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If you could pick just one...
brandonfl
Member Posts: 892
This thread isn't intended to start a flame war or for QQ. What I want to do is try to determine what people feel is most wrong with PvP.
So the question is...
If you could pick just one development decision that Cryptic has made, that has affected PvP negatively (in your opinion, other people's opinions don't matter here, this is about what you feel), and reverse that decision, what would it be?
For me that would be allowing Universal consoles from C-Store Ships to be used on any other ship. This decision started us down a slippery slope where the importance of Captain Class and Ship Class have become extremely diluted.
So the question is...
If you could pick just one development decision that Cryptic has made, that has affected PvP negatively (in your opinion, other people's opinions don't matter here, this is about what you feel), and reverse that decision, what would it be?
For me that would be allowing Universal consoles from C-Store Ships to be used on any other ship. This decision started us down a slippery slope where the importance of Captain Class and Ship Class have become extremely diluted.
LOLSTO
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it has turned PvP into spy vs spy, heavy on the vaper.
All of my non cloaking ships have been practically retired as a result, there is simply no way to compete when everyone on your own team is invisible to your enemy most of the time, leaving you the sole target.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
A very good point. I really felt Cryptic dropped the ball when they introduced Romulans as an alignable faction, and I won't roll one for this very reason and the reasons you stated. Romulan or bust for damage dealers.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Yeah, and this one is tied into my example as well. Unlocking the restrictions on universal consoles was purely a money-grab decision, balance be damned.
Nearly everything else stems from that, all of the other complaints can be encompassed under this umbrella because Cryptic as a company doesn't pursue PvP either not recognizing or simply ignoring how viable and valuable a sustainable PvP environment is for a game.
Very few of the other issues would fester as long as they have here, because they'd be focused on maintaining their PvP environment and those issues would need to be squashed continually to do that.
Hmmm well if it was only PvP and only one decision then I'll go with adding rewards to PvE events over the years without adding any rewards to PvP. There's literally no reason to PvP outside of wanting to PvP.
But if I was to include things that affected the wider game and not just PvP I would choose heretics payed for power.
The reason I don't see Roms as being bad is I have a feeling the alliance thing was a sort do short cut, a band aid if you will to prevent them being a fresh new baby faction with all the horror the KDF had. If Roms stay like this then yeah bad but I have a feeling they will become independent at some point.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Yea, I have a feeling they just didnt want to work out the problems of having three faction queues. But I think its too late for Roms to become independent. The SB and faction specific gear(elite weps/boffs and such) they have already been allowed to use would be pulled out from under their feet and would have to build bases from scratch. I just dont see that happening at this point.
But to the point of the thread. I agree that allowing uni consoles on any ship causes more problem than its worth.
House of Beautiful Orions
PUNISH THE FEDs
The decision to make them universal was a blatant cheap cash grab and ruined a lot of PvP.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
1) The creation of Fed versus Fed ques
2) Not building PvP along the War storyline that was never grown iether.
3) Universal consoles being universal on any ship. They should have remained universal but locked to the ship they exist on.
4) Romulans without their own faction.
R.I.P
*hides*
Nah, if you that's the way you feel, that's the way you feel
3-4 seem to be the most common so far. And I definitely understand why you feel that way about the FvF queues.
Remove DOFFs from the game, and I think it will go a long way in preventing a lot of the builds that become too OP in PvP.
There are so many builds that that people complain about, and from where I stand, each of those builds would not be effective without DOFFs.
Yep, I know, the DOFFs won't ever be removed, but I think it was the start of the PvP breakdown, and in my opinion, was the worst thing that happened.
Obsidian
That decision, and that decision alone, has led to what we have today.
They did add a lot of powers to NPCs around F2P. They nerfed them from QQ if I recall.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
To get some perspective here's a thread I found from shortly after C-Store started expanding. The paying for power isn't part of that thread. It gives some insight regarding what issues were brought up before then.
I chuckled being reminded of the no auto teaming on zoning.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=199143
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
The fact that NPCs do not obey rules results in fighting them being not at all like fighting an actual player's ship, creating an extremely jarring transition. THAT is the big mistake, one that was made way early, that merely "adding a few powers" does not fix.
Imagine if every single NPC that matched an actual playable ship was actually equipped exactly like a playable ship, using powers just like a player's ship, etc., such that what you saw the ship do in the hands of an NPC more or less matched what a player would do with the same ship.
I think that's the first big one I can point at that effected so much else.
Uni consoles... would have been more balanced if there where D returns on shield resists as hull resists would have been more important and console slots less "cheap", I think in that regards the lockbox ships and the fleet ships should NOT have gotten extra console slots either... the uni consoles are fine really... imo its people being able to run 3-4 and still keep there perfect shields and high hull resist and defense values. Also the sci console and resist changes... I would have liked to have seen a few of the resistances added to the tree not added there... but added in the form of science consoles. There would have been more incentive to not use the sci slots on the ships as Uni console dumping grounds.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3513798#post3513798
kinda miss BRJ dropping multi-math posts in threadnaughts.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
You could argue I did two things, but I'm putting em both under the same umbrella.
