Threads like this pretty much destroy my will to play the game. Why even bother pretending to be a useful team member or spend a single moment trying to improve my ship when there's people putting out this much damage with what seems like a completely ordinary setup? How can I feel any sense of accomplishment whatsoever for achieving a personal best when there's other players doing so much better that they dismiss my best effort as "you have to be really bad to score that low"? Whatever I'm doing wrong, it is absolutely massive, on the order of magnitude of newbies who don't realize they need to increase their power to weapons. And I don't even want to pursue learning from these people because the level of hyper-elitism is absolutely disgusting.
Threads like this pretty much destroy my will to play the game. Why even bother pretending to be a useful team member or spend a single moment trying to improve my ship when there's people putting out this much damage with what seems like a completely ordinary setup? How can I feel any sense of accomplishment whatsoever for achieving a personal best when there's other players doing so much better that they dismiss my best effort as "you have to be really bad to score that low"? Whatever I'm doing wrong, it is absolutely massive, on the order of magnitude of newbies who don't realize they need to increase their power to weapons. And I don't even want to pursue learning from these people because the level of hyper-elitism is absolutely disgusting.
Meh.
As someone who started playing the game not even two months ago and run STFs with Jena on a regular basis, I can tell you that I don't see the hyper-elitism that you are mentioning.
Actually, Jena has helped me a ton by giving me countless advice on ship builds and strategy to improve my setups, performance and strategies. I'm pretty sure most of the min-max players are aware that past (insert amount of dps) is just overkill but its what they love to do, and most of the folks that I've talked to have been super helpful and not making you feel like part of the non-elite-scrub-pleb.
My recommendation: come spend some time on the redditchat channel or other community channels
Threads like this pretty much destroy my will to play the game. Why even bother pretending to be a useful team member or spend a single moment trying to improve my ship when there's people putting out this much damage with what seems like a completely ordinary setup? How can I feel any sense of accomplishment whatsoever for achieving a personal best when there's other players doing so much better that they dismiss my best effort as "you have to be really bad to score that low"? Whatever I'm doing wrong, it is absolutely massive, on the order of magnitude of newbies who don't realize they need to increase their power to weapons. And I don't even want to pursue learning from these people because the level of hyper-elitism is absolutely disgusting.
Meh.
I'm sensing a mixture of genuine sadness, and just plain jealousy. Me, I just stand in awe of those people. Sure, as an Engineer, I don't have access to Tactical Initiative, and I can't Go Down Fighting and all; but still, it's these pilots themselves that really make it work. And they are not 'ruining' it for anyone: they're giving you a glimpse of what's out there; that's neither 'hyper-elitism,' nor 'absolutely disgusting.'
Sure, your own sense of accomplishment might get shattered when seeing such numbers. But how is that their fault?! You can hardly expect them to not post their results, simply because your ego can't handle it.
You wanna get 30k too?! Or at least get better, here's a freebie tip: stop auto-cycling everything: learn timing. From my own humble experience, I realized there's already a lot to be gained from doing just that alone.
Threads like this pretty much destroy my will to play the game. Why even bother pretending to be a useful team member or spend a single moment trying to improve my ship when there's people putting out this much damage with what seems like a completely ordinary setup? How can I feel any sense of accomplishment whatsoever for achieving a personal best when there's other players doing so much better that they dismiss my best effort as "you have to be really bad to score that low"? Whatever I'm doing wrong, it is absolutely massive, on the order of magnitude of newbies who don't realize they need to increase their power to weapons. And I don't even want to pursue learning from these people because the level of hyper-elitism is absolutely disgusting.
Meh.
Don't lend this to much thought, or credence. Achieving this is like tying at tic tac toe. At the time they were created STO was a very different than it is now. You really can't expect any more from Elite STF's than we are getting.
You can see the design changes that have been made in events as they moved past the Borg storyline.
As you can see from the info in this thread it is a pretty straightforward process. If you want to do it, do it. If not, don't really worry over it there are PLENTY of ways to enjoy STO.
As a final note, even using evasive maneuvers has a DPS value. Changing your power settings by some method before using evasive maneuvers has a different DPS value. Doing those things at the proper time has a third DPS value.
Knowing those things in a set piece battle is trivial. ESTF's are set piece. DPS Profits.
Cheers and happy flying.
EDIT: So just continue having fun. If you're not having fun without a ship like this, just continue to ask for help and I'm sure you can make one. I'm confident you'll be fine.
Threads like this pretty much destroy my will to play the game. Why even bother pretending to be a useful team member or spend a single moment trying to improve my ship when there's people putting out this much damage with what seems like a completely ordinary setup? How can I feel any sense of accomplishment whatsoever for achieving a personal best when there's other players doing so much better that they dismiss my best effort as "you have to be really bad to score that low"? Whatever I'm doing wrong, it is absolutely massive, on the order of magnitude of newbies who don't realize they need to increase their power to weapons. And I don't even want to pursue learning from these people because the level of hyper-elitism is absolutely disgusting.
As you can see from the info in this thread it is a pretty straightforward process. If you want to do it, do it. If not, don't really worry over it there are PLENTY of ways to enjoy STO.
In my opinion (and my opinion is the only one that should matter on this, unlike everything else I talk about where my opinion does not matter in the least)...what Thissler said.
Threads like this pretty much destroy my will to play the game. Why even bother pretending to be a useful team member or spend a single moment trying to improve my ship when there's people putting out this much damage with what seems like a completely ordinary setup? How can I feel any sense of accomplishment whatsoever for achieving a personal best when there's other players doing so much better that they dismiss my best effort as "you have to be really bad to score that low"? Whatever I'm doing wrong, it is absolutely massive, on the order of magnitude of newbies who don't realize they need to increase their power to weapons. And I don't even want to pursue learning from these people because the level of hyper-elitism is absolutely disgusting.
Meh.
No reason to feel down. 95% of this game's content can be successfully completed by simply knowing what to do and when to do it (and not being a complete derptard). And while all these DPS e-peen contests as of late make it look like there's nothing more important than roflstomping all NPCs in a nanosecond, don't let anyone fool or bully you about it.
