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Tholian Recluse PVE dps

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  • nobletnoblet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Why Maco deflector? The reason ppl mix and match Maco shield with 2 piece borg set is to get the borg shield regen set bonus on that large Maco shield. You're not getting that benefit right now.
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    noblet wrote: »
    Why Maco deflector? The reason ppl mix and match Maco shield with 2 piece borg set is to get the borg shield regen set bonus on that large Maco shield. You're not getting that benefit right now.

    I actually swapped the shield for the adapted shield. The regen bonuses i dont really need. The engines on the other hand i do need they seem to be the best overall. The other bonuses from the adapted shields and deflector on paper any ways will support and enhance my science shennanigans.
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • arnamenarnamen Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Let me ask something real quick here. Gaining high DPS is one thing but could you effectively kill faster and do just as well and better doing a mix in what Kimmym did with a lot of sci ability in Grav Well, Viral Matrix and so forth. It looks like something on an average DPS of 8k-10K could do very well and on par to something of a 20K DPS or more that doesn't do crowd control and debuffs/weakening skills on the enemy.

    If you going to use a carrier which I love to use at times. I will do much to benefit on science abilities. Some recluse build I've seen did a lot of power drains with syphon and sorts with tetryon beams to pull down shields fast and hard using allowing the pets to pound them.

    If you notice too the obelisk set gives a bonus to the carrier pets. Has anyone tested to use it and see how well the pets perform under them.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    arnamen wrote: »
    Let me ask something real quick here. Gaining high DPS is one thing but could you effectively kill faster and do just as well and better doing a mix in what Kimmym did with a lot of sci ability in Grav Well, Viral Matrix and so forth. It looks like something on an average DPS of 8k-10K could do very well and on par to something of a 20K DPS or more that doesn't do crowd control and debuffs/weakening skills on the enemy.

    If you going to use a carrier which I love to use at times. I will do much to benefit on science abilities. Some recluse build I've seen did a lot of power drains with syphon and sorts with tetryon beams to pull down shields fast and hard using allowing the pets to pound them.

    If you notice too the obelisk set gives a bonus to the carrier pets. Has anyone tested to use it and see how well the pets perform under them.

    Dps is always prefered in stfs as a whole. You can use sci abilities but nothing helps the team more then high dps. The best (most pleasing to see) crowd control is gravity well


    Shields tend to not last all too long to begin with

    The Advanced obelisk set (800 lobi) gives a really excellent buff, definitly a boon to the affected pets and they really need emergency power to shields. Issue being it will only fit on the obelisk....wouldve been soo damn amazing on a jem hadar dreadnaught with attack ships or a recluse with weavers....ah welll
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • arnamenarnamen Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I forgot about that. Only for Obelisk, such a shame. Well, then I think then if I maxed out the Grav Well and hyped the dps with other layout wouldn't be so bad then. Can we consider Tycon's Rift to be just as good too to help the team out.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    arnamen wrote: »
    I forgot about that. Only for Obelisk, such a shame. Well, then I think then if I maxed out the Grav Well and hyped the dps with other layout wouldn't be so bad then. Can we consider Tycon's Rift to be just as good too to help the team out.

    Meh, I don't really see tykens rift weakening enemy ships in pve. It could just be to subtle to notice in combat. I know polarons can stop a tactical cube dead, so TR should help. The keyword being should.

    Gravity well's effects are obviously apparent. Would be preferable to just have 2 gravity wells
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • edited January 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • arnamenarnamen Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    makes sense on both comments. 2 GW wouldn't be bad. Maybe some of the sci abilities are just not built up enough to make them worth it. I think I got what I wanted on this topic.
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    In STF's DPS is king, but as long as you can output anywhere from 4k - 10k you are at least not holding anyone back, you might not be breaking any records but you are getting the job done.

    I have used polaron builds in the past, laong with polarized disruptors (man those are mean), i never notice much effect from Tyken's but i often see great effect from things like TBR, and the reversec TBR (from that voth doff) and also Grav Well.

    Grav well noticeably help cause mega invisitorps die when launched :) well except from unimatrix ships because they are so darn long.

    But yes Kimmym has it right in using her carrier like a fast attack/ science shennaigans ship.

    While most people will tell you high offense is the best defense, im preferential to good offense and good defense, no probes get past me and no nanite spheres get to their target, a good CC, science guy is something you should always be glad to see on your team.
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    You really liked that science shenangins comment eh?
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    edalgo wrote: »
    For STFs having a lot of science abilities IN PLACE OF tactical abilities is a detriment. Yes it's good to have GW and SOME control but what good is control when it takes double the time to kill everything? For STFs it's better to compliment your dps not neuter it.

    That is why you pair say 2 GW with 2 TBR and a few particle generators. On a carrier you also have your pets slamming the enemy and the more they hold those guys in place the more it helps.

