The reason to PvP is because PvP is what is best in life: To blast your enemies, see them explode before you, and hear their lamentations over the intercom.
You spend all that time, grinding dilithium, to buy numerically superior gear, that is way over-qualified for PvE, in an attempt to have the "Best Build", only to have someone else find a "Better Build" that handily, defeats it, flushing your time, and effort, down the crapper. It's nothing that approximates canon Star Trek starship combat, and belongs more in a Top Gun atmospheric fighter action game. If you're good at it, the fights take way too long, which detracts from the lethality of the weapons involved, and if you're not good at it, it's just not fun watching your pride, and joy, be repeatedly destroyed over, and over, again. Other than bragging rights (which do nothing for me) there are no worthwhile rewards. PvP adds nothing to this game for me, And as such I feel it's simply resources being spent, that could be utilized better elsewhere.
you shouldnt, nor anyone like you. not for the weakwilled or quick to complain. have fun pve.
The reason to PvP is because PvP is what is best in life: To blast your enemies, see them explode before you, and hear their lamentations over the intercom.
Further more with the state of pvp comunity only the true vets have the builds we want. Becuase ther time in game we will never cach up. I dont enjoy see vet sto beat my build up over and over. when all he has done has found a exploit or some other broken skill, or the person only has one major attack all he use. They will run 30 kn away then u think match is over they come back to alpha pvp is flawed and for new people it worse it takes average 7 months to grind a decent pvp toon up. Thats if your fleet is well provisioned so its not worth being some vets punching bag it doesn't help u ne and the pvp rewards for fed makes totally not worth it and the klink faction is filled with vets that act like snobbs.
There is no point to pvp reason's
1. to many broken or over used exploits
2. trash talking is gone way over board
3. becuase of the gap in gear and cool downs of reps and limited resources it makes it harder to build a pvp toon.
4. The bottum line the vets of the game dont give ne respect to ne one even when they lose they will just gang up on u in chat and say u are rageing.........or some other trash talking tech. then when u respond they report. Sad really why pvp its a good question
I'm replying to you but I'll also add some other thoughts.
First and foremost, most people that pvp do not use exploits, maybe some broken abilities every now and then, but that does not define the whole community, you know the saying, every village has it's own idiot, so yea, there are idiots in the pvp community, there are idiots in pve, there are idiots everywhere. The reason not to pvp because some bad mouthing in Kerrat is silly. Let me tell you this, who insults, is most times a mediocre pvper at best, can't really hold his own very well. Every now and then I get an insult either for killing somebody in a pass while decloacking, either for getting killed, and so what? I keep that in mind and the person that insults dies next.
Most pvpers are very helpful, Regulus just offered help, Naz also included something similar with what I said, I guarantee that every real pvper will offer a hand in improving everybody willing to evolve from this point of view. Also, I keep telling this around, to most folks that pve from my fleet and that are not interested to pvp: A pvp build and few skills will guarantee success in pve. Even if the gear may not be optimized very well for pve, will smoke everything. Honestly, I find it funny when pve friends ask me how can I do stfs without any eps or shield heal (granted, using romulan singularity heals), and really, every average pvper can do this with no problem. Forget about jerks and smarty pants, just find out some good pvpers that would be happy to share some advice without making anybody feel uncomfortable, everybody started from nothing, right?
Pvp is always a challenge, players will do anything to kill you, npcs are stupid and not challenging. This is the main reason people pvp. Plus we all like star trek.
Gear-wise... right, you do need good gear, and rep tiers, but you can still play without. Yea, you won't have the same crits, same passives, same endurance, but at the end you do this for fun, not to always win! If everybody will always win, why would be pvp any different than pve?
Most pvp vets in the game are nice guys, trust me! You just need to separate the moron from the real pvper.
I kind of find it funny seeing a thread like this every now and then. Not trying to make fun or be a smarta$$, but this types of threads clearly should be a slap in the face for Cryptic for not doing anything for a better pvp in this game. We could use some more love, some warzones like the spire ones, some simulators - to help in our builds - that can calculate some better stats (shield resistance, dps/min, some dynamic maps to test dps/tanking against some npcs that can be customized for more or less difficulty, etc).
