A decent fix would be to allow for phasers to knockout 2 random subsystems with each proc, that or get rid of the stupid 10sec lockout for next proc that is currently in use. :mad:
A decent fix would be to allow for phasers to knockout 2 random subsystems with each proc, that or get rid of the stupid 10sec lockout for next proc that is currently in use. :mad:
Well the thing with the lockout is that it's target-side (I think) but it's to protect against full phaser teams, afterall one can imagine how bad that could get :P
I stand by my Enhanced Phaser Beam Array, as part of the set I included with it it mitigates two problems in one go. And that's just the weapon type, that doesn't include the ship problems that are mitigated by the set.
1) A 5 second proc cap that prevents chained multi-subsystem disables. Subsystem disable durations were nerfed a while ago, so the 5 second cap can probably be shortened to 3 seconds without any serious game play impact.
2) There is currently no phaser damage buffing equipment set. However, all other energy weapons have some kind of damage increasing gear outside of tac-consoles.
-Disruptors have the Elachi Space Weapon Set
-Anti-protons have the Obelisk Core + Omni Directional Beam Array
-Tetryons have the Nukara Munitions set
-Polarons have the Jem'Hadar space set
-Plasmas have the Romulan Singularity Harness Set
So, when will Cryptic provide the feds with a space set that buffs phasers??? The latter seems it's long overdue...
EDIT: How about giving phasers a small kinetic damage component? Phasers are particle weapons, so they should be able to deal more damage against exposed hulls. This bonus kinetic damage need not be much... perhaps 5% or similar. Such a small amount would not be game-breaking but still grant increased damage performance.
I think phasers are fine. People need to remember that when they hit npcs with them and they get the proc, that unless it's a shield, they won't really 'see' an effect. Phasers have been presented as a precision weapon, and the subsystem disable reflects that.
Another thing to bear in mind: Any changes to a weapon type are also carried over to npcs. Think about that. Think about all those missions where you face phaser fire. Now think about what would happen when you factor in any weapon changes.
There was a reason that phaser procs had a cooldown added. People were getting shut down constantly by npc fire in fleet events (also Mirror Invasion Event). Being rendered completely helpless against an npc fleet was NOT fun.
Yes: ONE guy packing phasers, is meh. When you're in a fight with 5 carriers spamming 6 fighters, Fleet Support, and Photonic Fleet, or about 800 Mirror Terrans, THEN things get UGLY.
I think Phasers and their proc are fine though there is a decidedly missing third party set that influences and buffs phasers ingame.
I vote they create an Aegis console that buffs phasers in some fashion.
I think phasers are fine. People need to remember that when they hit npcs with them and they get the proc, that unless it's a shield, they won't really 'see' an effect. Phasers have been presented as a precision weapon, and the subsystem disable reflects that.
Another thing to bear in mind: Any changes to a weapon type are also carried over to npcs. Think about that. Think about all those missions where you face phaser fire. Now think about what would happen when you factor in any weapon changes.
There was a reason that phaser procs had a cooldown added. People were getting shut down constantly by npc fire in fleet events (also Mirror Invasion Event). Being rendered completely helpless against an npc fleet was NOT fun.
Hell the tholians along with romulans constantly spam me with subsystem knockouts as it is, so it really doesn't bother me.
Well the thing with the lockout is that it's target-side (I think) but it's to protect against full phaser teams, afterall one can imagine how bad that could get :P
I stand by my Enhanced Phaser Beam Array, as part of the set I included with it it mitigates two problems in one go. And that's just the weapon type, that doesn't include the ship problems that are mitigated by the set.
Full phaser teams may sound good, but odds are you would still have teammates with some form of disruptor or polaron proc to aid the team.
The damage output difference between an buffed weapontype and an non-buffed meanwhile is too high
I think there's a basic misunderstanding of those buffs.
That +7.6% Disruptor/Plasma that you mention...those are to base damage.
DHCs for example...have a base damage of 174. So the +7.6% is an increase of +13.224 DPV. If you're at 125 Weapon Power, you're getting +33.06 DPV. Add in APA3, APO3, Rombush, EPtW1...+69.426 DPV. Give it a 200% CrtD, +208.278 DPV! Heck, mount 5x DHCs for +1041.39 DPV from firing all five!
Yeah, it's miniscule. Sure, it can add up over a period of time...but TT1 with full crew gives a +9% boost to base damage by comparison.
It's not a "final damage" modifier - it's not +7.6% damage before the target applies resists or anything of the sort.
So the damage output difference between a buffed and non-buffed...being too high...well, I suppose that's a matter of perspective.
Mind you, the 2pc Obelisk set that provides +10% AP damage...that's not base damage. That's post Weapon Power damage. It's one of two such gear boosts in the game, with the other being the 2pc T'varo set and its bonus to projectiles. 2pc Disruptor, 2pc Plasma, Sci Consoles, 2pc KHG, 2pc Temporal, etc, etc, etc...are base damage.
I think there's a basic misunderstanding of those buffs.
That +7.6% Disruptor/Plasma that you mention...those are to base damage.
DHCs for example...have a base damage of 174. So the +7.6% is an increase of +13.224 DPV. If you're at 125 Weapon Power, you're getting +33.06 DPV. Add in APA3, APO3, Rombush, EPtW1...+69.426 DPV. Give it a 200% CrtD, +208.278 DPV! Heck, mount 5x DHCs for +1041.39 DPV from firing all five!