In any case, let's hope that the devs get rid of this ridiculous overcapping mechanic as soon as possible.
Science for the win. / Czechoslovak Fleet 1st Division
... yeah coz no-one has ever used tbr before to get extra dps from a ship........
ive personally not flown a bastion sarcasim detecor but well done, and this just furthers my claim that pretty much ANY teir 5 ship can hit 30k if the pilot knows what they are doing.
oh and just a suggestion, drop aux to damp and run a second dem, and if you want a better GDF use BAD sheilds, im sure ive told you this before
Sure. A no auxillary tbr is kinda sorta manageable. But the push can be very detrimental.
I never thought of the tbr doff too keep targets...there plus it pulsing everything...
I should've put 2 and 2 together but I never gave it the thought it deserved
And no recluses, so beta stacking wasn't excessive by any means - might actually parse higher with recluses.
You don't need a Recluse to Beta stack, any hangar will work. There was a bug created with Sphere of Influence. The three piece Obelisk set bonus applies a copy of EPtX to all hangar items. However, it goes beyond that, working for any hangar item...even if the set isn't equip.
Hangar items will receive all non-weapon modifying non-healing buffs at the time of deployment. This is most noticeable with Attack Pattern Beta, as each hangar fighter will apply their own personal always on copy of Beta. However, they will also pick up Attack Pattern Alpha, Directed Energy Modulation, and Emergency Power to Weapons, providing those abilities were active when they were first spawned. There is an identical bug in Ground combat with Security Escorts.
Note that those pets prolly parse 3K per hanger themselves, and also the zemok build = gain dps from exotic dmg and high aux power (versus A2B which drains Aux).
Tractor Beam Repulsors does not have a damage increase from high Auxiliary power levels.
Stop trolling legit posts pl. Think about it before posting ...10K lol - u need to fly pretty badly to get that!
You DPS club players are all the same, using whatever's broken to get your damage/second as high as possible. Then you come in here with this elitist attitude acting like you are better than the rest of us. Newsflash, you aren't, and your damage will drop back down to correct levels once abilities are fixed correctly.
I'm sensing a mixture of genuine sadness, and just plain jealousy. Me, I just stand in awe of those people. Sure, as an Engineer, I don't have access to Tactical Initiative, and I can't Go Down Fighting and all; but still, it's these pilots themselves that really make it work. And they are not 'ruining' it for anyone: they're giving you a glimpse of what's out there; that's neither 'hyper-elitism,' nor 'absolutely disgusting.'
Sure, your own sense of accomplishment might get shattered when seeing such numbers. But how is that their fault?! You can hardly expect them to not post their results, simply because your ego can't handle it.
You wanna get 30k too?! Or at least get better, here's a freebie tip: stop auto-cycling everything: learn timing. From my own humble experience, I realized there's already a lot to be gained from doing just that alone.
Is there a guide on timing? I just spam everutgi.g with
Y cannons...minus "trying to get gdf" on the first cube and popping attack.pattetn alpha/tactical team at the first group
Threads like this pretty much destroy my will to play the game. Why even bother pretending to be a useful team member or spend a single moment trying to improve my ship when there's people putting out this much damage with what seems like a completely ordinary setup? How can I feel any sense of accomplishment whatsoever for achieving a personal best when there's other players doing so much better that they dismiss my best effort as "you have to be really bad to score that low"? Whatever I'm doing wrong, it is absolutely massive, on the order of magnitude of newbies who don't realize they need to increase their power to weapons. And I don't even want to pursue learning from these people because the level of hyper-elitism is absolutely disgusting.
Meh.
Your comment makes me feel proud thank you for your understanding
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
You're not doing anything "wrong" unless your goal is to produce the same level of DPS and failing at it. Some people enjoy that aspect of the game, some dont care. For me personally its enough to know how to do it, I dont care if I actually do it.
Threads like this pretty much destroy my will to play the game. Why even bother pretending to be a useful team member or spend a single moment trying to improve my ship when there's people putting out this much damage with what seems like a completely ordinary setup? How can I feel any sense of accomplishment whatsoever for achieving a personal best when there's other players doing so much better that they dismiss my best effort as "you have to be really bad to score that low"? Whatever I'm doing wrong, it is absolutely massive, on the order of magnitude of newbies who don't realize they need to increase their power to weapons. And I don't even want to pursue learning from these people because the level of hyper-elitism is absolutely disgusting.
Meh.
Don't dwell on it. If you actually knew the mechanics they use to get those numbers, you'd be disgusted over the fact that they gloat about it. I'm not saying it's impossible to get high "damage/second". Players that spend every second in a match trying to keep on target will have a much higher damage/second parsing than someone playing the mission casually.
Those "record run" fights where dual heavy cannons hit for 15,000 damage per shot, that's Beta stacking abuse with Space Warfare Specialists. Then there's the matter of Fire at Will + Beta stacking on multiple ships. Fire at Will triggers procs like the Omega Weapon Amplifier much more frequently than intended, allowing for players to be under multiple stacks of that proc at a time. Each copy of Attack Pattern Beta decreases enemy damage resistance by -20 to -60, depending on level/skill points. 5 stacks of beta will drop the target to insanely negative damage resistance ratings. Throw in Marion Francis Dumar, one of the most overpowered pay to win duty officers in the game, and you begin to see how they do it. Marion basically gives the player a copy of Nadion Inversion for a few seconds. Lastly, we have plasmonic leech, which increases the player's ship power while draining the enemy ship's weapon power (less incoming damage), shield power (less resistances), engine power (less defense), and auxiliary power (weaker sci skills).
They think they are so great because they can do all that over and over in a mission. In truth, anyone can do it, you don't need any skill to fly in circles mashing spacebar. True, you need to know where to position your ship each time, but that isn't rocket science. One day, Fire at Will may work correctly, Marion will be brought back in line, Auxiliary to Battery will be brought back into line, Beta will get diminishing returns from super stacking the debuff, hangar pets will stop receiving player buffs, and those "elitists" will have moved on to "The Next Broken Thing [TM]".
