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naz4
Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
Just a thought or a question for people.
Should there be a max cap damage for each weapon or ability in the pvp side of STO only factoring in what is going on right now with power creep?
Let me explain:
Should an ion beam on a Mogai be able to hit for 100k+, BO3 HIT for 60k+ or should the ion beam have a max cap of 30k and BO3 20k (numbers for example only)? Only variation to this rule could be:
The GDF where it could scale up to 100% (starting at 75%) more based on when the GDF is popped. This would force people to use multiple abilities to kill their targets or work as a team to kill.
Sensor scan for up to 50% more based on skill tree spec. (No additional bonus for multiple scans)
40 to 70% for nadion inversion based on a "dice roll"
The're would still be vapors out there but they would need loads more support to kill maintaining the vaper aspect of the game but encourage more team based play.
This thinking might ruffle a few feathers, but would be lesss hostile for pugs or newcomers to PvP.
Would this not help achieve the "fun" TTK a dev once mentioned?
Should there be a max cap damage for each weapon or ability in the pvp side of STO only factoring in what is going on right now with power creep?
Let me explain:
Should an ion beam on a Mogai be able to hit for 100k+, BO3 HIT for 60k+ or should the ion beam have a max cap of 30k and BO3 20k (numbers for example only)? Only variation to this rule could be:
The GDF where it could scale up to 100% (starting at 75%) more based on when the GDF is popped. This would force people to use multiple abilities to kill their targets or work as a team to kill.
Sensor scan for up to 50% more based on skill tree spec. (No additional bonus for multiple scans)
40 to 70% for nadion inversion based on a "dice roll"
The're would still be vapors out there but they would need loads more support to kill maintaining the vaper aspect of the game but encourage more team based play.
This thinking might ruffle a few feathers, but would be lesss hostile for pugs or newcomers to PvP.
Would this not help achieve the "fun" TTK a dev once mentioned?
Post edited by naz4 on
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Ok, ok, less jokes. I dunno, I mean these massive hits are pointless to me as you know but I do see the value where it's harder to kill someone and getting kills is needed.
On the one hand it would solve some problems with certain things stacking in ways that make them way too powerful in the hands of a tactical captain but useless to other captains.
However it would put an end to the lone vaper and make 1v1 essentially dead or almost impossible to get the kill without immaculate timing which would increase the curve substantially for new players.
Incidentally I am thinking of something which would demonstrate this really well, I just need to get the many pieces together and do a bit of testing on my guinea pigs....I mean fleeties.
The problem is and always has been the stacking of buffs though, most noticeably the ones only a tactical captain has. I'm not going to have this discussion of it's their role etc, that's not the point. The point is the way things stack they just keep going and in some cases even multiply and give huge bonuses by stacking.
Which then leads to the current fawball as everyone calls it, 1 faw cruiser on a team, meh. 2 of them, hmm a bit of pressure, nice to see. 5 on the team and it's "OMFG MY FACE IS MELTING!!"
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
BPharma is OP, please nerf.
But on a real note, Capping actual damage no, capping Crit stacking yes. Like say You have 4 Boffs all with Sup Op, only one applies, came with all the other space traits, like efficiancy and Leadership.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Then, from seemingly out of nowhere, comes me in the FTER. De-cloak, tractor, alpha...if I don't vape them myself, I've left them as good as dead for the "fed ball" to clean-up.
A great way to shut-up those "6 v 1 and you still can't kill me" type of zone chat spammers...
RCK
but if someone says no to the capping, that only means he is a tac, and definitely, there is nothing wrong with 100k rams and 75k crit proton barrage instapops for them
I play mostly Sci and Engs in Sci ships. And i say no to capping. Where is your arguement now?
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
proc placates
rom boffs (buff all other boffs instead of nerfing these)
scimitars+ beam arrays
^op
Remove the cloak cooldown reduction on them. I have to spend out the TRIBBLE (in boff powers and awareness) to decloak a cloaker, and he can just recloak in 11 seconds anyway.
Klingons did just fine with 20 second cloaks; so should Roms.
Remove the defense value, or at least don't make it stack anymore.
Reduce the crit chance values across the board for the boffs.
Getting relatively cheap Rom boffs should be enough compared to going through the FC grind that Feds or KDF have to go through to get them.
Perhaps there could be some method of making diminishing returns beyond a certain point possible for damage, something like how resists are "diminishing" in a sense? Thus it would be possible to push damage high, but you'd have to sacrifice to do it.
But eh, discussions like this get kinda tiring and turn into a trollfest more often than not, so I'll just leave this here
the higher crit values got necessesary, due to the new t4 resistence buff. it would be nice when theses resistence would be removed. an overload 3 with omega, alfa, tactical fleet and gdf, hitting on the last 5% hull and dealing with luck 2000 points of damage, is really! ridiculous.
I tried it for myself. The combination of ISO and Ion-Beam is enough to insta-blow a target. I didnt fire a single weapon!
Vaping by using cheese shows lack of skill imo. Its far too much free damage, and the ISO has 100% hit chance and cant hardly resisted since it is electrical damage (i think you can resist it with neutronium tho)
Obviously this is addressing PvP in general and all we have are PvP matches so the question should be what is balance. The mess has been made we all have various different toys/skills to our liking it now falls on Cryptic to make it so the matches we have are balanced and with the mess they have made god alone knows how they will accomplish this.