Yeah, it's miniscule. Sure, it can add up over a period of time...but TT1 with full crew gives a +9% boost to base damage by comparison.
It's not a "final damage" modifier - it's not +7.6% damage before the target applies resists or anything of the sort.
So the damage output difference between a buffed and non-buffed...being too high...well, I suppose that's a matter of perspective.
Mind you, the 2pc Obelisk set that provides +10% AP damage...that's not base damage. That's post Weapon Power damage. It's one of two such gear boosts in the game, with the other being the 2pc T'varo set and its bonus to projectiles. 2pc Disruptor, 2pc Plasma, Sci Consoles, 2pc KHG, 2pc Temporal, etc, etc, etc...are base damage.
Yeah I need to get that T'varo 2 piece for...something evil I am planning. It is also worth saying that while these +7.6% base damage things can make a difference buffed as above a lot of them force you to run sets which may cost you in other areas so it's always a case of balancing +damage against +survivability. Also that obelisk set is incredible for AP weapons, kinda glad it's a warp core not a sing core...imagine the scimitar with that!!
OT: Phasers perhaps could do with that or just have their proc lockout rolled back a tad, in 1s increments till it's OK. You have to remember it was mighty annoying when they didn't have a lock out and you were being shot by 20+ beams...yeah it was like having someone spam VM at you.
A 360 Omni [insert energy here] beam would be great. Make it just like the others, a unique weapon so you can only slot one. I was really glad for the Anitproton Omni due to running Antiprotons alot. But yes very much needed, it doesnt need a set bonus or anything just the unique omni beam would be great.
I like phasers, i do. But the Proc is well, less than favorable. In a world of plasma and - damage resistance. Most procs are realistically better, some can even be improved upon by certain things, like polarons and tetryons by flow caps.
Phasers need somthing....more. A chance to disable a random system for not very long is poor.
Disruptors get a 2.5 for 10% debuff for 15 seconds, phasers get 2.5 to disable for 5 seconds.
Just disparity between the two base weapons is ridiculous.
Hmm. Perhaps make it possible to choose which subsystem to disable for 5 second? Similar to the target subsystem tac abilities. Or leave it as it is now and increase the duration.
Yeah I need to get that T'varo 2 piece for...something evil I am planning. It is also worth saying that while these +7.6% base damage things can make a difference buffed as above a lot of them force you to run sets which may cost you in other areas so it's always a case of balancing +damage against +survivability. Also that obelisk set is incredible for AP weapons, kinda glad it's a warp core not a sing core...imagine the scimitar with that!!
Heh, even so - it's kind of pesky having to bind around the propensity for the OD Turret to steal the BO from your DBB if you're running one. On the other hand, that OD Turret is nifty for a Sci Vessel that might be running Torps but still wants that 360 Subsystem Targeting.
It may have come off that I was discounting the Energy Boosts, while not quite speaking up about the Kinetic Boosts...but yeah, with a T'varo...well...
4x [+Torp] Advanced giving +27.9% each instead of +20% you'd get from Warheads...for +111.6% Torp base damage; KHG 2pc +25% Torp base damage; 2pc Protonic for +22.9% Photon base damage (& +3% CrtH); 2pc Temporal for +27.4% Chron base damage (& +0.76% CrtH/+7.6% CrtD); 2pc T'varo for +10% non-base damage...you can definitely have a bit of fun. Wish the Voth Chrons were in the Rep Store...oh well.
OT: Phasers perhaps could do with that or just have their proc lockout rolled back a tad, in 1s increments till it's OK. You have to remember it was mighty annoying when they didn't have a lock out and you were being shot by 20+ beams...yeah it was like having someone spam VM at you.
Yeah, the old non-immunity thing was painful in that way. TBH, though, I despise the Phaser proc as something that should be left to activated abilities rather than a random proc. Always figured that Phasers should have increased bleed.."modern" phasers having the built in frequency adjustment sort of thing to increase the impact of their damage and all.
There's little doubt, imho, that somewhere down the road there will be a set for Phaser - but they need to spread things out. If everything was done at once, then what would there be to do? They've said they've got even bigger plans for 2014 than 2013...should be an interesting year.
I haven`read tru all posts in this thread, but... aren`t the phasers the ONLY weapon in STO that have chance of disabeling shiled systems?? Why buffs than? Take 2 nasty sci pilots w/disable/drain bulds, 1 tac w/ any wepon type, N 1 healer. Viola, you just made your vape dream team.. But power is too low... Oh wait, is it rly?.
I think Phasers and their proc are fine though there is a decidedly missing third party set that influences and buffs phasers ingame.
I vote they create an Aegis console that buffs phasers in some fashion.
That wouldn't be a bad idea. It should be a lobi store item though to make it on par with the elachi set cost wise.
The elachi set though is kind of ungainly and is selectively useful. The torpedo is meh, and the high yield version would be faster if it took a bus.
Hell the tholians along with romulans constantly spam me with subsystem knockouts as it is, so it really doesn't bother me.
Completely different. Subsystem targeting has a cooldown. Even NPCs that use subystem targeting have the cooldown.
The phaser proc had no such cooldown. So the result was you could be rendered helpless as long as you remained under fire.
It's obvious you have never had this happen to you. I have, and it sucks. Having your shields go down yet again after your EPtS and batteries are cooldown, while you are subjected to torpedo strikes from HY torpedos, or from torpedo spreads is lots and lots of fun....really.
Evasive Maneu..[Engines Offline].
No Aux? No problem... just forget about healing and think about what your lunch/dinner menu should be while you are respawning.
