Compare 0 points to all 9 in both and they won't make up 40 power that I am aware of. Maybe 30, but again, you have to now consider the extra skill points spent as part of the disadvantage. Where did you pull them from?
I think its a fairly reasonable. IMO everything about the Romulans are designed around the optimisation of stealth and the punch that can provide.
Perhaps Romulan ships don't have the power levels of their counterparts, but do they honestly need it?
Their strength comes from dropping in and out of cloak at a moment's notice and having the offense to use it.
Singularity powers IMHO are geared to towards supporting the entry-and-exit of stealth.
The only Romulans I see failing are those that are trying to run beam-boat builds which require sustainability, and thats when the prophetic power you describe so well is most evident.
Yeah. I have the Valdore and Leech consoles, but do not use them most of the time. I find the unique playstyle entertaining. Those who max out power and all, especially in PvE, are making the game boring.
In PvP I prefer Romulans, because BC is essential when pugging against a premade.
First off, we said just warp core skills, not the four others as well, don't add up to 40.
Again, you miss the point. I already have 6 in each core skill and 3 in each individual power with my FED. I do not have but 3 in the crit skills, so I can't pull much from there.
You seem very averse to an actual fair comparison on this one point. A true comparison would have to have the exact same skills. You keep trying to show how to min/max with skills and OP consoles, that is another matter entirely.
The real issue is folks that stuck to FvF had little need to put in any effort into Stealth Detection and have little to no understanding of how little effort is required or simply do not want to put that effort in...
...if they were to look at it, they'd see how superior Perception is to Stealth these days because of all the complaints about not wanting to put effort in (like so much of the game, Cryptic caters to the lowest common denominator).
I respeced away form stealth detection because it was a waste. I haven't seen anything about it being fixed and would rather not put another zen payment in to test an unproven skill.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
Romulan ships have their place, but most Federation and Klingon ships are completely overshadowed by Lockbox ships -- ships that Romulans also have access to. Because of this, and because they have blatantly superior BOFFs, Romulans are overall more powerful in PvP.
I respeced away form stealth detection because it was a waste. I haven't seen anything about it being fixed and would rather not put another zen payment in to test an unproven skill.
Heh, I definitely get the last part (not about this in particular, but just the whole respec cost in STO - there's too many things that get fixed, get chnaged...kind of under the radar in many cases that will leave you high and dry)...
There have been a few bugs this year regarding it, eh?
There was the "No-Blip B'rel" stuff earlier in the year. They could do anything they could do which would normally cause them to blip (appear briefly) without blipping. On top of that, that insanely high stealth value would apply to everything - you couldn't see what was hitting you without looking in the log.
There was the "EPtA all the way to San Jose" where using EPtA gave you basically unlimited Perception...a simple misplacement in the formula and wowzers!
Even after that was fixed, you're still looking at pretty nifty boosts from EPtA in general.
They made a good change (imho) back in March to switch Sub on the Embassy BOFFs from a stacking +% to a non-stacking +#. The amount of +Stealth was over the top even after fixing the no-blip issue...
...and then they broke it at some point after LoR. It stacked again. It all stacked and we were back to the /facepalm Stealth Values. But as they fixed that, they went beyond that and nerfed it into the toilet so nothing stacked.
The thing with Sensors, though, is it's not just +Stealth Detection Rating. Yeah, most folks see that as the big part - main part, but it does other things. Sure, the Sci is more likely to run it because of what it does for Sensor Scan (not only improving the +StealthSight/Perception angle but also the Debuff)...but it still buffs FoMM for Tac, no? Then there's the simple resistance angle it has - it reduces the duration of Jam/Scramble/Placate stuff. With that right there, pretty much everybody's likely to be looking at having some points there anyway. Heck, I know with the way some folks chain SS/AMS out there - I wish some of my guys had a ton more Starship Sensors just for that.
Many of the things that can be done - don't require a change to the spec. In many cases, it's not efficient to make those changes anyway (the way that Aux works differently for Sci and non-Sci Vessels plays a role in that). But there are so many BOFF related things that can be done...
