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IRREGULAR CritD and CritH via EXTENSIVE TESTING
agresiel2
Member Posts: 99 Arc User
this is a list of everything that effects critH and critDok, so first off id like to explain our reasoning behind doing this. Recent BFAW problems regarding claims that acc overflow and starship energy weapon specialisation didnt work under the effects of bfaw made us wonder if they did work with normal beams so we ran some tests.
please do NOT turn this into a flame thread as it is a legitimate concern not only from the point of beams but also cannons/turrets.
me (@agresiel) and my good friend john (@john98837) conducted several comprehensive tests regarding many consoles and game mechanics.
all tests expalined in detail
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MgIZu-BLNItCpBs1rzF8lzHytrJ-jlRhVBFhNI4stKo/edit?usp=sharing
TL: DR
base chance............................UNTESTED BUT MAKES SENSE
energy weapon specialisation ...UNTESTED---- MOST LIKELY CULPRIT
romulan boffs x4 +captian trait..john@98837 tested
zero point console.................... TEST 3
assimilated console ...............UNTESTED----POSSIBLE CULPRIT unlikely due to nothing to explain the differance
Tachyokinetic converter.............TEST 5
Bionurel infusion circuits............TEST 6
Nukara partical converter (acc over).TEST 4
Base accuracy overflow ***......UNTESTED AS WEAPON MOD AND NUKARA BACK UP THIS
Weapon mods bonus................TEST 1+2 VS TEST 7
rep..........................................UNTESTED
Tactical consoles......................UNTESTED BUT MAKES SENSE
all of are results seem to back up our math when looking at the KCB however the beam array issue seems to show an issue of:
1-2% critH loss and 20% critD loss with Fleet AP
similar loss for romulan plasma
THIS forces me to conclude that energy weapon specialisation DOESNT effect fleet antiproton and probably romulan plasma
BUT DOES assist KCB, this would make sense if the KCB code was created from scratch
combatlogs for tests
TEST 1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dsaoufti7nf6bqd/TEST%201.log
TEST 2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5z534n5dkr0zp4d/TEST%202.log
TEST 3: https://www.dropbox.com/s/66phbuc81kcskxe/TEST%203.log
TEST 4: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9a0awwopa4bnu9f/TEST%204.log
TEST 5: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5l14g7k1oh2f3i/TEST%205.log
TEST 6: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lvrpf4q4cyqq9zw/TEST%206.log
TEST 7: https://www.dropbox.com/s/r2lxxkub09hjzaq/TEST%207.log
please do NOT turn this into a flame thread as it is a legitimate concern not only from the point of beams but also cannons/turrets.
me (@agresiel) and my good friend john (@john98837) conducted several comprehensive tests regarding many consoles and game mechanics.
all tests expalined in detail
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MgIZu-BLNItCpBs1rzF8lzHytrJ-jlRhVBFhNI4stKo/edit?usp=sharing
TL: DR
base chance............................UNTESTED BUT MAKES SENSE
energy weapon specialisation ...UNTESTED---- MOST LIKELY CULPRIT
romulan boffs x4 +captian trait..john@98837 tested
zero point console.................... TEST 3
assimilated console ...............UNTESTED----POSSIBLE CULPRIT unlikely due to nothing to explain the differance
Tachyokinetic converter.............TEST 5
Bionurel infusion circuits............TEST 6
Nukara partical converter (acc over).TEST 4
Base accuracy overflow ***......UNTESTED AS WEAPON MOD AND NUKARA BACK UP THIS
Weapon mods bonus................TEST 1+2 VS TEST 7
rep..........................................UNTESTED
Tactical consoles......................UNTESTED BUT MAKES SENSE
all of are results seem to back up our math when looking at the KCB however the beam array issue seems to show an issue of:
1-2% critH loss and 20% critD loss with Fleet AP
similar loss for romulan plasma
THIS forces me to conclude that energy weapon specialisation DOESNT effect fleet antiproton and probably romulan plasma
BUT DOES assist KCB, this would make sense if the KCB code was created from scratch
combatlogs for tests
TEST 1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dsaoufti7nf6bqd/TEST%201.log
TEST 2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5z534n5dkr0zp4d/TEST%202.log
TEST 3: https://www.dropbox.com/s/66phbuc81kcskxe/TEST%203.log
TEST 4: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9a0awwopa4bnu9f/TEST%204.log
TEST 5: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5l14g7k1oh2f3i/TEST%205.log
TEST 6: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lvrpf4q4cyqq9zw/TEST%206.log
TEST 7: https://www.dropbox.com/s/r2lxxkub09hjzaq/TEST%207.log
MY SPEED RECORDS KASE: 13:38 CSE: 13:52 ISE: 13:51 HSE: 2:58 NWS: 6:35
Solo STF's With Optional ISE: 3:34