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
You spend all that time, grinding dilithium, to buy numerically superior gear, that is way over-qualified for PvE, in an attempt to have the "Best Build", only to have someone else find a "Better Build" that handily, defeats it, flushing your time, and effort, down the crapper. It's nothing that approximates canon Star Trek starship combat, and belongs more in a Top Gun atmospheric fighter action game. If you're good at it, the fights take way too long, which detracts from the lethality of the weapons involved, and if you're not good at it, it's just not fun watching your pride, and joy, be repeatedly destroyed over, and over, again. Other than bragging rights (which do nothing for me) there are no worthwhile rewards. PvP adds nothing to this game for me, And as such I feel it's simply resources being spent, that could be utilized better elsewhere.
The answer is easy.. PVP is the only real challenge left in this game.....
"Better were the days when mastery o' space came not from bargains struck with eldritch creatures... but from the sweat of a man's brow and the strength of his back alone. Ye all know thi's to be true!"
Further more with the state of pvp comunity only the true vets have the builds we want. Becuase ther time in game we will never cach up. I dont enjoy see vet sto beat my build up over and over. when all he has done has found a exploit or some other broken skill, or the person only has one major attack all he use. They will run 30 kn away then u think match is over they come back to alpha pvp is flawed and for new people it worse it takes average 7 months to grind a decent pvp toon up. Thats if your fleet is well provisioned so its not worth being some vets punching bag it doesn't help u ne and the pvp rewards for fed makes totally not worth it and the klink faction is filled with vets that act like snobbs.
There is no point to pvp reason's
1. to many broken or over used exploits
2. trash talking is gone way over board
3. becuase of the gap in gear and cool downs of reps and limited resources it makes it harder to build a pvp toon.
4. The bottum line the vets of the game dont give ne respect to ne one even when they lose they will just gang up on u in chat and say u are rageing.........or some other trash talking tech. then when u respond they report. Sad really why pvp its a good question
To be given a 'VET' build is the best? What is a VET build? a build that kills you?
To understand one's own build and finding it's weakness and strengths and improving on this with every victory and loss is far superior than just being spoon fed and given another's build.
You will not know how it works, what mechanics it is based on, what timing and most importantly why it works.
That's the beauty of PVP you find the right build for you not using a cookie cutter build which might last you for a certain period before being outdated or it's weakness highlighted.
When you reach the level of being able to look at a ship and it's Boff slots and to be able to find an optimal build for yourself is when you know you truly can hold yourself against others.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Those who have reasons to not pvp based on experiences, lack of skill or lacking build quality need to join PvP Bootcamp and at least learn the skills needed to find a better experience.
Being FtP, the only way to catch up to build quality is to spend the time or money to do so.
The tools exist to increase any new pvpers skills and the Vets exist in numbers to offer their wisdom on how to play. There is no real excuse on why not to pvp other than a lack of desire to do so on the individuals part for personal reasons.
Those who have reasons to not pvp based on experiences, lack of skill or lacking build quality need to join PvP Bootcamp and at least learn the skills needed to find a better experience.
Being FtP, the only way to catch up to build quality is to spend the time or money to do so.
The tools exist to increase any new pvpers skills and the Vets exist in numbers to offer their wisdom on how to play. There is no real excuse on why not to pvp other than a lack of desire to do so on the individuals part for personal reasons.
However I find a common reason being subject to chat/rage abuse with the inability to take things into context. It's a game with pixels, people take abuse so literally and personally.
Subsequently rage quitting or worse reacting to it will only make you a prime target.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Having PvP in a game where the difference between players in not only skill but gear can be as big as the Grand Canyon is not a good thing.
There will always be a case of skill difference and there's nothing to be done about that without having a ranking system that matches people up. However to pretend that gear makes no difference is idiocy. With the advent of fleet consoles and in some cases ships the gear difference on consoles is narrowing which is good.
Unfortunately you still have premium ships being generally the best at many things and offering much more on the fly switching. You also have a lot of extra premium things such as doffs, boff slots, lobi sets and now ship sets which offer powerful advantages. These do make a difference, a wells or mobius with TIF is even more deadly than any other ship with TIF which is already powerful.
Then you get to other things like people telling you you should play like X or you're deadweight, going up against much more expensively geared players, very strange balancing issues in general as well as numerous exploits and a few bad eggs.
