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sierra078
Member Posts: 335 Arc User
I'm currently running a Mirror universe advanced escort with mostly fleet equipment (All weapons, both engineering and all three sci consoles as well as two tactical consoles from the spire and the Adapted MACO space set). I've seen how effective I am with this ship and was wondering if getting the Fleet Tactical Escort was worth the extra tactical console. Specific load-out is as follows.
2x Dual heavy phaser cannons
3x phaser array (2x aft, 1x forward)
2x Transphasic (1x aft, 1x forward)
Monotanium and Neutronium consoles from the fleet dilithium mine
Three shield emitter consoles from the Embassy
One purple transphasic compressor (mk xii)
One blue phaser relay mk xi (i think)
One transphasic and one phaser console from the spire.
Bridge officer stations
Scatter Volley II
Cannon Rapid Fire III
Torpedo High Yield III
Beam Fire at will II
Beam Overload I
Torpedo Spread II
Tactical Team 1
Emergency power to weapons and shields
Polarize hull plating, science team 2, hazard emitters.
If I got the Fleet Escort I know I would loose polarize hull plating unless i switched it with hazard emitters or sci team and a science console but on the other hand I would gain the extra tactical console. What do you think?
2x Dual heavy phaser cannons
3x phaser array (2x aft, 1x forward)
2x Transphasic (1x aft, 1x forward)
Monotanium and Neutronium consoles from the fleet dilithium mine
Three shield emitter consoles from the Embassy
One purple transphasic compressor (mk xii)
One blue phaser relay mk xi (i think)
One transphasic and one phaser console from the spire.
Bridge officer stations
Scatter Volley II
Cannon Rapid Fire III
Torpedo High Yield III
Beam Fire at will II
Beam Overload I
Torpedo Spread II
Tactical Team 1
Emergency power to weapons and shields
Polarize hull plating, science team 2, hazard emitters.
If I got the Fleet Escort I know I would loose polarize hull plating unless i switched it with hazard emitters or sci team and a science console but on the other hand I would gain the extra tactical console. What do you think?
Post edited by sierra078 on
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B. An escort should almost never use beam arrays, as it should be agile enough to keep the target in the forward arc. So baisically, all aft weapons should have 360 degree arcs.
C. Sort of extended point B, An extra DHC would help. Also, using more than one (or any) Torp damage consoles is not recommended.
What are you intending to do with it anyway? PvE or PvP?
About beams vs cannons.
Beams are the best for dps. Aoe means more to people in this game
Cannons are the best burst. Much better for pvp spike.
You should link your build in stoacademy.com. Looks like it needs help
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Just a question, where do you get 'beams are better for dps'? Because if im sitting on someones tail, I know DHC's are going to kill him faster...
Going all beams while spamming BFAW and APB gives you the highest sustained DPS. Cannons put more hurt on single targets but over time BFAW/APB spamming gets you a higher overall DPS score.
Right, that's the pvp burst I was talking about...seems like you only skimmed over what I said.
Let's just say the top beam dps does 50k and the top cannon does 35k over the course of an ise run. (real numbers).
I've explained why cannons suck in dps races enough times, basically it's the arc that hurts them the most
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
But (yes here come the buts) Doesnt a high turn rate nuetralize low arc? I do see where you are coming from though, double the arc double the hit... but only if you are not moving...
He's talking about faw parser log numbers, where you spam faw nonstop to tickle many targets while barely killing any of them to get large total numbers, as opposed to doing anything useful. While with dhcs you hit only things that matter, like transformers or that elite cube.
As for "dps," I wouldn't put too much faith on it. For every 50k dps beam log, I can show you a 100k dps dhc log, both proves little. Turns out that the vaunted 100k dps kumari log was made by a guy cycling scatter while sitting point blank in front of a vesta gravity well sucking in deeply debuffed mobs in mirror event. You need to look at context. When a beam spam faw near a stationary cube, how much of the dps actually lands on the nanite sphere that matter, and how many lands on the immune cube and immune spheres? All dps is recorded in log, but they don't all matter.
yes, cannons can do more damage, but they also require time to align. and that isn't as trivial as many people pretend to think.
there are quite common situations where you have to deal with larger quantities of small ships or objects, like tholian web net. full cannon setup would require individual targeting of web nodes and individual aligning to them. not to mention that object "web net" stays between you and actual web net swarmer preventing a player from mouse pinpointing.
in that situation you will need 20-30 sec to overcome that obstacle.
on other hand if you fit dbb fore and a single beam aft, as well as a faw1 or faw2 you will evaporize all of them with a single button click.
same goes for plasma balls and other stuff.
it is a well known fact by now that beam arrays do more encounter DPS.
the huge drawback of beams has allways been the energy consumption. But that is not an issue anymore (drain resists, overcapping).
anyway, i think the most fun is a ship that can support a GW1 or higher, combined with cannons and scatter volley. This is the most burst/utility i've seen. Unfortunately the core breach damage of your targets is not added to your dmg numbers, which leaves that build behind in parsed logs.
so in that regard a good escort choice would be advanced escort, breen destroyer, temporal destroyer, tal shiar adapted destroyer, elachi escort, breen raider, chimera.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
I totally got that combo down pat! I have been able to take on a 5point on my own in Azure with my build due to that combo. I go EPTW1, TS3, APA, FOMM, GW1, CSV1, BFAW1, TT then watch the fire works.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1008541
I fly the advanced escort fleet version and I love that thing to death!