That other post may have come off harsher than intended, the gist of it is that folks really just don't like to adapt. Somebody that did FvF exclusively was likely min/maxed for that...but they still had options. They just didn't want to pursue that to deal with FvK. Now that FvF is the same way, well...they're still reluctant to change.
No doubt there's things that have been broken along the way...and...you can't change for that (you can try to change, but it's going to be somewhat wasted). I may come off as a Stealth Defender, but I was right there complaining with the various broken things throughout the year. I'm goofy, opinionated as Hell, but I still want (what's imho) a balanced game. That means I'll argue...discuss...things from both angles as things change.
Like most things, it's a Yo-Yo Pendulum sort of thing...Perception/Stealth...and it's swung back toward Perception's side again.
But outside of that, it's just a knowledge thing and a willingness to perhaps carry a spare BOFF or two to take advantage of what some abilities can do out there to rain all over that Cloaker's Parade. Sure, much of it is broken...but hey, this is STO...exploiting broken stuff since 2010, eh?
Romulan ships have their place, but most Federation and Klingon ships are completely overshadowed by Lockbox ships -- ships that Romulans also have access to. Because of this, and because they have blatantly superior BOFFs, Romulans are overall more powerful in PvP.
Still say Cryptic has a diabolical sense of humor...
Wells
Korath
R'Mor
Yep, because of the BOFFs...the R'Mor are more powerful than the Wells/Korath.
My roms dont have 40 less power since they specc'd into Warp Core Efficiency and Potential
All Roms have -40 less power before Warp Core bonuses kick in.
You have to compare equivalencies or you are comparing nothing at all.
At best, a Warbird can get = +12 to 2x Subsystems with FULL Sing Charge - and then not release that charge.
Sounds easy, but is not actually realistic, practical or easy.
A proper decloaking strike warbird isn't really in the fight long enough to consistently generate that power when you need it - i.e. firing on your opponent.
By the time a proper strike is done, and you either succeeded or failed, its generally time to escape for a second strike - at which point you want to dump your Sing charge to not incur a -stealth penalty.
So this means that M/AM core ships with their lower but less fluctuating Elite Core bonuses always have a better power advantage (and even with maxxed out sing charges, M/AM cores have higher power)
I'm not going to go into all of the optimization options for power - but unless you are running 125 x 2 and 135 x 2 - More is always more when it comes to power benefits - especially Aux power for healers.
I love my Romulans, I play them almost exclusively now. I've abandoned Fed Tacs/Sci (multiple) with JHAS, JHHEC, DKora, Orb Weaver, Mobius - I didn't abandon them for Singularity powers or Singularity cores, because thats one of the mechanics that is actually relatively balanced all things considered.
It might seem overpowered due to all of the other advantages they have but the actual mechanics vs. M/AM cores are in line imo.
Sounds easy, but is not actually realistic, practical or easy.
Have you noticed a massive increase in Singularity Charge gain after the last, no wait - er - the patch before last...?
What used to take a wee bit of time is happening whambam now. Not sure if they fixed something that was off with [SingA] or with the Singularity Specialist Trait...but gain seems way faster than it was.
As far as ships I'd put Rommy Fleet & high end C store ships w/Lotto ships, Rommy Mirror (I really do like the Mirror Sci) w/Fed Cstore and/or Fleet, last KDF.
Doffs can change some of this depending on Boff layout.
Rommy Boffs are better, though not sure if they fixed the Nausican and don't want to sell Human boffs short either as far as anti some CC.
But, I think it takes a player whose playstyle fits w/utilizing BC and Singularity Powers.
For example, depending on the build I could use 4 of 5. The plasma shockwave for extra damage or the overcharge to finish a target, jump for escape or positioning, the yoyo spike repair/drain, or even the clone to create FaW targets to reduce dps.
The multiple escapes allow for fading from a fight then re-engaging after cloaking for initiative/damage bonus. For example 2x singularity jumps, 1x jump consoles, 1x evasives is 4 escapes to avoid damage/cc or better position for offensive runs. This can help slower ships avoid or stay on faster ships as well.
There's more complexity to them, but Rommy ships are better when run well.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
The real issue is folks that stuck to FvF had little need to put in any effort into Stealth Detection and have little to no understanding of how little effort is required or simply do not want to put that effort in...