Is there a guide on timing? I just spam everutgi.g with
Y cannons...minus "trying to get gdf" on the first cube and popping attack.pattetn alpha/tactical team at the first group
I don't think there are really guides on it. If only But, to bring up a recent build of yours, I don't think you just spam DEM at will, do you? A carefully timed DEM, to trigger Marion at the right moment, followed by that wicked BO3 (and then a few dofs that do shield-penetrating dmg after BO on other weps), and you're looking at a whole lot more effective build than just cycling DEM automagically. And the same goes for Nadion Inversion.
One of the mistakes I keep making, like in CSE, that I fire off my buffs too early, whilst still en route to the enemies. Some of those, like Delta, may already have (partially) expired by the time I arrive. But I'm learning.
I don't think there are really guides on it. If only But, to bring up a recent build of yours, I don't think you just spam DEM at will, do you? A carefully timed DEM, to trigger Marion at the right moment, followed by that wicked BO3 (and then a few dofs that do shield-penetrating dmg after BO on other weps), and you're looking at a whole lot more effective build than just cycling DEM automagically. And the same goes for Nadion Inversion.
One of the mistakes I keep making, like in CSE, that I fire off my buffs too early, whilst still en route to the enemies. Some of those, like Delta, may already have (partially) expired by the time I arrive. But I'm learning.
Delta....you're kidding right?
On topic:
Gratz Jena, seen this in action before and I know it's taken you a while to get it purrfect, well done
When building ships for dps it generally comes down to 3 things:
1) maximum uptime on tactical abilities.
2) maximum uptime on self buffs, especially ones that boost damage.
3) add anything sciencey that does damage as lol heals/science.
This is also another reason I created the "has damage got out of control" thread. Great pilots are getting some breathtaking dps numbers. Average pilots like me are still hitting mid 20ks without paying much attention. I believe Mal when he said all T5 ships can get 20-30k.
However a lot of the time you're just playing them in a similar way as described above and as said earlier, doing the dance. No place for non damage debuffs, control, tanking or protecting, it's all damage, all the time and nothing gives anywhere near as good returns as damage does.
If we were getting these silly low completion times with a variety of ships and skills all working in synergy that would be amazing but we're not, it's mostly the same 6 abilities. Rest is maximising that and timing.
Anyway, well done Jena, any idea what you're next ship to hit 30k+ will be?
Everyone's always dissing Delta. Sure, it debuffs a litte less than Beta; but it also gives +20 All Damage Resistance for 15 sec to self. Along with an ATO3 (+25 All Damage resistance for 15 sec), and 2 Zemoks, you're looking at a perma tank of at least +20.
And there's so much Beta already on the field, don't really need to pile on. And having the Attack Pattern perma-tank, no need for A2D, or any Neutroniums even. I just run my FAE with 2 copies of EPtW, and survive all eSTF missions with ease.
Fire at Will triggers procs like the Omega Weapon Amplifier much more frequently than intended, allowing for players to be under multiple stacks of that proc at a time.
Wasn't this fixed like last year. You know the patch that borked faw.
Each copy of Attack Pattern Beta decreases enemy damage resistance by -20 to -60, depending on level/skill points. 5 stacks of beta will drop the target to insanely negative damage resistance ratings.
Something something mmo team game something. Oh and diminishing returns.
Throw in Marion Francis Dumar, one of the most overpowered pay to win duty officers in the game, and you begin to see how they do it. Marion basically gives the player a copy of Nadion Inversion for a few seconds.
And by overpowered you mean overpriced. 18% up time for 45m.
Lastly, we have plasmonic leech, which increases the player's ship power while draining the enemy ship's weapon power (less incoming damage), shield power (less resistances), engine power (less defense), and auxiliary power (weaker sci skills).
So depending on where that base DRR/DR is for the target, those stacked debuffs could mean all sorts of different things.
Say they had the equivalent of ~75 DR...they had 5660 DRR (lol, ahem - yeah, anyway)...that -75 DRR debuff would drop them to 70.5 DR. 70.5 DR is ~460 DRR (5200 positive DRR less than what it took to get to the ~75 DR - but which was taken away by only 75 negative DRR).
Debuffs are far more powerful than buffs.
edit: Should be easy to point out that the last statement up there is rather conditional. As such, I'll include the following.
0 DRR to 75 DRR, results in 41.7 DR.
0 DRR to -75 DRR, results in -71.4 DR.
Gives the appearance that debuffs are more powerful, right?
Let's combine them in a sense, eh?
+75 DRR & -75 DRR, results in 17.4 DR.
So, hitting up the +75 DRR with -75 DRR is a loss of 24.3 DR.
So, hitting up the -75 DRR with +75 DRR is a gain of 88.8 DR.
Entirely different appearance now, eh? Buffs are more powerful than debuffs!
It's all going to depend on where you're looking at it along the line...somewhat. Goes back to the diminishing returns - the more you stack +DRR, the better -DRR becomes in regard to the ratio reflecting the change in DR between the two.
At 5660 +DRR, that -75 DRR eats 5200 +DRR...while at 75 +DRR, that -75 DRR only eats 42.5 +DRR.
So at 5660 +DRR, you're looking at a ratio of ~1:69.3 - but - at 75 +DRR, you're looking at a ratio of ~1.76:1 instead.
Heaven forbid someone try to activate more than on power at a time.
Don't even bother trying to pull that line with me, you know exactly what's wrong with Fire at Will + Beta. No other ability can spread that much debuff power to everything within 10km at no disadvantage. Five ships with fire at will + beta are capable of putting more damage in a 360 degree arc than anything else in the entire game.
Wasn't this fixed like last year. You know the patch that borked faw.
The weapon type procs got fixed, Omega Weapon Amplifier is still racking up 2-3 times for the duration of Fire at Will. Way to pull the "last year" line in January to make it sound like a distant fix, it was actually about three to four months ago.
Something something mmo team game something. Oh and diminishing returns.
