People criticizing Cryptic does not prevent anyone on the Dev team from doing their jobs. Their jobs are to continue to work on STO. Their jobs are not to interact with the community. That is strictly extra.
People criticizing Cryptic does stop Devs from posting.
And for the record, if I were the only competent person on the team (which I most certainly am not), and people were telling me that Cryptic was incompetent, I would still take some of that personally. That doesn't mean I'm going to break down into a quivering pile of self loathing. I can take it, but I am a Human, not Vulcan. My work is my work, and you can tell me all day that I shouldn't feel anything when people tell me it's bad, but feelings are not something I have a ton of control over.
When people get frustrated from either side, it doesn't help. What I think the STO cam do to help lesson the player frustration with the team is to be more transparent about bugs and them being fixed. RP'ers are going to be more upset if their costumes are glitched than most other things. Some players like a particular mission or missions. They are going to be unhappy if those are broken. C-Store content that people either grind like crazy or pay real money for needs to be polished before release. Are these things really too much to expect? If something is bugged and your team can't get to it right away, just saying so and acknowledging the bug goes a long way.
I am sorry but when people call EA evil they arent calling the thousands of people that work at EA as evil, a company is not a entity.
We cannot know who is responsible for what decision and we had developers saying this or that was done for monetary reasons, I can point out the DOFF Grinder were the changes were done because Geko believed it was affecting DOFF Packs sales and even wanted to make it more expensive.
I know that someone at Cryptic come up with some ideas, I know that someone at Cryptic implemented X or Y but I have no names but there is something, there are people that are responsible for their departments, the Leads and Heads are ultimate responsible for what happens on their departments, I could blame Dan Stahl since he is the Executive Producer for STO and I could blame Al Rivera as he is Lead Designer but there is another thing too, that is company culture that is how the people will actually act and how people within the company will make certain type of decisions, EA being "evil" is a result of a culture that created a certain type of behavior at all types of echelons by the people that worked there.
Criticism is well warranted and deserved, no man or institution is above it and ... reducing the forums as nothing but sung of endless praise so Developers would post would be ... non productive and even counter-productive.
If that is the price to pay, its a cost I shall not burden and I had not as I left places that in fact became like that.
Thank you! You stated some points I was trying to get at much better than I could.
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People criticizing Cryptic does not prevent anyone on the Dev team from doing their jobs. Their jobs are to continue to work on STO. Their jobs are not to interact with the community. That is strictly extra.
People criticizing Cryptic does stop Devs from posting.
And for the record, if I were the only competent person on the team (which I most certainly am not), and people were telling me that Cryptic was incompetent, I would still take some of that personally. That doesn't mean I'm going to break down into a quivering pile of self loathing. I can take it, but I am a Human, not Vulcan. My work is my work, and you can tell me all day that I shouldn't feel anything when people tell me it's bad, but feelings are not something I have a ton of control over.
For the most part I'm satisfied with what Cryptic as a whole does. There are just small details that could be addressed at some point but beyond that it improves on each new season.
The big things that pleased me out of the new season were Territorial Control, Had like one minor disconnection which isn't something to cry about when many hours with no interuption which can't be said for any past seasons. As well the problem I've had forever is the vendors/rep store projects that gave set items ALWAYS gave me incorrect items on first run didn't do it with this new rep.
It's all in how it's phrased. I have had long thread discussions on an issue, with everyone expressing their opinions respectfully. And I've been told that Cryptic is a bunch of lazy, money-grubbing uh. . . jerks. . . after a single post. And while often, if I'm in that thread, "Present company is excluded," I AM a part of Cryptic, so if you are calling Cryptic as a whole any of those things, you are leveling that accusation at each of us.
Just always keep in mind that the vast majority of people posting here are very much able to present their critisism in a civilized way. But despite their occasional critique they are able to see the bigger picture of a game they really like to play. Why else would they play it and care about its bugs and flaws? You can always tell from someone posting a thread that sounds like "I hate everything, I hate this game, I hate everybody playing it and I hate the company" that they are just extremly frustrated from life and not to be taken seriously. And you could do EVERYTHING they have asked for (not that you should!) and they would still continue to hate it.
Criticism, especially valid criticism, is part of the job description for this line of work. You can either work against it, or make it work as a motivator.
I am sorry but when people call EA evil they arent calling the thousands of people that work at EA as evil, a company is not a entity.
We cannot know who is responsible for what decision and we had developers saying this or that was done for monetary reasons, I can point out the DOFF Grinder were the changes were done because Geko believed it was affecting DOFF Packs sales and even wanted to make it more expensive.
