test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
STO vs Star Trek Feel
dinoyipi
Member Posts: 141 Arc User
With the release of Season 8, and the "dinosaurs with friggin' lasers on their heads", I've seen ever more complaints about how STO has lost the Star Trek feel. My argument here is that STO was doomed to do so from day one. A Star Trek MMO may sound good on paper, but there are a few fundamental differences that inevitably make it depart from canon.
First of all, in Star Trek, your main mission is to "Explore strange new worlds," etc. Whereas in MMO's (Granted, I haven't played very many) your main mission is to fight... and fight... and fight... and... well, you get the picture. Yes, I know there is plenty of fighting in the Star Trek canon, but the main characters usually make every effort to settle their differences diplomatically, with frequent success in doing so. In MMO's, the characters inevitably adopt a "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality.
This also brings up the issue of the value of life. In STO, you kill hundreds of sentient beings on a daily basis, and there's little to no evidence that you or your crew is bothered by it. Compare this to TNG's "The Wounded", where Chief O'Brien shows extremely deep regret over killing just one guy. Also compare "The Bonding", also TNG, where Commander Riker was asked how to get accustomed to being around death. "You hope you never do," he said. Star Trek places a high value on human(oid) life, while most MMO's... don't.
And then there's the whole leveling system. In canon, it is implied that most promotions are given to those who show good character and leadership skills. In MMO's, for the most part, you gain rank based on how many bloody missions you can complete. (I say "bloody" in its literal sense, not as a profanity.)
What about currency? The Federation is supposed to be a utopian society where currency has been basically eliminated. How come, all of a sudden, I have to pay 20 Energy Credits just to pick up a cup of Earl Grey? This makes sense for a starship on a deep space mission, where resources are limited, but why at Earth Spacedock or Starfleet Academy?
All that said, I am not saying that I dislike STO; on the contrary, I enjoy it very much. I just wish players would stop complaining about losing the Star Trek feel, because I don't think that it was really there in the first place. A true Star Trek feel, IMHO, is incompatible with the typical MMO formula.
First of all, in Star Trek, your main mission is to "Explore strange new worlds," etc. Whereas in MMO's (Granted, I haven't played very many) your main mission is to fight... and fight... and fight... and... well, you get the picture. Yes, I know there is plenty of fighting in the Star Trek canon, but the main characters usually make every effort to settle their differences diplomatically, with frequent success in doing so. In MMO's, the characters inevitably adopt a "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality.
This also brings up the issue of the value of life. In STO, you kill hundreds of sentient beings on a daily basis, and there's little to no evidence that you or your crew is bothered by it. Compare this to TNG's "The Wounded", where Chief O'Brien shows extremely deep regret over killing just one guy. Also compare "The Bonding", also TNG, where Commander Riker was asked how to get accustomed to being around death. "You hope you never do," he said. Star Trek places a high value on human(oid) life, while most MMO's... don't.
And then there's the whole leveling system. In canon, it is implied that most promotions are given to those who show good character and leadership skills. In MMO's, for the most part, you gain rank based on how many bloody missions you can complete. (I say "bloody" in its literal sense, not as a profanity.)
What about currency? The Federation is supposed to be a utopian society where currency has been basically eliminated. How come, all of a sudden, I have to pay 20 Energy Credits just to pick up a cup of Earl Grey? This makes sense for a starship on a deep space mission, where resources are limited, but why at Earth Spacedock or Starfleet Academy?
All that said, I am not saying that I dislike STO; on the contrary, I enjoy it very much. I just wish players would stop complaining about losing the Star Trek feel, because I don't think that it was really there in the first place. A true Star Trek feel, IMHO, is incompatible with the typical MMO formula.
For personal reasons, I've left Star Trek Online.
Post edited by dinoyipi on
0
Comments
Star Trek was never consistent on that. Even as far back as TOS they talked about "credits" as a currency.