Diminishing returns for damage resistance apply to positive damage resistance ratings to make it impossible to bypass 75% damage resistance. Damage resistance rating reduction is a straight subtraction from the positive resistance rating. The diminishing returns don't hurt Beta stacking at all. The devs have even acknowledged that Beta stacking is over the top: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=14440211&postcount=47
And by overpowered you mean overpriced. 18% up time for 45m.
The duty officer effectively neutralizes energy weapon drain for the duration. This provides a massive damage boost while the buff is active, which is why the duty officer is very expensive on the exchange. You know that already.
I'm not sure if virus dancer knows but damage resistance goes to -200% on negative when it goes +75% on positive, when the negative resistance doesnt have much of dimishing returns, meaning its fairly easy to reach -200% resistance when +75% is not that easy.. might need around 800 res to get 74.9?
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Damage resistance rating reduction is a straight subtraction from the positive resistance rating.
That's not the case. I'm still waiting for somebody to "pretty up" the formula for it. As is, it's much easier just to keep it in a spreadsheet.
(C3) Max (maximum DR, standard is 75% which is reflected by a value of 0.75)
(C4) Positive DRR (DRR / 100, so 17.5 would be 0.175)
(C5) Diminished Positive DRR ( =SUM((1/(1-C3))-1-(((1/(1- C3))-1)/(1+(C4/((1/(1- C3))-1))+((C4/((1/(1- C3))-1))^2)))) )
(C6) Positive DR ( =SUM((-((1/(1+C5))-1))*100) )
(C7) Negative DRR ( DRR / 100, so -10 would be -0.10)
(C8) Diminished Negative DRR ( =SUM((1/(1-C3))-1-(((1/(1- C3))-1)/(1+(C7/((1/(1- C3))-1))+((C7/((1/(1- C3))-1))^2)))) )
(C9) Resisted Diminished DRR ( =SUM((1-(C6/100))*C8) )
(C10) Total DR ( =SUM((-((1/((1+C5)/(1+C9))-1))*100)) )
I'm not sure if virus dancer knows but damage resistance goes to -200% on negative when it goes +75% on positive, when the negative resistance doesnt have much of dimishing returns, meaning its fairly easy to reach -200% resistance when +75% is not that easy.. might need around 800 res to get 74.9?
Didn't know about the negative cap. It had never came up in any of the stuff I'd worked on. That's curious, because one would expect it to go lower - they didn't include anything about a negative cap when they shared info on the DR stuff however long ago that was.
To get up near the edge of that 75% positive cap, you're looking at around 5660 DRR (over 323 blue Mk XI Neuts).
Hrmm, that 200% negative on the other hand...well, vs. a no +DRR target...you'd be looking at -300 DRR. Soon as that target had some positive DR/DRR, you'd need more -DRR to hit that -200%.
With the changes they've mentioned about limiting APB per player (not including pets) - how often were folks actually multi-stacking APBs themselves? Is that going to be a hit to the community there?
There are plenty of threads where you can rant about FAW/Beta/whatever. This isn't one of them.
Please stop trolling my thread.
Voicing an opposing opinion is trolling now, is it? There are several arguments in this thread claiming that Beta stacking has nothing to do with your build reaching 30k+ DPS. I'm making an argument against that claim. Beta stacking is a key piece to reaching 30k DPS with that or any build in the long run. True, not the only reason, but the biggest reason. The secondary to that is Fire at Will, especially when combined with Beta.
With the changes they've mentioned about limiting APB per player (not including pets) - how often were folks actually multi-stacking APBs themselves? Is that going to be a hit to the community there?
Well, most in the dps community run apo every 30s and beta every 30s, so that would be 31% uptime for 1 person(cast times included?), around 1.5 betas on constant, tho that's not how it works, on the top end dps teams people use beta at the same time to "stack" the -res as high as possiple on specific targets so they get so much weaker that they are easy to kill in team work, it's not a thought thing, it's just how the buff cycles go for the maxium damage. with the recent pet bug, its fairly possiple that the -res on enemies is overcapping more than normally, it's not causing so much difference since bfaw not critting is alrdy eating around 40% of total dps from the people.
On top of the cycles of 5x beta, there are cycles of 5x fomm on the teams aswell, which brings enemy res to -200% instantly, or 199.99% that is.
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
There are several arguments in this thread claiming that Beta stacking has nothing to do with your build reaching 30k+ DPS. I'm making an argument against that claim. Beta stacking is a key piece to reaching 30k DPS with that or any build in the long run. True, not the only reason, but the biggest reason. The secondary to that is Fire at Will, especially when combined with Beta.
Wrong, here is how damage is turned to mastery, you need everything because they give full buff to eachother and have no dimishing returns to eachother,
1. % dmg stacking, this amplifies other amplifiers and is amplified by them, up to... I have no clue how much dmg this thing gives... 300%??
2. Weapon power aka overcapping(this is where all the buffs are applied to) up to 100% more damage
3. Bfaw, this is what gives another amplifier to the damage, a separate amplifier, allows target switching without interrupting weapon cycles, huge difference, up to 40-60% more damage.
4. At this point the damage has reached high enough numbers that resistance is a factor of over the bfaw, but not without it, bfaw is better alone than beta, which is why beta is not 3rd best damage amplifier, because it simply needs high damage to bring any benefits to it up to 40% more damage on average.
5. critical hits are number 5 because.. you need them to amplify other amplifiers, they are alone not good, just as beta, since bfaw is negating the critical hits at the moment, there is no reason to use bfaw, meaning that critical hits will be amplified by only 2 modifiers instead of 3, this is the biggest reason why beta is better at this moment, because critical hits can amplify the damage by up to 50% after all existing amplifiers, depending on buffs
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Wrong, here is how damage is turned to mastery, you need everything because they give full buff to eachother and have no dimishing returns to eachother,
1. % dmg stacking, this amplifies other amplifiers and is amplified by them, up to... I have no clue how much dmg this thing gives... 300%??
That would be Attack Pattern Alpha/Omega, Go Down Fighting, and Emergency Power to Weapons. Omega is usually dropped in PvE in favor of Beta.
