Cooper is over-the-top obnoxious, petulant, and borderline incompetent. There is no comparison at all, really.
Again, why? He operated alien machinery under pressure in a situation he was never expected to be in. Although this was the evil shapeshifter's plot to begin with, if Cooper would have been real people would just as annoyed about him, just because he isn't Terran Space Marine #431 like that guy in the Voth Battlezone. That US Marine clich? ticked me off. "Oo-rah Starfleet go out and KILL stuff!".
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Wesley was correct about what was occurring when Picard told him to shut up. Picard is the one who looked foolish. The comparison is completely broken.
Plus, Picard invited him onto the bridge and thus owed him the respect he would give to anyone serving on the bridge. If he had been professional he would have listened to him. The less professional response, but still one that was more professional than telling him to shut up would have been to dismiss him from the bridge.
No, LOL. Picard was absolutely right. Wesley was being his smartalicky, dweepy self, and was totally out of line. Being invited onto the bridge means *Wesley* was the one having to show respect, not Picard! Wesley should have understood, and appreciated, the privilege bestowed upon him, and should have just shut up himself, and not touch anything, etc. But instead he exerted his nerdy, uncontrolled self, and talked to Picard as if he hadn't put the toilet seat up or something.
The only reason Picard regretted his words, was because of Beverly (which he felt he owed). But it was painfiully clear why children aren't normally allowed on the bridge of a star ship.
I, for one, found Cooper's behavior to be entirely believable and reasonable, given who he was (supposed to be): A scientist who has absolutely no field training or combat experience, nor any particular desire to experience this, who finds himself suddenly in the middle of a violent war zone.
Despite the fact that at no point does he insult the player, question the player's competence, jeopardize the mission through incompetence (or bad AI, other than the bugs), or otherwise obstruct the player in any (visible) way, certain Internet Tough Guys will naturally find him offensive for one simple reason: He reminds them of the Tough Guy they aren't.
My memory could be off but wasn't Cooper there when the gate was opened in Sphere of Influence? Was he the real one or the imposter?
As for Cooper himself, I didn't mind him at all really. He was a little annoying, sure, but more than that he seemed pretty believable to me which made how things turned out all the more interesting. Besides, I don't think Cooper is nearly important enough to be the next Wesley. Only the future will tell, though.
I, for one, found Cooper's behavior to be entirely believable and reasonable, given who he was (supposed to be): A scientist who has absolutely no field training or combat experience, nor any particular desire to experience this, who finds himself suddenly in the middle of a violent war zone.
Despite the fact that at no point does he insult the player, question the player's competence, jeopardize the mission through incompetence (or bad AI, other than the bugs), or otherwise obstruct the player in any (visible) way, certain Internet Tough Guys will naturally find him offensive for one simple reason: He reminds them of the Tough Guy they aren't.
hah! your complaint on other player inadequacies aside since no one is perfect and everyone is a hypocrite, and your deliberately trying to provoke some sort of hate campaign from it, so im not sure what your point was from the start on that. lets just bury that.
when you compare the likes of cooper to the likes of neelix or jar jar, that would be doing them a disservice as well, they are funny characters, always bouncing off the walls with enthusiasm but accidentally cause a problem, but in the end they always have people who help them through it. just to compare.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
hah! your complaint on other player inadequacies aside since no one is perfect and everyone is a hypocrite, and your deliberately trying to provoke some sort of hate campaign from it, so im not sure what your point was from the start on that. lets just bury that.
when you compare the likes of cooper to the likes of neelix or jar jar, that would be doing them a disservice as well, they are funny characters, always bouncing off the walls with enthusiasm but accidentally cause a problem, but in the end they always have people who help them through it. just to compare.
No, Jar Jar is annoying because he is incompetent and generally causes problems. His enthusiasm is what MAKES him annoying. Cooper, on the other hand (ignoring that it's really just an act), is unenthusiastic and does not really want to be there. He is not a mighty warrior and really just wishes to be someplace where people aren't shooting at him. There is nothing particularly wrong with this, and his behavior is never a hindrance.
What I wanna know is this: Why did "Cooper" attack Tuvok? What did he gain from such an action, especially since he clearly didn't bother to kill Tuvok. Given that it is the goal of the Undine to sow discord between the main races and promote infighting, by revealing himself to Tuvok and then not killing Tuvok, he undermined his own goal. What could possibly have been gained by attacking Tuvok?
What I wanna know is this: Why did "Cooper" attack Tuvok? What did he gain from such an action, especially since he clearly didn't bother to kill Tuvok. Given that it is the goal of the Undine to sow discord between the main races and promote infighting, by revealing himself to Tuvok and then not killing Tuvok, he undermined his own goal. What could possibly have been gained by attacking Tuvok?
