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900 marks for dyson space set parts ?????
warpet
Member Posts: 506 Arc User
;O so we now need 900 marks for space set parts this is 2 times more then omega marks and we can collect 3-4 times more omega marks per instance and omega marks instances last 7-15 mins while dyson 20mins +....this change have no logic at all
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Forcing players to grind for new shiny things means they play more of the same tedious and monotonous content, spending more time in the game as a result, leaving them with less time to earn something like dilithium, which in turn makes them consider speding (more) Zen.
Because we can't have nice things. We can't have convenience. We can't play the content we want - we've got to play the content Devs want us to play in order to get new stuff.
Because forcing players to stay and play (by giving them artificial goals) is more benefitial than just letting them play and loot at their leisure...
And yet when Geko comes as a guest in a podcast he pretends he's surprised some missions are less popular than others... Oh gee, that's intriguing... I wonder why nobody's playing Breaking the Planet or Starbase Defense, but grinds Infected Space and runs around taging rabbits instead...
Something was telling me that all the reputation changes were too good to be true. I guess devs too agree that they were too convenient. And we can't have convenience.
I wanted to clear up the confusion here. Here are the facts:
1) Mk XII Omega Space Set equipment projects cost 1000 Marks for the Faction specific and Adapted sets, 900 for the Assimilated Set. Dyson Space sets cost 900. They are the same cost, in some cases less expensive.
2) the Storming the Spire mission is 16 minutes in length and awards a pretty healthy amount of Marks, even more so in the Elite version.
3) An experienced group can do the breach in around 20 minutes. The Breach awards a large amount of marks.
4) Don't forget the Dyson Sphere Adventure Zone and Battle Zone. You can very quickly earn marks by doing quick dailies.
In short, an efficient mark run can net you as many or very close to the Omega rep if you don't mind experiencing most or all of the content.
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
So you guys want to go back on your previous announcements that the Dyson Rep was to be easier, better access to end game gear and above all, be less of a grind.
Instead you went back to default grind mode?
Sadly the gear in the Dyson Rep is sub par to Omega gear, so we are back to square one.
Only do Omega Rep and forget the others other than the powers....
Does The Breach provide 300 Voth marks?
Does Storming the Spire provide ~180 Voth marks?
Do the adventure zones provide 15 voth marks per minute?
We both know the answer to all of the above is a decided no. So long as that is the case, using the argument "well, they cost just as much as the Omega rep ones do now" is extremely misplaced in my opinion. Not to mention the apparent, and frankly not at all unexpected, backtracking on making the Dyson rep "less grindy".
It's really sad and disappointing that I've come to expect a last minute switch from you guys to increase the grind factor on anything you put out as a major release. You tried to do sneak it in with Omega and Romulan reps. You didn't even bother to hide the grind with the fleet system. Ditto with the mine, embassy and Nukara rep. And now you're trying to do the exact same with the Voth rep.
Yet that's exactly what Gorn has done. You don't get to make comparisons of one rep system to another when using unequal expectations of player capacity.
That pretty much sums up the issue in people's eyes.
Except that the Dyson space set has 4 parts, not three like the Omega sets. Total for omega sets would be 3,000 (or 2700 for the assimilated). Total for the Dyson set is 3600. Please do not compare individual costs while not also including total costs.
How many? I can get 75 to 90 Omega marks in any STF in 15 to 20 minutes. I can get 40 marks regular or 60 elite for CE in Romulan, or 60-75 in about the same amount of time running Tau Dewa patrol. Nakura I can get about 100 in 30 minutes, maybe 45. And honestly, its fun. Last I bothered to run the spire or the breach, I think normal was 40. I find it telling that you don't seem willing or able to tell us exact numbers, even if those numbers are the current ones on tribble.
You might have a point about the space side, most of those little missions seem to give out 10 marks, and are quick. But the travel time does add up.
But while your last statement is correct in what it says, its very misleading. I can earn the same number of marks running Defera content as I could running an STF, if I don't mind experiencing most or all of the content. And spending four or so times the amount of time.
The rewards are low but that was okay since the costs were as well, as we the players were informed of several times. Now you have raised the costs and not increased the payouts. Which makes no sense. Unless that bug where a mission seems to auto complete every few minutes and gives you 10 marks for nothing is really a feature.