I agree with the rest, though. In particular, I'm of the opinion character rank should be divorced from character level, with the former capped at captain (unless Cryptic is going to pull us out of The Chair and have us commanding a battle group) and tied to story progression, not XP.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
If anything it was far more consistent on them having currencies. Latinum, energy credits, even dilithium was used as a currency in TOS.
The line in the voyage home that said they didnt use money anymore is actually the inconsistency.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Right now I'm trying to fit those dinosaurs in my personal story. Finding a reasonable way to explain their presence and use by the Voth is quite a challenge. Chances are I'll probably just forego it and exclude them altogether. :P
feds commanding bug ships, galors and d'kora. breen boff, reman boff, klingon feds. borg invading en-mass, dinosaurs with guns, voth ships, fed ships like akira and saber using cannons. unrealistic storylines, completely ignoring the obvious 8472 sabotage. spam and more spam officers of vice admiral rank and finally 2.5 dimensional movement.
this game never had any feel to it from the beginning.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I concur. I use the AGT uniforms (The Oddyssey uniform actually is a perfect continuation of that, serving my crew as "field jackets") and I also use the veteran alternate timeline combadge.
STO is one of the infinite anti-time futures to me. Most of it still makes no sense and is stupid, but it is a lot more "bearable" this way
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
voth were shown that they did not want to be recognised as being refugees and were originally dinosaur in origin on earth. voth using dinosaurs with weapons completely contradicts their own doctrine. so to me it never made sense.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Personally I think it's a cool concept but a little bit resemblance of Jurasic Park in space...
Have you guys ever though abott creating more conflict among Klingon, Dominion and Federations...
For example, each planet, each sector got a gauge, the dominant side will get a huge bonus on their side. By doing more missions, donation, red alert or even other stuff could cause certain side to gain control of the sector or planet...
It's science fiction, more originality creates a better possibilities of the storyline..
It's a livestock, and a one big and sturdy enough to be used as a weapon platform.
Just because two species are reptilian and from the same planet, it doesn't make them kindred.
Actually, tyrannosaurs and hadrosaurs were very far from each other. It's like humans using dogs for combat.
It still makes more sense than charging with melee weapons into ranged gunfire, which is done by our characters on a daily basis.
Really, those guys are arrogant enough to have problems with acknowledging humans as developed species, and they should have more consideration for animals? Why? Because said animal is a reptile?
its the way it was written when odala refused to believe the distant origin theory and the fear in her voice that her people were refugees from earth. gegen filled in the rest from voyager about being from dinosaur origin at that time. so the idea that dinosaurs exist besides voth would undermime the doctrine as a whole because its like stating that we now accept distant origin when it was clear they refused to listen to any of it.
transporting lifestock even in cryo would take thousands if not more ships. the only reason they fled earth was that at the time earth's lizard population was about to be wiped out. i doubt they had the time for more then a handful of ships freezing thousands of people in each.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The pew pew with phasers part of Star Trek was a minor aspect of the franchise (until JJ Trek) despite its popularity. However replicating that is well within the capabilities of video game technology and that is what you have.
So I'd like to suggest that in order to get that "Star Trek Feel" some folks go try and find the old FASA Star Trek RPG and some like-minded friends. They'll be much happier instead of dealing with the daily frustration of subjecting themselves to a game they don't actually want to play... If they were honest with themselves about it.
Ummmmmmmm, Humans have used a lot of animals in War...including Dogs
This is coming from some who has hindsight in their signature. Before f2p, this game was dead as in little content besides the stuff coming into the c-store. Other than the Q'onos revamp, no new major content was added since Season 3.
Besides, all of the stuff that was added since Season 5, all have their roots in Trek lore despite the crying and whining of so-called Trek fans and the players who literally take the kill five KDF groups as literal, but then again will forget how many members of a species that died when the Enterprise destroyed such and such alien ship, or when the Defiant would mow down bug ships or when Sisko deliberately poisoned the atmosphere of a planet.
