slagtied by Thissler in C&H by her Marmot or Marmot Mk II), it's because that player put a lot of effort into building to that tactic, learning how to time it, and learning how to do it-and you spent little to no time with your own build learning how to counter.
Simple fact. the BoP class is the softest, easiest kill in the game-against a prepared opponent, it's only dangerous against the unprepared-and those are usually unprepared because they Chose to be.
No offense mate, but as you are basically talking of Klingon Escort-comparable ships, they are TRIBBLE, and that's because of the simple reason that KDFscorts didn't get any love for quite a while.
While your arguments apply perfectly for those 2 groups i have to agree with esoundingenvoy's statement:
Battle Cruisers as well as Warbirds don't give up anything for their (Battle) Cloaks.
Ok, Ok, Stats wise you might say Federation Cruisers are comparable to KDF BCs, but then again, i may remind you that Tanking is worthless and DPS is king. That applied i have to say, yes, Cloaking ships on KDF and Romulan side (Raptors and Raiders excepted) do not give up anything for their cloaks.
No offense mate, but as you are basically talking of Klingon Escort-comparable ships, they are TRIBBLE, and that's because of the simple reason that KDFscorts didn't get any love for quite a while.
While your arguments apply perfectly for those 2 groups i have to agree with esoundingenvoy's statement: Battle Cruisers as well as Warbirds don't give up anything for their (Battle) Cloaks.
Ok, Ok, Stats wise you might say Federation Cruisers are comparable to KDF BCs, but then again, i may remind you that Tanking is worthless and DPS is king. That applied i have to say, yes, Cloaking ships on KDF and Romulan side (Raptors and Raiders excepted) do not give up anything for their cloaks.
(Prepares for incoming rant)
Battle Cruisers are in the same boat as Raptors...
...not sure why you'd put them in with Warbirds.
I'm assuming you said "(Battle) Cloaks" for Battle Cruisers and Warbirds, to separate out that Battle Cruisers do not have Battle Cloaks but just have normal Cloaks...right? Just a way of saving typing - not having to say Battle Cruisers for their Cloaks and Warbirds for their Battle Cloaks...right?
Battle Cruisers are in the same boat as Raptors...
...not sure why you'd put them in with Warbirds.
I'm assuming you said "(Battle) Cloaks" for Battle Cruisers and Warbirds, to separate out that Battle Cruisers do not have Battle Cloaks but just have normal Cloaks...right? Just a way of saving typing - not having to say Battle Cruisers for their Cloaks and Warbirds for their Battle Cloaks...right?
1)
I was basically comparing FEDscorts vs Raptors (and Raiders) and FED Cruisers vs KDF Cruisers. While i do agree the KDFs escorty ships do a massive tradeoff for their cloaking devices, i do not see any trade the Battle Cruisers are making. They are just the more advanced damage dealers compared to fed cruisers - with the cloak-alpha-strike&surprise enhancement.
Concerning Warbirds i see another kind of unbalancement, we'll forget about the warp/sing core thing, neglecting the difference. Then we have some ships that are generally comparable (or even superior) to some FED or KDF ships, while having a Battle Cloak without a tradeoff.
2) Yeah, i wrote (Battle) Cloak, 'cause i'm simply a lazy guy
People please. The argument is Fed or KDF against Romulan Warbirds.
KDF ships are actually balanced to a point against Fed ships. They Do give up stats for the cloak.
Romulan ships however... What do they give up really? Better Cloak. 4 Free magic core abilities. Where did the come from???? All non tac boffs stack additional CritH on top of Tac boffs as well. Similar HP and shield mods. Larger ships than their Fed and KDF counterparts but better turn rates??? Seriously??
Lol, agreed
FED and KDF Captains let's unite against this grait unfairness that has been done to us! :P
Btw, there are 5 free magic core abilities xD
People want to negate cloaks without putting any effort into it. That Battle Cloak is costing you massive hull, or sticking you with a singularity core instead of a real generator. But having aux high and a few points in sensors? Why that's just silly talk, no one should have to turn off A2B or pay a skill level or two from their build to put back into sensors.
