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The Avenger Class Battlecruiser
yreodred
Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
I think we all agree that the Avenger is a ship that divides people (to say it mildly) about its aesthetics. I know cryptics devs are already drowning in work, but that ship SERIOUSLY needs some alternative ship parts.
I also know that creating new ship parts or a complete new ship takes a big amount of time, so i would like to ask just for a alternative saucer for that ship.
Seriously i have tried to become accustomed to it, but i just can't stand the look of that ship. I get real physical headarche when looking at it.
Its saucer is just too small, considering how bulky and massive it's hull is.
It is really frustrating to have such a fine ship in this game, but i just can't use it. Not even if Cryptics would pay me for using it.
So i would like to ask for some very simple additions for the Avenger Battlecruiser. Ship parts from other ship could easily be added (with some minor modifications, of course).
I am thinking about the Steamrunner Saucer amongst other things. It is bulky enough to fit to the rest of the Avenger class and would easy blend to the general shape of it. Also some Interpid saucers would also fit (Cochrane and Bellerophon class).
Those ships Nacelles would also perfectly fit to the avenger class IMHO.
The parts are there and we have seen kitbashes even in Trek TV shows more than once. I think Cryptics devs should really spend that ship some additional ship parts.
I also know that creating new ship parts or a complete new ship takes a big amount of time, so i would like to ask just for a alternative saucer for that ship.
Seriously i have tried to become accustomed to it, but i just can't stand the look of that ship. I get real physical headarche when looking at it.
Its saucer is just too small, considering how bulky and massive it's hull is.
It is really frustrating to have such a fine ship in this game, but i just can't use it. Not even if Cryptics would pay me for using it.
So i would like to ask for some very simple additions for the Avenger Battlecruiser. Ship parts from other ship could easily be added (with some minor modifications, of course).
I am thinking about the Steamrunner Saucer amongst other things. It is bulky enough to fit to the rest of the Avenger class and would easy blend to the general shape of it. Also some Interpid saucers would also fit (Cochrane and Bellerophon class).
Those ships Nacelles would also perfectly fit to the avenger class IMHO.
The parts are there and we have seen kitbashes even in Trek TV shows more than once. I think Cryptics devs should really spend that ship some additional ship parts.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
A tale of two Picards
https://youtu.be/d-f3bscZa0E?t=105(also applies to Star Trek in general)
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I have both versions and I love it with the upswept pylons. It looks exactly like what it's supposed to be: a cruiser built purely for combat. It's compact, it's beefy, and it's got fun little details like blast shielding over the viewports and nacelles (that's the source of the noise you hear whenever an Avenger exits or enters combat).
One theory on the folks who don't like it: they don't like that it's representative of a more militaristic Starfleet.* To this I say, Starfleet was always a military organization. Even if you prefer not to call yourself a military, if you are an organized group that operates under recognizably military procedures and you are the group whom your legal government legally turns to when armed force is required, you're a military. The difference is, Starfleet isn't just a military.
Alternate theory: It clearly draws inspiration from the JJverse USS Vengeance, which irritates the Abrams haters.
* I also note that these people don't seem to be complaining overmuch about the abundance of "escorts", a term which DS9: "The Search, Part I" openly admits is a euphemism for "warship".
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Starfleet never was purely explorational. As a matter of fact it was more often a navy than it was a diplomatic/scientific force.
Secondly - I simply can't see where it resembles the Vengeance which reminds more of the Excelsior class.
EDIT: It just hit me that it resembles Abrams' Constitution though:
image taken from this thread
I realize that the Avenger is supposed to look sturdy and like a Beast, i accept all that.
I just find that its Saucer looks too small. A narrow Saucer makes that ship look unproportional and takes away ANY kind of balance whatsoever.
A wide (or even better a round) Saucer would work like a optical counterbalance and would make the ship look even more like a Hot rod (as it is supposed to be).
Just as a example, the original Excalibur that was planned for STO had a great saucer section which would fit perfectly on the Avenger Class. (just forget the rest of the ship for a minute)
btw. i am not a abrams hater, in fact i like the ships from the new movies, but Cryptics designers just can't create good looking Starfleet ships, because they don't care about optical balance and proportion.