That is why they put the phaser proc cooldown. They could stack with no diminishing returns and no cooldowns.
It's all well and good to want to deal more damage and be awesome, but some thought should be put in on how much fun it would be to receive it enmasse.
Here is a much older thread that describes some of the issue from the PvP forums. Do not disregard it because it's in the PvP section. Everything about the proc applies to PvE as well.
That wouldn't be a bad idea. It should be a lobi store item though to make it on par with the elachi set cost wise.
The elachi set though is kind of ungainly and is selectively useful. The torpedo is meh, and the high yield version would be faster if it took a bus.
Completely different. Subsystem targeting has a cooldown. Even NPCs that use subystem targeting have the cooldown.
The phaser lockout had no such cooldown. So the result was you could be rendered helpless as long as you remained under fire.
It's obvious you have never had this happen to you. I have, and it sucks. Having your shields go down yet again after your EPtS and batteries are cooldown, while you are subjected to torpedo strikes from HY torpedos, or from torpedo spreads is lots and lots of fun....really.
Evasive Maneu..[Engines Offline].
No Aux? No problem... just forget about healing and think about what your lunch/dinner menu should be while you are respawning.
That is why they put the phaser proc cooldown. They could stack with no diminishing returns and no cooldowns.
It's all well and good to want to deal more damage and be awesome, but some thought should be put in on how much fun it would be to receive it enmasse.
Here is a much older thread that describes some of the issue from the PvP forums. Do not disregard it because it's in the PvP section. Everything about the proc applies to PvE as well.
Im 50/50 with this.
But the lockout wasnt the way to go, making it so it couldnt have more than 2 stacks of a system offline at a time. So you could say, knockout engines and Shields, and nothing else for 10s.
The Duration is too short, and the lockout too long. No other weapon is hobbled so, they have an amount of stack that is capped.
Now most people arent asking for a new proc or changes to it (while it might be nice) a set to buff the phasers with a 2 piece and some 3 piece technobabble would be acceptable.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
But the lockout wasnt the way to go, making it so it couldnt have more than 2 stacks of a system offline at a time. So you could say, knockout engines and Shields, and nothing else for 10s.
The Duration is too short, and the lockout too long. No other weapon is hobbled so, they have an amount of stack that is capped.
Now most people arent asking for a new proc or changes to it (while it might be nice) a set to buff the phasers with a 2 piece and some 3 piece technobabble would be acceptable.
10 seconds is forever when it's the player who is affected.
As I previously stated, I have no issues with a set bonus increasing phaser damage, since this would not affect NPC weapon fire.
The phaser proc is being discussed here (in this thread) as being subpar, with people, including you, wanting to modify the proc in some way (either in duration, removing the lockout, number of subsystems disabled per proc, etc.). So yes, they are asking for a change to it.
I want people to realize that this may have undesirable consequences for their PvE experience. Why change something, then have to go back later and change it again because change A had an undesireable affect? Why do that when another solution (like a console or a set bonus) would be more effective in terms of giving players the boost they desire, while not turning npc's into juggernauts.
Bear in mind that I am not just talking about end game content, but the leveling missions as well, where you generally don't have access to top gear, or full skill allocations.
Yeah I need to get that T'varo 2 piece for...something evil I am planning. It is also worth saying that while these +7.6% base damage things can make a difference buffed as above a lot of them force you to run sets which may cost you in other areas so it's always a case of balancing +damage against +survivability. Also that obelisk set is incredible for AP weapons, kinda glad it's a warp core not a sing core...imagine the scimitar with that!!
I love the beachball of DOOM!!! T'Varo makes for a fun kinetic build. Fire beachball, then gravwell as soon as they make their pitiful attempt to escape. MWAHAAHAH!!!!! I'm not sure how many times I did that to shards in the last CC event.
OT: Phasers perhaps could do with that or just have their proc lockout rolled back a tad, in 1s increments till it's OK. You have to remember it was mighty annoying when they didn't have a lock out and you were being shot by 20+ beams...yeah it was like having someone spam VM at you.
Ugh... I remember. It was a PITA, especially vs fighters with phasers! The damage was nothing.... until your subsystems started crashing constantly....
I see your point but equally I see the other side of it and while I don't take issue with the phaser proc immunity caused upon recovery I do take issue with the fact that it isn't extended by subspace decompiler, my viral matrix can take down systems for 13.8 seconds, it can come back and it can spread (and repeat) that is far more dangerous than the phaser proc and it doesn't come with an immunity afterwards.
If the above link was made and the set I featured in this post was implemented, phaser proc would be something to take serious attention of, it would also make it a more appealing option to federation cruisers as it comes with a speed and turn buff, it would also give a reason to run a torp on some more mobile cruisers. it also benefits the phaser proc by extending it a second or two, what's more is that buffs phaser damage... That said I can't really think of a downside to it if you run phasers or sci.
Additional Accuracy is a tough one because of how variable the results of it could be. Somebody might just miss less while the guy in the Scimitar that parked the target will just wreck it that much more because of Accuracy Overflow on top of all the other CrtD/CrtH they bleed.
Trying to look at Consoles to see if they're balanced is a tough one - I try to avoid it, lol. Cause not only is it a case of trying to check it against other single consoles, you've got to take into account set bonuses, etc, etc, etc - becomes pretty damn cumbersome (besides, Cryptic folks get paid to do it - I don't...lalalala).