    I mean neutering is a bit of a strong term, as you arent doing as much damamge sre, but you are doing different damage and supporting your team, which should be equally important.

    This is why i often play with fleetmates as they appreciate having a healer and CC guy in a carrier hanging about during matches, i ran a test the other day, with out healing just my GW, TBR and weapons, with the black ball of death console, i got first in CEE everytime, thats pretty good i think. There are situatoins that require a tool other than a hammer, sure a hammer might work but alittle finesse and skill can go a long way too.

    If your only goal is to blow through content and matches then so be it, but if a record isnt something you care a bout science abilities when used right can help the team just as much as DPS.
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    You really liked that science shenangins comment eh?

    You have read and commented enough on most of my stuff to know for certain that to be true. If i could i would change my middle name to Shennaigan's :D
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • wraithshadow13wraithshadow13 Member Posts: 1,728 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I've been using my Recluse as a tank, but would it be possible to get a few tips on that as well?

    I'll definitely be switching to the elite mesh weavers, but i've been using the Refracting tetryons as a way to help keep shields down for better team DPS. The problem there is the voth shields never seem to drop for me. This is even with the tractorbeam doff that makes them drain shields. And chance i could get some feedback?
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I've been using my Recluse as a tank, but would it be possible to get a few tips on that as well?

    I'll definitely be switching to the elite mesh weavers, but i've been using the Refracting tetryons as a way to help keep shields down for better team DPS. The problem there is the voth shields never seem to drop for me. This is even with the tractorbeam doff that makes them drain shields. And chance i could get some feedback?
    I think Jacob two two said it best when he said "there is no around, only through" try beam overload bleed through doffs...really f's up voths.

    The build I linked a few pages ago would work will fir a tanky build as well, the problem is the aggro. Without the cruiser command I wouldn't really worry about being a true tank.
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I've been using my Recluse as a tank, but would it be possible to get a few tips on that as well?

    I'll definitely be switching to the elite mesh weavers, but i've been using the Refracting tetryons as a way to help keep shields down for better team DPS. The problem there is the voth shields never seem to drop for me. This is even with the tractorbeam doff that makes them drain shields. And chance i could get some feedback?

    You may be running into their UBER shield, does it cover half the ship and look kind of wavy? If so that shield wont go down, ever.

    Now as for the rest im pretty sure their shields work a lot like the Dyson ones in which if you do bring them down they just go back up.

    I also use refracting tets, and have no trouble with most things but those damned voth.
    dahminus wrote: »
    I think Jacob two two said it best when he said "there is no around, only through" try beam overload bleed through doffs...really f's up voths.

    The build I linked a few pages ago would work will fir a tanky build as well, the problem is the aggro. Without the cruiser command I wouldn't really worry about being a true tank.

    Dahminus is quite correct, going through them is much for effective than going around, i t works out well for me, as i use the Nukara DBB, along with the mines and 4 Refracting Tets, Nail a BO incoming (soon to be BFAW) crack him with a GW 3, Subspace mconsole majigger hit my TBR's with the reversal doff, and drop my mines when im over him. I get some pretty nasty kinetic damage on them. Especially that dreadnought.

    But its all different strategies for different playstyles, i generally obstinately ignore Dahm and do the oppsoite of what he suggests :D
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    And your dps suffers because if it :P
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    And your dps suffers because if it :P

    But my teams prospers :rolleyes:
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • wraithshadow13wraithshadow13 Member Posts: 1,728 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Okay, cool, thank you, i'll definitely going to check a few pages back for your other post. But yeah, for the large ship in the hanger, i've only seen the shield drop twice, and both times had the hardcore DPS people in it, so i wasn't sure if it was just poor damage on my end, or if there were other ways i could improve. Still though, i do like the Refracting tets, but at least i know to go for the Better ship rather than the fighters.


    I just feel like i could be doing so much better as a tank.
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Okay, cool, thank you, i'll definitely going to check a few pages back for your other post. But yeah, for the large ship in the hanger, i've only seen the shield drop twice, and both times had the hardcore DPS people in it, so i wasn't sure if it was just poor damage on my end, or if there were other ways i could improve. Still though, i do like the Refracting tets, but at least i know to go for the Better ship rather than the fighters.


    I just feel like i could be doing so much better as a tank.

    Voth ships are just tough nuts to crack. You cannot pure DPS them, it just doesnt work out, you have to find ways past their shields.


    But hey it happens, the Recluse is still one of the best ships in the game.
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • wraithshadow13wraithshadow13 Member Posts: 1,728 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I've been digging through the forums as well as other sites online, in an effort to make improvements to my builds over all, yet i'm finding that i'm some how lacking. Given that the end game (estfs) is a standardized testing ground, i find that my DPS is often far too low when compared to the 20k builds, or even the insane 50k build that many people are reaching for. My builds seem solid and can handle most things, but i'm finding that reaching the higher tier in damage might be difficult.