...if they were to look at it, they'd see how superior Perception is to Stealth these days because of all the complaints about not wanting to put effort in (like so much of the game, Cryptic caters to the lowest common denominator).
*shrug* fighting a team made up of mostly rogues is more annoying than exciting in most other games, STO is no different. If people can avoid them, they do.
I agree with the poster that said that Roms HAD to be OP, or there would not have been enough sales. What I have to ask then is WHY did Cryptic decide to go with roms at all then? They are clearly a generic Rebel Alliance shoehorned in as a cash grab. Some folks liked it and I can accept that, but by and large players just roll their eyes, shake their heads and look at their crit bonus, knowing full well they would't be there if not for the extra bonuses at no cost.
What can Cryptic do now? Mostly nothing. At least nothing they'd actually consider doing so that's that. I notice they have also used them as a convenient glue, holding things together so we can all be one big happy family in the sphere.... why did we need the voth at all? It could easily be a fed/kdf/rom 3 way fight over the Omega Mcguffins.
not without rom boffs.
with cloned defence specking and gear setup, rom ships take more damage than fed/kdf ships from the same content. though kdf ships (bops)seem to have less hull, for no good reason.
damnit! i want a k'vort sized k'vort with the stats a k'vort sized k'vort should have.
not a norgh sized b'rel with a shuttle hull.:rolleyes:
There IS a reason, they can battlecloak! Back in the day Cryptic at least tried to be balanced. BOPs paid a heavy price for their advantages, but those advantages were the defining aspect of the BOPs. Sadly those days are long past and will not come again. Looking at the KDF and fed fleet lineups, its like watching the past.... The comparison someone wrote up, comparing the T'Varo with the BOP and the Patrol Escort... it made me sad.
*shrug* fighting a team made up of mostly rogues is more annoying than exciting in most other games, STO is no different. If people can avoid them, they do.
Which is kind of the thing...they could before, with it being a case of sticking to FvF and avoiding FvK. So it would be a "waste" to do certain things if you're never going to see it. With the Roms, though, it's no longer something that's so easily avoided. Thus it's no longer a "waste"...rather it's a refusal to adapt.
No doubt there are varied preferences out there, and it's not a case of discounting them..it's just a case of the Stealth aspect's been nerfed into the toilet in comparison to the Perception angle being buffed.
Note, that's a distinct item - separate from the additional Stealth related advantages that Roms continue to hold over their KDF counterparts. But somebody that partook in FvK would have a much easier time trying to adapt to deal with that...than somebody that's completely avoided it. But again, folks have their preferences.
Could simply be a case of being tired from years of the complaints in Ker'rat about it - having danced on both sides as the Snooper and Sneaker...and just feeling that many folks haven't even bothered to look at what could be done. If folks don't want to bother, then they should have avoided places like Ker'rat and FvK. I'd think they'd be faced with little choice now...but I underestimated the desire to complain rather than adapt.
(Heh, I like to complain all the time mind you - but I prefer to complain after testing things and seeing that they may not be working as intended or asking what other folks think...rather than just the typical "X killed me" or "why didn't X kill them" sort of things.)
Heck, I just complained in my own passive aggressive way about the Ar'Kif BOFF layout...by asking for folks opinions on what could be done. How's asking for help like that complaining? Well, for me...I know that it is a complaint with some acceptance...meh, I hate the layout - but hey, what can be done?
IMHO, folks need to do that with Stealth Detection.
Cause then they could focus more of their attention on all the other TRIBBLE that's wrong with Roms.
There IS a reason, they can battlecloak! Back in the day Cryptic at least tried to be balanced. BOPs paid a heavy price for their advantages, but those advantages were the defining aspect of the BOPs. Sadly those days are long past and will not come again. Looking at the KDF and fed fleet lineups, its like watching the past.... The comparison someone wrote up, comparing the T'Varo with the BOP and the Patrol Escort... it made me sad.
In a twisted sense, I think that reason still applies to the Warbirds. I think they actually did reduce things to take into account the Battlecloaks and that if they hadn't, lol - things would be a lot worse.
