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the voyager fleet ship still need to be updated
blackwind04x
Member Posts: 89 Arc User
They need to come out with a fitting.. 4 front and 4 back. Voyager wasn't just a science ship. Engineering played the biggest role..
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Couldn't agree more. Give us a cruiser version with 4, 4 set-up or increase any of the following: shield modifier, turn-rate, or innate abilities it has.
It is a bit disappointing for me because the Intrepid is my favorite ship from any of the shows or movies, but it is what it is. I would love the game to be more true to the shows and movies but we just got an expansion featuring Dinosaurs with lasers attached to them so... that is unlikely.
Sci abilities just dont cut the cake, in making up for the versatility in builds with 4/4 or even 4/3 weapons slots.
I had made a post about this quite awhile back, Undergunned Science Vessels, and was thouroughly naysayed and jaded forum membered. But i still agree some ships just need 4/4.
Especially the Intrepid and Nebula. The intrepid was supposed to be Hot S**t in its own right, and the Nebula is supposed to be a Galaxy variant. In the end i was dissapointed with the weapons setup on both, even more dissapointed than i was about the Boff layouts of the Galaxy and Excelsior.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Countless times where Voyager blew up Borg ships on their own, would seem to disagree with your statement.
Weapon slots should've always been determined by ships size, not ship "type". The larger the ship, the more power available, and the more weapons that can be fitted.
The Nebula Class is a science counterpart to the larger Galaxy Class. It should have largely the same features available to it, with more of a science inclination. It's smaller, more maneuverable, but overall it's more "Cruiser" than "Science". Same goes for the Intrepid. It was shown to be outfitted with the latest computer and warp technologies in the fleet, which makes it a perfect candidate for long range tactical assignments.
"Countless times where Voyager blew up Borg ships on their own, would seem to disagree with your statement." No, that phenomenon is called 'being a hero ship' or 'a ship powered by the limitless power of plot', with a hull comprised of unobtanium that magically restores itself after every episode. Using that to gauge how a ship would perform next to other ships in a 'realistic' situation is stupid. It's like how the Defiant was able to Hulk-smash JHASes and Galors left and right while other ships would be seemingly ripped apart.
I agree on the ship size bit. It's kinda how Starfleet Command 3 did things, and that game's customization was nice. Bigger, heavier ships could have more power, more weapons, but sacrificed a lot of maneuverability and speed. Sadly, that's not how STO is really balanced.
The Nebula does indeed come across as a cruiser variant rather than a 'science ship', and that's how Cryptic should've classified it.
Mostly agree.
Yes. The hero ship where OP, but in DS9 Admiral whasthisface had an Intrepid class as his Flagship. That should factor in. But there are little things from the ships normal design that where excluded, the better maneuverability from the engines and bioneural gel packs.
Im all for better hero class ships, the defiant, the galaxy and the intrepid. The fact that they have been made terribly sub-par is just shaming the ship class they came from. At the very least the ship should be a 4/3. Minimum firing on the show had at least that, and yes i went minimum i dont need ships with the 20 phaser banks they have in shows/movies.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah if you have plenty of time on your side..... (crack on the Miranda)
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The irony of your statement, is how the Defiant was built to fight Borg, and yet the first (and only) time they did, they got their collective asses handed to them. Yet as you say, during DS9 they blew up Dominion ships left and right without very much effort. I guess the Defiant wasn't the "Hero ship" in First Contact.
Either way, statements made regarding the Intrepid Class would seem to indicate that it was intended to be able to perform in a long range tactical role. The fact that Voyager left spacedock with a mere 38 photon torpedoes is beside the point (they were only gonna track down a rogue maquis ship in the badlands).
Where did you get that engineering played the biggest part?
QFT!
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=827481
That rule does not apply to ships like the Defiant which are build for more "oemph".
And by that definition anything >= the size of the Galaxy should have something like 5/5 or even 6/6.
If we take the VOY bridge crew into account:
Janeway: sci captain
Chakotay: tac Cmdr. Why?
Tuvok: tac Lt. Cmdr.
Paris: tac (?) Lt.