    Are these build built more of FOTM mechanics? Would it be worth respecing into if it's just going to be nerfed some time? While i know beams are the current favorite, i still love my cannons (plus it's too expensive to change right now), so it hurts that there is a video of some one doing that kind of damage in a skittle boat.

    Right now, my Recluse is set to tank, but i worry that i'm doing it wrong... or at least inefficiently since i'm still tanking nicely. Should i try to make it more DPS heavy so i can tank as well as spank?
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Yes...the game revolves around a kill them before they kill you rather then utilizing a damage soaker/healer in any form

    are you using single cannons or duals?

    All of my builds are set to do optimized damage while having some sort of support, if you have any in depth questions, I will answer them for you
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • wraithshadow13wraithshadow13 Member Posts: 1,728 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    Yes...the game revolves around a kill them before they kill you rather then utilizing a damage soaker/healer in any form

    are you using single cannons or duals?

    All of my builds are set to do optimized damage while having some sort of support, if you have any in depth questions, I will answer them for you

    One character is on the duals, and my main is on the DHC's, though my Recluse is using the refracting tetryon beams. The idea with her was to soak in the damage while using the beams and fighters to keep shields down, but the shields never really seem to do as nice as they could, so i'm wondering if it's a lack of just pure dps or if the 4 BA's and 1 DBB are just not proccing enough to be useful. this also includes the doff that lets Tractor beam drain shields.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    If we are still talking about voth dreads. They weren't designed to loose their shields.

    If you are talking about other npcs...best thong you can do is post your build...Boff abilities have the biggest impact, and with a recluse using mesh weavers, you can use omega instead of beta...
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    If we are still talking about voth dreads. They weren't designed to loose their shields.

    If you are talking about other npcs...best thong you can do is post your build...Boff abilities have the biggest impact, and with a recluse using mesh weavers, you can use omega instead of beta...

    Why are we thonging NPCs? I mean orions i get but borg and klingons? *shudders*

    But yes their shields do not like going down. Refreacting tets are really a choice, and there are better choices out there, and yes i am using refracting Tets on my Recluse also.

    Do you have a decent spec into flow caps?, that will help, you may want to look into keeping your refracting hyper-dual, and switching your other beams to polarized Tets, that will push a lot of power levels back.

    Another option is adding in the plasmionic leech and some other drain things like Tykens Rift and Energy Siphon, stealing power and getting yourself is always fun.

    The free Breen set, while not the best set adds extra flow caps, and the 3 piece adds an extra energy siphon clicky power.
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lagunadlagunad Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I'm also in the process of trying to put together a damage-heavy PvE Recluse build for my Sci captain.

    I have the Fleet Mesh Weavers, and pretty much any fleet/rep gear is available to me (i.e. I have the necessary rep) although it may take some grinding for the currency to buy them. I think I also have any DOffs that might be worth using (e.g. Purple Techs, Marion), and I have a Plasmonic Leech console too.

    I've read through this thread and a fair amount of other (Wiki) sources.

    I don't understand why the Refracting Tetryons would be good. The vanilla Tetryon proc is fairly weak, and as others have noted, shields tend to drop quickly in STFs without it. The Refracting proc also seems fairly weak to me - it is at best a 2.5% buff, and only if a second target happens to be nearby.

    My inclination at the moment would be to go Plasma or Antiproton. Antiproton would favor a more crit-heavy build, and the bug with FAW would require going with BO instead until its fixed, so I guess my default choice at the moment would be Plasma.

    Although the idea of flying a Sci-heavy ship is somewhat appealing, having only an Ensign Tac slot seems like too much of a sacrifice. So I'm thinking Cdr Tac. Tac abilities probably APO3, FAW3, APB1(?), TacTeam and ?. Probably run 1 Aux2Batt, although there's no particularly compelling alternative for the LtC Eng seat, so maybe 2.

    Elite Fleet Warp Core for the [AMP] + Leech seems mandatory, but the rest of the space accessories are less clear. None of the sets (Shield+Engine+Deflector) really seem that great. The 2/3 MACO + Elite Fleet Deflector would add some nice c/d reductions, but that requires the MACO shield, which screws up Leech. So at the moment, I'm kind of thinking Elite Fleet Engines/Deflector/Shields, which will still give a 10% Sci c/d reduction and other stats not much worse than anything else.

    So this is a rough draft of what I'm thinking at the moment:

    http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=shapelyrecluse_1751

    Tac Consoles would be the Vulnerability Locator variety (not implemented in skill planner).

    3x Purple Tech, plus the TBR reversal DOff, a Warfare Specialist for STFs, and one more TBD when I get the 6th Active slot in a couple weeks (maybe Flight Deck or Grav Aftershock?)