It looks more like the Avenger from a distance, and from certain angles.
Vengeance in background. Also has some resemblance from head-on (see the warp fight and the crash scene).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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It seems to me that Cryptics designers just kept out what made the Vengeance look cool and powerful, but keept what it made rather look so so.
As i said, i am no longer completely against that design, but it just doesn't look completed, with just such a tiny and pointy saucer. I mean a seperated Galaxy Class looks better than this ship IMO.
I know i can talk about this 'till the cows come home, as long as no dev is listening, lol. I just hope someone at cryptic agrees and donates the poor Avenger an appropriate Saucer.
I completely agree. The rest of the ship looks bulky, muscular, and aggressive. The saucer ought to reflect that as well, IMO. While the saucer is aggressive in a way with its pointiness and the preponderance of forward-facing cannons, it's a very different flavor of aggression. There's a lot to like about the Avenger design, but I think it could be seriously improved with the addition of a new saucer option.
I understand what the designers were going for, but the saucer looks incongruously dainty compared with the relatively brutish secondary hull and nacelles. The end result is that the ship looks oddly like a rubber duck from the side. It's not well-balanced between the front and the back. The dorsal surface is sleek and refined in the vein of the Intrepid class, while the ventral surface is blocky and unfinished looking. I do like the glowing sensor dome homage to the TOS Constitution that they're doing on many 2409 designs, however.
Perhaps a broader, more muscular saucer section would look better? My preference would be for a nearly circular design, possibly with a blunted rear edge. The concept art posted earlier in this thread could serve as an excellent inspiration.
THATS what i am talking about!
The avengers saucer just looks too pointy, which is a complete different kind of agressiveness compared to the muscular and blocky rest of the ship. It just looks out of place on that ship. A round (circular) and beefd up Saucer would look much better on it, establishing the needed balance between forward and rear section of the ship.
Two additional saucer options, one more traditional Odyssey/Sovereign style and one more chevron-shaped, like Intrepid class, but bigger/longer, could be used to enchance its appearance.
If i had the choice to add two additional styles, i would create one Intrepid like Saucer and one like i have posted above, round or eliptic, more Galaxy like (wide and powerful looking). So we would have two quite different saucers to choose from, instead of just long and narrow ones.
My personal favs would be a Cochrane Class saucer and a Steamrunner like Saucer. What i really miss is essentially a wide and lofty styled (i hope thats the right expression) looking Saucer, there aren't many like that in STO. The Devs seem to favour narrow and strangely rounded saucers, sadly.
(i always think they look like tongues...)
You're in the wrong forum, buddy. We're talking about Avenger visuals.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The funny thing is that Perpeduals Excalibur class is already in the game. Some sector space combat maps (where you can fight Klingons or Borg) feature a destroyed excalibur class ship. So i think it wouldn't be a big problem for Cryptics devs to create some alternative Avenger ship parts that look like Perpeduals Excalibur class.
At least they wouldn't have to start from scratch.
Here some references:
Cryptics Avenger
Perpeduals Excalibur class
No matter what some ppl may say, i think this ship would make a excellent addition to the Avenger class, since even some proportions are similar, but much more balanced and pleasing for the eye.
The difference between that ship and Cryptics Avenger is that this one doesn't look especially good on screenshots, but as 3D model its almost beautfiful.
Cryptics avenger on the other hand can be used to create some nice screenshots, but the overall 3D model is rather ugly IMO. So i think both ships would perfectly complement each other.
I think with a bit of polish, this would be exactly what the Avenger ship model needs to be complete.
@Devs PLEASE
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I think it could work as very different style, with neck and engineering hull blended into one unit. I am not saying it should be the new standard or something like that, but i like the different approach. At least it looks much more interesting than the Avenger IMO.
I certainly would use its saucer and maybe even the much wider pylons.
(and i certainly would experiment with the massive neck, lol i hop this doesn't get missunderstood.:D)
As i said, a good texture (hull material) and the ship would look much better. At least it would be a welcome change from the exaggerated streched look and egg shaped saucers we always get from cryptics designers.