2. Weapon power aka overcapping(this is where all the buffs are applied to) up to 100% more damage
I believe I already touched on this several posts back with Omega Weapon Amplifier. Yes, it gets worse with EPtW + Aux2Bat, but that isn't relevant to this thread because the build is not an Aux2Bat ship.
3. Bfaw, this is what gives another amplifier to the damage, a separate amplifier, allows target switching without interrupting weapon cycles, huge difference, up to 40-60% more damage.
Take 5 Cruisers with just Beta II and have them shoot at a Tactical Cube + ISE Gate. Next, take 5 Crusiers with just Fire at Will III and have them shoot at a Tactical Cube + ISE Gate. The Attack Pattern Beta Cruisers will kill the targets first, everything else being equal.
4. At this point the damage has reached high enough numbers that resistance is a factor of over the bfaw, but not without it, bfaw is better alone than beta, which is why beta is not 3rd best damage amplifier, because it simply needs high damage to bring any benefits to it up to 40% more damage on average.
Beta is a force multiplier on it's own. Fire at Will is not a force multiplier, unless it's combined with Beta.
5. critical hits are number 5 because.. you need them to amplify other amplifiers, they are alone not good, just as beta, since bfaw is negating the critical hits at the moment, there is no reason to use bfaw, meaning that critical hits will be amplified by only 2 modifiers instead of 3, this is the biggest reason why beta is better at this moment, because critical hits can amplify the damage by up to 50% after all existing amplifiers, depending on buffs
Critical Hits scale on Critical Severity, it's not a flat rate "up to 50%" buff.
Diminishing returns for damage resistance apply to positive damage resistance ratings to make it impossible to bypass 75% damage resistance. Damage resistance rating reduction is a straight subtraction from the positive resistance rating. The diminishing returns don't hurt Beta stacking at all. The devs have even acknowledged that Beta stacking is over the top: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=14440211&postcount=47
No they acknowledged bugged faw is over the top and its hard to evaluate what they should do with it while it's not working as intended.
The duty officer effectively neutralizes energy weapon drain for the duration. This provides a massive damage boost while the buff is active, which is why the duty officer is very expensive on the exchange. You know that already.
It neutralizes energy drain for 8 seconds every 45 seconds. It's expensive because a) it's rare and b) there's not much choice for dps increasing doffs. I don't run it because I'd rather get a fleet ship and a few k dps.
Ah, the good old "everyone's doing it" logical fallacy :rolleyes:. See also: Argumentum ad populum
Please. Throwing around buzzwords doesn't make you sound smart. It makes you look TRIBBLE. The point is with everyone using it there's still a massive gap between high and low end dps. Just slapping on a leech isn't going to magically double your dps.
With just a2b I get 155 weapons power and enough in shields and engines to proc amp. So yes its good no its not a magic 50k dps button.
The vast majority of dps comes from a competent boff set up and the right type of weapons. Stuff like marion and 30m traits are icing on the top that lets you push into the 40k range.
It neutralizes energy drain for 8 seconds every 45 seconds. It's expensive because a) it's rare and b) there's not much choice for dps increasing doffs. I don't run it because I'd rather get a fleet ship and a few k dps.
You do realize how much damage a player may deal in 8 seconds with very little energy drain, right?
Please. Throwing around buzzwords doesn't make you sound smart. It makes you look TRIBBLE.
You didn't even look at the link I provided, did you? That wasn't a "buzzword", it was a direct link to an article explaining the type of logical fallacy you used in your previous post.
The point is with everyone using it there's still a massive gap between high and low end dps. Just slapping on a leech isn't going to magically double your dps.
With just a2b I get 155 weapons power and enough in shields and engines to proc amp. So yes its good no its not a magic 50k dps button.
Plasmonic leech is a problem because it is always on, increases your effectiveness in all power level areas, and decreases the target's effectiveness in all power level areas. It won't "double your DPS", but it will significantly contribute to weapon power overcapping.
Stuff like marion and 30m traits are icing on the top that lets you push into the 40k range.
Most duty officers provide some form of synergy with bridge officer abilities to enhance them in some way. This often comes in form of cooldown reduction.
I'm so sad I ended up reading this thread. Why I read it? Because with the log so handily available I could easily understand how the numbers were achieved. And I did.
This pretty much sums it up, minus the last sentence:
Threads like this pretty much destroy my will to play the game. Why even bother pretending to be a useful team member or spend a single moment trying to improve my ship when there's people putting out this much damage with what seems like a completely ordinary setup? How can I feel any sense of accomplishment whatsoever for achieving a personal best when there's other players doing so much better that they dismiss my best effort as "you have to be really bad to score that low"? Whatever I'm doing wrong, it is absolutely massive, on the order of magnitude of newbies who don't realize they need to increase their power to weapons. And I don't even want to pursue learning from these people because the level of hyper-elitism is absolutely disgusting.
Meh.
The saddest part is not that I wouldn't want to learn, but that I know I couldn't achieve it. I reached my max trying to press the right key with the right bind when necessary, and even there, I make mistakes and hit the wrong key. And don't even get me started on flying and position.
The only reassuring thing here is I rarely encounter these players in STFs, and so I can enjoy the pleasure of being good in a given team.
I definitely am jealous of all of those players that can do it, it's impressive for me. I hope they enjoy playing as much as I do when I actually manage a run without unwanted powers activated at unwanted times and facing the enemies.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Comments
Meh.
As someone who started playing the game not even two months ago and run STFs with Jena on a regular basis, I can tell you that I don't see the hyper-elitism that you are mentioning.
Actually, Jena has helped me a ton by giving me countless advice on ship builds and strategy to improve my setups, performance and strategies. I'm pretty sure most of the min-max players are aware that past (insert amount of dps) is just overkill but its what they love to do, and most of the folks that I've talked to have been super helpful and not making you feel like part of the non-elite-scrub-pleb.