i have all logs saved of these so if you would like to view them send me a pm and it can be arranged
Solo STF's With Optional ISE: 3:34
i have all logs saved of these so if you would like to view them send me a pm and it can be arranged
Post edited by agresiel2 on
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Solo STF's With Optional ISE: 3:34
i have all logs saved of these so if you would like to view them send me a pm and it can be arranged
Test #1: 7 Hours 42 Minutes - Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ta62iz4kty7koht/EPtW%20Baseline%20-%20New%20Core.Log
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Severity: 108.2
Base Acc: 25%
-- Fleet Antiproton Arrays Accx2 Dmgx2
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Accx2 Overflow: 2.5%
Expected Crit Chance: 34.475%
Result: 32.71%
Difference -1.765
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 108.2%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Accx2 Overflow: 10%
Antiproton Trait: 20%
Expected Crit Damage: 180.7%
Result: 158.98%
Difference: -21.72%
-- Kinetic Cutting Beam Dmgx3
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Expected Crit Chance: 31.975%
Result: 31.06%
Difference: -0.915
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 108.2%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Expected Crit Damage: 150.7%
Result: 149.85%
Difference: -0.85
Test #2: 10 Hours 30 Minutes - Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z9ugilelc8w7p6f/EPtW%20Baseline%20-%20Old%20Core.Log
This test was conducted under identical settings as the prior test, with the only difference being switching from one of the new spire cores to one of the older mine cores, both of which have AMP. There was no noticable DPS difference found from this change. The results were nearly identical to the first test, showing a substantial lost of CrtD in antiproton arrays.
-- Fleet Antiproton Arrays Accx2 Dmgx2
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Accx2 Overflow: 2.5%
Expected Crit Chance: 34.475%
Result: 32.57%
Difference -1.905
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 108.2%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Accx2 Overflow: 10%
Antiproton Trait: 20%
Expected Crit Damage: 180.7%
Result: 158.87%
Difference: -21.83%
-- Kinetic Cutting Beam Dmgx3
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Expected Crit Chance: 31.975%
Result: 31.29%
Difference: -0.685
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 108.2%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Expected Crit Damage: 150.7%
Result: 149.61%
Difference: -0.85
Test #3: 10 Hours 18 Minutes - Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ktggl82euhlbvs/Rom%20Plasma%20Crth%20Crtd%20Test.Log
This test was done with 2 romulan plasma arrays mixed in to see if the loss of CrtD was isolated to AntiProton or not. The 2 arrays used are both Crthx1 Crtdx1. There are also 5 Antiproton arrays all with the accx2 dmgx2 mods as with the prior tests. As the results show the Rom Plasma Arrays did loose Crtd, though not quite as much as the AP Arrays are loosing.
-- Fleet Antiproton Arrays Accx2 Dmgx2
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Accx2 Overflow: 2.5%
Expected Crit Chance: 34.475%
Result: 32.46%
Difference -2.015
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 108.2%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Accx2 Overflow: 10%
Antiproton Trait: 20%
Expected Crit Damage: 180.7%
Result: 158.14%
Difference: -22.56%
-- Kinetic Cutting Beam Dmgx3
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Expected Crit Chance: 31.975%
Result: 31.36%
Difference: -0.615
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 108.2%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Expected Crit Damage: 150.7%
Result: 150.34%
Difference: -0.36
-- Romulan Plasma Array Crthx1 Crtdx1
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Weapon Mod: 2%
Expected Crit Chance: 33.975%
Result: 33.11%
Difference: -0.865%
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 108.2%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Weapon Mod: 20%
Expected Crit Damage: 170.7%
Result: 154.68%
Difference: -16.02
Test #4 10 Hours 41 Minutes - Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yulkk42m2jseni/No%20Sup%20Ops%20Plus%20Turrets.Log
For this test I was testing 2 different items. 1 was a suspicious that perhaps Romulan Superior Operatives Crtd was not working with arrays, this proved to be incorrect by the results. The 2nd item was trying to see if weapons other than beam arrays might match the Kinetic Cutting beams almost perfect results, they did not. In this test no romulan boffs were used. Weapons were 5 AP Arrays, 1 Phaser Turret DMGx3 to match the cutting beam, 1 white tetyon turret with no mods, and the cutting beam.
