According to Mormon belief, the being we know as God was once a mortal, a native of the planet Kolob, who was granted dominion over this part of the universe as a reward for his extraordinary faith in life. (That's part of the prize every Mormon man strives toward - if he's good enough, he gets to be a steward of Creation.) Also, the Book of Mormon says that there were thirteen tribes of ancient Israel, not twelve; the thirteenth tribe went to the new Promised Land, far across the waters. (That'd be the Americas, for those paying attention.)
So, lost thirteenth tribe, ancient lost homeworld of Kolob/Kobol; add in a healthy dose of von Daniken's "ancient astronaut" garbage, stir well, place in oven until half-baked, sprinkle with spaceships, lasers that explode for some reason, and fires that can burn in a spacecraft landing bay (referenced in the remake's pilot, in a matter of moments, when the burning section was vented to space), and serve on a national TV network. Serves almost an entire season before being cancelled.
I'm Mormon (aka LDS) and I have no freaking idea what your talking about. Is there a different Mormon religion?
So, the fact of the matter is that it's kinda, sorta true, maybe. But not the way Jon is saying it.
And.... no.
Anyways, isn't against forum policy to discuss religion and stuff?
To stay on topic, Raiders in STO are Bird of Preys, which were falling behind in capability with the power creep. Therefore why their introducing upgrades for the BoPs.
Historically either subs (hard to detect) of fast warships that sometimes tended to be underprotected for their size. Occasionally had fewer but heavier guns than normal.
Penultimate example was the German cruiser Admiral Graf Spee, sometimes misnamed a "pocket battleship" because of its combination of size and guns. She sunk enemy freighters amounting to 50,000 tons altogether (no enemy casualties).
The ship didn't carry the usual 8 to 9 8inch guns but had 6 11inch guns instead but was also only armored against 5 inch guns. But it was fast and had good range.
In STO terms it's essentially a combination of less guns, less shields and less hull.
I think it should be noted that originally the category was called "Birds of Prey" but was renamed to "Raiders" though I'm not sure why. Perhaps Cryptic intended to add ships to the KDF that fit the concept that were not BoPs but has not yet done so.
I'm not sure if universal slots qualifies or whether that's seperate.
As far as the Aquarius is concerned: I'm all for a buff, along with a (minor) buff to the Saber but why must everything be the same on all sides? The Aquarius and the Saber have large impulse engines so why not use that? Give them a secondary set of impulse engines or integrated unique attack patterns, something nobody else can get. Make all factions more unique!
Okay, back to the original topic (We've strayed into Sport, Religion, History...)
Raider-the hallmarks of a Raider in the STO sense...
1. It must be fast.
2.It must have a good to great turn-rate. (18-22)
3. It's kinda Squishy when you pin it down (*low hull, low shields)
4. Limited number of weapons-six or less, and usually one less weapons mount than a proper Escort.
5. Multiple Universal Bridge officer stations-usually a majority.
those are the common hallmarks.
Faction-specific elements (based on examples in Holodeck right now):
1. Battlecloak (KDF, maybe Romulan).
2. fewer seats than any other ship at the same Tier (KDF only) from T2 up. (all T1 ships have the same number of seats regardless of class).
Now, projecting off the Plesh (the Breen Raider):
1. an extra Ensign universal (same number of seats as an Escort of the same tier) compared to KDF vessels.
2. Slightly higher hull/better shield mod than a KDF Bird of Prey, but still inferior to the better escorts at the same tier.
3. More bonus to the "Flanking Damage".
4. Definite Tactical focus. (BoPs are all universals, the Plesh-brek has a Commander Tac and a slant in console space toward tactical roles, I see this trend continuing with any hypothetical Federation Raider class.)
Now, as a KDF player...(and this will make some KDF player foamy, and others chuckle...)
Candidates in the Fed inventory for Raiderness...
Aquarius. That's it. match the stats to the Hoh'sus (increase the damn turn rate already,and give it some accelleration, then cut&paste the Plesh-Brekk's bridge seating.)
Don't do the T'varo-it's a Defiant clone in stats, leave it that way, it's quite powerful enough, instead, make a proper Romulan "raider" class scout following the basic outline of the KDF's Bird of Prey series, but tweaked for a singularity core, and use a variant of the Plesh Brek's concepts for the console slots (3/2/4 instead of 3/2/5) give it two dedicated seats (probably tac and sci) and three unis at Lt. or lower-more of a specialist, less of a generalist, but still a raider.
One thing I'd like to point out is that the Birds of Prey are not 'fast'. At least, they're no faster than the average escort. They have a .20 impulse modifier, same as ships like the Defiant, Somraw, etc. The Plesh Brek will be FASTER than the Birds of Prey, by dint of its .21 impulse mod. There are also other ships that are faster, in some cases much faster. Steamrunner, Veteran ships, JHAS, and the Risan Corvette.
This is why I advocated the BoPs at least get an across-the-board increase to the impulse modifier, to either .21 or .22. Whether this will be done, or whether the BoPs will simply get a 'short-term speed boost' mechanic, is something we'll have to wait and see on. It could really use it, because BoPs can't truly outrun escorts, and can't outrun people using souped-up JHASes and Risan Corvettes.
