Joining a large or high-level fleet is actually a terrible idea: High level fleets have nothing to do, and large fleets have a Zerg Swarm that blocks any opportunity for you to gain any FC. Very few of these larger fleets tend to permit or otherwise facilitate members to take personal initiative in acquiring FC.
What use are fancy stores if you can't afford to buy any of it?
The problem isn't that people are unable to find a fleet to join, the problem is that the game doesn't offer much to people preferring to play in loose groups. Step by step "competative" gear for non-fleet players has been removed from the game and fleet holdings without a doubt hold the best gear available. This is, of course, to steer more people to hit the immensely high paywalls.
Usually, guilds make organizing oneself in a game easier. They offer support and a social enviroment while their members play the game together hoping to achieve that ultra rare loot. Besides organization, a non-aligned player in a public group could get the same loot drop as guild players. But that kind of dynamic is missing from STO. You don't "play the game", you "work" to earn the best gear which lies behind paywalls. There are no dynamic drops of any kind in this game, you don't run STFs or fleet actions to have a chance to find a shiny, you run them to earn currency to buy the exact item that is superior to other items. You can plan out exactly when you get what item and what happens when you log into the game. And most of the times it's exactly NOTHING until those bars are filled.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
What I see as a "flaw" of sorts with today's gamers - and the stance that so many of them seem to have where, if they play the game - they should have the ability to achieve everything they want to in the time they allot to playing, no matter how much or how little it is.
This showed up early in WoW when people complained that "only the uber people can get purples... that's not fair!!!"
Now WoW gives them out like candy, and reportedly, WoW has been bleeding customers like crazy.
Those people who asked for this likely don't even realize that it was getting what they asked for that ruined their experience.
This was one of the brilliant aspects of EQ in the old days- only a VERY few were at the very top... because only a VERY few would invest in getting there. The rest of us, we were somewhere below the top, but you know what? That meant we always had something to work for - something to get... something to DO every night when we logged in.
Analogy: The game doesn't need to force everyone to bake their own bread... but it would be really nice if it had all of the ingredients for bread in there - so that the people who wanted to take the time to make it COULD make it.
Will this mean that the game would have all sorts of levels of "haves and have nots?" YUP!!!
But you know what the difference is?
In EQ, it was the UBER people who burned out and ended up with nothing to do - or hiding from their guild on odd nights because they didn't want to raid or farm (I CAN'T possibly be the ONLY one who would get tells from out of the blue... "Hey, it's so and so - don't tell anyone it's me... I just want to group tonight") - while the rest of us BELOW that tier had stuff to do every day that we WANTED to do...
Where in today's games - EVERYONE runs out of stuff to do, and quickly... In today's game, there is NO home baked bread, and the supply of Walmart bread runs out a few months after you buy it.... no bread for anybody.
STO is already there, and has been for a long time. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but if this game had been anything but Trek, I would have walked years ago. Yet somehow, people still want it even easier than it already is. Amazing.
Maybe rep gear should get a buff to fleet level? STO is pretty much an one player game from level 1-49 if you want to. When you hit level 50 you need team up if you want the "best" shinnies.
Both OP and you have valid points. Crafting is far far behind on this game it's been pointed out on every major network concerning games out there and yet it's still not been improved. EVEN if they made the crafted XII gear BoP some people would complain because this fleet system is just terrible.
It's terrible because it's entirely too difficult to build and maintain a fleet of only 5 people with limited time people have to play, and it's terrible because things like building resources to keep the stores open are not items that are handled by the game rather than the fleet commander or officers directly. So no one can even take time off from the game without the fleet falling under completely.
Take for example people in the military, if they are called away to duty like in a war or skirmish and they happened to be the person in charge of the fleet resources and they had to leave without saying anything (which actually often happens in all mmo's ) then that fleet is pretty much screwed until someone else can take it up.
This system needs some better brains involved in tweaking it.
If they improved the crafting and the reputation rewards to match the fleet rewards we'd see fewer tiny fleets struggling to get to the end just for the gear (which is actually a good thing). That's my 2 cents.
The problem isn't that people are unable to find a fleet to join, the problem is that the game doesn't offer much to people preferring to play in loose groups.
Disagree. I'm one of those "loose group" players. I have neither the desire nor inclination to run or join a mega-fleet. Too many people make my brain hurt.
This has not stopped me from acquiring all the fleet gear I could possibly want. Granted, "building a T5 fleet by yourself" is not for everyone, but there are ways.