Your "10 sec" isn't as much an exaggeration as you think. It's a short mirror event, in a rigged run. The only "down time" would be traveling among 4 groups of grav welled and deeply debuffed mobs.
Whoever said ISE... But there are beamboats in IS (not elite, too much to tank) breaching 60k dps by spamming nonstop on invincible cube and nanite spheres while just outside of non invincible spheres.
Like I said, "dps" doesn't mean as much as many people think. Escort heavy stf runs tend to be shorter than all beam stf runs, despite lower dps on parser logs. There are good reasons for that.
Ise is the accepted benchmark of the community, different instances yield different results. Ise acts as the control due to the simple design of it.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Your "accepted benchmark of the community" is nothing more than an e-penor measuring stick. There is no point. The issue remains that beam spam dps isn't in line with stf run completion times. Not all dps are created equal. Focused and controlled dps are more effective and produce shorter runs.
riddle me this: why are ALL record runs done with beam scimitars?
Well said.
50k DPS is achieved with FAW and hangers. I run a tac escort with DHC and parse ALL space combat and the only time I lose in the damage and dps race is against someone packing FAW and hanger pets. Even then it only happens sporadically.
All records where? You've been hanging out at a certain pissing contest channel for too long. They choose to use romulan plasma scimitars. It's solid, but there is more to the game than scimitars.:rolleyes:
ok now you are just trolling...is such a setup not legit in your eyes, or what?
In the real game you're not going to be teamed up with 4 scimitars, and puggers won't be ganging up hitting exactly what they should be. What you can count on is your own dps, whether it's focused dhcs or diffused faw setup. There won't be the 4x broadsides to call upon. When it matters, it often comes down to what you can take out on your own.
Yep. I'm with ya there...he's been trolling non stop, was starting to get to me until I realized what he was doing...i think he took subtlety trolling to a new level to be honest.
No amount of fact and data will help. He is just trying to be a pain
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
i'm the first to argue that an ISE run is NOT an accurate measurement for YOUR OWN DPS. That doesn't mean that DHC are better than beams! There is no real stronger or weaker, they do different things, basically.
I'd say that beams, combined with certain builds and setups are much more effective for STF content, hence the record runs are done with beams, not cannons.
when ever you need burst, DHC have the upper hand, sadly that is not as much the case as one would wish for. Honestly i don't have an answer how this could be acomplished. Maybe kamikaze ships that need to be shot down fast?
but seriously, you dismiss beam setups, because you think they shouldn't be better than cannons? kind of pathetic imo.
I'll repeat again: ultimately, it comes down that what you can accomplish yourself. You either have one beam broadside that slowly tickle what you want to kill, or one dhc boat that can just kill it. Public games are where nearly all activities in sto happen. Artificial setups that are only effective under artificial circumstances are nothing more than just that.
You should try public elite, the groups there are pretty decent. I'd stay away from dps channels, although they would probably help your build to min/max it, you wouldn't accept it.
Either way, you should try public elite, queues are for the ill-informed.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Being useful in a FAW boat is not that hard. You just have to use good piloting and you have to pay attention so that only 3 or fewer bad guys are in your arc before you hit BFAW. If too many bad guys are in your arc you don't use BFAW or you reposition.
How many people do this you ask, well that is a different story....
You need to brush up on your facts. Chained dhc crfs pump out more sustained dps than broadside by a long shot, overcap or not.
It's only when it comes to faw that things change. Faw hits 2 targets, but on full beam array arc. Scatter hits 3 target, but only on 90 degree arc.
On the flip side, faw hits random targets. The 2 targets per beam that's hit changes with each strike, each beam chooses its own targets. Where scatter selects 3 targets on activation, and all guns keep hitting the same 3 until ability ends or target is dead.
It's all about the concentration of fire. Hence why 5 coordinated beam boats produce record times, yet a single beam boat can hardly kill anything in estfs.
I have a question, i want to buy a TAC ship and i was loking for these:
-Fleet Tactical Escort retrofit.
-Charal / Kumari
-Avenger
Any suggestion?
thanks
Kumari for the highest dps. Avenger for highest tank. What do you want to do with it?