I'm Mormon (aka LDS) and I have no freaking idea what your talking about. Is there a different Mormon religion?
And.... no.
Anyways, isn't against forum policy to discuss religion and stuff?
Funny, because that guy that I linked to was also Mormon.
Edit: Okay, upon further research it seems the part of Exaltation about becoming a God and creating your own worlds has been getting phased out of LDS doctrine, so the younger you are the more likely it is that you've never heard of it.
[pointedly ignoring the theological discussion that's threatening to further hijack the thread]
True about the impulse modifier issue, but then again, if your impulse mod is high, and you line up for the shot, you're more likely to overshoot your target in a turning fight, esp. if both of you are running equal engine power, so I guess it evens out-the PB has a higher than average impulse mod, and if it's chasing someone with an average (.2) mod, the time spent in the pocket where the bonus lives is lower if the PB doesn't back off their engines.
My issue with the BoPs not having a higher impulse mod than escorts is that it makes it bloody difficult to escape the things unless you've got a big speed boost on you. I use Impulse Capacitance Cell, for example, it's only good for escaping pursuit. However, even that speed boost alone won't always ensure you get away, because people LOVE to chain APO, Deuterium, and whatever else. If a BoP can't get away and get out of the 10km weapons range (or at least out of weapons arc via spiraling), it's in trouble. Can't battlecloak safely when the enemy is able to shoot you, because of the paper-thin hull. Not unless you devote precious boff slots to hull-resist boosts, because the engineering armor/hull consoles are NOT enough.
Not to mention that Impulse Capacitance Cell can be neutralized/interfered with by pretty much every movement debuff out there. Only thing it can really 'fight' are tractor beams and gravity wells, and even then it won't escape if there's a strong enough pull (two tractor beams or an especially strong gravity well). So it's far from foolproof against skilled players who know how to fight BoPs.
Comments
I'm Mormon (aka LDS) and I have no freaking idea what your talking about. Is there a different Mormon religion?
And.... no.
Anyways, isn't against forum policy to discuss religion and stuff?
To stay on topic, Raiders in STO are Bird of Preys, which were falling behind in capability with the power creep. Therefore why their introducing upgrades for the BoPs.
Penultimate example was the German cruiser Admiral Graf Spee, sometimes misnamed a "pocket battleship" because of its combination of size and guns. She sunk enemy freighters amounting to 50,000 tons altogether (no enemy casualties).
The ship didn't carry the usual 8 to 9 8inch guns but had 6 11inch guns instead but was also only armored against 5 inch guns. But it was fast and had good range.
In STO terms it's essentially a combination of less guns, less shields and less hull.
I think it should be noted that originally the category was called "Birds of Prey" but was renamed to "Raiders" though I'm not sure why. Perhaps Cryptic intended to add ships to the KDF that fit the concept that were not BoPs but has not yet done so.
I'm not sure if universal slots qualifies or whether that's seperate.
As far as the Aquarius is concerned: I'm all for a buff, along with a (minor) buff to the Saber but why must everything be the same on all sides? The Aquarius and the Saber have large impulse engines so why not use that? Give them a secondary set of impulse engines or integrated unique attack patterns, something nobody else can get. Make all factions more unique!
One thing I'd like to point out is that the Birds of Prey are not 'fast'. At least, they're no faster than the average escort. They have a .20 impulse modifier, same as ships like the Defiant, Somraw, etc. The Plesh Brek will be FASTER than the Birds of Prey, by dint of its .21 impulse mod. There are also other ships that are faster, in some cases much faster. Steamrunner, Veteran ships, JHAS, and the Risan Corvette.
This is why I advocated the BoPs at least get an across-the-board increase to the impulse modifier, to either .21 or .22. Whether this will be done, or whether the BoPs will simply get a 'short-term speed boost' mechanic, is something we'll have to wait and see on. It could really use it, because BoPs can't truly outrun escorts, and can't outrun people using souped-up JHASes and Risan Corvettes.
Funny, because that guy that I linked to was also Mormon.
Edit: Okay, upon further research it seems the part of Exaltation about becoming a God and creating your own worlds has been getting phased out of LDS doctrine, so the younger you are the more likely it is that you've never heard of it.
There's a discussion about it on this page:
http://www.mormonchronicle.com/get-your-own-planet/
My issue with the BoPs not having a higher impulse mod than escorts is that it makes it bloody difficult to escape the things unless you've got a big speed boost on you. I use Impulse Capacitance Cell, for example, it's only good for escaping pursuit. However, even that speed boost alone won't always ensure you get away, because people LOVE to chain APO, Deuterium, and whatever else. If a BoP can't get away and get out of the 10km weapons range (or at least out of weapons arc via spiraling), it's in trouble. Can't battlecloak safely when the enemy is able to shoot you, because of the paper-thin hull. Not unless you devote precious boff slots to hull-resist boosts, because the engineering armor/hull consoles are NOT enough.
Not to mention that Impulse Capacitance Cell can be neutralized/interfered with by pretty much every movement debuff out there. Only thing it can really 'fight' are tractor beams and gravity wells, and even then it won't escape if there's a strong enough pull (two tractor beams or an especially strong gravity well). So it's far from foolproof against skilled players who know how to fight BoPs.