My recommendation: come spend some time on the redditchat channel or other community channels
I'm sensing a mixture of genuine sadness, and just plain jealousy. Me, I just stand in awe of those people. Sure, as an Engineer, I don't have access to Tactical Initiative, and I can't Go Down Fighting and all; but still, it's these pilots themselves that really make it work. And they are not 'ruining' it for anyone: they're giving you a glimpse of what's out there; that's neither 'hyper-elitism,' nor 'absolutely disgusting.'
Sure, your own sense of accomplishment might get shattered when seeing such numbers. But how is that their fault?! You can hardly expect them to not post their results, simply because your ego can't handle it.
You wanna get 30k too?! Or at least get better, here's a freebie tip: stop auto-cycling everything: learn timing. From my own humble experience, I realized there's already a lot to be gained from doing just that alone.
Don't lend this to much thought, or credence. Achieving this is like tying at tic tac toe. At the time they were created STO was a very different than it is now. You really can't expect any more from Elite STF's than we are getting.
You can see the design changes that have been made in events as they moved past the Borg storyline.
As you can see from the info in this thread it is a pretty straightforward process. If you want to do it, do it. If not, don't really worry over it there are PLENTY of ways to enjoy STO.
As a final note, even using evasive maneuvers has a DPS value. Changing your power settings by some method before using evasive maneuvers has a different DPS value. Doing those things at the proper time has a third DPS value.
Knowing those things in a set piece battle is trivial. ESTF's are set piece. DPS Profits.
Cheers and happy flying.
EDIT: So just continue having fun. If you're not having fun without a ship like this, just continue to ask for help and I'm sure you can make one. I'm confident you'll be fine.
In my opinion (and my opinion is the only one that should matter on this, unlike everything else I talk about where my opinion does not matter in the least)...what Thissler said.
No reason to feel down. 95% of this game's content can be successfully completed by simply knowing what to do and when to do it (and not being a complete derptard). And while all these DPS e-peen contests as of late make it look like there's nothing more important than roflstomping all NPCs in a nanosecond, don't let anyone fool or bully you about it.
In any case, let's hope that the devs get rid of this ridiculous overcapping mechanic as soon as possible.
Sure. A no auxillary tbr is kinda sorta manageable. But the push can be very detrimental.
I never thought of the tbr doff too keep targets...there plus it pulsing everything...
I should've put 2 and 2 together but I never gave it the thought it deserved
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Hangar items will receive all non-weapon modifying non-healing buffs at the time of deployment. This is most noticeable with Attack Pattern Beta, as each hangar fighter will apply their own personal always on copy of Beta. However, they will also pick up Attack Pattern Alpha, Directed Energy Modulation, and Emergency Power to Weapons, providing those abilities were active when they were first spawned. There is an identical bug in Ground combat with Security Escorts.
Tractor Beam Repulsors does not have a damage increase from high Auxiliary power levels.
You DPS club players are all the same, using whatever's broken to get your damage/second as high as possible. Then you come in here with this elitist attitude acting like you are better than the rest of us. Newsflash, you aren't, and your damage will drop back down to correct levels once abilities are fixed correctly.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Is there a guide on timing? I just spam everutgi.g with
Y cannons...minus "trying to get gdf" on the first cube and popping attack.pattetn alpha/tactical team at the first group
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Your comment makes me feel proud
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Don't dwell on it. If you actually knew the mechanics they use to get those numbers, you'd be disgusted over the fact that they gloat about it. I'm not saying it's impossible to get high "damage/second". Players that spend every second in a match trying to keep on target will have a much higher damage/second parsing than someone playing the mission casually.
Those "record run" fights where dual heavy cannons hit for 15,000 damage per shot, that's Beta stacking abuse with Space Warfare Specialists. Then there's the matter of Fire at Will + Beta stacking on multiple ships. Fire at Will triggers procs like the Omega Weapon Amplifier much more frequently than intended, allowing for players to be under multiple stacks of that proc at a time. Each copy of Attack Pattern Beta decreases enemy damage resistance by -20 to -60, depending on level/skill points. 5 stacks of beta will drop the target to insanely negative damage resistance ratings. Throw in Marion Francis Dumar, one of the most overpowered pay to win duty officers in the game, and you begin to see how they do it. Marion basically gives the player a copy of Nadion Inversion for a few seconds. Lastly, we have plasmonic leech, which increases the player's ship power while draining the enemy ship's weapon power (less incoming damage), shield power (less resistances), engine power (less defense), and auxiliary power (weaker sci skills).
They think they are so great because they can do all that over and over in a mission. In truth, anyone can do it, you don't need any skill to fly in circles mashing spacebar. True, you need to know where to position your ship each time, but that isn't rocket science. One day, Fire at Will may work correctly, Marion will be brought back in line, Auxiliary to Battery will be brought back into line, Beta will get diminishing returns from super stacking the debuff, hangar pets will stop receiving player buffs, and those "elitists" will have moved on to "The Next Broken Thing [TM]".
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
I don't think there are really guides on it. If only
One of the mistakes I keep making, like in CSE, that I fire off my buffs too early, whilst still en route to the enemies. Some of those, like Delta, may already have (partially) expired by the time I arrive. But I'm learning.
Delta....you're kidding right?
On topic:
Gratz Jena, seen this in action before and I know it's taken you a while to get it purrfect, well done
When building ships for dps it generally comes down to 3 things:
1) maximum uptime on tactical abilities.
2) maximum uptime on self buffs, especially ones that boost damage.
3) add anything sciencey that does damage as lol heals/science.
This is also another reason I created the "has damage got out of control" thread. Great pilots are getting some breathtaking dps numbers. Average pilots like me are still hitting mid 20ks without paying much attention. I believe Mal when he said all T5 ships can get 20-30k.
However a lot of the time you're just playing them in a similar way as described above and as said earlier, doing the dance. No place for non damage debuffs, control, tanking or protecting, it's all damage, all the time and nothing gives anywhere near as good returns as damage does.
If we were getting these silly low completion times with a variety of ships and skills all working in synergy that would be amazing but we're not, it's mostly the same 6 abilities. Rest is maximising that and timing.
Anyway, well done Jena, any idea what you're next ship to hit 30k+ will be?
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Um, no, not really.