Torres: eng Lt.
Kim: eng ensign
* Note: I've left out Seven of Nine and Samantha Wildman (possible the only other starfleet officer we ever saw in an effective role during all eps) because the game supports only 5 boffs. But including them would be something like
Seven: uni something
Wildman: sci ensign
Now because the game doesn't support the captains role, lets relay Janeway role as science to Chakotay leaving us this:
Sci Cmdr.
Tac Lt. Cmdr.
Tac Lt.
Eng Lt.
Eng Ensign
That with a 4/3 weapons layout and possibly the secondary deflector dish (cruisers have had their cake in the last update as did escorts long time ago)
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=686171
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=607311
Ohh I can see that work..
Don't forget that those features are now "ancient", but maybe they could re-introduce something like this. Maybe a console only for the (Fleet) Intrepid family apart from the ablative armor (which sucks) and the Photonic Shockwave Torpedo (which also sucks).
Basically all those hero ships suffer the same problem in the first place, the 3rd useless ensign.
The Defiant comes out best in comparison due to the games need for DPS.
The Galaxy comes 2nd now because of the power boosts across the cruiser board. Though still miles behind the Defiant.
The Intrepid comes last because of the lack of firepower and the lack of skills to bring a cube (or any other PvE enemy for that matter) down to it's knees in a reasonable time.
For PvP I've very little experience but I've read some posts with builds that make the Intrepid a torp boat which can be reasonable but for somebody like me, who likes canon, that is not an alternative. And I'm sure many fans feel the same way.
Agreed.
And by comparison the Vesta and the Wells outperform the Fleet(!) Intrepid on any level in anything which is odd because for the fleet version costs alot more (T5 tac starbase and then some) then just the 2000 Zen Vesta or the "I'm lucky/125M EC" Wells.
Both are also available for my toons but they lack a certain fun factor that comes with the Intrepid.
never really saw him doing any thing tactical on the show his red uniform was more for the command branch
Uni Lt. then?
By your own definition, then the intrepid should be a 3/2, maybe 2/2. Since it is smaller than the 3/3 Excelsior,
Voyager's weapon fire was deadly not because it was a powerful warship but because its guns were accurate, dead accurate.
^^^ This. Seriously this, this guy knows what he's talking about.
If we go by canon, probably 90% of the Federation ships in game would be classified as cruisers. The likes of the Defiant and Olympic classes being the exception.
What Cryptic did is create arbitrary ship classes to support their basic game mechnaics. And they gave those ship classes arbitrary trademarks in order to work with the game mechanics they intended to have in STO. Such as the 3/3 layout plus integrated sensor analysis and subsystem targeting for science ships.
The question is - how do you give such a layout (4/4) to the Intrepid without doing the same for every science ship in game? And if you give every science ship such a layout, how will that work in the great scheme of things?
I don't think that the canon argument will hold much water, because the ship is already arbitrary locked into the science class, so it susceptible to those arbitrary mechanics. Quite similar to what we have in the Galaxy class thread actually.
I do think that the Intrepid should get a quality pass together with the Galaxy and the Defiant (although I'm not so sure about the Defiant, it might end being OP). Those are the 3 iconic Star Trek ships and all of them are suffering from aging and the changes to the gameplay made in STO since they were initially released.
The Defiant is a set of guns with an engine strapped to it. It's a minimalist design to be thrown into combat against long odds, and probably blown to bits in the process. It appparently has a giant warhead in its nose. The Defiant is a ship designed for a suicide mission. But "Designed To Fight The Borg" sounds a hell of a lot better than "Designed For A Suicide Mission".
The intrepid is designed as a long range science explorer. That means it's in the cruiser class, but it has more powerful sensors, great engines but not heavy shielding or weapons. So it'd be a light cruiser.
The galaxy is now a heavy cruiser with the sovereign playing battleship. Before the sovereign, it was a battleship. Galaxies were meant to play the explorer role, but serving as the Federation's first line of defence. It was the Federation's show of might on the edge of its space.
The Sovereign is a battleship, built in a time of war, meant to serve as a command warship on the front lines, a fleet flagship with an emphasis on firepower... a tank if you will.