Usually, guilds make organizing oneself in a game easier. They offer support and a social enviroment while their members play the game together hoping to achieve that ultra rare loot. Besides organization, a non-aligned player in a public group could get the same loot drop as guild players.
Strictly speaking, you can get all the best stuff without a real fleet. Admittedly, you still have to play the Fleet system, just as you must still play the Rep system, but you don't HAVE to saddle yourself with the baggage of a fleet with all those other people.
The problem is that people want everything handed to them. They're not willing to work the angles to get what they want. They see an obstacle to what they want, and rather than figuring out how to demolish that obstacle with high-explosives, they just sit down and cry.
Take for example people in the military, if they are called away to duty like in a war or skirmish and they happened to be the person in charge of the fleet resources and they had to leave without saying anything (which actually often happens in all mmo's ) then that fleet is pretty much screwed until someone else can take it up.
So you've got players in the military, yet they don't understand how to manage a chain of command? That seems a bit incredible. If your players were military players, they'd understand how to keep a functioning chain of command in the event that someone is killed.
I have yet to see mentioned in this thread the use or availability of the NOP and public service channels. I am in a small fleet of 8 and we have a tier 4 starbase and tier 2 on the other holdings and everyone in my fleet has obtained all the Elite gear and consoles and Boffs etc by asking for invites on the NOP and public service channels. There are many large tier 5 fleets with completed holdings that will grant you free access. Granted for the solo player with no fleet credits and no fleet provisions you are out of luck. But a Tier 1 fleet that has provisions and it's members have donated and they have fleet credits can have access to all the top gear in the game.
So what if fleets are OP? ......Join one. The only mistake I think Cryptic has made is that perhaps less people would want to start their own fleets when there are already a bunch of high tier fleets to try and join. I would only seek to join an existing at this point rather than reinvest all that time and resources with a new group of people.
I think this is a problem. You don't join a fleet because you like them, or want to play with them.
You join them because you have all the good stuff that way.
You don't even make a fleet with your friends, so you can play with them, you join a bigger fleet that will not care about you as much as you care about your friends.
It's like "joining" the Rom reputation, it's based on gameplay purpose over anything else.
For the fleet, you are a resource, you are the one spending and grinding to make it grow. For the player, it's a big store.
If they would just write some code that made project cost relative to membership size. Cryptic should look at it from a single player perspictive. They need to ask how much is too much for one player to contribute? Is 10K dil per member per project too much? How many Doffs is too much for one player to contribute? Come up with a challenging but fair about of items and Dil and Doffs a single player must contribute and calculate the total cost by the number of members in a fleet. The cons to this idea would be large fleets with many members that are inactive or will not contribute. They would have a large project cost and members that are too lazy to contribute. Fleet leaders would need to constantly cull the herd to keep their projects cost manageable. They would also need to increase the minimum amout of players needed to start a new fleet from 5 to 7 and once the starbase is started you would need to maintain a minimum amount of active members. If you fall below the minimum you can no longer slot new projects. It should also detect Alt toons. This would prevent Fleets of one player. So the lowest upgrade/project cost would be figured at base of 7 members. This way it is obtainable for smaller fleets but too expensive for one player alone to do.
I have yet to see mentioned in this thread the use or availability of the NOP and public service channels. I am in a small fleet of 8 and we have a tier 4 starbase and tier 2 on the other holdings and everyone in my fleet has obtained all the Elite gear and consoles and Boffs etc by asking for invites on the NOP and public service channels. There are many large tier 5 fleets with completed holdings that will grant you free access. Granted for the solo player with no fleet credits and no fleet provisions you are out of luck. But a Tier 1 fleet that has provisions and it's members have donated and they have fleet credits can have access to all the top gear in the game.
Then you are not looking hard enough since it has been mentioned already.
The duty of small fleets is to get each Fleet Holding to Tier 1 and run provisions. Then inform the Fleet Members of the various free services available to them that will grant them Fleet Equipment that won't be available to their fleet for years or never. The only thing not available to small fleets is Fleet Ships, but fleet members can temporarily leave their fleet to get them.
You can also join "NoP Public Service" channel where invites are given out freely to anyone who asks (so long as the right people are online). There should be a thread about it somewhere here on the forums.
I dont really understand the problem. Any Fleet with T1 in everything -which is really easy to accomplish with 5 to 10ppl- has access to T1-T5 content (except ships).