At the end of the final cutscene it says "To be continued....". So just wait. :P
Dr. Coopers voice reminded me of some other character but I couldn't remember which one, until I thought of that kid in Family Guy who has a crush on Meg.. :P
What I wanna know is this: Why did "Cooper" attack Tuvok? What did he gain from such an action, especially since he clearly didn't bother to kill Tuvok. Given that it is the goal of the Undine to sow discord between the main races and promote infighting, by revealing himself to Tuvok and then not killing Tuvok, he undermined his own goal. What could possibly have been gained by attacking Tuvok?
Arrogance pure and simple. "Cooper" wanted Tuvok to know that he was fooled and manipulated.
Playing through the mission, all I kept thinking was 'Shut up Cooper.' Don't get me wrong, I find him amusing and glad he was put in, just that I put him up there with Wesley on his incessant babbling. Any other thoughts on him?
....
Did you actually complete the episode or did you leave to go to the bathroom right after you contacted the Voth ship?
I still cannot fathom how Wesley Crusher is the most annoying character in Star Trek while Lt. Barclay gets off scot free. That man created a terrible Holodeck fanfiction that everyone was cool with, turned himself into a Biological to machine intelligence and back again despite everyone pointing out he should have died, helped reform a rogue sentient hologram and trapped him inside a continuous holo program, became the bias of a rescue beacon for Voyager and became the leading source on curing holo-addiction by the time he was done on the Enterprise.
Oh, and he got to meet Zefram Cochrane and shake his hand.
AND EVERYONE WAS OKAY WITH THIS.
What was the worst thing Crusher did? He made friends with Picard and become a Warp prodigy space hobo. Oh my god, what a sin.
Barclay deserved the hate. He was a terrible character. But we let it go because he was over 21, unlike Wesley. That was Wesley's "big turn off". Because he was young, everything he did was Gary Stu.
And in the real world, Wil Wheaton has spent every day since TNG wrapped up for good repaying a debt to the world he did not have to. He invented Wheaton's Law: "Don't be a **** on the internet", helped revitalized the Table top gaming genre on Geek & Sundry and everytime there's a Kings game on TV he puts on a horse head mask and entertains us on Twitter. What has Dwight Shultz done since he stopped being Barclay?
He voiced Dr. Animo on Ben 10.
I know I sound like a crazy Trek fan right now, but dammit, the fandom drove me to it. The proof is all over the walls, people. Barclay was worse than Crusher.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
Did you actually complete the episode or did you leave to go to the bathroom right after you contacted the Voth ship?
I still cannot fathom how Wesley Crusher is the most annoying character in Star Trek while Lt. Barclay gets off scot free. That man created a terrible Holodeck fanfiction that everyone was cool with, turned himself into a Biological to machine intelligence and back again despite everyone pointing out he should have died, helped reform a rogue sentient hologram and trapped him inside a continuous holo program, became the bias of a rescue beacon for Voyager and became the leading source on curing holo-addiction by the time he was done on the Enterprise.
Oh, and he got to meet Zefram Cochrane and shake his hand.
AND EVERYONE WAS OKAY WITH THIS.
What was the worst thing Crusher did? He made friends with Picard and become a Warp prodigy space hobo. Oh my god, what a sin.
Barclay deserved the hate. He was a terrible character. But we let it go because he was over 21, unlike Wesley. That was Wesley's "big turn off". Because he was young, everything he did was Gary Stu.
And in the real world, Wil Wheaton has spent every day since TNG wrapped up for good repaying a debt to the world he did not have to. He invented Wheaton's Law: "Don't be a **** on the internet", helped revitalized the Table top gaming genre on Geek & Sundry and everytime there's a Kings game on TV he puts on a horse head mask and entertains us on Twitter. What has Dwight Shultz done since he stopped being Barclay?
He voiced Dr. Animo on Ben 10.
I know I sound like a crazy Trek fan right now, but dammit, the fandom drove me to it. The proof is all over the walls, people. Barclay was worse than Crusher.
What? Nonsense! I like Barclay.
Classic Reg, programming "the Goddess of Empathy."
Deanna was perfectly fine with the entire thing until "the Goddess of Empathy" arrived on the scene.
I still cannot fathom how Wesley Crusher is the most annoying character in Star Trek while Lt. Barclay gets off scot free. That man created a terrible Holodeck fanfiction that everyone was cool with, turned himself into a Biological to machine intelligence and back again despite everyone pointing out he should have died, helped reform a rogue sentient hologram and trapped him inside a continuous holo program, became the bias of a rescue beacon for Voyager and became the leading source on curing holo-addiction by the time he was done on the Enterprise.
Oh, and he got to meet Zefram Cochrane and shake his hand.
What was the worst thing Crusher did? He made friends with Picard and become a Warp prodigy space hobo. Oh my god, what a sin.
Wesley was the Mary Sue character of TNG - especially during the first Season. He saved the ship/crew something like 7 times; which seems odd when you consider that the Enterprise crew was one of the most gifted and expert in Starfleet - hand-picked by Picard from the best-of-the-best.