I think Cryptic look at PvP like that spare room/garage that most people have, the one that is full of junk. They know they have to tidy it some day but why do today what you can put off until tomorrow !
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
no heals, every doff and set item dedicated to it. i think if i lower the par of damage u need to kill me, i should be ALE to kill you at all. ask pixel tide about surviving burst. there should be no "caps"\
in a game with tons of immunity items, skills thta let u turn invisible and non targetable, or just jump away. you should be able to kill them before they activate such a special. and if u catch them by surprise, have loaded ur skills and buffs to the max, and managed to survive long enuff to fire, u deserve victory.
cap damagE? CAP RECEIVED HEALS! HOW MANY TIMES OVER SHOULD UR ENTIRE HULL BE ABLE TO BE HEALED PER SECOND>
remind me not to host any pvp games, explain how things work, or try to help people whpo only disregard ur advice, continue to use only heals, and then cry that u do 10 times their dmg.
/rant off
by the way the max potential damage is way over 100k try 1 million damage per single attack
death to these lying loses. the oens who use tif, rom cloak, ams, every cheeseo ut there every time they get alphaed!
This was in the game. It was taken out. They are starting to put that back into the game, it's just a bit slow. That and of course it is being done a tad unevenly, but it is there.
The numbers/examples that you're using aren't game mechanics. STO doesn't quite work like that. On the other hand I'm certainly not going to go over the underlying mechanics...again. From here I think its best to go on the "you either get it, or you don't" system and leave it at that.
And this: "I remember the days when all it took to blow up someone was a decloak alpha + CRF + High yield torpedo + tractor.
That was 2 years ago I think ."
A bit more than that. But you didn't need a tractor. Good times.
WHO. are you killing? i remember that one time u accidentally got into arena thissler, good times..
one single bo3 non crit can kill someone post snb (no buffs). that leaves the ship with another 10 ways to kill someone at the same level of defensive preparation. that same player could expend his entire load all hits many crits and still not kill someone *good* (renim)
I love this guy. He's got it cold though. There is no TTL or TTK in a game that uses mechanics in the way that STO does. Seriously folks, were talking a game where your HIT RATE can swing from 100% to 25% for extended periods of time INSIDE of combat.
TTL in this type of game is effectively seconds, or eternity. Get over it. It is what it is. You NEED to stop using terms to describe things ins STO that don't exist in a meaningful way. All it does is hinder your understanding.
*applause* very wide range of possible outcomes. from 0 (miss) to you died
It makes a difference. Tric mines were effortless to get, and nearly effortless to use, yet would yield insane numbers in PvE and PvP.
If Mini uses his Proton Barrage, how much has he given up to get those insane 50k or more hits? And how often do they happen even then?
Graviton Pulse is easily gotten and used, requiring little timing to use, and only needing a console slot, yet can hold down a whole team potentially and force them to either wait it out, or waste engy teams to clear it.
Doesn't mean everything is OP just because anyone can easily get it, but it's more a case of how much of a difference can it make in a match if it can really affect the outcome.
OMG I don't think I've used a cannon alpha in over two years.
So I'm not killing anyone. Peace and love is where I'm at!!:)
Actually, those terms were used by the Devs themselves in this section of the forum. That is where it originated.
I don't think caps are the answer though.
Honestly I would rather see them simply **** things like ion beams isos the 2001 defense consoles off in pvp... at least arenas. Give us a PvP paper doll... force us to all choose from the same pool of pvp gear and make that the standard for arena pvp... leave kerrat and hopefuly a new open pvp zone as free wild wests where people can enjoy there pve and p2w toys.
This is an important point.
Whether the game or not actually allows those definitions to fit within the framework tends to swing like a pendulum, but the important point is those are the concepts the devs themselves are designing things (and the environment) with in mind.
For example, pushing towards a more defender-friendly TTK was most likely one of the major factors behind the double tap changes.
A bit like LoL but maintaining the core reason we play STO for PvP?
Ya think of a system similer to the gw2 system ... where our arena could almost be an esport style game. Where no one could ever blame gear as an issue... anyone wanting to not grind and come in and play on equal terms could do just that.
In GW2 the open world pvp is much better developed then stos no doubt... but the concept is the same. In those zones anything goes... pve gear is fine. No p2w gear there but in sto if it is allowed there so be it. Kerrat would basicly go unchanged... and if people want to continue padding there egos blowing up farmers in those zones with ion beam overload iso combos they can do just that.
It would be nice to see cryptic do something like that and really be able to push a "esport" style game... if they took the time to create a pvp zone on par with the new voth pve zones that could be open... we would all still have a reason to grind the pve junks that they feel they feel they must keep us hooked on.
Are your hands shaking, Mini? I wonder why that is ...
Though to me it's selling more fun toys to mess around with but to never use on people in PvP outside of hypothetical "what if" things. Kinda like what I asked Naz about earlier. My curiosity is satisfied so I will perhaps test it at my leisure now.
Btw thanks Naz
Incidentally mini, there's nothing wrong with rom battle cloak if it's used to follow someone around in kerrat using fireworks and never ever attack them even when they attack you.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.