I know that someone at Cryptic come up with some ideas, I know that someone at Cryptic implemented X or Y but I have no names but there is something, there are people that are responsible for their departments, the Leads and Heads are ultimate responsible for what happens on their departments, I could blame Dan Stahl since he is the Executive Producer for STO and I could blame Al Rivera as he is Lead Designer but there is another thing too, that is company culture that is how the people will actually act and how people within the company will make certain type of decisions, EA being "evil" is a result of a culture that created a certain type of behavior at all types of echelons by the people that worked there.
And yet the company is made up by all those people, many of whom may enjoy their individual portions of the company, the job they do, the pride they have in themselves, their work, and for their teammates. You can't exclude the people from the company, as every one of their individual departments, pieces of work, opinions, and choices may be the things that come together to give you this impression of an evil overlord of a company.
So yes, calling Cryptic a childish name in a fit of rage in the forums does tend to label all within it.
It would be...arguably..."safer" to pick a more specific target if you don't want to cause so much collateral damage. But when has it EVER looked good when someone flies off the handle in a public venue, yelling obscenities and pointing fingers in blame, comparing them to various bodily fluids and distasteful things?
There's really no excuse for it. If you have a problem, lay it out calmly, explain your case, and have a rational discussion or debate. No one ever truly responds well to being called "evil" or treated like so much dirt. Yes, they might make changes based on venomous feedback in order to continue their job, but it'd be likely they wouldn't do it with so much feeling of care towards the foul-mouthed recipients of their work which in turn could affect the final product in a negative manner.
At least, I in that position wouldn't care by that point.
Human beings are the ones working at Cryptic, they aren't stuffed animals, dolls, or robots you can kick and toss about. Yes, in some cases or more, you and/or others may pay them to continue their service in a way that pleases you, and as it has been shown in countless cases over the last four years or so they will do their best to please as many people as they can to keep them here to continue to enjoy the game and keep it afloat by paying for it. This doesn't always succeed, and it sometimes backfires, but changes happen and then people continue playing. And I prefer to think this works well for Cryptic because many devs HAVE taken the time to talk with players and feel things out.
But basically scaring them into reclusiveness is only more likely to make such interactions less possible, and those with constructive feedback may be less listened to than before because of the actions of a hateful relative few.
Anyway, the comparison to EA is somewhat flawed, as much of it also stems from the people who've worked there at one point coming out with problems within the company itself. As far as I know thus far, Cryptic seems like an enjoyable place to work at, judging by the developers who communicate with players on a regular basis, but that's my personal observation.
Criticism is well warranted and deserved, no man or institution is above it and ... reducing the forums as nothing but sung of endless praise so Developers would post would be ... non productive and even counter-productive.
If that is the price to pay, its a cost I shall not burden and I had not as I left places that in fact became like that.
I think you're confusing the kinds of criticisms being discussed. What's being referred to is the prior-mentioned venomous forum posts and threads filled with people no longer being constructive but destructive.
It's one thing to say there's a problem and suggest fixes, alternatives, and other ideas that the devs might take into consideration, but it's a completely different thing to start right off with an aimless rant about the problem, calling Cryptic and/or those who specifically work on whatever is having the problem "inept," "incompetent," "stupid," "lazy," and a whole slew of various words and terms that aren't fit for children to use, much less mature adults.
This is definitely counter-productive and helps no one in the long run.
And there is absolutely NO excuse for such inelegant behavior, not here, not anywhere.
There are all sorts of examples in Star Trek about people trying to find common ground and avoid fighting to bridge the gaps between them in peace. To better themselves and others around them. There's little more that needs to be said in that regard.
Criticism is well warranted and deserved, no man or institution is above it and ... reducing the forums as nothing but sung of endless praise so Developers would post would be ... non productive and even counter-productive.
Why do people always imply that the only alternative to one extreme is the exact opposite extreme? There are plenty of options in between.
The usual madness of the interwebz aside, I think that a considerable part of the forum rage actually is a sign of a different problem.
How Cryptic (the company, and the individuals in charge) deals with player feedback is not only limited to the forums after all. Just a quick look at the biggies:
1) but reporting.
This feature is actually bugged for a very long time. Just being able to see who else reported similar issues, or that a bug report has been opened after it has been submitted, would go a long way in easing players rethoric. After reporting the same bug for 3 years straight, knowing that the forums had threads about xyz coming and going in lunar cycles even the most level-headed person reaches a limit.
We ( the costumers) are here to play, not to beta test. When it feels that someone has talked to a wall for 3 years, her forum posts might reflect that.
2) Tribble Testing, Focus Testing, Gozer minions....