Those two things, but I feel rep is the worse one, have majorly and I do mean MAJORLY raised the bar to PvP.
Heck, I remember the talks when rep was first being added, I'm sure many of us do, which basically boiled down to 'this rep system, especially as more reps are added are going to significantly raise the bar to be able to PvP', and shock of all shocks, we were right.
Starbases...it kinda depends. If you have a huge high tier fleet, obviously you have access to ir, or if you use a public service channel, you can get it as well. Even so, there's TONS of stuff you can get from all of that, like Elite Fleet Shields, Elite pets, fleet consoles, etc. Rep is bad not so much because of the gear, but the time you must wait, and the passives it provides for free as you level all of them up.
Plus it's all a giant grind anyways, which certainly doesn't help.
If I could remove the starbase and rep systems, and just have something similar to the old Task Force Omega system for the various PvE things, I would without a second thought.
I wasn't around for that, but still, they got their point across, didn't they?
All of this is covered under my first post, except this is a small slice under the giant umbrella that casts a shadow over all PvP in this game.
Cryptic's games have always seen the player become more, and more powerful carving through waves of PvE enemies. It caters to a very specific hero fantasy demographic. PvP is usually at most an afterthought, and there generally isn't even that much of a PvE endgame as far as MMOs tend to use the term.
That thread...
"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."
Fed Vs Klingon.
Now let me explain what I mean..
Yes there should have been a Fed side vs a Klingon side. But the Fed faction vs the klingon Faction, where you can only Be a Fed Faction vs a Klingon Faction was a mistake.
They should have allowed for Feds and Klingons to team up, but be on opposing sides.. Because who says every member of the Federation believes the Federation is right? And who is to say that every Klingon Pilot believes that the Klingon Empire is right? Also what about Temporary alliances being formed?
Now, I'm refering mostly to Queues of course in that respect.. but this could go further, with the example of Ker'rat's bug of where you could switch sides.
What if that had not been a bug, but a feature.. Where yes it was the Klingons vs the Feds, but you could be a Klingon who belieives the Federation is in the right, or a Federation captian who believes in what the Klingons are fighting for in a more respectful manor..?
So, I feel they went the wrong way trying to shoe horn a WoW Like Faction system into STO for PVP. Especaily when STO isn't always as Black and White..
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
the biggest problem with the game as a whole, like i saw mentioned a bit, is npcs being like some sthing from some other game completely. not really interested in an excuse of oh this is an mmo, and mods are always mento to be squashed and famed for pelts or something. this isnt another ground pounding fanticy rpg, this is science fiction in space when everything you shoot at is a starship with hundreds to thousands of people on them. in this game you are your mount, and it is a combination of hundreds of factors all working together to produce all its output. compared to that, space npcs are mud craps from world of failcraft or something.
npcs should have 5- 8 weapons, and 5 to 8 station powers. including heals, and EPt skills they cycle for full up time. remove the lol damage and hitpoint modifiers that bloat them, and make them as close to player ships as possible. also lower the number you fight at once from 4 or 5 to 1 or 2. maybe have ship disengage at 25% hull more often then stick around and die too. at the end of any random mission i should not have blown up 10+ ships and killed 50k people wile i grind marks. thats kind of disturbing when you think about it.
oh, heres one thing. the red vs blue. nothing holds back the kdf more then the pvp ques being down faction lines. so often i get to tired of waiting for a pop on my kdf so i switch to my fed instead. it cant play my kdf as much or more then my fed if i wanted too. just liek the higher stat level the kdf used to have, that could even be reversed one day when the kdf actually became healthy thanks to that change. if they had gotten rid of that a long time ago, we wouldnt have this lame allies TRIBBLE for the romulans. the only down side to that would be square 1 starbases for rom faction
Compare SFC, which has symmetrical behavior for both players and NPCs. When you fight an NPC ship, aside from being flown by an idiot, it is exactly the same as your own ship. As such, when you take it into PvP, you're already accustomed to fighting enemies that are tougher than the average PUG.
the lack of professional pvp groups _without_ cheesy setups.
imo there are too many so called "professional pvp players / teams" using area affecting and game breaking effects (tif, sic, scramble doffs, too many not shown plasma trails, ams ...) and the newest fotm setup (mostly with a broken mechanic)
cryptic offers this TRIBBLE, but it is always the gamers decission to use it, or ignore it.
You know I said something like this about how the grind was boring blah blah blah. Then one of my fleeties, may even have been one of the few PvPers, pointed out that without it we would all probably have left the game already.
I mean they could have added more content but when you look at how much they had done of the star base when it was released (T5 stuff wasn't even decided upon in terms of what elite weapons do etc) we would most likely have all chomped it up and left due to the trickling nature.
I don't want to admit it but without the grind I would not be here today, some might say that's a good thing, others a bad, take it for what you will.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.