-- Fleet Antiproton Arrays Accx2 Dmgx2
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 16.1%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Accx2 Overflow: 2.5%
Expected Crit Chance: 24.975%
Result: 23.46%
Difference -1.515
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 84.4%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Accx2 Overflow: 10%
Antiproton Trait: 20%
Expected Crit Damage: 156.9%
Result: 137.2%
Difference: -19.7
-- Kinetic Cutting Beam Dmgx3
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 16.1%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Expected Crit Chance: 22.475
Result: 22.48%
Difference: +0.005
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 84.4%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Expected Crit Damage: 126.9%
Result: 126.58%
Difference: -0.32
-- Phaser Turret Dmgx3
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 16.1%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Expected Crit Chance: 22.475
Result: 22.29%
Difference: -0.185
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 84.4%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Expected Crit Damage: 126.9%
Result: 115.31%
Difference: -11.59
-- Tetryon Turret
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 16.1%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Expected Crit Chance: 22.475
Result: 22.2%
Difference: -0.275
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 84.4%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Expected Crit Damage: 126.9%
Result: 114.41%
Difference: -12.49
Conclusions: There seems to be a bug effecting the Critical Damage output of every weapon we tested except the Kinetic Cutting Beam. Both its critical chance and damage are always almost exactly what the math says it should be. The critical chance on turrets seems to be correct as well, though they are suffering an unexplained critical damage loss of about 12%, while this is far less than the 16-22% we see on beams it is still an issue. Antiproton Arrays are also suffering from an unexplained loss of 1.8-2% CrtH, we are not seeing the same CrtH loss on Romulan Plasma Arrays.
Seems pretty weird but glad I didn't decide to switch over to fleet AP just yet.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
John is my CEO. The man knows everything.
That means to me that Fleet AP are NO AP-weapons!
Branflakes & Co. Whats your statment to that?
@maverick8711 does not believe in a no win scenario x5
I conducted a test with turrets and DHCs a few weeks ago. Those AP weapons clearly showed higher crits than their "normal" counterparts so I'd say this issue is confined to beam arrays.
I didn't read through all the tests. Did you guys test regular / non AP arrays or just AP and Rom-Plasma?
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our results showed that there isnt anything wrong with the AP native 20% instead points to EWS
as both of our results lack crith and critd, includeing rommy plasma
so there is no need to test non fleet variants, as they are extremly long and time consuming to complete
Solo STF's With Optional ISE: 3:34
i have all logs saved of these so if you would like to view them send me a pm and it can be arranged
Hey guys, good work on the testing. A lot of effort was definitely put in here.
I wish I had time to comb over all of it, but my schedule is pretty hectic these days.
I just wanted to toss out a few questions, and hopefully it's not something I missed while skimming the posts/data.
Did you test any other Fleet Beam Arrays, or Standard Arrays?
I ask because with something unique like the KCB who knows whats really going on with the code behind the design, as well as this could be an issue with all Fleet Beam Arrays and not just AP (and possibly DBBs?).
For example, at one point I noticed (and posted) that Voth AP weapons don't seem to gain the same % boost in damage from AP Tac Consoles as other AP weapons do.
My other comment is that I'm not actually convinced that Gates/Transformers have literally "no defense" - that might not actually matter for these tests but I'd just toss that out there.
That would confirm it is the EWS skills and not some other element, don't you think?
Yes, you'd get less crit, but if you match the predicted levels before any skill points are added, but not after any skill points are added, you have identified the culprit.
id like to do this and i did consider it briefly
however it would take 1 respec token to do and a second one to rectify if the issues, were not found.
and thats zen/real money i do not wish to use
transformers do not have any defense (-15% stationary has) as i pointed out in my explianation, also the math confirms that, accross all the tests, otherwise the KCB wouldnt have such close results with the expected results
we have only tested:-
fleet ap array
rommy plasma array
kcb
rommy experemental beam
experemental proton weapon
and some turrets
and all show signs of crit D loss
Solo STF's With Optional ISE: 3:34
i have all logs saved of these so if you would like to view them send me a pm and it can be arranged
We did not do a test with standard arrays as yet, but we might. We did do a test using non fleet standard turrets, its the last on my post. It showed that the CrtH was as expected but like both the romulan plasma and fleet antiproton arrays there was a critical damage loss that could not be explained. The CrtD loss on turrets was however less than on arrays, about 12% vs 20%.
As the cutting beam is a very unique weapon it is interesting that it is always exactly on target with where the math says it should be, makes me think that whatever part of the weapons code that is broken with the others was not used or done differently for the KCB.
Unless the transformers had a rather high defense rating it wouldn't make the math work out, it should have a -15 as it is a stationary object.
We considered doing this but as the respec system won't let you respec without spending all points we would have to blow 2 respec tokens to do it.
Can't you wipe the slate, run the tests, then re-add your selection of skills when done? I didn't think it makes you add them then and there. I seem to recall respec'ing and not spending all my points at once.
No, just tried, you can hit Clear All and clear everything but you can't hit accept. Inorder to hit accept you have to spend all skillpoints.
I usually copy to tribble when I want to do respec-testing.
Otherwise, respeccing on live to test stuff in a game where all of it might be fixed and then broken again within a 3 month span just isn't worth it.
That and the hassle of trying to get 4 other people on tribble so we can start an ISE is why we ruled that option out.