Wesley was the cartoon child making other children feel like they can do anything the adults could do. It's great when children see other children in the hero role. It's not so great for adults to watch an untrained child constantly save the day over experienced people who know what they're doing.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Arrogance pure and simple. "Cooper" wanted Tuvok to know that he was fooled and manipulated.
The proper Trek way to resolve it would be to have it be due to "Cooper" having second thoughts because of our innate goodness and Tuvok's adorableness.
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Again, why? He operated alien machinery under pressure in a situation he was never expected to be in. Although this was the evil shapeshifter's plot to begin with, if Cooper would have been real people would just as annoyed about him, just because he isn't Terran Space Marine #431 like that guy in the Voth Battlezone. That US Marine clich? ticked me off. "Oo-rah Starfleet go out and KILL stuff!".
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No, LOL. Picard was absolutely right. Wesley was being his smartalicky, dweepy self, and was totally out of line. Being invited onto the bridge means *Wesley* was the one having to show respect, not Picard! Wesley should have understood, and appreciated, the privilege bestowed upon him, and should have just shut up himself, and not touch anything, etc. But instead he exerted his nerdy, uncontrolled self, and talked to Picard as if he hadn't put the toilet seat up or something.
The only reason Picard regretted his words, was because of Beverly (which he felt he owed). But it was painfiully clear why children aren't normally allowed on the bridge of a star ship.
Despite the fact that at no point does he insult the player, question the player's competence, jeopardize the mission through incompetence (or bad AI, other than the bugs), or otherwise obstruct the player in any (visible) way, certain Internet Tough Guys will naturally find him offensive for one simple reason: He reminds them of the Tough Guy they aren't.
As for Cooper himself, I didn't mind him at all really. He was a little annoying, sure, but more than that he seemed pretty believable to me which made how things turned out all the more interesting. Besides, I don't think Cooper is nearly important enough to be the next Wesley. Only the future will tell, though.
hah! your complaint on other player inadequacies aside since no one is perfect and everyone is a hypocrite, and your deliberately trying to provoke some sort of hate campaign from it, so im not sure what your point was from the start on that. lets just bury that.
when you compare the likes of cooper to the likes of neelix or jar jar, that would be doing them a disservice as well, they are funny characters, always bouncing off the walls with enthusiasm but accidentally cause a problem, but in the end they always have people who help them through it. just to compare.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
No, Jar Jar is annoying because he is incompetent and generally causes problems. His enthusiasm is what MAKES him annoying. Cooper, on the other hand (ignoring that it's really just an act), is unenthusiastic and does not really want to be there. He is not a mighty warrior and really just wishes to be someplace where people aren't shooting at him. There is nothing particularly wrong with this, and his behavior is never a hindrance.
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Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Oops. Wrong thread.
At the end of the final cutscene it says "To be continued....". So just wait. :P
Arrogance pure and simple. "Cooper" wanted Tuvok to know that he was fooled and manipulated.
....
Did you actually complete the episode or did you leave to go to the bathroom right after you contacted the Voth ship?
I still cannot fathom how Wesley Crusher is the most annoying character in Star Trek while Lt. Barclay gets off scot free. That man created a terrible Holodeck fanfiction that everyone was cool with, turned himself into a Biological to machine intelligence and back again despite everyone pointing out he should have died, helped reform a rogue sentient hologram and trapped him inside a continuous holo program, became the bias of a rescue beacon for Voyager and became the leading source on curing holo-addiction by the time he was done on the Enterprise.
Oh, and he got to meet Zefram Cochrane and shake his hand.
AND EVERYONE WAS OKAY WITH THIS.
What was the worst thing Crusher did? He made friends with Picard and become a Warp prodigy space hobo. Oh my god, what a sin.
Barclay deserved the hate. He was a terrible character. But we let it go because he was over 21, unlike Wesley. That was Wesley's "big turn off". Because he was young, everything he did was Gary Stu.
And in the real world, Wil Wheaton has spent every day since TNG wrapped up for good repaying a debt to the world he did not have to. He invented Wheaton's Law: "Don't be a **** on the internet", helped revitalized the Table top gaming genre on Geek & Sundry and everytime there's a Kings game on TV he puts on a horse head mask and entertains us on Twitter. What has Dwight Shultz done since he stopped being Barclay?
He voiced Dr. Animo on Ben 10.
I know I sound like a crazy Trek fan right now, but dammit, the fandom drove me to it. The proof is all over the walls, people. Barclay was worse than Crusher.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
What? Nonsense! I like Barclay.
Classic Reg, programming "the Goddess of Empathy."
Deanna was perfectly fine with the entire thing until "the Goddess of Empathy" arrived on the scene.
Three words: Howling. Mad. Murdoch.
Wesley was the cartoon child making other children feel like they can do anything the adults could do. It's great when children see other children in the hero role. It's not so great for adults to watch an untrained child constantly save the day over experienced people who know what they're doing.
The proper Trek way to resolve it would be to have it be due to "Cooper" having second thoughts because of our innate goodness and Tuvok's adorableness.