Honestly PvP in this game is a mess and as balanced as a fat kid on the seesaw. It's good in those small tiny nuggets where people aren't using broken or premium stuff but if you get further into PvP you really do see the faults more as massive divides.
Best PvP in this game is the fast and flurrious race, as balanced as possible to be honest.
So advise to the OP, dabble by going into Kerrat, cloakers it's more fun and see what you like, get some experience and if you like it go to the queues. If you don't like the queues hop in OPvP channel and do that or just continue to swat Willard the Gnat in Kerrat =P
The only way that you will ever get good at pvp is to make friends, and play with them on voip, because the game is too focused on teamwork, timing, and synergies for anyone to be effective all on their own in most cases.
You could get good with no friends, but the woefully tiny pvp population willl notice you and you will become a priority target until you dont get a chance to ever play because you are the first one to be wiped off the board. - You wont enjoy pvp without friends.
Another good way to ensure you never get to enjoy pvp is to join pvp comunities and offer opinions that dont satisfy others, particularly others from social and hyper-competitive fleets. Pretty soon everyone will hate you and it wont matter who you will play with because everyone will want to be the one who got to kill you.
Pvp is always a challenge, players will do anything to kill you, npcs are stupid and not challenging. This is the main reason people pvp. Plus we all like star trek.
This comment intrigues me, since my major gripe with PVP is that it forces you down builds which have very little to do with onscreen Trek. Such as ships with crews full of Romulans or Nausicaans, or Lockbox ships, or Elachi / Voth weapons. Not an issue in 2011, now it is utterly endemic.
More to the point, the idea of limiting your build because you like Trek seems to be actively spat upon by the PVP community. This is not unique to STO (Star Fleet Battles publications memorably slagged off players for trying to mimic onscreen Trek) but is nonetheless.... counter-intuitive.
Those who have reasons to not pvp based on experiences, lack of skill or lacking build quality need to join PvP Bootcamp and at least learn the skills needed to find a better experience.
Being FtP, the only way to catch up to build quality is to spend the time or money to do so.
Great if you can control your playing time to that extent. But surely that's part of the problem - that gateway sits at too high a level?
You shouldn't. Its way more fun and challenging to r4pe intelligent NPC's/Mobs. See the explosions, etc. Its gratifying enough to see that.
There is no challenge in PvP, and Human nature does not strive for challenges. We don't evolve, thats why we still slam each other with wooden sticks.
See, this sort of superiority complex is what puts people off PVP. Because if you really wanted a challenge, you wouldn't be @ssing around on an MMO game which is at best mental wallpaper. You'd be studying for that evening degree, or practising a real martial art... things which the world at large would recognise as "challenging" rather than your ability to blow up other people's imaginary spaceships.
See, this sort of superiority complex is what puts people off PVP.
Maybe the way in which it was expressed would put some people off, but if they are put off because some players find PvP more challenging than PvE or that some players desire a more challenging form of gameplay, then that's an issue with which they need to come to terms, as it is the reality and a valid desire.
Because if you really wanted a challenge, you wouldn't be @ssing around on an MMO game which is at best mental wallpaper. You'd be studying for that evening degree, or practising a real martial art... things which the world at large would recognise as "challenging" rather than your ability to blow up other people's imaginary spaceships.
How do you know they are not?
That's not really relevant though, as its not a reasonable proposition, to expect that the choice of challenge is invalidated by the failure to choose other more challenging activities or that the activity must be viewed as challenging by the world at large.
Maybe the way in which it was expressed would put some people off, but if they are put off because some players find PvP more challenging than PvE or that some players desire a more challenging form of gameplay, then that's an issue with which they need to come to terms, as it is the reality and a valid desire.
4
That's not really relevant though, as its not a reasonable proposition, to expect that the choice of challenge is invalidated by the failure to choose other more challenging activities or that the activity must be viewed as challenging by the world at large.
Eh, I'm just pointing out that maligning people's drive, determination and initiative on the basis of the fact that they don't PVP in STO is a really stupid thing to do, if you think about trying to explain it to someone who was not into MMOs.
So, is there anything anyone can say that would change the way you feel about PvP, or convince you to play it more? Or is this just a giant troll? I'm leaning towards giant troll.
Eh, I'm just pointing out that maligning people's drive, determination and initiative on the basis of the fact that they don't PVP in STO is a really stupid thing to do, if you think about trying to explain it to someone who was not into MMOs.