Everyone's always dissing Delta. Sure, it debuffs a litte less than Beta; but it also gives +20 All Damage Resistance for 15 sec to self. Along with an ATO3 (+25 All Damage resistance for 15 sec), and 2 Zemoks, you're looking at a perma tank of at least +20.
And there's so much Beta already on the field, don't really need to pile on. And having the Attack Pattern perma-tank, no need for A2D, or any Neutroniums even. I just run my FAE with 2 copies of EPtW, and survive all eSTF missions with ease.
Heaven forbid someone try to activate more than on power at a time.
Wasn't this fixed like last year. You know the patch that borked faw.
Something something mmo team game something. Oh and diminishing returns.
And by overpowered you mean overpriced. 18% up time for 45m.
Admittedly op but everyone uses it anyways.
The diminishing returns on negative DR is not quite the same as it is for positive DR.
DRR / DR
75 / 41.7
70 / 40.1
60 / 36.7
50 / 32.8
40 / 28.3
30 / 22.9
20 / 16.6
10 / 9.1
-10 / -10.0
-20 / -19.9
-30 / -29.7
-40 / .-39.4
-50 / -48.8
-60 / -58.1
-70 / -67.0
-75 / -71.4
+75=40.1, ~53.5%
-75=-71.4, ~95.2%
So uh...talking about diminishing returns on debuff stacking is kind of a misnomer.
Negative DRR is resisted by Positive DRR.
Say the target had the equivalent of a blue Mk XI Neut (+17.5 DRR) and the following debuff amounts were applied, we'd see a change in DR of...
-00 / 14.9
-10 / 7.6
-20 / 0.4
-30 / -6.7
-40 / -13.7
-50 / -20.6
-60 / -27.2
-70 / -33.8
-75 / -36.9
Say they had two blue Neuts (+35.0 DRR)...
-00 / 25.7
-10 / 20.2
-20 / 14.7
-30 / 9.3
-40 / 3.9
-50 / -1.3
-60 / -6.4
-70 / -11.3
-75 / -13.7
So depending on where that base DRR/DR is for the target, those stacked debuffs could mean all sorts of different things.
Say they had the equivalent of ~75 DR...they had 5660 DRR (lol, ahem - yeah, anyway)...that -75 DRR debuff would drop them to 70.5 DR. 70.5 DR is ~460 DRR (5200 positive DRR less than what it took to get to the ~75 DR - but which was taken away by only 75 negative DRR).
Debuffs are far more powerful than buffs.
edit: Should be easy to point out that the last statement up there is rather conditional. As such, I'll include the following.
0 DRR to 75 DRR, results in 41.7 DR.
0 DRR to -75 DRR, results in -71.4 DR.
Gives the appearance that debuffs are more powerful, right?
Let's combine them in a sense, eh?
+75 DRR & -75 DRR, results in 17.4 DR.
So, hitting up the +75 DRR with -75 DRR is a loss of 24.3 DR.
So, hitting up the -75 DRR with +75 DRR is a gain of 88.8 DR.
Entirely different appearance now, eh? Buffs are more powerful than debuffs!
It's all going to depend on where you're looking at it along the line...somewhat. Goes back to the diminishing returns - the more you stack +DRR, the better -DRR becomes in regard to the ratio reflecting the change in DR between the two.
At 5660 +DRR, that -75 DRR eats 5200 +DRR...while at 75 +DRR, that -75 DRR only eats 42.5 +DRR.
So at 5660 +DRR, you're looking at a ratio of ~1:69.3 - but - at 75 +DRR, you're looking at a ratio of ~1.76:1 instead.
The weapon type procs got fixed, Omega Weapon Amplifier is still racking up 2-3 times for the duration of Fire at Will. Way to pull the "last year" line in January to make it sound like a distant fix, it was actually about three to four months ago.
Diminishing returns for damage resistance apply to positive damage resistance ratings to make it impossible to bypass 75% damage resistance. Damage resistance rating reduction is a straight subtraction from the positive resistance rating. The diminishing returns don't hurt Beta stacking at all. The devs have even acknowledged that Beta stacking is over the top: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=14440211&postcount=47
The duty officer effectively neutralizes energy weapon drain for the duration. This provides a massive damage boost while the buff is active, which is why the duty officer is very expensive on the exchange. You know that already.
Ah, the good old "everyone's doing it" logical fallacy :rolleyes:. See also: Argumentum ad populum
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
That's not the case. I'm still waiting for somebody to "pretty up" the formula for it. As is, it's much easier just to keep it in a spreadsheet.
(C3) Max (maximum DR, standard is 75% which is reflected by a value of 0.75)
(C4) Positive DRR (DRR / 100, so 17.5 would be 0.175)
(C5) Diminished Positive DRR ( =SUM((1/(1-C3))-1-(((1/(1- C3))-1)/(1+(C4/((1/(1- C3))-1))+((C4/((1/(1- C3))-1))^2)))) )
(C6) Positive DR ( =SUM((-((1/(1+C5))-1))*100) )
(C7) Negative DRR ( DRR / 100, so -10 would be -0.10)
(C8) Diminished Negative DRR ( =SUM((1/(1-C3))-1-(((1/(1- C3))-1)/(1+(C7/((1/(1- C3))-1))+((C7/((1/(1- C3))-1))^2)))) )
(C9) Resisted Diminished DRR ( =SUM((1-(C6/100))*C8) )
(C10) Total DR ( =SUM((-((1/((1+C5)/(1+C9))-1))*100)) )
This is the fugly formula itself...
TDR = (-1 * ((1 / ((1 + (1 / (1 - 0.75)) - 1 - (((1 / (1 - 0.75)) - 1) / (1 + (DRRP / ((1 / (1 - 0.75)) - 1)) + ((DRRP / ((1 / (1 - 0.75)) - 1)) ^2)))) / (1 + (1 - (((-1 * ((1 / (1 + (1 / (1 - 0.75)) - 1 - (((1 / (1 - 0.75)) - 1) / (1 + (DRRP / ((1 / (1 - 0.75)) - 1)) + ((DRRP / ((1 / (1 - 0.75)) - 1)) ^2))))) - 1)) * 100) / 100) * (1 / (1 - 0.75)) - 1 - (((1 / (1 - 0.75)) - 1) / (1 + (DRRN / ((1 / (1 - MAX)) - 1)) + ((DRRN / ((1 / (1 - 0.75)) - 1)) ^2)))))) - 1)) * 100)
So yeah, I just run it in a spreadsheet and enter the two values for the total +DRR and total -DRR.