We have testing channels, and often issues are found and brought to light there. Yet mostly these issues then go live on holodeck, in some cases within a "known issue" section of the patch notes.
This is frustrating for both sides. Maybe player assisted QnA needs a revamp? Its up to cryptic how to handle this to not loose money on holo. Make it as transparent to the community as possible, and give it time. Without any personal attacks, i think QnA for STO has much room for improvement. There are many players willing to help, but after being ingored for so long on a fair number of game breaking bugs, the ball to put a functional structure in place is in cryptics court.
3) Who does what and why? Brandon can't tell but thinks its great already.
There is a sales pitch and there is a meaningful conversation. Heretic's ownership of the doff system, snix' or gozer's of pvp, lead to productive interactions between players and Devs. Maybe twitter or 4h podcasts aren't the primary means of having these conversations, and a more personal oriented and direct interaction on the forums, could help lower the amount of Hitler in the long term.
Tl;DR it takes to in conversation to reach Hitler, maybe both sides can help to avoid it
People criticizing Cryptic does not prevent anyone on the Dev team from doing their jobs. Their jobs are to continue to work on STO. Their jobs are not to interact with the community. That is strictly extra. People criticizing Cryptic does stop Devs from posting.
Outside of the harsher rage postings, would you not say that some of the criticism is reactive? Lets all be honest. Cryptic has not necessarily been an angel.
Cryptic has/is:
- keeping dilithium costs high for holdings, rep items, and duty officers;
- gating content behind long timers and resource requirements;
- nerfing kits, weapons, consoles, and ships every other season;
- abandoning the casual and single-players;
- abandoning the PvP mechanics;
- abandoning featured episode 'series';
- abandoning the social zones;
- abandoned small fleets;
- abandoned KDF customization;
- ignoring the bugs and issues with the stfs;
- reducing the reward system to make progress a painful crawl;
- placed all the good items behind the Lobi store, so no one can buy them directly from the c-store;
- spamming the game with lockboxes;
- removing a steady means for obtaining certain resources;
- created a bloated currency system;
- etc...
According to Geko's own words, found within the interview, - Since there is no money in fixing or polishing stuff, Cryptic does not see any reason why they should go back.
As you can tell from many of the people who have replied, the bugs and grinding aspects of "Star Trek Online" has caused a serious problem.
Within a two year period of time, I have spent around $300 on the purchase of zen (f2p). Do you know how I was rewarded? More grinding, timers, nerfed content, and abandoned promises. Should I be happy? Should I thank you for turning "Star Trek: Online" into an overly-expensive grindfest and waiting game?
Cryptic has created some fantastic environments, featured episodes, gear, bridges, npcs, ships, and clothing. If I didn't like what I was seeing, I would not have rewarded you for your work.
I want to reward Cryptic for doing good work, but I do not see how I can continuously do so.
*shrugs*
While I am rewarding you with money, you are rewarding me with tripling the negative aspects of the game.
I do not call that win.
Should I be happy?
Should anyone be happy?
Should you be happy?
Since I believe in Cryptic so much, I just want to shake you guys awake.
I know Cryptic can do better, and it pains me to see otherwise.
Calm, well reasoned criticism doesn't stop anyone from posting.
Flames, Trolls, and Insults do.
The point being that Dev interaction is a bonus. It is not in the job description. They are paid to make the game, not talk to players.
No one is asking for this to turn into a place where everyone agrees with us, and tells us how amazing we are all day long. What I'm asking for is for it not to be a place where people slings mud at us whenever we walk into the room.
We want to know what you guys don't like. And we want to know how you think it should be addressed. But there are good ways to talk about this, and bad ways. I think everyone is fully aware of which is which.
Just always keep in mind that the vast majority of people posting here are very much able to present their critisism in a civilized way.
100% agree. And everyone, even the well reasoned types (and the Tacoy types), can have a bad day, and respond in a harsher manner than they might otherwise.
More to the point, people don't whine, complain, flame etc. about things that they don't care about.
Absolutely! Trolls aside, the most critical posters are super passionate about our game, and I think that's easy to forget. If we never got posts like that, I would worry.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Cryptic has/is:
- keeping dilithium costs high for holdings, rep items, and duty officers;
- gating content behind long timers and resource requirements;
- nerfing kits, weapons, consoles, and ships every other season;
- abandoning the casual and single-players;
- abandoning the PvP mechanics;
- abandoning featured episode 'series';
- abandoning the social zones;
- abandoned small fleets;
- abandoned KDF customization;
- ignoring the bugs and issues with the stfs;
- reducing the reward system to make progress a painful crawl;
- placed all the good items behind the Lobi store, so no one can buy them directly from the c-store;
- spamming the game with lockboxes;
- removing a steady means for obtaining certain resources;
- created a bloated currency system;
- etc...