Granted, in that the malignant sentiment towards players who choose not to PvP has no basis for support. That is also true for those players who choose to PvP. They should not be maligned for their choice.
However, let's not toss away the kernel of validity that was buried in the bundle of snark you quoted earlier. Is a chess player's desire to test themselves against a challenging opponent invalidated, because they chose not to take up the challenge to climb Mount Everest? No. Having a preference for one activity over another and seeking to challenge oneself are not mutually exclusive concepts.
Comments
2 months tops for me, with no rep tokens, otherwise 1 month including creating a new toon.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Umm... It *IS* an MMO. It is a system for throwing time away for fun... There is no point to any of it...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
OMG someone vaped my pixel ship, I'm going to rage quitz and rage talk on zone talk
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
take the good with the bad, if you like the game and would like a challenge, queue up...
if you just want to coast thru missions, then don't.
have fun kill bad guys
you shouldnt, nor anyone like you. not for the weakwilled or quick to complain. have fun pve.
priceless!
R.I.P
Normal, Advanced, Elite, and then PvP.
The point of playing any difficulty level is to have fun!
I'm replying to you but I'll also add some other thoughts.
First and foremost, most people that pvp do not use exploits, maybe some broken abilities every now and then, but that does not define the whole community, you know the saying, every village has it's own idiot, so yea, there are idiots in the pvp community, there are idiots in pve, there are idiots everywhere. The reason not to pvp because some bad mouthing in Kerrat is silly. Let me tell you this, who insults, is most times a mediocre pvper at best, can't really hold his own very well. Every now and then I get an insult either for killing somebody in a pass while decloacking, either for getting killed, and so what? I keep that in mind and the person that insults dies next.
Most pvpers are very helpful, Regulus just offered help, Naz also included something similar with what I said, I guarantee that every real pvper will offer a hand in improving everybody willing to evolve from this point of view. Also, I keep telling this around, to most folks that pve from my fleet and that are not interested to pvp: A pvp build and few skills will guarantee success in pve. Even if the gear may not be optimized very well for pve, will smoke everything. Honestly, I find it funny when pve friends ask me how can I do stfs without any eps or shield heal (granted, using romulan singularity heals), and really, every average pvper can do this with no problem. Forget about jerks and smarty pants, just find out some good pvpers that would be happy to share some advice without making anybody feel uncomfortable, everybody started from nothing, right?
Pvp is always a challenge, players will do anything to kill you, npcs are stupid and not challenging. This is the main reason people pvp. Plus we all like star trek.
Gear-wise... right, you do need good gear, and rep tiers, but you can still play without. Yea, you won't have the same crits, same passives, same endurance, but at the end you do this for fun, not to always win! If everybody will always win, why would be pvp any different than pve?
Most pvp vets in the game are nice guys, trust me! You just need to separate the moron from the real pvper.
I kind of find it funny seeing a thread like this every now and then. Not trying to make fun or be a smarta$$, but this types of threads clearly should be a slap in the face for Cryptic for not doing anything for a better pvp in this game. We could use some more love, some warzones like the spire ones, some simulators - to help in our builds - that can calculate some better stats (shield resistance, dps/min, some dynamic maps to test dps/tanking against some npcs that can be customized for more or less difficulty, etc).
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
The answer is easy.. PVP is the only real challenge left in this game.....
To be given a 'VET' build is the best? What is a VET build? a build that kills you?
To understand one's own build and finding it's weakness and strengths and improving on this with every victory and loss is far superior than just being spoon fed and given another's build.
You will not know how it works, what mechanics it is based on, what timing and most importantly why it works.
That's the beauty of PVP you find the right build for you not using a cookie cutter build which might last you for a certain period before being outdated or it's weakness highlighted.
When you reach the level of being able to look at a ship and it's Boff slots and to be able to find an optimal build for yourself is when you know you truly can hold yourself against others.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Being FtP, the only way to catch up to build quality is to spend the time or money to do so.
The tools exist to increase any new pvpers skills and the Vets exist in numbers to offer their wisdom on how to play. There is no real excuse on why not to pvp other than a lack of desire to do so on the individuals part for personal reasons.
R.I.P
However I find a common reason being subject to chat/rage abuse with the inability to take things into context. It's a game with pixels, people take abuse so literally and personally.