How?
Run provision projects and let other fleets invite you to their bases, were you can shop at their vendors.
The most renown channel for that is NoP Public Service, but there are others out there.
And thats why I dont understand the complain, since the only thing requiring a big fleet are fleet ships. I know, it has been mentioned before, but it seems you dont see how it pulverizes your premise.
I dont really understand the problem. Any Fleet with T1 in everything -which is really easy to accomplish with 5 to 10ppl- has access to T1-T5 content (except ships).
How?
Run provision projects and let other fleets invite you to their bases, were you can shop at their vendors.
The most renown channel for that is NoP Public Service, but there are others out there.
And thats why I dont understand the complain, since the only thing requiring a big fleet are fleet ships. I know, it has been mentioned before, but it seems you dont see how it pulverizes your premise.
^ This.
The whole it's ' the big guys' holding the little un's back thing is a bit over-exaggerated when there are so many fleets out there that allow people free access to their stores
I understand the frustration of a small fleet moving along ever so slowly with the fleet tiers compared to a large fleet.
However, taking/asking for a shorter path does not make it the right path. Just like in RL, it often takes effort to achieve something.
And when you achieve that something (which took effort), you savour it far longer and intenser than when you get instant gratification.
If you know you have a small fleet, you know it will take longer (and more effort) to complete the higher tier projects. So this fact you either have to:
(a) accept, or;
(b) see if you can grow a little.
If I was in a small fleet myself, I would be damn proud of reaching T5. I think it earns more respect from yourself, your fleet members and from the community ("those guys did that with that size?!?").
And as far as the fleet gear goes, I agree with several posts in this thread. Plebs... ermmm... Fleet members spend more. Right or wrong, that's just simple "kapitalist" economics :rolleyes:.
I know it doesn't solve anything, but I just wanted to put in how I feel about this.
One of the problems I am very much aware of in this game... Alts. As in "they seriously expect me to grind all these rep projects and fleet projects across 10 alts? Who has time for that?"
Simply put: Very few.
I have two main toons and a bunch of "other" toons I play for fun. The two main toons are maxed out with fleet-gear and rep gear to a point... I'm finished with Omega and pushing top-T on the rest.
The others? I grind them casually. One is entirely fleet gear and will be nothing but. Another, a combination of fleet gear and exchange items. Special-packs for the win.
One is up to T3 in Romulan, another is slowly picking away at the Tholian stuff.
To me this is much more fun than trying to max out 10-20 alts across all reputation bands and fleet tiers.
I think people need to step back and realize this game can be plenty fun to play if you don't have maximum top-end-everything. Hell I routinely clean house in ISE with ships that are not UltraPurple DPS Barges. So do other people.
Take a deep breath, realize that the Top Tier stuff is nice but you don't NEED ALL OF IT to enjoy the game.
Suddenly, small fleets become more fun. You can casually grind here and there... have the folks at NoP help you get other items... And you can work on whichever reps are the most FUN for you to play.
As far as small fleets being completely screwed over, one of the first fleets to get to Tier 5 Shipyard was a 2 man fleet if I recall correctly. It does not matter about the size of the fleet, but how many active contributors that are in the fleet. Sometimes the only reason why a Fleet is doing so well is because of just one or two people and the others are just along for the ride.
I understand that you want everything handed to you on a shinny platter...But then again if you want the nice shinnys dont you think that you would have to work for them i mean really work for them....If you want things handed to you go play WoW....There all you have to do is grind gear and thats it.....Boring lame........Where in STO you grind gear but the end result is a accomplishment in doing so....
Ground advantage goes to Embassy and Spire Kits vs Anything available anywhere else and access to a DOff officer buff over others.
Space advantage goes to Fleet Ships, Atmospheric Training and again the advantage of a DOff officer.
Get it through your head, Cryptic WANTS you to join megafleets. That's ALWAYS been very, very clear. Megafleets serve many tasks for Cryptic, they promote higher retention, they promote lockbox and lobi sales by making it so if one in a fleet gets such a ship, everyone in the fleet is more likely to be exposed to it and want it. Why do you think you feel pushed to join a large fleet? Its not by chance, its intentional.
The problem is not that large fleets are OP, it's that members of small fleets have to work and grind harder. Also, there are fleets advertising on the forums for free access to all the best gear. Your complaint is invalid.