As for the Final Modifier thing - that's also a tough one, imho. Cause with the T'varo 2pc, it somewhat made sense since it was restricted to the T'varo. The Obelisk stuff brings that to any non-Warbird (AM Core). Which begs the question of should the other set bonuses be changed (balanced in the process) to be similar non-Base modifiers like the Obelisk set. That being said though, one would have to balance for the ease of access to the sets...and all the rest.
I do figure that we'll see some Phaser stuff this year...figure we'll see all sorts of stuff this year, given all the stuff we saw last year compared to the year before.
And i have replaced them with Exchange bought tetryons and increased my DPs by about 35% doing the STfs and other PvE content they just are not putting out the damage other weapons do
For PvE I say phasers are the worst energy weapon in the game and have removed them from all of my ships replaced with other types that do much more damage
perhaps cryptic is nerfing things or breaking things in the background and not telling us but i have noticed a large drop in phaser DPS about 1 month ago in PvE
Advanced weapons from the starbase outclass Elite phasers in every way in PvE as well Wosrt waste of fleet credits i have ever spent
phasers may be good for PvP but are the last place weapon for PvE
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I see your point but equally I see the other side of it and while I don't take issue with the phaser proc immunity caused upon recovery I do take issue with the fact that it isn't extended by subspace decompiler, my viral matrix can take down systems for 13.8 seconds, it can come back and it can spread (and repeat) that is far more dangerous than the phaser proc and it doesn't come with an immunity afterwards.
If the above link was made and the set I featured in this post was implemented, phaser proc would be something to take serious attention of, it would also make it a more appealing option to federation cruisers as it comes with a speed and turn buff, it would also give a reason to run a torp on some more mobile cruisers. it also benefits the phaser proc by extending it a second or two, what's more is that buffs phaser damage... That said I can't really think of a downside to it if you run phasers or sci.
Ok I do think that phasers should be boosted by subspace decomplier (I don't know why they are not). I was under the impression, somewhere in the back of my head, that they were. But I checked the description of the skills that affect phasers and decompiler isn't listed. So yes, I agree that should be changed, as it has no bearing on NPC fire.
As for sets and set bonuses I agree that there should be something. But at the same time, I don't think the Elachi set is all that wonderful (I have the set on a Monbosh). Yes, the disruptor bonus is nice, but there are other things that would work better(not convinced the set was worth 600 lobis). I think a Phaser set should be set along those lines too, where you are forced to ask yourself...is it really worth it?
I think a Phaser set should be set along those lines too, where you are forced to ask yourself...is it really worth it?
I confess I am a cruiser pilot on my main and at the moment I have a focus on getting speed out of the thing so I decided to add to the short list of things that add to ship speed, the obvious thing to go with that is turn rate, I also incorporated a little Galaxy into it with the 3 piece bonus, I fear it may be too phaser/cruiser focussed but it is a fed based thing... maybe a Cardi rep? They use phasers afterall... :P
Honestly, I can't see a use for the set itself on an escort (though I can't say I aimed it at them) but it's worth it for a disable based build or a fed cruiser with a canon theme or any other theme for that matter :P
Additional Accuracy is a tough one because of how variable the results of it could be. Somebody might just miss less while the guy in the Scimitar that parked the target will just wreck it that much more because of Accuracy Overflow on top of all the other CrtD/CrtH they bleed.
Mmm... The way I saw it was that in pvp you can find so many ways to boost defence and if you need more you can fly around it but in pve... well A2B threw any semblance of balance out of that virtual window long ago. The main reason I went with extra accuracy was to go with the federation advanced sensors theme.
Trying to look at Consoles to see if they're balanced is a tough one - I try to avoid it, lol. Cause not only is it a case of trying to check it against other single consoles, you've got to take into account set bonuses, etc, etc, etc - becomes pretty damn cumbersome (besides, Cryptic folks get paid to do it - I don't...lalalala).
I get that, it was tough trying to decide on the numbers, I referenced a few consoles and the cost of getting the compared to their effects (I used the Tachyo and Lobi Elachi consoles as my reference points), I used almost 50% of the values to keep it out of the Loi shop. (dear me I hate that currency) the main thing from my point of view was to give it a unique flavour while keeping out of the Lobi store and balanced, quite hard to do lol
As for the Final Modifier thing - that's also a tough one, imho. Cause with the T'varo 2pc, it somewhat made sense since it was restricted to the T'varo. The Obelisk stuff brings that to any non-Warbird (AM Core). Which begs the question of should the other set bonuses be changed (balanced in the process) to be similar non-Base modifiers like the Obelisk set. That being said though, one would have to balance for the ease of access to the sets...and all the rest.
Given the way things are and how the Jemmy set (as a primary example) is put down as only being good if you run Polarons, which is fair, and should be dropped as soon as you get access to another set, I think that set buffs to energy types should be normalised using the Obelisk set buff to APs as the template, it would make calculations and balancing them easier thereby removing more FOTM-ness from the game. Though I would keep any "All dmg" buffs at a base level as they are generic I could see them getting out of hand.
I'm not sure how I'd go about availability balancing, hmm... perhaps the first ever fleet set? No... the stats are very rep like... maybe it should be in the next rep track, I think that would work.
I do figure that we'll see some Phaser stuff this year...figure we'll see all sorts of stuff this year, given all the stuff we saw last year compared to the year before.
Even if we may see a set bonus in the distant future (however that may look), IMHO one question still remains : Are phaser weapons really an option, if you have to wait until you become level 50 and you have to buy an expensive set, just to get this weapon type equal to the others?