If we look at old popular Trek games like Starfleet Academy or Bridge commander or Starfleet Command, do you really think that one starship could do all that in said missions? but it would be implausible for a STO character to the exact same, but on a longer game path?
Yep, that was always one of the main stated missions (along with checking on Federation Outposts, defending Federation territory and assets); BUT, let's be honest in that:
While often a Star Trek episode opened with a Captain's Log entry stating that they're assigned to study/map/gather data on <insert astronomical event here> - usually, within the teaser (or soon after the opening credits; some other plot complication/situation arose that became the true focus of the 42-50 minute episode and all the 'exploration' was put on the backburner. (Again, there maybe the rare exception to this but across 700+ TV episodes and 12 feature films, what I state was usually the case.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Which is why it's believable with Voth as well. From their point of view tyrannosaurus is probably nothing more than an animal.
I disagree strongly.
Simple fact of the matter is that the "Star Trek feel" is not a consistent entity. And I'm not talking about simple person-to-person variation.
There seem to be a continuum here among Star Trek fans. There are, unsurprisingly, two strongly polarizing ends. One end essentially wants Star Trek to teach moral tales (or, rather, the morals they believe in, and they coincide with Roddenberry's) and the entertainment is just how it's transmitted. The other enjoys the adventurous part for the most part, which may or may not include battles, and may well essentially ignore the moralizing that goes on, though they may appreciate a well-written story with those elements.
Consider what are frequently thought as the best episodes of DS9 and TNG. While some of the 'ethics' episodes are in there, a lot of them involve, quite frankly, lots and lots of fighting and action. For instance, Best of Both Worlds, and the war arc that so many people are so fond of in DS9. This is something I think that some people like to sweep under the rug when discussing Trek, because it deviates from what they wish to believe about the show.
A Star Trek MMO will appeal to the latter group, those who like space adventures and blowing stuff up. The former group is going to be left out, because that is incompatible with the MMO formula - and frankly most games where you would have much interaction. They are after an ideal that may not have actually existed in aired Trek material due to the fact that such moralizing isn't mainstream. In fact, many things that were not in the original vision of Trek made their way in and some are very popular. For instance, Gene Roddenberry stated that espionage and the like would "devolve" Trek into some level of Buck Rogers silliness. However, Section 31 certainly fits that bill, and it seems like a lot of people like the addition of such a group, and even though it rankles others, it is still part of Star Trek.
Simple fact of the matter is that video games as we know them are far better designed to handle combat. Every Star Trek game I'm aware of had combat as a major focus. Even the problem-solving ones (e.g. Star Trek 25th anniversary for the PC) had a lot of combat in it.
So, I think that STO captures the Star Trek feel for a given portion of Star Trek feel. You get the environment and the ships and the combat and the political situation. You get stuff the mainstream likes. The hard-core moralistic portion of the Trek community, however, is out of luck here. Nevertheless, Star Trek was always a compilation of the work of hundreds and thousands, not the sole province of Gene Roddenberry as many would have you believe. As such, some facets of Star Trek and its feel will shine through; the question is whether or not these are the facets you enjoy.
In the Star Trek show, aliens were used as ciphers for examining humanity. This includes the Voth, and their role in the Voyager episode.
From Roddenberry:
http://tos.trekcore.com/episodes/sea...x01/audio.html
"Perhaps I could use this as an excuse to go to those far off planets, with little polka-dotted people, if necessary. And to be able to talk about love, war, nature, God, sex, all those things that go to make up the excitement of the human condition. Maybe the TV censors would let it pass because it all seemed so make-believe."
You have generally shown a balanced view except for the emphasis on the "lots of fighting and action" as being a feature of the "best episodes".
Even the "war arc" in DS9, use as a Star Trek concept - the war and "action" is used to examine and explore human nature. It is that exploration which makes it a "best" or not episode, not the action itself.