In fact, cloaking's only utility should be to turn off your shields, so that they still have that nice, fluffy ability, but without affecting one's ability to blow them the **** up from 9.9km away once you spot them. Then the new Fed 3-frigate-slot All-Universals 4/4 battle-cloaking Escort Carrier with secondary deflectors that will introduce all these new changes will finally be balanced with the evil evil warbirds!
[...]In PvE (to a lesser or greater point in PvP) where the difference in 10-20K hp is longer then then a minuet -OR- (not and/or) it's shorter then 5-10second.s. In practice I wouldn't be nearly so bitter if a middle ground actually did exist.[...]
There are so many resistance and heals a battle draws out anywhere from minuets to infinity, or you can spike burst damage so much having 100K wouldn't help you. Well, 100K would have A it wouldn't have a affect on the outcome of a well done spike. You spike resistance in hurt long enough to out last the spike and heal right back 100% before someone can spike their damage again, or you die.
People want to negate cloaks without putting any effort into it.[...]
I wish a fair parody in my effort actually. :P That is I want people to have to work as hard in planning and gear to keep a cloak as I do breaking a cloak. Instead of a cloak fobbed off for merely being in a faction. :P
People please. The argument is Fed or KDF against Romulan Warbirds.
KDF ships are actually balanced to a point against Fed ships. They Do give up stats for the cloak.
Romulan ships however... What do they give up really? Better Cloak. 4 Free magic core abilities. Where did the come from???? All non tac boffs stack additional CritH on top of Tac boffs as well. Similar HP and shield mods. Larger ships than their Fed and KDF counterparts but better turn rates??? Seriously??
-40 power levels... um How do they have better turn rates, last time I checked Ha'apax and D'deridex have less turn rate then battle cruisers and cruisers... Fleet Ha'feh is basically the same as Fleet Advanced escort and slower turn rate then the fleet tactical escort.
Scimitar is comparable to fleet assault cruiser, both have 7 turn rate but assault cruiser has has more Hp in hull.
The T'varo turns a lot slower then B'rel...
Mogai is hard to compare to anything, but its shield mod is maybe too high, or other destroyers to low,probably both
Fleet Ar'Kif Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit and Fleet Dhelan is the only ones that I feel the stats are off and their turn rate should be 15.
Ok, 1K or 20K in base hull is far more then just 1K or 20K. I still stand by what I said. :P
There are so many resistance and heals a battle draws out anywhere from minuets to infinity, or you can spike burst damage so much having 100K wouldn't help you. Well, 100K would have A it wouldn't have a affect on the outcome of a well done spike. You spike resistance in hurt long enough to out last the spike and heal right back 100% before someone can spike their damage again, or you die.
Edit:
I wish a fair parody in my effort actually. :P That is I want people to have to work as hard in planning and gear to keep a cloak as I do breaking a cloak. Instead of a cloak fobbed off for merely being in a faction. :P
For all intensive purposes a cloak is designed to be stealthy, and hard to detect.
Not meh and need to really try to hide from the typical ship that doesn't seek to sniff them out.
Otherwise if they made it so easy for the normal everyday ship to find them, without so much as spending the effort into it, than what is the point of having a cloaking system?
Even in a canon point of view they are extremely difficult to detect.
The T'Varo's a Defiant with a Battlecloak (actually, Enhanced Battlecloak), the Scim may have a slower turn-rate, but the positioning of weapons and the Battlecloak+Singularity powers along with the seating gives it a lot of capability that the cruiser doesn't have-it can ambush and escape fairly easily-far more easily than, say, Raptor with a turn of 15, and it can endure far, far, better than a B'rel against those things that typically kill cloaked ships.
Fleet Ha'Feh is, as you note, equivalent to a Fleet Advanced-making it better than the Qin or Somraw raptors even before you note the Ha'Feh also has four singularity powers and a Battlecloak.
The -40 power is easily made up with highly-available and inexpensive Plasmonic Leech on the Fed side, and even without leech, the ability to make up that reduction doesn't take a lot of work.