The whole set discussion is my opinion nothing more than just an attempt to cure the symptoms, not the root of the problem. And as such, the problem of the proc still remains.
So as i see it, we have two main problems with the current phaser system. First we have a low proc effect of supposedly 5 sec duration and we have the immunity lockout (the 10 sec if the proc hits). The effect itself is barely noticeable and against some NPCs totally wasted. And even when the effect should occur AND you recognize it, you won't have the time to really exploit it. Of course it is a different story when you are attacked by a group of ships, all equipped with phaser.
The immunity effect is also a huge problem. At the current system, after every proc we have an stop of phaser procs for 10 sec. Frankly that's BS.
So maybe be best solution is just to increase the duration of the effect to say 7 sec and set the immunity effect timer also to 7 sec,but only for that system. (Especially against NPCs )
Actually I see it more as a general outcry to see phaser weapons brought up to the current standard.
It struck me as more of a pointer that their proc does not effect NPCs as well as the other energy types.
In PvP I have always found Phasers and their proc to be effective. At one point they where too effective, hence the immunity that their proc eventually recieved.
I do think they need some focus as the other energy types have seen many more examples of hybrids and such.
It struck me as more of a pointer that their proc does not effect NPCs as well as the other energy types.
I think you're thinking of the "Rework Phaser Proc" thread there, this one started out as a request for a set that buffs the damage, then evolved into a proc discussion on pages 4 and 5
In PvP I have always found Phasers and their proc to be effective. At one point they where too effective, hence the immunity that their proc eventually recieved.
I do think they need some focus as the other energy types have seen many more examples of hybrids and such.
I can't say I disagree with the immunity after-effect but I do disagree with the lack of SubD extending the duration as that would make the proc more practical for lots of purposes (like spike-scorts that load torps, they would benefit more from the proc if they could extend it to 10 seconds as they could load a high yield quantum salvo if shields come down and bring a target down) though the whole concept is underwhelming in pve, unless you hit engines or weapons it doesn't matter if it hits or not but that's not an issue with the proc, rather an NPC design problem (common theme there...)
I agree some hybrid weapons dealing phaser damage would be nice, some kind of "Plasma-Infused Phaser Beam Array Mk XI" or something of that sort would be cool (and theoretically possible in the IP, see Ferengi phaser pistols) but I would focus right now on a set to buff phaser damage as it's the odd one out in this respect and tagging a SubD proc time extension to it.
Say what? Yeah, I'm not awake yet. So anyway, you've got a Beam Array...what's the difference between a Phaser Beam Array and a Disruptor Beam Array?
Different Procs
Different Colors
The rest is the same. The same goes for Polaron, Tetryon, Antiproton, and Plasma. Different Procs (or +CrtH, in the case of AP) and Different Colors.
Is it about the "Proc/Mod" aspect of Phasers? Or is it about the Color of Phased Polarons, Phased Tetryons, and Spiral Wave Disruptors?
Is it an iconic/canon thing? Wanting to run Phasers - just because they are Phasers?
If it is about changing the Proc, then it is also a case of changing Phased Polarons, Phased Tetryons, Spirals, etc, etc, etc as they may appear down the road.
It's kind of annoying, imho, because I've never been a fan of the Phaser proc (I feel like I said this already, and in a senile moment I may have - but I think I decided to refresh the page instead of posting it - maybe I did - hrmm, don't remember - not awake yet - rambling...) - it's either the weakest or the strongest proc, in the blink of an eye...but it's completely random. It's the poster child of yo-yo mechanics and extremes.
Things, imho, that might have made sense as replacement procs for Phasers - well, they've been given to various flavors of Disruptors. Consider Elite Fleet Disruptors...see...that's how I would have imagined the Spiral Wave Disruptors. That [Shield Disruptor] proc on the EFDs would have been the [Phaser] proc on the SWDs.
Or maybe the Phaser proc would have been the proc from the Nanite Disruptors, where Phasers had a chance for increased bleed...you know - because of rotating frequency modulation. Maybe the Elachi proc...the shield part...again, because of rotating frequency modulation.
The Phaser proc...meh...just seems more like the result of a critical than a base mod, imho.
There are four standard mods: [Acc][Dmg][CrtD][CrtH]; where AP's already got the [CrtD]. [Acc] was suggested as a possible change. No wait, that was suggested as an addition. It would keep the Phaser proc but also get an additional mod, taking it to 5x mods. There was also the suggestion to buff the Phaser proc while adding [Acc]x2, creating a six mod nightmare weapon with a 0.0000390625% chance to take all four subsystems offline.
One could go around and around (threads exist where folks have gone around and around)...but in the end, I think it's just going to be a patience thing and waiting on sets to come out like they have for other weapons. Remember, it's not a case that the others existed from the start...they've trickled out over the years.
I'm going to go grab some caffeine and see if I need to delete this post...lol.
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Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Well the thing with the lockout is that it's target-side (I think) but it's to protect against full phaser teams, afterall one can imagine how bad that could get :P
I stand by my Enhanced Phaser Beam Array, as part of the set I included with it it mitigates two problems in one go. And that's just the weapon type, that doesn't include the ship problems that are mitigated by the set.
1) A 5 second proc cap that prevents chained multi-subsystem disables. Subsystem disable durations were nerfed a while ago, so the 5 second cap can probably be shortened to 3 seconds without any serious game play impact.
2) There is currently no phaser damage buffing equipment set. However, all other energy weapons have some kind of damage increasing gear outside of tac-consoles.