----
In relation to both posts, consider the use of the character of Q (John de Lancie). Ostensibly, just another "god-like being", unlike TOS beings, is not a villain to be defeated or escaped.
Q as an "alien" is used to examine humanity from an "outside" perspective. Some of the best Star Trek is the verbal and philosophical dueling between Picard and Q - and is true to the original concept of what Star Trek is.
Get yer shiny.
You might get a feeling of Trek once in a blue moon from a Foundry mission. That is not as important as your stats and currency, it seems.
If you want Star Trek, then this is either the wrong game for you, or you can't find the relevant Foundry mission, to no fault of your own. Most Foundry authors write their missions for an entirely different game. At least, I know that I do.
This game is an arcade game, meant to capitalize on an IP and get your cash. It doesn't matter if the devs are actual fans. They probably hate it as much as most folks do. It's a cash grab on your delusions.
Don't try to compare. Just press F.
While I agree with the premise that peoples' fragile immersion is their own fault and not necessarily Cryptic's problem, that doesn't absolve Cryptic from at least trying to remain consistent to their own feel so as to provide something solid for people to build their immersion around. And honestly, Cryptic is doing a relatively poor job at that. Mostly because they can't seem to decide whether to go full comic book or dial it back. You get damn fine designs like the Odyssey Uniform, Odyssey-class, Daeinos-class, things that look like they'd be right at home on a TV show, but then you get dinosaurs with lasers on their heads and all that is just blown to hell.
For the record I don't hate the dinosaurs and file it under the same heading as salt vampires and space TRIBBLE - standard Trek silliness.
Wh-da-pfft-why are you still here? Are you some kind of Trek flagellant? Or is STO like your abusive boyfriend that you can't leave because he tells you he loves you between beatings?
Seriously you say nothing good ever about this game, move the hell on.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
OK. It's about time.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Well, we'd have an easier time getting reads, if it was a site of fan fiction. Even like a geocities site.
Make a puzzle/problem-solving game, similar to the Ace Attorney or Professor Layton series. Don't have the player be the Captain right away; have him/her start out as just a crewman/ensign bridge officer. Via various minigames and dialogues, the player would handle shipboard maintenance, contribute to intellectual discussions, and be assigned to away missions. Combat in this game would be another minigame, as opposed to the main focus.
When the player is on an away mission, there is a degree of possibility that some baddies will come and try to disrupt the away team, depending on how dangerous the mission is. That's where the player gets to engage in ground combat once in a while. Eventually, the player will get to pilot a shuttle, and sometimes have it engage enemy small craft for the first taste of space combat. After a certain amount of play time, the player may become high enough rank that he/she gets to command the starship once in a while, such as during the night watch.
Finally, close to the middle of the game as opposed to the start, the player gets promoted to Captain and gets his/her own command. At this point, the player gets improved selection of his/her ship and crew. Maybe, just maybe, the player could get promoted to Rear Admiral near the end of the game, allowing the command of entire squadrons. The higher rank the player, the more pressure there is to make the tough decisions of command.
So yeah, there's my .02 Latinum bars on how a Star Trek game could work.
This sums it all for me.
So in a nutshell, i think the STO is more like a giant Trek convention. the rules are made by ppl looking for the biggest "exitement" which is a lot of pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew... (well you get the idea.)
For example, pepole using all kinds of different uniforms, most of them don't even look like Trek uniforms at all.
(in fact finding someone using a trek uniform can take a while, lol)
People running around with gund bigger as a child.
We can even change our ships appearance (within cryptics limits).
Cryptic doesn't care much about canon at all. We have ferengi marauders, Cardassian Galor Classes and Excelsior Classes that can outgun a Galaxy Class. Not even CBS bothers.
We have the Captains table, which seems to be some kind of Nexus.
But giving us a Galaxy class that doesn't suck or some additional ship parts for the Odyssey or the Avenger seems to be a big problem for Cryptics devs.