Let me second this! There simply are no grounds to these complaints. There are ample fleets advertising in the forums or in chat that will allow you to come to their fleet and purchase from their stores (as long as your fleet has the provisions to cover it) and there are even fleets that will allow you to join their fleet just to purchase a ship (they want some remuneration, of course... TANSTAAFL, after all). More to the point none of those "fleet goodies" are game changing. I've gone against fleet T5 ships/capts in vessels outfitted to the gills with every "fleet goodie" you can imagine in simple T4 ships with basic uncommon/rare exchange items and mopped the floor with 'em. Moreover that really only matters in PvP contests (and if you're all about PvP and you are NOT in one of the large, active PvP fleets then you're a fool and an idiot and bound to come to a bad end). In PvE top level gear is even less important. I have a Klingon character who only recently made T5, has just started the Reps, has a T4 Vorcha with standard uncommon/rare gear (mostly from drops) and he holds his own JUST fine in Elite STF's. In short as the above poster said... "Your complaint is invalid". :rolleyes:
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
As one of the leaders of a small fleet, I can understand what the OP is talking about. Many in our fleet, as well as myself, have used the NoP Public Service channel to get gear we don't have access to yet. However, there are some buffs that fleets get. So I understand.
It would be nice if the game would give discounts to small fleets. However, that would cut into their profits. I know of a lot of members of smaller fleets that pay real money for dilithium to fill fleet projects.
I believe that a good thing that will help small fleets is to cut the cost of fleet projects for smaller fleets, but extend the cool down of the projects for them. It will end up taking the same amount of time for a fleet starting out with a lot of people in it to get to T5, but will cost less so they can actually afford to do it.
As the fleet grows past certain members, the cost of projects goes up, and the timer goes down. This will help to even out things. Plus it will help the smaller fleets to grow as they start getting bigger, and players that don't want to put the work in only want to join a fleet that already has the work done for them.
Yet, like I mentioned, it would cut into the companies profits.
I do love STO, and some of the changes being made. But, business is business. Companies need to make money, and if something makes it, the company will keep it.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
I'm all for forming groups having parties of large numbers and just all around community progression, but Fleets OP status has got to be addressed!
I understand it takes a lot to get a T5 Station that your fleet can call home and that there should be rewards for accomplishing such a feet but to allow players of large and active fleets so much power over the casual or less player is ridicules.
I participate in fleets myself. I belong to one very small fleet and one fairly active fleet. The active fleet is moving along with projects the only thing holding them up is the Dilithium requirements. The very small fleet is lucky to have a T1 anything.
The advantages given with the Fleet system just don?t seem fair in the least. I can have an extra Doff slot over others, better BOffs and Kits and the only place to get ultra rare gear in game. I know there was lot of talk about Fleet sizes playing a part on projects yet I have not seen anything in effect and even still that doesn?t address the soloist.
How does a player compete with advanced Fleet players? I used to think that Fleets were around to make organizing Fleet Actions and STFs easier but am realizing they are only there for the elitists to score the best gear so they can keep their foot on the little guys necks with ease.
This is the ONLY reason fleets exist. The hardcore, live-in-moms-basement, never go to work gamers needed more than just premade groups for stfs. They now get op'd equipment and ships compared to the average player. And it doesn't just affect stfs, where the odd player out won't get hardly any kills, but it spills right over into pvp, making it even more pointless to bother if you aren't playing 12 hours a day with the occasional meal break and sleep. While most of us are at work or in bed, the hardcores are still playing, progressing faster than anyone else and getting stupid powerful rewards for it.
Yes, there needs to be an overhaul, but not to the fleet system. It needs to be done to the pvp and pve system, such as how queues are divided up (because, right now, it isn't), how the coring system works, and, in the case of pvp, how matches are determined with regards to teams. We STILL have pugs being thrown against premades, and fleet premades are getting worse.
The day fleets are nerfed is the day I quit STO. I joined STO because 1. I love Star Trek. 2. I love teamwork. I don't understand why anyone doesn't want to help on a team unless they're just selfish. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I understand bad experiences with fleet, the first one i joined was run by 4 year old idiots. It's called asking the community what fleets have their TRIBBLE together and asking for an invite. It makes sense that people who work on a team should be able to cream the lone wolf.