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I hate to go through someones post line by line ans criticise, but this is too much to pass up.
- keeping dilithium costs high for holdings, rep items, and duty officers;
Diluthium costs for a single item rarely exceed 45k, and that can be earned in a week of casual play. I dont mind earning my gear, I might even learn how to play the game on the way. - As for holdings, well it wouldnt be much of a 'Fleet' if the combined efforts of a handfull of people could push it forward.
- gating content behind long timers and resource requirements;
The resource requirements are a pittance, though the 20 hour timer is a bit tedius. Sponsorship is a generous addition by cryptic that takes the sting off a bit.
- nerfing kits, weapons, consoles, and ships every other season;
Example? I for one welcome nerfs, im tired of steamrolling content by smashing my spacebar, or deliberately playing janky builds just to infuse my game with challenge, only to gimp myself in pvp vd min-max tryhards.
- abandoning the casual and single-players;
Tinfoil Hat?
- abandoning the PvP mechanics;
Im gonna give you this one.
- abandoning featured episode 'series';
- abandoning the social zones;
The players abandon social zones, and they stay in the game to add flavor. Why should cryptic continue to invest time and money in places no one goes, when there are so many places to go.
- abandoned small fleets;
Small Fleet is a bit of an oxymoron. The word fleet used in star trek always implied a LOT of ships. What you are describing is a squadron.
- abandoned KDF customization;
I really dont know about this, my kdf is quite unique and pleasing to me
- ignoring the bugs and issues with the stfs;
The only issue I know of in stfs is that a few of the space ones are mind numbingly easy - thats my own fault for running them so much. any hame with hard content is eventually trivialized.
- reducing the reward system to make progress a painful crawl;
Since season 8 dropped, I have more dilithium then I know what to do with, and even ground items are worth vendoring now. Kdf get dilithium for pretty much anything they do, including dying.
- placed all the good items behind the Lobi store, so no one can buy them directly from the c-store;
Hardly. The items in the lobi store are niche items, janky baubles that dont hold up to a min-maxer's scrutiny. They are there for flavor, and lobi is accessible for ec's. Cryptic could have made keys bind on pick up. also, they just basicaly gave away 500 free lobi to everyone.
- spamming the game with lockboxes;
right click, discard. simple.
- removing a steady means for obtaining certain resources;
Right, just to echo what's being said, nobody is suggesting that criticism is bad.
I would resign my Mod hat in a second if all negative criticism was being suppressed. Even "venting" frustration is useful. God knows, if we removed all of that, there'd be no reason to post here... and I wouldn't do that much work without drawing a paycheck
It's the "hate mail" posts that poison dialogue. If you see anything like that, please, PLEASE give the Mods a heads up. I am open to getting PM's and if that's not enough I can consider other means of making myself more available.
I also have to agree that the negative reactions do have a basis, for the most part. And I think improving the quality of communication can help. That's one reason why I'm here.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Right, just to echo what's being said, nobody is suggesting that criticism is bad.
I would resign my Mod hat in a second if all negative criticism was being suppressed. Even "venting" frustration is useful. God knows, if we removed all of that, there'd be no reason to post here... and I wouldn't do that much work without drawing a paycheck
I think Geko and Taco just have to make that clearer. Within their initial reaction, they seemed to be dismissing 'all' criticism.
It's the "hate mail" posts that poison dialogue. If you see anything like that, please, PLEASE give the Mods a heads up. I am open to getting PM's and if that's not enough I can consider other means of making myself more available.
I also have to agree that the negative reactions do have a basis, for the most part. And I think improving the quality of communication can help. That's one reason why I'm here.
Good interview. Done my fair share of nasty posting but the line should stop at personel ghreats of violence. Thats a foray into dangerous areas.
My big question is when will the Gates of Stovokor team get a chance to interview Geko?
Funny thing I've raged about KDF issues but I wouldn't ever go that far. I also would love to hear Geko get interviewed more on that bird of prey flanking idea he expressed.
Only thing I'd really add is a positive opinion can be just as valid and useful as a negative one, but it should adhere to the same principles, meaning: be detailed about what you like and why you like it. Just saying "Wow that was awesome!" is nice, but not very useful. But if you say "I like X because Y" that gives the devs some potentially useful feedback.
I think Al was being a little hyperbolic. I've never heard anyone around the office ask "How many posts to Hitler." But there is an expectation (just or not) that any comment by a Dev will be twisted, read into, and ultimately turned around to bite us in the butts.