The Nebula is a science ship, but with teeth. It's meant to explore, but not show the flag. It's a science ship meant for long range exploring, deep space, that sort of thing. To hold its own.
The Nova was meant for short science runs, it has no real weapons not expected to serve a combat role or long term, deep space missions.
So really, the intrepid was a lighter replacement, more advanced, to the Nebula. The Federation were building more and more bigger ships, then replaced it with a policy of more leaner ships, cheaper and easier to produce. The Sovereign is smaller than the Galaxy, but a hell of a lot more powerful. Less men, less resources. I'm actually curious, it's smaller, yes but is it longer?
i can see that seeing as he pretty much did every thing ont he show LOL
he was like an older less annoying wesley
1. Size
2. Armaments
3. Armour
4. speed/maneuverable.
The Galaxy was once a battleship, but now it's outclassed by the sovereign. I consider the sovereign a battleship, or rather a battlecruiser, which is lighter than a battleship. Battlecruisers are battleships that have more speed and agility than a battleship. The avenger is a battlecruiser. The upgraded galaxy-X is a dreadnaught.
Some people considered the defiant a battleship, because it was the federation's first warship... and it could inflict heavy damage. Once the Federation prepared for war, it was downgraded to corvette, which are meant to do a lot of damage and not take much but are nimble.
The problem is that the Federation's fleet was primary made up of cruisers. With the Excel being the Federation's first battleship built during the Klingon war, but still able to do science. The Defiant was the first pure warship. Now the excel is downgraded to a cruiser, same as the galaxy, age made it downgraded. The upgraded versions can be considered battleships
That was kind of my thought too. The Nebula was big, powerful and flexible. Kind of like its big sister, the galaxy. And as such, was a cruiser frame fitted primarily for research and exploration.
The Intrepid, on the other hand, is much like you said. Smaller, leaner, cheaper and fitted for the slowly rising tension of the times. It was for patrol and some research, but not really meant for long periods away from a port of call. Voyager's trek across the galaxy was an aberration. It proved that the design was much more durable than they expected (a sign that the builders and designers did their job well). I see it as being more of a Sci/Tac with Voyager's emphasis on engineering being a result necessity from the extenuating circumstances of needing to travel 70,000 light-years to return home.
To the point at hand, does Intrepid need an update? I say yes. And I like the idea of changing the ensign slot to a Universal slot.
And to your last question, yes, the Sovereign is shorter (30 decks to galaxy's 42) and smaller crew(700 or so to 1,200), but longer (700 to 650 meters).
this is from Memory Alpha on the defiant class:
The Defiant-class starship, officially an escort vessel, began development around 2367 as a small, highly-powered, heavily-armed warship intended to defend the United Federation of Planets against the Borg. The USS Defiant (NX-74205) was the first of what was to be a new Federation battle fleet. Starfleet abandoned the project when the Borg threat became less urgent; also, design flaws turned up, nearly destroying the Defiant during its initial shakedown cruise.
The Defiant prototype was pulled out of storage in 2371 when the Dominion threat emerged. After several upgrades by Deep Space 9 Operations Chief Miles O'Brien, the ship was deemed worthy of use and more ships of the class were constructed.
the Defiant is by no means considered cheap. It was designed so that in the event of a borg attack, the ship could put as much firepower down range as fast as possible (hence overgunned and overpowered), while being able to make as many runs as needed (hence its strong hull). The warhead in it's nose was most likely intended as a last ditch effort to stop the borg in case the ship took as much damage as it did in first contact (my proof: Defiant Helm Crewman: Main power is off-line, we've lost shields and our weapons are gone!
Lt. Commander Worf: [hits console] Perhaps today *is* a good day to die! Prepare for ramming speed! )
But I digress. As someone who flies sci, eng, and tac, yes the sci captains lose out on raw DPS, but their job isnt to blast the enemies to oblivion- their job is crowd control. Hence the gravity wells, tykens rifts, and every other sci ability. Why else would they have an ability that turns the opponents against each other?
Fixed some things for you there...