This is the ONLY reason fleets exist. The hardcore, live-in-moms-basement, never go to work gamers needed more than just premade groups for stfs. They now get op'd equipment and ships compared to the average player. And it doesn't just affect stfs, where the odd player out won't get hardly any kills, but it spills right over into pvp, making it even more pointless to bother if you aren't playing 12 hours a day with the occasional meal break and sleep. While most of us are at work or in bed, the hardcores are still playing, progressing faster than anyone else and getting stupid powerful rewards for it.
Yes, there needs to be an overhaul, but not to the fleet system. It needs to be done to the pvp and pve system, such as how queues are divided up (because, right now, it isn't), how the coring system works, and, in the case of pvp, how matches are determined with regards to teams. We STILL have pugs being thrown against premades, and fleet premades are getting worse.
There is really nothing correct about this post.
I am in a large casual fleet. Be in the fleet for a week or two and you get access to provisions regardless of how much you contribute. The fleet is made up of a handful of serious players and a huge amount of players (like myself) that might log on a couple days a week or go 3 weeks without logging on at all.
If inactivity causes you to get kicked (for most of us that takes 6 weeks), you are mailed a 'get back into the fleet free' card which will get you back in with the same rank you had before.
Since we are large we get through projects pretty fast although most of the people aren't on with any consistency.
Also, most of the fleet gear people are crying for isn't better than the stuff you get outside of the fleet.
I only equip the Shields and RCS consoles on certain ships.
Also, most of the fleet gear people are crying for isn't better than the stuff you get outside of the fleet.
I only equip the Shields and RCS consoles on certain ships.
Elite Fleet Shields
Elite Fleet Deflectors (namely due to the cooldown reduction on Science abilities)
Spire TAC Consoles of the CritH or CritD variety
Elite Fleet Warp / Singularity Cores (Dil Mine)
Elite Fleet Warp / Singularity Cores (Spire)
Active Ground DOFF Slot (Spire)
Active Space DOFF Slot (Spire)
Dil Mine ENG Consoles (several kinds)
Fleet Romulan Embassy Science Consoles
Fleet Romulan Embassy BOFFs
Advanced Fleet Weapons
Elite Fleet Weapons, esp. the Elite Disruptors
Fleet Ground Kits (Embassy)
Fleet Ground Kits (Spire)
Elite Fleet Personal Shields
Elite Fleet Ground Armor
Elite Fleet Ground Weapons
And because I'm going to go that direction:
Fleet Ships
And I'm sure I'm forgetting some of the options Fleets have from the stores. There's varying degrees of usefulness to be had in all of these, most esp. the space related ones, and some of them are quite essential. Not sure how you missed those OP TAC Spire Consoles. Even the generic dmg types bring the bonus to Mk XI Rare levels, which is a huge step up from before in terms of generic dmg consoles, on top of either the CritH or CritD mods.
Some of these things completely overshadow what is available via the Rep or Mission Rewards.
I guess the OP didn't know that this game is about being in a large fleet if you want any rewards for playing the game. Playing solo or being in a small fleet mean's nothing to them. they could care less about you. People in large fleets probably spend more money and that's all they care about. You just have to not care about having the best gear in the game or quit. That's your only option. Its never going to change. That's why so many players only login to see new content and when its done leave. And that seems to be alright to them too.
This is the ONLY reason fleets exist. The hardcore, live-in-moms-basement, never go to work gamers needed more than just premade groups for stfs. They now get op'd equipment and ships compared to the average player. And it doesn't just affect stfs, where the odd player out won't get hardly any kills, but it spills right over into pvp, making it even more pointless to bother if you aren't playing 12 hours a day with the occasional meal break and sleep. While most of us are at work or in bed, the hardcores are still playing, progressing faster than anyone else and getting stupid powerful rewards for it.
Wow .. just .. wow
So everyone in a fleet is basically a stay at home hermit because they work towards unlocking things as a team :rolleyes:
The problem isn't that people are unable to find a fleet to join, the problem is that the game doesn't offer much to people preferring to play in loose groups. Step by step "competative" gear for non-fleet players has been removed from the game and fleet holdings without a doubt hold the best gear available. This is, of course, to steer more people to hit the immensely high paywalls.