I don't think we've ever invoked godwin here, but in all honesty commenting on the forums is inherently perilous. If you seem to make a promise about anything, people will take it as gospel, and string you up when it almost certainly doesn't happen as they imagined it would.
Totally not your fault, but it's hard to see that when there's a frothing mass of angry fans crying for blood because X feature promised in season 2 never got implemented.
At least for my opinion, what you guys might try doing is go find that list that's on the stowiki of all the 'things that were promised that never happened', and actually answer each one if possible. Because people are constantly harping on about 'failed promises' and that sort of thing, and it really informs new posters in a bad way- they see all these apparent grievances that are basically just ignored or have no comments on, and it biases them to bad posting habits.
I mean, a lot of this stuff is minor, minor stuff that got changed for minor, minor reasons, and I'm sure all the devs don't think anything of it. But on our end we're not privy to any of the processes behind that- so some sort of reference document about whenever you guys change direction, or something never gets released/fixed/made, would I think serve to help the community. If there wasn't the budget for a change, say so. If the next season that came out invalidated the reason for that change, say so. Explain why, in as little or much detail as necessary, but actually do so.
If you say something in an interview, and it turns out that that specific thing isn't feasible to do on the current build of the game.... say so.
You might say that more transparency will lead to more criticism- but at least it will be informed, accurate criticism. If we have something stating the reasons behind all the little changes that people care about, which in turn really ought to lead to better posting behaviour because people are making informed comments, rather than uninformed TRIBBLE like assuming Cryptic is lazy, doesn't work, or that it's some sort of homogenous group where your artists can bug fix this or that as easily as your bug fixers can make new ships- which really, we know to not at all be the case.
What I would love to see happen with Crafting, is what went on when Heretic was designing the DOFF system.
Heretic actively solicited the forums about what kinds of things we'd like to see in the DOFF system. He was very candid with us about the things they could do and the things that weren't going to happen. Players were able to dialogue with Heretic and some of us were really geeked about it when it was released. I'm hooked on DOFFing to this day and I still want Cryptic to keep expanding the Commendation system.
Even beyond the DOFF system itself, some other good things came out of that. Cryptic was able to arrange a marriage between the DOFF system and the ship interiors to make interiors interactive and somewhat interesting.
And, inevitably, the bad... Heretic fully expected that they would be able to create a First Officer and Department Heads system. But it didn't happen. There are still people asking for it. (Me included.) And others who think Cryptic broke a promise by not delivering one. But you know what? It may never happen. People think certain DOFFs contribute to too much power creep as it is... FO & DH would likely just compound that. And maybe it's not really something that sells Zen, directly or indirectly.
And that's why we won't get any say in Crafting. Unrealized expectations. There will not be a dialogue and there will not be any solicitation of ideas like with the DOFF system. It's going to show up in a Dev Blog and then on Tribble. We're probably going to get a "gem enhancement" system like CoH, Champs, and Neverwinter. It may not have that Trek Engineering/Kitbashing feel. And some of us are really not going to like it, no matter what they do.
I have similar feelings. I love the DOFF system and was so excited when it came out. I actually came back to the game for it and it was all I did for the first week or so on my various characters; I explored it. I wish the DOFF system could be expanded, but it feels like whenever they release something all people focus on is the "didn't" part of it. They didn't do this. They didn't do that.
There are finite resources. Sometimes you just can't do everything you want to do, even if they're asking for community opinions they can't do everything. Talk about feature creep. Make it as robust and functional as you can at first and then expand it over time, that's how it should be, but when you're faced with a bunch of spewed hatred because it wasn't "right the first time" who wants to even bother?
And I'm not saying everyone does that. Not everyone does, but not everyone is innocent either. I know I've caught myself getting ready to complain about something and I feel bad for it. In fact I failed at this recently and I genuinely feel bad about it.
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When people get frustrated from either side, it doesn't help. What I think the STO cam do to help lesson the player frustration with the team is to be more transparent about bugs and them being fixed. RP'ers are going to be more upset if their costumes are glitched than most other things. Some players like a particular mission or missions. They are going to be unhappy if those are broken. C-Store content that people either grind like crazy or pay real money for needs to be polished before release. Are these things really too much to expect? If something is bugged and your team can't get to it right away, just saying so and acknowledging the bug goes a long way.
Thank you! You stated some points I was trying to get at much better than I could.
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For the most part I'm satisfied with what Cryptic as a whole does. There are just small details that could be addressed at some point but beyond that it improves on each new season.