-Disruptors have the Elachi Space Weapon Set
-Anti-protons have the Obelisk Core + Omni Directional Beam Array
-Tetryons have the Nukara Munitions set
-Polarons have the Jem'Hadar space set
-Plasmas have the Romulan Singularity Harness Set
So, when will Cryptic provide the feds with a space set that buffs phasers??? The latter seems it's long overdue...
EDIT: How about giving phasers a small kinetic damage component? Phasers are particle weapons, so they should be able to deal more damage against exposed hulls. This bonus kinetic damage need not be much... perhaps 5% or similar. Such a small amount would not be game-breaking but still grant increased damage performance.
Another thing to bear in mind: Any changes to a weapon type are also carried over to npcs. Think about that. Think about all those missions where you face phaser fire. Now think about what would happen when you factor in any weapon changes.
There was a reason that phaser procs had a cooldown added. People were getting shut down constantly by npc fire in fleet events (also Mirror Invasion Event). Being rendered completely helpless against an npc fleet was NOT fun.
I vote they create an Aegis console that buffs phasers in some fashion.
R.I.P
Hell the tholians along with romulans constantly spam me with subsystem knockouts as it is, so it really doesn't bother me.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Full phaser teams may sound good, but odds are you would still have teammates with some form of disruptor or polaron proc to aid the team.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I think there's a basic misunderstanding of those buffs.
That +7.6% Disruptor/Plasma that you mention...those are to base damage.
DHCs for example...have a base damage of 174. So the +7.6% is an increase of +13.224 DPV. If you're at 125 Weapon Power, you're getting +33.06 DPV. Add in APA3, APO3, Rombush, EPtW1...+69.426 DPV. Give it a 200% CrtD, +208.278 DPV! Heck, mount 5x DHCs for +1041.39 DPV from firing all five!
Yeah, it's miniscule. Sure, it can add up over a period of time...but TT1 with full crew gives a +9% boost to base damage by comparison.
It's not a "final damage" modifier - it's not +7.6% damage before the target applies resists or anything of the sort.
So the damage output difference between a buffed and non-buffed...being too high...well, I suppose that's a matter of perspective.
Mind you, the 2pc Obelisk set that provides +10% AP damage...that's not base damage. That's post Weapon Power damage. It's one of two such gear boosts in the game, with the other being the 2pc T'varo set and its bonus to projectiles. 2pc Disruptor, 2pc Plasma, Sci Consoles, 2pc KHG, 2pc Temporal, etc, etc, etc...are base damage.
Yeah I need to get that T'varo 2 piece for...something evil I am planning. It is also worth saying that while these +7.6% base damage things can make a difference buffed as above a lot of them force you to run sets which may cost you in other areas so it's always a case of balancing +damage against +survivability. Also that obelisk set is incredible for AP weapons, kinda glad it's a warp core not a sing core...imagine the scimitar with that!!
OT: Phasers perhaps could do with that or just have their proc lockout rolled back a tad, in 1s increments till it's OK. You have to remember it was mighty annoying when they didn't have a lock out and you were being shot by 20+ beams...yeah it was like having someone spam VM at you.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Hmm. Perhaps make it possible to choose which subsystem to disable for 5 second? Similar to the target subsystem tac abilities. Or leave it as it is now and increase the duration.
Heh, even so - it's kind of pesky having to bind around the propensity for the OD Turret to steal the BO from your DBB if you're running one. On the other hand, that OD Turret is nifty for a Sci Vessel that might be running Torps but still wants that 360 Subsystem Targeting.
It may have come off that I was discounting the Energy Boosts, while not quite speaking up about the Kinetic Boosts...but yeah, with a T'varo...well...
4x [+Torp] Advanced giving +27.9% each instead of +20% you'd get from Warheads...for +111.6% Torp base damage; KHG 2pc +25% Torp base damage; 2pc Protonic for +22.9% Photon base damage (& +3% CrtH); 2pc Temporal for +27.4% Chron base damage (& +0.76% CrtH/+7.6% CrtD); 2pc T'varo for +10% non-base damage...you can definitely have a bit of fun. Wish the Voth Chrons were in the Rep Store...oh well.
Yeah, the old non-immunity thing was painful in that way. TBH, though, I despise the Phaser proc as something that should be left to activated abilities rather than a random proc. Always figured that Phasers should have increased bleed.."modern" phasers having the built in frequency adjustment sort of thing to increase the impact of their damage and all.
There's little doubt, imho, that somewhere down the road there will be a set for Phaser - but they need to spread things out. If everything was done at once, then what would there be to do? They've said they've got even bigger plans for 2014 than 2013...should be an interesting year.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=14273401&postcount=29
That wouldn't be a bad idea. It should be a lobi store item though to make it on par with the elachi set cost wise.
The elachi set though is kind of ungainly and is selectively useful. The torpedo is meh, and the high yield version would be faster if it took a bus.
Completely different. Subsystem targeting has a cooldown. Even NPCs that use subystem targeting have the cooldown.
The phaser proc had no such cooldown. So the result was you could be rendered helpless as long as you remained under fire.
It's obvious you have never had this happen to you. I have, and it sucks. Having your shields go down yet again after your EPtS and batteries are cooldown, while you are subjected to torpedo strikes from HY torpedos, or from torpedo spreads is lots and lots of fun....really.
Evasive Maneu..[Engines Offline].
No Aux? No problem... just forget about healing and think about what your lunch/dinner menu should be while you are respawning.