Usually, guilds make organizing oneself in a game easier. They offer support and a social enviroment while their members play the game together hoping to achieve that ultra rare loot. Besides organization, a non-aligned player in a public group could get the same loot drop as guild players. But that kind of dynamic is missing from STO. You don't "play the game", you "work" to earn the best gear which lies behind paywalls. There are no dynamic drops of any kind in this game, you don't run STFs or fleet actions to have a chance to find a shiny, you run them to earn currency to buy the exact item that is superior to other items. You can plan out exactly when you get what item and what happens when you log into the game. And most of the times it's exactly NOTHING until those bars are filled.
and then again, there are people out there who have had repeated bad experiences with the elitests in fleets. I'm not saying gimme gimme. I am saying that there SHOULD be a way to acuire something at least approaching on par. Granted, I will never fly a fleet whatever refit, but the ability to craft the armor/turn consoles would be nice.
Comments
What use are fancy stores if you can't afford to buy any of it?
Usually, guilds make organizing oneself in a game easier. They offer support and a social enviroment while their members play the game together hoping to achieve that ultra rare loot. Besides organization, a non-aligned player in a public group could get the same loot drop as guild players. But that kind of dynamic is missing from STO. You don't "play the game", you "work" to earn the best gear which lies behind paywalls. There are no dynamic drops of any kind in this game, you don't run STFs or fleet actions to have a chance to find a shiny, you run them to earn currency to buy the exact item that is superior to other items. You can plan out exactly when you get what item and what happens when you log into the game. And most of the times it's exactly NOTHING until those bars are filled.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
This showed up early in WoW when people complained that "only the uber people can get purples... that's not fair!!!"
Now WoW gives them out like candy, and reportedly, WoW has been bleeding customers like crazy.
Those people who asked for this likely don't even realize that it was getting what they asked for that ruined their experience.
This was one of the brilliant aspects of EQ in the old days- only a VERY few were at the very top... because only a VERY few would invest in getting there. The rest of us, we were somewhere below the top, but you know what? That meant we always had something to work for - something to get... something to DO every night when we logged in.
Analogy: The game doesn't need to force everyone to bake their own bread... but it would be really nice if it had all of the ingredients for bread in there - so that the people who wanted to take the time to make it COULD make it.
Will this mean that the game would have all sorts of levels of "haves and have nots?" YUP!!!
But you know what the difference is?
In EQ, it was the UBER people who burned out and ended up with nothing to do - or hiding from their guild on odd nights because they didn't want to raid or farm (I CAN'T possibly be the ONLY one who would get tells from out of the blue... "Hey, it's so and so - don't tell anyone it's me... I just want to group tonight") - while the rest of us BELOW that tier had stuff to do every day that we WANTED to do...
Where in today's games - EVERYONE runs out of stuff to do, and quickly... In today's game, there is NO home baked bread, and the supply of Walmart bread runs out a few months after you buy it.... no bread for anybody.
STO is already there, and has been for a long time. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but if this game had been anything but Trek, I would have walked years ago. Yet somehow, people still want it even easier than it already is. Amazing.
/endrant
Both OP and you have valid points. Crafting is far far behind on this game it's been pointed out on every major network concerning games out there and yet it's still not been improved. EVEN if they made the crafted XII gear BoP some people would complain because this fleet system is just terrible.
It's terrible because it's entirely too difficult to build and maintain a fleet of only 5 people with limited time people have to play, and it's terrible because things like building resources to keep the stores open are not items that are handled by the game rather than the fleet commander or officers directly. So no one can even take time off from the game without the fleet falling under completely.
Take for example people in the military, if they are called away to duty like in a war or skirmish and they happened to be the person in charge of the fleet resources and they had to leave without saying anything (which actually often happens in all mmo's ) then that fleet is pretty much screwed until someone else can take it up.
This system needs some better brains involved in tweaking it.
If they improved the crafting and the reputation rewards to match the fleet rewards we'd see fewer tiny fleets struggling to get to the end just for the gear (which is actually a good thing). That's my 2 cents.
This has not stopped me from acquiring all the fleet gear I could possibly want. Granted, "building a T5 fleet by yourself" is not for everyone, but there are ways.
Strictly speaking, you can get all the best stuff without a real fleet. Admittedly, you still have to play the Fleet system, just as you must still play the Rep system, but you don't HAVE to saddle yourself with the baggage of a fleet with all those other people.
The problem is that people want everything handed to them. They're not willing to work the angles to get what they want. They see an obstacle to what they want, and rather than figuring out how to demolish that obstacle with high-explosives, they just sit down and cry.
So you've got players in the military, yet they don't understand how to manage a chain of command? That seems a bit incredible. If your players were military players, they'd understand how to keep a functioning chain of command in the event that someone is killed.