The big things that pleased me out of the new season were Territorial Control, Had like one minor disconnection which isn't something to cry about when many hours with no interuption which can't be said for any past seasons. As well the problem I've had forever is the vendors/rep store projects that gave set items ALWAYS gave me incorrect items on first run didn't do it with this new rep.
But you are a taco vulcan!
Just always keep in mind that the vast majority of people posting here are very much able to present their critisism in a civilized way. But despite their occasional critique they are able to see the bigger picture of a game they really like to play. Why else would they play it and care about its bugs and flaws? You can always tell from someone posting a thread that sounds like "I hate everything, I hate this game, I hate everybody playing it and I hate the company" that they are just extremly frustrated from life and not to be taken seriously. And you could do EVERYTHING they have asked for (not that you should!) and they would still continue to hate it.
And yet the company is made up by all those people, many of whom may enjoy their individual portions of the company, the job they do, the pride they have in themselves, their work, and for their teammates. You can't exclude the people from the company, as every one of their individual departments, pieces of work, opinions, and choices may be the things that come together to give you this impression of an evil overlord of a company.
So yes, calling Cryptic a childish name in a fit of rage in the forums does tend to label all within it.
It would be...arguably..."safer" to pick a more specific target if you don't want to cause so much collateral damage. But when has it EVER looked good when someone flies off the handle in a public venue, yelling obscenities and pointing fingers in blame, comparing them to various bodily fluids and distasteful things?
There's really no excuse for it. If you have a problem, lay it out calmly, explain your case, and have a rational discussion or debate. No one ever truly responds well to being called "evil" or treated like so much dirt. Yes, they might make changes based on venomous feedback in order to continue their job, but it'd be likely they wouldn't do it with so much feeling of care towards the foul-mouthed recipients of their work which in turn could affect the final product in a negative manner.
At least, I in that position wouldn't care by that point.
Human beings are the ones working at Cryptic, they aren't stuffed animals, dolls, or robots you can kick and toss about. Yes, in some cases or more, you and/or others may pay them to continue their service in a way that pleases you, and as it has been shown in countless cases over the last four years or so they will do their best to please as many people as they can to keep them here to continue to enjoy the game and keep it afloat by paying for it. This doesn't always succeed, and it sometimes backfires, but changes happen and then people continue playing. And I prefer to think this works well for Cryptic because many devs HAVE taken the time to talk with players and feel things out.
But basically scaring them into reclusiveness is only more likely to make such interactions less possible, and those with constructive feedback may be less listened to than before because of the actions of a hateful relative few.
Anyway, the comparison to EA is somewhat flawed, as much of it also stems from the people who've worked there at one point coming out with problems within the company itself. As far as I know thus far, Cryptic seems like an enjoyable place to work at, judging by the developers who communicate with players on a regular basis, but that's my personal observation.
I think you're confusing the kinds of criticisms being discussed. What's being referred to is the prior-mentioned venomous forum posts and threads filled with people no longer being constructive but destructive.
It's one thing to say there's a problem and suggest fixes, alternatives, and other ideas that the devs might take into consideration, but it's a completely different thing to start right off with an aimless rant about the problem, calling Cryptic and/or those who specifically work on whatever is having the problem "inept," "incompetent," "stupid," "lazy," and a whole slew of various words and terms that aren't fit for children to use, much less mature adults.
This is definitely counter-productive and helps no one in the long run.
And there is absolutely NO excuse for such inelegant behavior, not here, not anywhere.
There are all sorts of examples in Star Trek about people trying to find common ground and avoid fighting to bridge the gaps between them in peace. To better themselves and others around them. There's little more that needs to be said in that regard.
Why do people always imply that the only alternative to one extreme is the exact opposite extreme? There are plenty of options in between.
How Cryptic (the company, and the individuals in charge) deals with player feedback is not only limited to the forums after all. Just a quick look at the biggies:
1) but reporting.
This feature is actually bugged for a very long time. Just being able to see who else reported similar issues, or that a bug report has been opened after it has been submitted, would go a long way in easing players rethoric. After reporting the same bug for 3 years straight, knowing that the forums had threads about xyz coming and going in lunar cycles even the most level-headed person reaches a limit.
We ( the costumers) are here to play, not to beta test. When it feels that someone has talked to a wall for 3 years, her forum posts might reflect that.
2) Tribble Testing, Focus Testing, Gozer minions....
We have testing channels, and often issues are found and brought to light there. Yet mostly these issues then go live on holodeck, in some cases within a "known issue" section of the patch notes.