The stats of the Romulan warbirds only make sense if you consider them to be designed to appeal to Federation players-if they were balanced the way KDF ships were, legacy of romulus wouldn't have sold to the target audience.
A cruiser can escape just as well as a scimitar you haven't set it up right in fact, there are more engi Escape abilities then Tactical, the only one being attack pattern omega which fleet assault cruiser can get...
Battle cloak can be stopped with the right build... Hell you know how you say, a Romulan ship can easily get past -40 power with plasmonic leash there are many console that are anti cloak. Why don't you use one if loosing a console slot is so easy?
Raptors need a shield buff to .99 I will not argue against that. But to assume something is OP becuase you don't use the right counter build is jumping the gun. Even to assume the power lose is nothing is bull, becuase it requires more investment in power skills then a similarly built fed and kdf.
Comments
It is when there is really nothing wrong as of right now.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Well, look at it both ways:
On one end, ships that have cloak do give up something usually in terms of stats. Now we can argue all day and night if that balances it out, but they do give up something. You cannot ever 100% 'regain' those stats no matter how you work your spec and build.
So the general breakdown goes roughly like this:
Fed Defiant/Gal-X/Avenger: Use the cloaking console, these ships can gain a basic cloak, but otherwise lose no other stats for this option.
KDF Raptors: Have less shields than comparable ships, and have innate basic cloaks.
KDF BoPs: Have some of the weakest hulls and shields in the game, but all have innate battle cloaks.
KDF Battlecruisers: All have innate cloaks, but tend to not give up as much or nothing for these (though I'd argue that doesn't hold true for the Bortas).
Romulan Warbirds: Tend to be, in general, slower than comparable ships, and have 40 less base power than MAM core ships, but all have singularity powers and battle cloaks.
Adapted ships: Have innate cloaks, but the cloaks tend to have a weaker base stealth.
Voth ships: Require 2/3 consoles for cloak/battle cloak respectively.
(forgive me if I forgot any)
Again, we can argue all day if these ships give up enough for the sake of balance.
But something important to mention:
A BIG portion of these ships only have normal cloaks. Fed ships, the Adapted ships, the Voth ships (to a point), the KDF Raptors and Battlecruisers. So once they decloak, they STAY decloaked.
The other ones though, are tend to be the ones people talk about:
BoPs
Warbirds
They both have battle cloak. These also tend to be the ones people complain about when cloaking is brought up. Because they can run away during red alert. That is a pretty big thing, to hit and run like that.
Point from all this, is that there are costs for having a cloak. A BoP isn't gonna have escort-level hull or shields no matter how hard it tries. You can do whatever you want to make a BoP 'tanky' but numbers don't lie, and you can only do so much to get more not-dying out of it. Nothing changes those base stats.
The reason im saying they are wrong, are there are disparities in the classes.
Federation:
Cruiser
Escort
Science Vessel
Klingons:
Raiders
Raptors
Battle Cruisers
Destroyers
Support Vessels
Flight-Deck Cruisers
Carriers
Romulans:
Warbirds
Warbird Battle Cruisers
Science Vessels
Destroyers
So many different "Classes" and so much Disparity between them.
The Fed ships should get seperated into more categories than the generic ones we have now.
Feds have no Raiders, nor Raptors, so you cant really compare them. There should be real comparable ships. The only ships you can truly compare, are one that where shipped at the same time and meant to be comparable vessels I.E. Oddy and Bortas. the new DSD's. Mogh and Avenger. Actually comparable ships.
Im just saying Escort is an extremely broad term. And may or may not share similarities here and there.
The ships everyone tries to compare are not comparable. Plain and simple. Especially the Raiders those are in their own class.
Two directly comparable ships, Raptor and Escort, are Qin Heavy Raptor and Tactical Escort Retrofit.
Tier:5
Type:Raptor
Hull:33,000
Standard Shields:4,129 (Mk VIII)
Shield Modifier:0.83
Weapons:Fore 4 Aft 3
Can equip dual cannons.