That is why they put the phaser proc cooldown. They could stack with no diminishing returns and no cooldowns.
It's all well and good to want to deal more damage and be awesome, but some thought should be put in on how much fun it would be to receive it enmasse.
Here is a much older thread that describes some of the issue from the PvP forums. Do not disregard it because it's in the PvP section. Everything about the proc applies to PvE as well.
Im 50/50 with this.
But the lockout wasnt the way to go, making it so it couldnt have more than 2 stacks of a system offline at a time. So you could say, knockout engines and Shields, and nothing else for 10s.
The Duration is too short, and the lockout too long. No other weapon is hobbled so, they have an amount of stack that is capped.
Now most people arent asking for a new proc or changes to it (while it might be nice) a set to buff the phasers with a 2 piece and some 3 piece technobabble would be acceptable.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
10 seconds is forever when it's the player who is affected.
As I previously stated, I have no issues with a set bonus increasing phaser damage, since this would not affect NPC weapon fire.
The phaser proc is being discussed here (in this thread) as being subpar, with people, including you, wanting to modify the proc in some way (either in duration, removing the lockout, number of subsystems disabled per proc, etc.). So yes, they are asking for a change to it.
I want people to realize that this may have undesirable consequences for their PvE experience. Why change something, then have to go back later and change it again because change A had an undesireable affect? Why do that when another solution (like a console or a set bonus) would be more effective in terms of giving players the boost they desire, while not turning npc's into juggernauts.
Bear in mind that I am not just talking about end game content, but the leveling missions as well, where you generally don't have access to top gear, or full skill allocations.
My character Tsin'xing
I see your point but equally I see the other side of it and while I don't take issue with the phaser proc immunity caused upon recovery I do take issue with the fact that it isn't extended by subspace decompiler, my viral matrix can take down systems for 13.8 seconds, it can come back and it can spread (and repeat) that is far more dangerous than the phaser proc and it doesn't come with an immunity afterwards.
If the above link was made and the set I featured in this post was implemented, phaser proc would be something to take serious attention of, it would also make it a more appealing option to federation cruisers as it comes with a speed and turn buff, it would also give a reason to run a torp on some more mobile cruisers. it also benefits the phaser proc by extending it a second or two, what's more is that buffs phaser damage... That said I can't really think of a downside to it if you run phasers or sci.
Meh, so many words and numbers and stuff! :P
Additional Accuracy is a tough one because of how variable the results of it could be. Somebody might just miss less while the guy in the Scimitar that parked the target will just wreck it that much more because of Accuracy Overflow on top of all the other CrtD/CrtH they bleed.
Trying to look at Consoles to see if they're balanced is a tough one - I try to avoid it, lol. Cause not only is it a case of trying to check it against other single consoles, you've got to take into account set bonuses, etc, etc, etc - becomes pretty damn cumbersome (besides, Cryptic folks get paid to do it - I don't...lalalala).
As for the Final Modifier thing - that's also a tough one, imho. Cause with the T'varo 2pc, it somewhat made sense since it was restricted to the T'varo. The Obelisk stuff brings that to any non-Warbird (AM Core). Which begs the question of should the other set bonuses be changed (balanced in the process) to be similar non-Base modifiers like the Obelisk set. That being said though, one would have to balance for the ease of access to the sets...and all the rest.
I do figure that we'll see some Phaser stuff this year...figure we'll see all sorts of stuff this year, given all the stuff we saw last year compared to the year before.
And i have replaced them with Exchange bought tetryons and increased my DPs by about 35% doing the STfs and other PvE content they just are not putting out the damage other weapons do
For PvE I say phasers are the worst energy weapon in the game and have removed them from all of my ships replaced with other types that do much more damage
perhaps cryptic is nerfing things or breaking things in the background and not telling us but i have noticed a large drop in phaser DPS about 1 month ago in PvE
Advanced weapons from the starbase outclass Elite phasers in every way in PvE as well Wosrt waste of fleet credits i have ever spent
phasers may be good for PvP but are the last place weapon for PvE
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Ok I do think that phasers should be boosted by subspace decomplier (I don't know why they are not). I was under the impression, somewhere in the back of my head, that they were. But I checked the description of the skills that affect phasers and decompiler isn't listed. So yes, I agree that should be changed, as it has no bearing on NPC fire.
As for sets and set bonuses I agree that there should be something. But at the same time, I don't think the Elachi set is all that wonderful (I have the set on a Monbosh). Yes, the disruptor bonus is nice, but there are other things that would work better(not convinced the set was worth 600 lobis). I think a Phaser set should be set along those lines too, where you are forced to ask yourself...is it really worth it?
I confess I am a cruiser pilot on my main and at the moment I have a focus on getting speed out of the thing so I decided to add to the short list of things that add to ship speed, the obvious thing to go with that is turn rate, I also incorporated a little Galaxy into it with the 3 piece bonus, I fear it may be too phaser/cruiser focussed but it is a fed based thing... maybe a Cardi rep? They use phasers afterall... :P
Honestly, I can't see a use for the set itself on an escort (though I can't say I aimed it at them) but it's worth it for a disable based build or a fed cruiser with a canon theme or any other theme for that matter :P
But... I thought you liked numbers :P
Mmm... The way I saw it was that in pvp you can find so many ways to boost defence and if you need more you can fly around it but in pve... well A2B threw any semblance of balance out of that virtual window long ago. The main reason I went with extra accuracy was to go with the federation advanced sensors theme.