This is frustrating for both sides. Maybe player assisted QnA needs a revamp? Its up to cryptic how to handle this to not loose money on holo. Make it as transparent to the community as possible, and give it time. Without any personal attacks, i think QnA for STO has much room for improvement. There are many players willing to help, but after being ingored for so long on a fair number of game breaking bugs, the ball to put a functional structure in place is in cryptics court.
3) Who does what and why? Brandon can't tell but thinks its great already.
There is a sales pitch and there is a meaningful conversation. Heretic's ownership of the doff system, snix' or gozer's of pvp, lead to productive interactions between players and Devs. Maybe twitter or 4h podcasts aren't the primary means of having these conversations, and a more personal oriented and direct interaction on the forums, could help lower the amount of Hitler in the long term.
Tl;DR it takes to in conversation to reach Hitler, maybe both sides can help to avoid it
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Cryptic has/is:
- keeping dilithium costs high for holdings, rep items, and duty officers;
- gating content behind long timers and resource requirements;
- nerfing kits, weapons, consoles, and ships every other season;
- abandoning the casual and single-players;
- abandoning the PvP mechanics;
- abandoning featured episode 'series';
- abandoning the social zones;
- abandoned small fleets;
- abandoned KDF customization;
- ignoring the bugs and issues with the stfs;
- reducing the reward system to make progress a painful crawl;
- placed all the good items behind the Lobi store, so no one can buy them directly from the c-store;
- spamming the game with lockboxes;
- removing a steady means for obtaining certain resources;
- created a bloated currency system;
- etc...
According to Geko's own words, found within the interview, - Since there is no money in fixing or polishing stuff, Cryptic does not see any reason why they should go back.
As you can tell from many of the people who have replied, the bugs and grinding aspects of "Star Trek Online" has caused a serious problem.
Within a two year period of time, I have spent around $300 on the purchase of zen (f2p). Do you know how I was rewarded? More grinding, timers, nerfed content, and abandoned promises. Should I be happy? Should I thank you for turning "Star Trek: Online" into an overly-expensive grindfest and waiting game?
Cryptic has created some fantastic environments, featured episodes, gear, bridges, npcs, ships, and clothing. If I didn't like what I was seeing, I would not have rewarded you for your work.
I want to reward Cryptic for doing good work, but I do not see how I can continuously do so.
*shrugs*
While I am rewarding you with money, you are rewarding me with tripling the negative aspects of the game.
I do not call that win.
Should I be happy?
Should anyone be happy?
Should you be happy?
Since I believe in Cryptic so much, I just want to shake you guys awake.
I know Cryptic can do better, and it pains me to see otherwise.
Calm, well reasoned criticism doesn't stop anyone from posting.
Flames, Trolls, and Insults do.
The point being that Dev interaction is a bonus. It is not in the job description. They are paid to make the game, not talk to players.
No one is asking for this to turn into a place where everyone agrees with us, and tells us how amazing we are all day long. What I'm asking for is for it not to be a place where people slings mud at us whenever we walk into the room.
We want to know what you guys don't like. And we want to know how you think it should be addressed. But there are good ways to talk about this, and bad ways. I think everyone is fully aware of which is which.
100% agree. And everyone, even the well reasoned types (and the Tacoy types), can have a bad day, and respond in a harsher manner than they might otherwise.
Absolutely! Trolls aside, the most critical posters are super passionate about our game, and I think that's easy to forget. If we never got posts like that, I would worry.
Great blog!
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
My big question is when will the Gates of Stovokor team get a chance to interview Geko?
R.I.P
I hate to go through someones post line by line ans criticise, but this is too much to pass up.
- keeping dilithium costs high for holdings, rep items, and duty officers;
Diluthium costs for a single item rarely exceed 45k, and that can be earned in a week of casual play. I dont mind earning my gear, I might even learn how to play the game on the way. - As for holdings, well it wouldnt be much of a 'Fleet' if the combined efforts of a handfull of people could push it forward.
- gating content behind long timers and resource requirements;
The resource requirements are a pittance, though the 20 hour timer is a bit tedius. Sponsorship is a generous addition by cryptic that takes the sting off a bit.
- nerfing kits, weapons, consoles, and ships every other season;
Example? I for one welcome nerfs, im tired of steamrolling content by smashing my spacebar, or deliberately playing janky builds just to infuse my game with challenge, only to gimp myself in pvp vd min-max tryhards.
- abandoning the casual and single-players;
Tinfoil Hat?
- abandoning the PvP mechanics;
Im gonna give you this one.
- abandoning featured episode 'series';
- abandoning the social zones;
The players abandon social zones, and they stay in the game to add flavor. Why should cryptic continue to invest time and money in places no one goes, when there are so many places to go.