Crew:200
Bridge Officers
Device Slots:2
Console: tac 4 eng 3 sci 2
Turn Rate:15
Impulse Modifier:0.20
Inertia rating:60
Bonus Power:+15 weapons power
Cost:120,000
Abilities:Cloak
Tier:5
Type:Escort
Hull:30,000
Standard Shields:4,703 (Mk X)
Shield Modifier:0.9
Weapons:Fore 4 Aft 3
Can equip dual cannons.
Crew:50
Bridge Officers:
Device Slots:2
Consoles: tac 4 eng 3 Sci 2
Turn Rate:17
Impulse Modifier:0.20
Inertia rating:70
Bonus Power:+15 weapons power
Cost:2,000Zen
Abilities:Cloak (Console)
So these two DIRECTLY COMPARABLE SHIPS, which is better? The Qin. Both T5. Qin gets an innate cloak and better hull and it is a FREE ship when chosen while leveling.
Im just saying BoPs are in their own class. Is the cloak detection a bit shoddy? sure. Do i care if the cloak detection is good? Nope. QQ till your blue in face, argue till your blue in the face.
Unless Cryptic decides to make ships that hail to an even number of categories each there will always be a balance issue, and things will always be better than other things.
Rogue Vs Rogue, base should be a dead even fight.
Tank vs Tank, base should be a dead even fight.
This game is so big on the surface, but scratch that surface its dead locked into these tiny little limitations.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
R.I.P
Ok. For a battle cloak I will concede there are (with the exception I think a Mogai) there is a drop in hull and shields is not great, but non-trivial drops in hull and shields. Point taken.
These drops in hull and shields are not more then 5 to 3K base hull or .1 to .3 in shield modifiers with normal cloaks. Not more then 10K or .3 battle cloaks vs. normal cloaks. I will restrict my points about "cloaks" to non-battle cloaks.
In PvE (to a lesser or greater point in PvP) where the difference in 10-20K hp is longer then then a minuet -OR- (not and/or) it's shorter then 5-10seconds. In practice I wouldn't be nearly so bitter if a middle ground actually did exist. Until this change, I will acknowledge there is a difference. I will not acknowledge it a significant difference.
I will freely tell you I spend a great deal more time on my federation characters then I do KDF or romulan.
I know the value of patients. It's the difference between using a cloak as tool, and using it for extra DPS push. If you are using it for a DPS push, you are far better off not using something that specializes in cloaking.
That's ... sorry ... a horrible attitude. I do not like studying history, but that's your general view you should. Your not fighting a war, and your not fighting for life or death. You're playing a game...
Edit: It's in your best interests to play fairly and on equal (even if different) footing simply because it keeps people you play with coming back to play with you.
Birds of prey would do noticeable poorer without a battle battle. They'd become birds of prAy because you'd suddenly find the ability to pray when using them.
Raptors and warbirds? Their not a exact mirror of federation escorts, but they're close enough. Without cloaks they'd do almost or as well. I'm still going to say it's a "free" ability they're getting without any significant thing in trade.
That still leaves things like the battle cruisers unspoken for, Which I think is a interesting point. :P
5k difference in base hull? Add in 9 Structural Integrity, that's now a 6.5k difference. Add a single blue Mk XI Neut without any other DRR, and it's now a 7.6k difference. As one actually builds the ship/captain out, those differences can easily double or more. (Hence my continual complaints about Cryptic using this mechanic rather than applying flat chunks - in which case that difference would be static rather than growing and growing and growing and growing.)
No offense mate, but as you are basically talking of Klingon Escort-comparable ships, they are TRIBBLE, and that's because of the simple reason that KDFscorts didn't get any love for quite a while.
While your arguments apply perfectly for those 2 groups i have to agree with esoundingenvoy's statement:
Battle Cruisers as well as Warbirds don't give up anything for their (Battle) Cloaks.
Ok, Ok, Stats wise you might say Federation Cruisers are comparable to KDF BCs, but then again, i may remind you that Tanking is worthless and DPS is king. That applied i have to say, yes, Cloaking ships on KDF and Romulan side (Raptors and Raiders excepted) do not give up anything for their cloaks.