Oh yeah.... forgot that part
Thank you for the testing guys. I do hope a Dev takes a close look and makes some adjustments.
I'd be willing to help set up a tribble test whenever I am on. @jack24bau3r
In this test I was testing Fleet AP vs standard beam arrays with mods of Accx3, Crthx3, and Crtdx3. There was only 1 Fleet Array so its results are somewhat less reliable, there wer 2 of each on the other arrays. I found both the Crthx3 and Crtdx3 arrays Critical Chance to be right where they should be, the Accx3 array is missing 2.6% Critical Chance. On critical damage all 3 are missing 16-23%, but the Accx3 ones are missing the most. Kinetic cutting beam as always is exactly where it should be by all the math. I believe there may be an issue with accuracy overflow here, or possibly a cap or DR, but cannot be certain.
It would be nice to hear from a dev if you guys are going to look into this, or if any of our calculations are incorrect. All I can say conclusively is if you have Acc on a weapon your gonna start missing Crth, and every weapon seems to suffer from lower than expected Crtd numbers, except the cutting beam.
-- Fleet Antiproton Arrays Accx2 Dmgx2
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Accx2 Overflow: 2.5%
Expected Crit Chance: 34.475%
Result: 32.91%
Difference -1.565
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 108.2%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Accx2 Overflow: 10%
Antiproton Trait: 20%
Expected Crit Damage: 180.7%
Result: 157.17%
Difference: -23.53%
-- Kinetic Cutting Beam Dmgx3
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Expected Crit Chance: 31.975%
Result: 31.61%
Difference: -0.365
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 108.2%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Expected Crit Damage: 150.7%
Result: 150.31%
Difference: -0.39
-- Phaser Beam Arrays Crthx3
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Weapon Mod: 6%
Expected Crit Chance: 37.975%
Result: 37.8%
Difference: -0.175%
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 108.2%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Expected Crit Damage: 150.7%
Result: 136.78%
Difference: -13.92
-- Tetryon Beam Arrays Accx3
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Weapon Mod: 3.75%
Expected Crit Chance: 35.725%
Result: 33.04%
Difference: -2.685%
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 108.2%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Weapon Mod: 15%
Expected Crit Damage: 165.7%
Result: 142.07%
Difference: -23.63
-- Plasma Beam Arrays Crtdx3
Crit Chance Expected Results:
Base Crit Chance: 25.6%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 4.375%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 2%
Expected Crit Chance: 31.975%
Result: 31.49%
Difference: -0.485%
Crit Damage Expected Results:
Base Crit Damage: 108.2%
Base Accuracy Overflow: 17.5%
Energy Weapons Specialization: 25%
Weapon Mod: 60%
Expected Crit Damage: 210.7%
Result: 191.2%
Difference: -19.5%
If anyone wants to run similar tests on cannons we would be happy to assist in going over the data and setting up the tests, but we are really just focused on beam arrays at this time.
The reason to test this is that if these results are accurate then not only is FAW bugged but Beam Arrays themselves may be bugged.
Besides Beam Arrays and FAW are anything but too powerful unless you like tickling lots of shield facings for high DPS Vs. Real kill power.
So your fine with broken game mechanics that don't do what we are told they do, ok. The fact that we are seeing some crtd loss on turrets and probably would on cannons as well if tested, that's fine with you as well I take it.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
im pretty sure you have a limited understanding of how the game works to post something so wildly inaccurate. or your just a troll.
please look at any combat log and you will see two numbers usually one is the base damage and one is damage after resistance is taken into account both positive and negative.
THE ONLY weapons which would do this is ones with the disruptor proc
i already took this into account for possible test contamination and had two fail safes in place
1) long test parses = any minor resistance changes would be averaged out to still give a reliable picture in fact the tests were so long i had to contact the creator of the combatlogreader to obtain a special version just to read the logs as they were too long in the beggining
2)not satisfied with point 1 and knowing the game has an in build randomiser of about a 10% swing each way i asked the creator of the logreader to make another special version that could find the maximum single hit of a crit and a non crit and find the critd via that option knowing that over the long time period the chance is that both would find the top end value and mitigate any chance of contamination caused by resistance debuff of disruptor proc
so please, rather than attempt to tarnish our results with unfounded claims, present proper theorys/ evidence or simply DONT post
this isnt a flame thread, nor is it a plz buff my beam thread
IT IS: a thread with a legitimate concern regarding game mechanics that appear to be contradictory with the game itself.
thank you
Solo STF's With Optional ISE: 3:34
i have all logs saved of these so if you would like to view them send me a pm and it can be arranged
Considering it was simply a statement to offer up advise, and not to troll you. you return comment is very unnecessary and ill conceived. Also you can bite me for all I care now!!! :mad:
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!