- abandoned small fleets;
Small Fleet is a bit of an oxymoron. The word fleet used in star trek always implied a LOT of ships. What you are describing is a squadron.
- abandoned KDF customization;
I really dont know about this, my kdf is quite unique and pleasing to me
- ignoring the bugs and issues with the stfs;
The only issue I know of in stfs is that a few of the space ones are mind numbingly easy - thats my own fault for running them so much. any hame with hard content is eventually trivialized.
- reducing the reward system to make progress a painful crawl;
Since season 8 dropped, I have more dilithium then I know what to do with, and even ground items are worth vendoring now. Kdf get dilithium for pretty much anything they do, including dying.
- placed all the good items behind the Lobi store, so no one can buy them directly from the c-store;
Hardly. The items in the lobi store are niche items, janky baubles that dont hold up to a min-maxer's scrutiny. They are there for flavor, and lobi is accessible for ec's. Cryptic could have made keys bind on pick up. also, they just basicaly gave away 500 free lobi to everyone.
- spamming the game with lockboxes;
right click, discard. simple.
- removing a steady means for obtaining certain resources;
?????1?1??/!!
- created a bloated currency system;
see: ?????1?1??/!!
I would resign my Mod hat in a second if all negative criticism was being suppressed. Even "venting" frustration is useful. God knows, if we removed all of that, there'd be no reason to post here... and I wouldn't do that much work without drawing a paycheck
It's the "hate mail" posts that poison dialogue. If you see anything like that, please, PLEASE give the Mods a heads up. I am open to getting PM's and if that's not enough I can consider other means of making myself more available.
I also have to agree that the negative reactions do have a basis, for the most part. And I think improving the quality of communication can help. That's one reason why I'm here.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I particularly liked the link to Raph Koster's site. Was a very interesting read indeed.
You should take note of what Raph said in his blog Cryptic.
I completely agree on both accounts.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Funny thing I've raged about KDF issues but I wouldn't ever go that far. I also would love to hear Geko get interviewed more on that bird of prey flanking idea he expressed.
Mav did NOT sell out to trek radio in any sense of the word!
I don't think we've ever invoked godwin here, but in all honesty commenting on the forums is inherently perilous. If you seem to make a promise about anything, people will take it as gospel, and string you up when it almost certainly doesn't happen as they imagined it would.
Totally not your fault, but it's hard to see that when there's a frothing mass of angry fans crying for blood because X feature promised in season 2 never got implemented.
At least for my opinion, what you guys might try doing is go find that list that's on the stowiki of all the 'things that were promised that never happened', and actually answer each one if possible. Because people are constantly harping on about 'failed promises' and that sort of thing, and it really informs new posters in a bad way- they see all these apparent grievances that are basically just ignored or have no comments on, and it biases them to bad posting habits.
I mean, a lot of this stuff is minor, minor stuff that got changed for minor, minor reasons, and I'm sure all the devs don't think anything of it. But on our end we're not privy to any of the processes behind that- so some sort of reference document about whenever you guys change direction, or something never gets released/fixed/made, would I think serve to help the community. If there wasn't the budget for a change, say so. If the next season that came out invalidated the reason for that change, say so. Explain why, in as little or much detail as necessary, but actually do so.
If you say something in an interview, and it turns out that that specific thing isn't feasible to do on the current build of the game.... say so.
You might say that more transparency will lead to more criticism- but at least it will be informed, accurate criticism. If we have something stating the reasons behind all the little changes that people care about, which in turn really ought to lead to better posting behaviour because people are making informed comments, rather than uninformed TRIBBLE like assuming Cryptic is lazy, doesn't work, or that it's some sort of homogenous group where your artists can bug fix this or that as easily as your bug fixers can make new ships- which really, we know to not at all be the case.
I have similar feelings. I love the DOFF system and was so excited when it came out. I actually came back to the game for it and it was all I did for the first week or so on my various characters; I explored it. I wish the DOFF system could be expanded, but it feels like whenever they release something all people focus on is the "didn't" part of it. They didn't do this. They didn't do that.
There are finite resources. Sometimes you just can't do everything you want to do, even if they're asking for community opinions they can't do everything. Talk about feature creep. Make it as robust and functional as you can at first and then expand it over time, that's how it should be, but when you're faced with a bunch of spewed hatred because it wasn't "right the first time" who wants to even bother?
And I'm not saying everyone does that. Not everyone does, but not everyone is innocent either. I know I've caught myself getting ready to complain about something and I feel bad for it. In fact I failed at this recently and I genuinely feel bad about it.