(Prepares for incoming rant)
Battle Cruisers are in the same boat as Raptors...
...not sure why you'd put them in with Warbirds.
I'm assuming you said "(Battle) Cloaks" for Battle Cruisers and Warbirds, to separate out that Battle Cruisers do not have Battle Cloaks but just have normal Cloaks...right? Just a way of saving typing - not having to say Battle Cruisers for their Cloaks and Warbirds for their Battle Cloaks...right?
1)
I was basically comparing FEDscorts vs Raptors (and Raiders) and FED Cruisers vs KDF Cruisers. While i do agree the KDFs escorty ships do a massive tradeoff for their cloaking devices, i do not see any trade the Battle Cruisers are making. They are just the more advanced damage dealers compared to fed cruisers - with the cloak-alpha-strike&surprise enhancement.
Concerning Warbirds i see another kind of unbalancement, we'll forget about the warp/sing core thing, neglecting the difference. Then we have some ships that are generally comparable (or even superior) to some FED or KDF ships, while having a Battle Cloak without a tradeoff.
2) Yeah, i wrote (Battle) Cloak, 'cause i'm simply a lazy guy
Lol, agreed
FED and KDF Captains let's unite against this grait unfairness that has been done to us! :P
Btw, there are 5 free magic core abilities xD
In fact, cloaking's only utility should be to turn off your shields, so that they still have that nice, fluffy ability, but without affecting one's ability to blow them the **** up from 9.9km away once you spot them. Then the new Fed 3-frigate-slot All-Universals 4/4 battle-cloaking Escort Carrier with secondary deflectors that will introduce all these new changes will finally be balanced with the evil evil warbirds!
Ok, 1K or 20K in base hull is far more then just 1K or 20K. I still stand by what I said. :P
There are so many resistance and heals a battle draws out anywhere from minuets to infinity, or you can spike burst damage so much having 100K wouldn't help you. Well, 100K would have A it wouldn't have a affect on the outcome of a well done spike. You spike resistance in hurt long enough to out last the spike and heal right back 100% before someone can spike their damage again, or you die.
Edit:
I wish a fair parody in my effort actually. :P That is I want people to have to work as hard in planning and gear to keep a cloak as I do breaking a cloak. Instead of a cloak fobbed off for merely being in a faction. :P
-40 power levels... um How do they have better turn rates, last time I checked Ha'apax and D'deridex have less turn rate then battle cruisers and cruisers... Fleet Ha'feh is basically the same as Fleet Advanced escort and slower turn rate then the fleet tactical escort.
Scimitar is comparable to fleet assault cruiser, both have 7 turn rate but assault cruiser has has more Hp in hull.
The T'varo turns a lot slower then B'rel...
Mogai is hard to compare to anything, but its shield mod is maybe too high, or other destroyers to low,probably both
Fleet Ar'Kif Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit and Fleet Dhelan is the only ones that I feel the stats are off and their turn rate should be 15.
For all intensive purposes a cloak is designed to be stealthy, and hard to detect.
Not meh and need to really try to hide from the typical ship that doesn't seek to sniff them out.
Otherwise if they made it so easy for the normal everyday ship to find them, without so much as spending the effort into it, than what is the point of having a cloaking system?
Even in a canon point of view they are extremely difficult to detect.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
A cruiser can escape just as well as a scimitar you haven't set it up right in fact, there are more engi Escape abilities then Tactical, the only one being attack pattern omega which fleet assault cruiser can get...
Battle cloak can be stopped with the right build... Hell you know how you say, a Romulan ship can easily get past -40 power with plasmonic leash there are many console that are anti cloak. Why don't you use one if loosing a console slot is so easy?
Raptors need a shield buff to .99 I will not argue against that. But to assume something is OP becuase you don't use the right counter build is jumping the gun. Even to assume the power lose is nothing is bull, becuase it requires more investment in power skills then a similarly built fed and kdf.