For what the Avenger is - the model really works for me, though she looks a little bit too much like an Intrepid with the fleet pylons.
I'd say that if the Excalibur had the Avenger's neck and nacelles, it might actually be kinda pretty.
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Personally I'd go with something like this:
Note that I cut it down to the edge of the saucer. Lowering the neck braces will make the hull not look so bulky, the saucer should then appear larger and more in place.
Still looks like a duck IMO.
The only thing that could give that ship a bit dignity is to give it a bigger saucer (much bigger).
http://i.imgur.com/ovK44.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/22IDb.png
http://i.imgur.com/vRz8k.png
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Indeed.
It's a shame that Cryptics Excalibur ship model can't be used actually.
I think Perpetual was planing some different ship system as Cryptic did in the end.
Some while ago i saw screenshots like the first one you posted, but with some Sovereign styled ship parts as well as Galaxy. So i believe that both ships where supposed to be the same just different appearances including the Excalibur.
What a nice idea to just merge both the Sovereign and Galaxy into one ship actually and only give them different ship parts and make them interchange.
I don't know if Cryptics ship tailor allows such extreme different ship shapes, but i think the Excalibur Model would be a good completion for the Avenger.
And let's be honest the Avengers appearance is one of the most dividing ships in STO. So i think Crypticd dves really should make us all a favour and spend the Avenger some additional ship parts.
I don't know if Cryptics ship model is actually better, but Perpetuals Excalibur didn't look as ugly as Cryptics Avenger.
I know it's not perfect, but i think this ship looks much better than that misshaped ugly thing Cryptic calls Avenger. The best thing would be to add it's ship part to the Avenger ship model so we would at least have some different looking parts to improve the Avenger.
Also, I've fired up my PS and created this beauty/monstrosity:
(please ignore my bad, bad Photoshop skills) (Also sorry i used the fleet version to all the people who like the upswept pylons more, but this was the only picture in a good angle to combine I could find)
While this is far from perfect, it does show how the Excalibur saucer would combine with the secondory hull of the Avenger. Those lines in the center of the saucer could potentionally flow well into the (current) split neck
problem solved.
Also, don't start with turn rates, because basically all romulan endgame ships that aren't the Ha'pax.
Most Assault Crusier saucers (except the majestic which looks ugly in its own terms = egg shaped) are way to narrow and wouldn't add much of a difference to the Avenger IMO.
@cobaltfleet
Nice idea, i had something similar in mind.
It looks almost like the Luna Class. I wouldn't mind having such a saucher as alternative too, but a much wider one should be added also IMO.
@devs
I understand the idea behind the Avengers looks, muscular, bulky and sturdy.
But that narrow, almost tender looking saucer is killing it totally. What that ship needs is a saucer, similar like Perpetuals Excalibur has. Wide, massive, something that has "weight", which doesn't look like a unnecessary addition and like a foreign body.
Surely the front view makes it look like every other Cryptic made Starfleet ship, since the odyssey, but every other point of view looks ugly and totally unbalanced.
Don't get me wrong this doesn't make the ship more agressive looking, quite the difference. That fine, almost underdeveloped saucer make the ship look like a cartoon dog with a much too small head (so small the rest doesn't look strong and powerful anymore, just laughable).
Personally i don't get it, the devs immediately added some additional nacelles to it when some people where complaining about the fins on it (if that would have bee a probelm, compred to the rest of the ship). Obviously that wasn't much of a problem.
Adding some Saucer and other ship parts from other ships shouldn't be much of a problem IMHO. Perpetuals Excalibur ship model is already in game, i really don't understand why they didn't made it a alternative for the Avegner in the first place it's so obvious, i am almost out of words.
Putting the pylons down helped. I feel like a BA Intrepid.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
The nacelles on the GCS are also much thicker, as is the bottom of the engineering hull, and the Intrepid's nacelles are set further back (I believe). The Intrepid also has even more of an elongated saucer than the Avenger does.
As bad as the visual balance on the Avenger may be, the visual balance on the Perpetual Excalibur-class is much worse. It's all saucer and practically no stardrive.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/