Subsequently rage quitting or worse reacting to it will only make you a prime target.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
There will always be a case of skill difference and there's nothing to be done about that without having a ranking system that matches people up. However to pretend that gear makes no difference is idiocy. With the advent of fleet consoles and in some cases ships the gear difference on consoles is narrowing which is good.
Unfortunately you still have premium ships being generally the best at many things and offering much more on the fly switching. You also have a lot of extra premium things such as doffs, boff slots, lobi sets and now ship sets which offer powerful advantages. These do make a difference, a wells or mobius with TIF is even more deadly than any other ship with TIF which is already powerful.
Then you get to other things like people telling you you should play like X or you're deadweight, going up against much more expensively geared players, very strange balancing issues in general as well as numerous exploits and a few bad eggs.
Honestly PvP in this game is a mess and as balanced as a fat kid on the seesaw. It's good in those small tiny nuggets where people aren't using broken or premium stuff but if you get further into PvP you really do see the faults more as massive divides.
Best PvP in this game is the fast and flurrious race, as balanced as possible to be honest.
So advise to the OP, dabble by going into Kerrat, cloakers it's more fun and see what you like, get some experience and if you like it go to the queues. If you don't like the queues hop in OPvP channel and do that or just continue to swat Willard the Gnat in Kerrat =P
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
You shouldn't. Its way more fun and challenging to r4pe intelligent NPC's/Mobs. See the explosions, etc. Its gratifying enough to see that.
There is no challenge in PvP, and Human nature does not strive for challenges. We don't evolve, thats why we still slam each other with wooden sticks.
You could get good with no friends, but the woefully tiny pvp population willl notice you and you will become a priority target until you dont get a chance to ever play because you are the first one to be wiped off the board. - You wont enjoy pvp without friends.
Another good way to ensure you never get to enjoy pvp is to join pvp comunities and offer opinions that dont satisfy others, particularly others from social and hyper-competitive fleets. Pretty soon everyone will hate you and it wont matter who you will play with because everyone will want to be the one who got to kill you.
This comment intrigues me, since my major gripe with PVP is that it forces you down builds which have very little to do with onscreen Trek. Such as ships with crews full of Romulans or Nausicaans, or Lockbox ships, or Elachi / Voth weapons. Not an issue in 2011, now it is utterly endemic.
More to the point, the idea of limiting your build because you like Trek seems to be actively spat upon by the PVP community. This is not unique to STO (Star Fleet Battles publications memorably slagged off players for trying to mimic onscreen Trek) but is nonetheless.... counter-intuitive.
Great if you can control your playing time to that extent. But surely that's part of the problem - that gateway sits at too high a level?
See, this sort of superiority complex is what puts people off PVP. Because if you really wanted a challenge, you wouldn't be @ssing around on an MMO game which is at best mental wallpaper. You'd be studying for that evening degree, or practising a real martial art... things which the world at large would recognise as "challenging" rather than your ability to blow up other people's imaginary spaceships.
Maybe the way in which it was expressed would put some people off, but if they are put off because some players find PvP more challenging than PvE or that some players desire a more challenging form of gameplay, then that's an issue with which they need to come to terms, as it is the reality and a valid desire.
How do you know they are not?
That's not really relevant though, as its not a reasonable proposition, to expect that the choice of challenge is invalidated by the failure to choose other more challenging activities or that the activity must be viewed as challenging by the world at large.
Eh, I'm just pointing out that maligning people's drive, determination and initiative on the basis of the fact that they don't PVP in STO is a really stupid thing to do, if you think about trying to explain it to someone who was not into MMOs.
So, is there anything anyone can say that would change the way you feel about PvP, or convince you to play it more? Or is this just a giant troll? I'm leaning towards giant troll.
Granted, in that the malignant sentiment towards players who choose not to PvP has no basis for support. That is also true for those players who choose to PvP. They should not be maligned for their choice.
However, let's not toss away the kernel of validity that was buried in the bundle of snark you quoted earlier. Is a chess player's desire to test themselves against a challenging opponent invalidated, because they chose not to take up the challenge to climb Mount Everest? No. Having a preference for one activity over another and seeking to challenge oneself are not mutually exclusive concepts.
It's your hatred of freedom that needs to be addressed.