You join them because you have all the good stuff that way.
You don't even make a fleet with your friends, so you can play with them, you join a bigger fleet that will not care about you as much as you care about your friends.
It's like "joining" the Rom reputation, it's based on gameplay purpose over anything else.
For the fleet, you are a resource, you are the one spending and grinding to make it grow. For the player, it's a big store.
And I think it's bad.
[sarcasm]Brilliant idea.[/sarcasm]
Step 1: 493 players leave fleet temporarily
Step 2: 7 (now the only fleet members) players queue up "small-fleet-scaled" projects
Step 3: 493 other players trade all contributions to 7 "mule" players
Step 4: "Mule" players rank entire Fleet holding to Tier 5 in a week
Step 5: PROFIT!
:rolleyes:
Then you are not looking hard enough since it has been mentioned already.
How?
Run provision projects and let other fleets invite you to their bases, were you can shop at their vendors.
The most renown channel for that is NoP Public Service, but there are others out there.
And thats why I dont understand the complain, since the only thing requiring a big fleet are fleet ships. I know, it has been mentioned before, but it seems you dont see how it pulverizes your premise.
^ This.
The whole it's ' the big guys' holding the little un's back thing is a bit over-exaggerated when there are so many fleets out there that allow people free access to their stores
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
However, taking/asking for a shorter path does not make it the right path. Just like in RL, it often takes effort to achieve something.
And when you achieve that something (which took effort), you savour it far longer and intenser than when you get instant gratification.
If you know you have a small fleet, you know it will take longer (and more effort) to complete the higher tier projects. So this fact you either have to:
If I was in a small fleet myself, I would be damn proud of reaching T5. I think it earns more respect from yourself, your fleet members and from the community ("those guys did that with that size?!?").
And as far as the fleet gear goes, I agree with several posts in this thread. Plebs... ermmm... Fleet members spend more. Right or wrong, that's just simple "kapitalist" economics :rolleyes:.
I know it doesn't solve anything, but I just wanted to put in how I feel about this.
Simply put: Very few.
I have two main toons and a bunch of "other" toons I play for fun. The two main toons are maxed out with fleet-gear and rep gear to a point... I'm finished with Omega and pushing top-T on the rest.
The others? I grind them casually. One is entirely fleet gear and will be nothing but. Another, a combination of fleet gear and exchange items. Special-packs for the win.
One is up to T3 in Romulan, another is slowly picking away at the Tholian stuff.
To me this is much more fun than trying to max out 10-20 alts across all reputation bands and fleet tiers.
I think people need to step back and realize this game can be plenty fun to play if you don't have maximum top-end-everything. Hell I routinely clean house in ISE with ships that are not UltraPurple DPS Barges. So do other people.
Take a deep breath, realize that the Top Tier stuff is nice but you don't NEED ALL OF IT to enjoy the game.
Suddenly, small fleets become more fun. You can casually grind here and there... have the folks at NoP help you get other items... And you can work on whichever reps are the most FUN for you to play.
Well, just not all the fleet ships.
A small fleet can get to tier one or two shipyard easily enough.
Tier three is a bit harder bit also doable.
That gets you a lot of nice ships.
And there has to be some reward for getting to tier 5.
Stop fretting over the destination and enjoy the ride, there are enough goodies on the way.
Get it through your head, Cryptic WANTS you to join megafleets. That's ALWAYS been very, very clear. Megafleets serve many tasks for Cryptic, they promote higher retention, they promote lockbox and lobi sales by making it so if one in a fleet gets such a ship, everyone in the fleet is more likely to be exposed to it and want it. Why do you think you feel pushed to join a large fleet? Its not by chance, its intentional.
I've done that many times and I'm still bad at the game. Your point is invalid.
Is intenser a word?...
Let me second this! There simply are no grounds to these complaints. There are ample fleets advertising in the forums or in chat that will allow you to come to their fleet and purchase from their stores (as long as your fleet has the provisions to cover it) and there are even fleets that will allow you to join their fleet just to purchase a ship (they want some remuneration, of course... TANSTAAFL, after all). More to the point none of those "fleet goodies" are game changing. I've gone against fleet T5 ships/capts in vessels outfitted to the gills with every "fleet goodie" you can imagine in simple T4 ships with basic uncommon/rare exchange items and mopped the floor with 'em. Moreover that really only matters in PvP contests (and if you're all about PvP and you are NOT in one of the large, active PvP fleets then you're a fool and an idiot and bound to come to a bad end). In PvE top level gear is even less important. I have a Klingon character who only recently made T5, has just started the Reps, has a T4 Vorcha with standard uncommon/rare gear (mostly from drops) and he holds his own JUST fine in Elite STF's. In short as the above poster said... "Your complaint is invalid". :rolleyes:
It would be nice if the game would give discounts to small fleets. However, that would cut into their profits. I know of a lot of members of smaller fleets that pay real money for dilithium to fill fleet projects.