But yeah, try again, thanks for the spin.
Nouveau riche LTS member
we also need to be careful about saying 'an experienced group can earn 300 marks in 20 minutes' as a comparison.
they are doing that because they are experienced. we dont know what the most efficient way to earn marks for the dyson sets are because no one is experienced in it yet. the sets may need fine tuning later, but lets see how efficient people become at farming them.
one thing i will say, is that once you get to tier 5, i believe i am correct in saying the commendations become useless. it might be worth having a conversion process from commendation to marks, like we currently have marks to 5 commendations.
this would make doing a daily still relevant and give people a nice lump for doing 5 dailies over 5 days etc.
For the second time: either you make the optimized group argument for all Rep systems, or you make it for none. Gorn explicitly opened the door to that line of inquiry here:
and here:
Which means comparisons must be made to the pace currently attainable for other systems. A pace which S8 content doesn't come near matching.
Is that what Gorn has done, or what every poster after him has done? I suspect that if you pug either rep you probably won't find the time dedication much different.
And how little content does one have to do before something stops being a grind? Maybe that is the real conversation that needs to be had.
At what point between them just mailing the new stuff to you when a season launches and where the system is now does it stop being a "grind"?
and i found myself obtaining hundreds of marks very easily in the dyson zones and the battleground with little effort. the events seem a slower gain, but so are the romulan and tholian events. the most efficient way is to hunt eppochs on new romulas and to farm nakura prime. every rep has its own most efficient way that people find. the omega one just happens to be the events.
i dont know how efficiently i did it and i dont know how efficient it can be done and i think its important to wait and see exactly what the fastest accumulation is.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Why don't you say how much marks ?? Health amount, large amount .. what i read here is grind, grind , grind more than we did before.
Just tell us, the Storming the Spire mission is 16 minutes in length and awards x marks.
So we can look how much grinding a set will cost us.
Vage answers like healthy amount is same as no answer at all.
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
The commendations are used for daily projects for dil, unlocked at Tier 5.
Other than that, what I find most unfortunate was that the lower prices of requisition projects were justified by smaller amounts of dyson marks obtainable (and also possibly by their will to make the rep more pleasant, less grindy). Now they're upping the prices on par with other reps (not to mention one set is 4-piece instead of 3-piece, thus more expensive in totality) while the dyson mark generation has remained the same (and I hope the intention of a more pleasant reputation is also still intact).
Now getting to Tier 5 of the Dyson rep may be easier than on other reps (and you get plenty consoles and some weapons of dubious quality that at least you can now vendor), but one of the reasons for getting to higher tiers - the exclusive sets of gear - are made far less obtainable (arguably harder to get than sets from other reps).
So I think this is stopping in the middle on the road to a better rep system. It's an incomplete transformation.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
At tier V you can trade 1 of the Commendations for 820 Dilithum ore and 20 Dyson Marks. Its a repeatable project that unlocks when you cap the rep.
Oh and I think the project took 20 hours. =/
They probably aren't finalized yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't finalized until very near the S8 launch considering the reaction thus far. Whether this would optimize to make it easier or harder, though, is an open question at the moment.
I can spend one hour doing two full Battlezone rotations and come out with 600-800 marks. And I am not even counting the dailies, not to mention the amount of Dilithium you collect doing this.
Also, it has not been mentioned in this thread, but realize as well that the store unlocks are given with tier completion, which I big in itself compared to the older reps. That is even more resources saved.
Again, I know these are my opinions mostly, but I would LOVE to see this rep system be applied to the older reps as well.
FA Dion - Romulan Engineer Officer
FA Zophie Delwynn - Fed Science Officer
You realize the last post before yours in this thread was before Season 8 was released right? I think that answers your question as to why people were whining about it. People always whine about things they don't know about. It's easier than waiting until content is released and they actually try it out.
I didn't ask to be President of the Balloon Enterprises! The Balloon Enterprises demanded it!
LOL....Yeah I had realized after the post that somehow I had arrived in the test forum and not the regular discussion forum. I am still trying to figure out how that happened.:eek:
FA Dion - Romulan Engineer Officer
FA Zophie Delwynn - Fed Science Officer
YES grindfest once more and somewhat a shortfall of expectations YET:
gotta be thankful for tokens..