I get that, it was tough trying to decide on the numbers, I referenced a few consoles and the cost of getting the compared to their effects (I used the Tachyo and Lobi Elachi consoles as my reference points), I used almost 50% of the values to keep it out of the Loi shop. (dear me I hate that currency) the main thing from my point of view was to give it a unique flavour while keeping out of the Lobi store and balanced, quite hard to do lol
Given the way things are and how the Jemmy set (as a primary example) is put down as only being good if you run Polarons, which is fair, and should be dropped as soon as you get access to another set, I think that set buffs to energy types should be normalised using the Obelisk set buff to APs as the template, it would make calculations and balancing them easier thereby removing more FOTM-ness from the game. Though I would keep any "All dmg" buffs at a base level as they are generic I could see them getting out of hand.
I'm not sure how I'd go about availability balancing, hmm... perhaps the first ever fleet set? No... the stats are very rep like... maybe it should be in the next rep track, I think that would work.
Seconded.
The whole set discussion is my opinion nothing more than just an attempt to cure the symptoms, not the root of the problem. And as such, the problem of the proc still remains.
So as i see it, we have two main problems with the current phaser system. First we have a low proc effect of supposedly 5 sec duration and we have the immunity lockout (the 10 sec if the proc hits). The effect itself is barely noticeable and against some NPCs totally wasted. And even when the effect should occur AND you recognize it, you won't have the time to really exploit it. Of course it is a different story when you are attacked by a group of ships, all equipped with phaser.
The immunity effect is also a huge problem. At the current system, after every proc we have an stop of phaser procs for 10 sec. Frankly that's BS.
So maybe be best solution is just to increase the duration of the effect to say 7 sec and set the immunity effect timer also to 7 sec,but only for that system. (Especially against NPCs )
R.I.P
Actually I see it more as a general outcry to see phaser weapons brought up to the current standard.
It struck me as more of a pointer that their proc does not effect NPCs as well as the other energy types.
In PvP I have always found Phasers and their proc to be effective. At one point they where too effective, hence the immunity that their proc eventually recieved.
I do think they need some focus as the other energy types have seen many more examples of hybrids and such.
R.I.P
I think you're thinking of the "Rework Phaser Proc" thread there, this one started out as a request for a set that buffs the damage, then evolved into a proc discussion on pages 4 and 5
I can't say I disagree with the immunity after-effect but I do disagree with the lack of SubD extending the duration as that would make the proc more practical for lots of purposes (like spike-scorts that load torps, they would benefit more from the proc if they could extend it to 10 seconds as they could load a high yield quantum salvo if shields come down and bring a target down) though the whole concept is underwhelming in pve, unless you hit engines or weapons it doesn't matter if it hits or not but that's not an issue with the proc, rather an NPC design problem (common theme there...)
I agree some hybrid weapons dealing phaser damage would be nice, some kind of "Plasma-Infused Phaser Beam Array Mk XI" or something of that sort would be cool (and theoretically possible in the IP, see Ferengi phaser pistols) but I would focus right now on a set to buff phaser damage as it's the odd one out in this respect and tagging a SubD proc time extension to it.
Say what? Yeah, I'm not awake yet. So anyway, you've got a Beam Array...what's the difference between a Phaser Beam Array and a Disruptor Beam Array?
Different Procs
Different Colors
The rest is the same. The same goes for Polaron, Tetryon, Antiproton, and Plasma. Different Procs (or +CrtH, in the case of AP) and Different Colors.
Is it about the "Proc/Mod" aspect of Phasers? Or is it about the Color of Phased Polarons, Phased Tetryons, and Spiral Wave Disruptors?
Is it an iconic/canon thing? Wanting to run Phasers - just because they are Phasers?
If it is about changing the Proc, then it is also a case of changing Phased Polarons, Phased Tetryons, Spirals, etc, etc, etc as they may appear down the road.
It's kind of annoying, imho, because I've never been a fan of the Phaser proc (I feel like I said this already, and in a senile moment I may have - but I think I decided to refresh the page instead of posting it - maybe I did - hrmm, don't remember - not awake yet - rambling...) - it's either the weakest or the strongest proc, in the blink of an eye...but it's completely random. It's the poster child of yo-yo mechanics and extremes.
Things, imho, that might have made sense as replacement procs for Phasers - well, they've been given to various flavors of Disruptors. Consider Elite Fleet Disruptors...see...that's how I would have imagined the Spiral Wave Disruptors. That [Shield Disruptor] proc on the EFDs would have been the [Phaser] proc on the SWDs.
Or maybe the Phaser proc would have been the proc from the Nanite Disruptors, where Phasers had a chance for increased bleed...you know - because of rotating frequency modulation. Maybe the Elachi proc...the shield part...again, because of rotating frequency modulation.
The Phaser proc...meh...just seems more like the result of a critical than a base mod, imho.
There are four standard mods: [Acc][Dmg][CrtD][CrtH]; where AP's already got the [CrtD]. [Acc] was suggested as a possible change. No wait, that was suggested as an addition. It would keep the Phaser proc but also get an additional mod, taking it to 5x mods. There was also the suggestion to buff the Phaser proc while adding [Acc]x2, creating a six mod nightmare weapon with a 0.0000390625% chance to take all four subsystems offline.
One could go around and around (threads exist where folks have gone around and around)...but in the end, I think it's just going to be a patience thing and waiting on sets to come out like they have for other weapons. Remember, it's not a case that the others existed from the start...they've trickled out over the years.
I'm going to go grab some caffeine and see if I need to delete this post...lol.