Those would be C4 & C7.
There are plenty of threads where you can rant about FAW/Beta/whatever. This isn't one of them.
Please stop trolling my thread.
Didn't know about the negative cap. It had never came up in any of the stuff I'd worked on. That's curious, because one would expect it to go lower - they didn't include anything about a negative cap when they shared info on the DR stuff however long ago that was.
To get up near the edge of that 75% positive cap, you're looking at around 5660 DRR (over 323 blue Mk XI Neuts).
Hrmm, that 200% negative on the other hand...well, vs. a no +DRR target...you'd be looking at -300 DRR. Soon as that target had some positive DR/DRR, you'd need more -DRR to hit that -200%.
With the changes they've mentioned about limiting APB per player (not including pets) - how often were folks actually multi-stacking APBs themselves? Is that going to be a hit to the community there?
Voicing an opposing opinion is trolling now, is it? There are several arguments in this thread claiming that Beta stacking has nothing to do with your build reaching 30k+ DPS. I'm making an argument against that claim. Beta stacking is a key piece to reaching 30k DPS with that or any build in the long run. True, not the only reason, but the biggest reason. The secondary to that is Fire at Will, especially when combined with Beta.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Well, most in the dps community run apo every 30s and beta every 30s, so that would be 31% uptime for 1 person(cast times included?), around 1.5 betas on constant, tho that's not how it works, on the top end dps teams people use beta at the same time to "stack" the -res as high as possiple on specific targets so they get so much weaker that they are easy to kill in team work, it's not a thought thing, it's just how the buff cycles go for the maxium damage. with the recent pet bug, its fairly possiple that the -res on enemies is overcapping more than normally, it's not causing so much difference since bfaw not critting is alrdy eating around 40% of total dps from the people.
On top of the cycles of 5x beta, there are cycles of 5x fomm on the teams aswell, which brings enemy res to -200% instantly, or 199.99% that is.
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Wrong, here is how damage is turned to mastery, you need everything because they give full buff to eachother and have no dimishing returns to eachother,
1. % dmg stacking, this amplifies other amplifiers and is amplified by them, up to... I have no clue how much dmg this thing gives... 300%??
2. Weapon power aka overcapping(this is where all the buffs are applied to) up to 100% more damage
3. Bfaw, this is what gives another amplifier to the damage, a separate amplifier, allows target switching without interrupting weapon cycles, huge difference, up to 40-60% more damage.
4. At this point the damage has reached high enough numbers that resistance is a factor of over the bfaw, but not without it, bfaw is better alone than beta, which is why beta is not 3rd best damage amplifier, because it simply needs high damage to bring any benefits to it up to 40% more damage on average.
5. critical hits are number 5 because.. you need them to amplify other amplifiers, they are alone not good, just as beta, since bfaw is negating the critical hits at the moment, there is no reason to use bfaw, meaning that critical hits will be amplified by only 2 modifiers instead of 3, this is the biggest reason why beta is better at this moment, because critical hits can amplify the damage by up to 50% after all existing amplifiers, depending on buffs
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
I believe I already touched on this several posts back with Omega Weapon Amplifier. Yes, it gets worse with EPtW + Aux2Bat, but that isn't relevant to this thread because the build is not an Aux2Bat ship.
Take 5 Cruisers with just Beta II and have them shoot at a Tactical Cube + ISE Gate. Next, take 5 Crusiers with just Fire at Will III and have them shoot at a Tactical Cube + ISE Gate. The Attack Pattern Beta Cruisers will kill the targets first, everything else being equal.
Beta is a force multiplier on it's own. Fire at Will is not a force multiplier, unless it's combined with Beta.
Critical Hits scale on Critical Severity, it's not a flat rate "up to 50%" buff.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
It neutralizes energy drain for 8 seconds every 45 seconds. It's expensive because a) it's rare and b) there's not much choice for dps increasing doffs. I don't run it because I'd rather get a fleet ship and a few k dps.
Please. Throwing around buzzwords doesn't make you sound smart. It makes you look TRIBBLE. The point is with everyone using it there's still a massive gap between high and low end dps. Just slapping on a leech isn't going to magically double your dps.
With just a2b I get 155 weapons power and enough in shields and engines to proc amp. So yes its good no its not a magic 50k dps button.
The vast majority of dps comes from a competent boff set up and the right type of weapons. Stuff like marion and 30m traits are icing on the top that lets you push into the 40k range.
You do realize how much damage a player may deal in 8 seconds with very little energy drain, right?
You didn't even look at the link I provided, did you? That wasn't a "buzzword", it was a direct link to an article explaining the type of logical fallacy you used in your previous post.
Plasmonic leech is a problem because it is always on, increases your effectiveness in all power level areas, and decreases the target's effectiveness in all power level areas. It won't "double your DPS", but it will significantly contribute to weapon power overcapping.
Correct, gear and bridge officer abilities play a significant role in ship effectiveness.
Most duty officers provide some form of synergy with bridge officer abilities to enhance them in some way. This often comes in form of cooldown reduction.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
This pretty much sums it up, minus the last sentence:
The saddest part is not that I wouldn't want to learn, but that I know I couldn't achieve it. I reached my max trying to press the right key with the right bind when necessary, and even there, I make mistakes and hit the wrong key. And don't even get me started on flying and position.
The only reassuring thing here is I rarely encounter these players in STFs, and so I can enjoy the pleasure of being good in a given team.
I definitely am jealous of all of those players that can do it, it's impressive for me. I hope they enjoy playing as much as I do when I actually manage a run without unwanted powers activated at unwanted times and facing the enemies.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!