Gear meh
Rep abilities GFG!!!!
So in the end its a wash, no it was not the grand improvement we all wanted but it is new and quality content, status quo we go...
Onward to slaughter dinos and grind one toon the hard way so the rest get it much easier!!!
I'm not hardcore but that's my observation
Here are the facts.
1- You dont get as many Dyson Marks as you do Omega Marks per queued event. You get about 1/3 the amount and they can take about twice as long.
2- You are removing the fun out of the Dyson grind by making it exponentially more grind heavy. I havent ran the ground on any other characters since you made your last change to remove the space dailies.
3- Omega Marks are easier to get. I can grind up about twice as many Omega marks in the time it takes to run the same amount of Dyson Mark missions.
4- Dyson is going to become the next Nukara where it is really a pain for minimal rewards and gets most, non die hard, gamers (those who play other games or are casual) the feeling that they are being forced into a hamster wheel.
I could understand removing the Dyson space daily wrap around missions. They gave a ton of dilithium. I can see you wanting to try to filter people through grinds to force them from not having a bazillion unrefined dilithium or becoming so wealthy they can crash the dilithium market.
Its just that rep shouldnt be that much of a pain. Give us more items to spend money on. I can see the amount of marks needed for Omega stuff because there are four space sets, a three piece space weapon set, a ton of ground sets at each mark with costume unlocks.
Dyson doesnt have all this. You have one space, one ground, one three piece weapon set and one costume unlock. And the marks you get do not give you the amount of progression satisfaction you have with Omega.
Do not treat this like Omega. It isnt. You are removing the fun factor for working up to get reputation.
Just keep it how it is and you will be fine. I just run my guys through the rep just to get the ground set and consel. Which I shouldnt say because you will probably double the price of those, making it worthless to go through there if you dont have time.
Dyson is like a welfare version of the Omega set. That is how I see it anyways. It has fun visuals. Etc. I am also working on unlocking all the Omega stuff. It just goes a lot faster with Omega. If you would give 120 dyson marks for one of the two space queues (during the bonus marks event) thats fine. It would be on par with Omega.
You dont. With bonus objectives you get 40-60 marks with missions that can take between 15-20 minutes on up to over a half hour depending on your group. And you only have two mission instead of a ton of STFs on both ground and space with Elite giving more Omega marks with bonuses completed than regular.
All this will become is a grind to finish tier 5 to get all the rep abilities. Like Nukara... at least for me it is. Nothing from Nukara Rep gives me a desire to grind out to get everything like Omega. Even New Romulus has its perks that some people might like to grind out the marks for.
@Desdecardo since 2008.
This ^^^
I been running Storming the Spire on Elite and I get 26 marks..... Did I mention On Elite?
That's comparable to a run on the Omega STFs on normal.
Even The Breach only gives 76-81 marks that I've seen, again, not quite measuring up to Omega STFs.
So if the Cost of the Dyson gear is to = the cost of the Omega, isn't this a bit incongruent ?
Uhm, I think you guys are missing a significant detail. Sure gear pieces may be 300 some odd tokens each just as in previous rep trees. But you are neglecting to realize that this is only a raw item cost and does not take the tier cost into consideration. After all, one cannot just grind 900 tokens and buy these items. One must earn each tier first!
This is where the grind is significantly easier than past iterations. Recall that omega marks themselves had to be spent on projects 29 at a time along with some other annoying items to procure to earn points towards advancing tiers. If you did a mission for omega marks and got like 40 on average you had to spend almost all of them on the stupid points projects and leave only 11 from each mission to save for gear!
But with Dyson rep you spend one single solitary token earned through doing some silly 5 minute task like fly to these three ships and press f. Oh and you get to fight 2 ships sometimes. And all of the marks you make on fleet missions you can theoretically save for gear. In theory you should be able to earn those same 900 marks like 4 times faster just doing basic fleet missions and getting silly little missions from the command center for commendations.
so when you consider the cost of the tiers themselves (A prerequisite for the gear) as part of the gear cost... you realize it's way less time intensive than it was before.
On top of all of this, you need cyber implants, which you only get from elite missions (which aren't really all that hard) and they pay out MORE marks.
26 dyson marks for an elite level stf that takes 2-3 times as long as conduit is.......and most especially when you just have afkers sitting at the start.