    Weapon damage type and FAW/BO are two big question marks. Also the Engineer seating.

    My captain abilities aren't really optimized for this build, since I want to see how it works out before I retire my Kumari...but the changes are fairly obvious, like getting rid of projectile skills.

    This build also looks a bit squishy, although the c/d reductions on heals should help.

    Feedback appreciated - whatever I do it's gonna cost a ton of fleet credits/dilithium, so I'd like to get it right the first time...
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=minorrectweaks_0
    3 techs, marion, 2 of your choice

    You could swap the dem for.rsp and change marion to a rsp fabrication doff for an oh **** button
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • lagunadlagunad Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=minorrectweaks_0
    3 techs, marion, 2 of your choice

    You could swap the dem for.rsp and change marion to a rsp fabrication doff for an oh **** button

    Not clear to me why I would want/need Marion. With Leech and fairly high-skilled FlowCap, all the other gear that boosts power, and only 5-6 beams (depending on Experimental Plasma), I should be swimming in Power, no? Even with the c/d reductions, his buff has a very small uptime, does it not? I would have thought maybe more appropriate for an BO or DHC type build that hits weapon power levels a lot harder, but even there the uptime seems almost insignificant.

    As I mentioned, running heavy FAW (which doesn't crit) + Anti-protons (whose only perk is extra crit damage) seems like a mistake right now. Of course, they could fix FAW at any time, I suppose, and the fix might actually work instead of making the skill even more gimp/buggy, but...

    How good is DEM on its own merits, if you don't bother with Marion? I think the last time I used it was Season 1 or 2, and it was rather pathetic...

    Now kind of wondering about Eject Warp Plasma as an oddball choice for the LtC Eng. Has some synergy with my PartGen skill/traits/consoles, cooldown is relatively short, and also has some synergy with using Grav Well and reversed TBR to group stuff up for AoE annihilation... hmm...
  • jimqqijimqqi Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    lagunad wrote: »
    Not clear to me why I would want/need Marion. With Leech and fairly high-skilled FlowCap, all the other gear that boosts power, and only 5-6 beams (depending on Experimental Plasma), I should be swimming in Power, no? Even with the c/d reductions, his buff has a very small uptime, does it not? I would have thought maybe more appropriate for an BO or DHC type build that hits weapon power levels a lot harder, but even there the uptime seems almost insignificant.

    As I mentioned, running heavy FAW (which doesn't crit) + Anti-protons (whose only perk is extra crit damage) seems like a mistake right now. Of course, they could fix FAW at any time, I suppose, and the fix might actually work instead of making the skill even more gimp/buggy, but...

    How good is DEM on its own merits, if you don't bother with Marion? I think the last time I used it was Season 1 or 2, and it was rather pathetic.

    There are only so many doffs that actually increase dps. If your power drops below 125 at all marion is a dps increase. That said I plan to get it after everything else because 18% uptime is pretty meh.

    Are you going to get romplas then another set of weapons when they fix faw crits?

    Once again dem is more dps than anything else you can put in the same slot.
    http://i.imgur.com/kn9lhuK.png
    Also marion.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Rom plasma may be the go to type for you, extra power saved through the experimental rom beam array plus an easy to attain 2p plasma set bonus

    Dem and marion give you 8 seconds of awesome, with bfaw draining the way it should be now, those 8 seconds are a huge power boost. Dem by itself is quite Meh

    FAW will be fixed one way or another, if they roll it back, dem+marion probably won't be needed, but for now it gives you a sizable boost
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • lagunadlagunad Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    jimqqi wrote: »
    There are only so many doffs that actually increase dps. If your power drops below 125 at all marion is a dps increase. That said I plan to get it after everything else because 18% uptime is pretty meh.

    I hear you, but he's a dps increase only if your power drops below 125 while DEM is active or off c/d. If his uptime is 18%, surely his DPS impact can't be more than 10% during that time, and probably less if you're not using BO. So 1-2% overall, unless I'm missing something. I mean, if your power is far below 125 a lot of the time, probably something else needs fixing.

    If energy is an issue, even the battery-related DOffs look competitive if not better.

    Anyway, Marion isn't a big decision point - he's not going anywhere, so I can try him if don't come up with a better replacement.
    jimqqi wrote: »
    Are you going to get romplas then another set of weapons when they fix faw crits?

    Well, I'm waiting as long as possible before buying anything. Plasma is kind of known to do respectable damage, but AP + FAW without crits has to be sub-par, so...
    jimqqi wrote: »
    Once again dem is more dps than anything else you can put in the same slot.
    http://i.imgur.com/kn9lhuK.png
    Also marion.

    I'm not in a position to say you're wrong, but it doesn't look so clear-cut to me.
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