I believe that a good thing that will help small fleets is to cut the cost of fleet projects for smaller fleets, but extend the cool down of the projects for them. It will end up taking the same amount of time for a fleet starting out with a lot of people in it to get to T5, but will cost less so they can actually afford to do it.
As the fleet grows past certain members, the cost of projects goes up, and the timer goes down. This will help to even out things. Plus it will help the smaller fleets to grow as they start getting bigger, and players that don't want to put the work in only want to join a fleet that already has the work done for them.
Yet, like I mentioned, it would cut into the companies profits.
I do love STO, and some of the changes being made. But, business is business. Companies need to make money, and if something makes it, the company will keep it.
This is the ONLY reason fleets exist. The hardcore, live-in-moms-basement, never go to work gamers needed more than just premade groups for stfs. They now get op'd equipment and ships compared to the average player. And it doesn't just affect stfs, where the odd player out won't get hardly any kills, but it spills right over into pvp, making it even more pointless to bother if you aren't playing 12 hours a day with the occasional meal break and sleep. While most of us are at work or in bed, the hardcores are still playing, progressing faster than anyone else and getting stupid powerful rewards for it.
Yes, there needs to be an overhaul, but not to the fleet system. It needs to be done to the pvp and pve system, such as how queues are divided up (because, right now, it isn't), how the coring system works, and, in the case of pvp, how matches are determined with regards to teams. We STILL have pugs being thrown against premades, and fleet premades are getting worse.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
There is really nothing correct about this post.
I am in a large casual fleet. Be in the fleet for a week or two and you get access to provisions regardless of how much you contribute. The fleet is made up of a handful of serious players and a huge amount of players (like myself) that might log on a couple days a week or go 3 weeks without logging on at all.
If inactivity causes you to get kicked (for most of us that takes 6 weeks), you are mailed a 'get back into the fleet free' card which will get you back in with the same rank you had before.
Since we are large we get through projects pretty fast although most of the people aren't on with any consistency.
Also, most of the fleet gear people are crying for isn't better than the stuff you get outside of the fleet.
I only equip the Shields and RCS consoles on certain ships.
Elite Fleet Shields
Elite Fleet Deflectors (namely due to the cooldown reduction on Science abilities)
Spire TAC Consoles of the CritH or CritD variety
Elite Fleet Warp / Singularity Cores (Dil Mine)
Elite Fleet Warp / Singularity Cores (Spire)
Active Ground DOFF Slot (Spire)
Active Space DOFF Slot (Spire)
Dil Mine ENG Consoles (several kinds)
Fleet Romulan Embassy Science Consoles
Fleet Romulan Embassy BOFFs
Advanced Fleet Weapons
Elite Fleet Weapons, esp. the Elite Disruptors
Fleet Ground Kits (Embassy)
Fleet Ground Kits (Spire)
Elite Fleet Personal Shields
Elite Fleet Ground Armor
Elite Fleet Ground Weapons
And because I'm going to go that direction:
Fleet Ships
And I'm sure I'm forgetting some of the options Fleets have from the stores. There's varying degrees of usefulness to be had in all of these, most esp. the space related ones, and some of them are quite essential. Not sure how you missed those OP TAC Spire Consoles. Even the generic dmg types bring the bonus to Mk XI Rare levels, which is a huge step up from before in terms of generic dmg consoles, on top of either the CritH or CritD mods.
Some of these things completely overshadow what is available via the Rep or Mission Rewards.
Wow .. just .. wow
So everyone in a fleet is basically a stay at home hermit because they work towards unlocking things as a team :rolleyes:
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
and then again, there are people out there who have had repeated bad experiences with the elitests in fleets. I'm not saying gimme gimme. I am saying that there SHOULD be a way to acuire something at least approaching on par. Granted, I will never fly a fleet whatever refit, but the ability to craft the armor/turn consoles would be nice.