Heh, the T'varo vs. Patrol...I forgot to do the Ha'feh vs. Patrol. Just the regular RA versions...the Ha'feh is a Patrol with a BC. Okay, it has -20 Inertia, Singularity Abilities, reduced Subsystem Power. Otherwise though...it's copypasta.
In a twisted sense, I think that reason still applies to the Warbirds. I think they actually did reduce things to take into account the Battlecloaks and that if they hadn't, lol - things would be a lot worse.
Heh, the T'varo vs. Patrol...I forgot to do the Ha'feh vs. Patrol. Just the regular RA versions...the Ha'feh is a Patrol with a BC. Okay, it has -20 Inertia, Singularity Abilities, reduced Subsystem Power. Otherwise though...it's copypasta.
Meh, I think i'll go throw some more money at Roberts site. Even if it all ends up crashing and burning i'd get more satisfaction than spending it on STO.
Man... when WAS the last time I spent cash on STO? Or Champions Online? lol
In a twisted sense, I think that reason still applies to the Warbirds. I think they actually did reduce things to take into account the Battlecloaks and that if they hadn't, lol - things would be a lot worse.
Heh, the T'varo vs. Patrol...I forgot to do the Ha'feh vs. Patrol. Just the regular RA versions...the Ha'feh is a Patrol with a BC. Okay, it has -20 Inertia, Singularity Abilities, reduced Subsystem Power. Otherwise though...it's copypasta.
You dont compare the tvaro to the partol, you have to compare it to the bop since its a EBC ship. The Hafeh would be what you compare to the Patrol/Tactical
The Rommies are just a way to get battlecloaks into the hands of the Feddies...period.
A crutch?
More like one big dropbox of everything that made the KDF unique.
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
1. Who benefits the most from power creep? A Fed, a KDF, or a Romulan toon? Whatever you answer, is probably right.
Some folks have said that the -40 power is balanced relative to singularity powers, and Sing. cores don't give as much power, etc etc. And that's fine, I can see that POV, but don't agree honestly; agree to disagree in this case*. I say that, because I think that eventually we'll see a power creep boost that helps eliminate that, and maybe some other stuff as well. Probably not soon, maybe not even in an obvious manner, but eventually.
2. Some of the Romulan imbalance honestly comes from Fed and KDF stuff.
Think about it a bit. IF Romulans were a proper 3rd faction, they wouldn't have access to some of the stuff that makes them such an issue. That means no faction-specific fleet gear, no access to tier 1-4 C-store ship consoles, no Fed/KDF DOFFs (so no AP ones, no Technicians, no Marion, nothing like that), and so on.
If they had only their own stuff, some of the issues might dry up rather fast. Some fleet gear (like the Advanced level stuff) and all the Rep stuff are universal (so they'd still have access to stuff like the KCB), and thus it wouldn't be perfect.
I know that sounds a bit overly harsh to say, but it is true. Some of the issue does come from the very stuff we've gotten used to over time, for good or for ill. If they had mostly their own BOFFs, own DOFFs, own unique gear outside of universal stuff, I think things might be a lot better.
*and I occasionally make threads like this, to generate discussion, because I enjoy that and like seeing POVs, even if I disagree heavily with them. Heck, awhile back I even made a thread about Romulans being 'balanced'.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Have you noticed a massive increase in Singularity Charge gain after the last, no wait - er - the patch before last...?
What used to take a wee bit of time is happening whambam now. Not sure if they fixed something that was off with [SingA] or with the Singularity Specialist Trait...but gain seems way faster than it was.
I haven't noticed, but I wasn't particularly looking either.
You dont compare the tvaro to the partol, you have to compare it to the bop since its a EBC ship. The Hafeh would be what you compare to the Patrol/Tactical
While I think BoPs are in need of a balance pass, it's very likely that the high price paid by BoPs are not just for Battle Cloaks, but also the full universal BOFF layout.
It doesn't matter what you, or I or any player thinks the value of a full Uni layout is - in a developer's mind that's an advantage that requires a cost.
It allows for BOFF layouts that even if impractical, are basically impossible on any other ship.
Which Warbird with 4 fore slots has a universal choice of commander station?
1. Who benefits the most from power creep? A Fed, a KDF, or a Romulan toon? Whatever you answer, is probably right.
Silly question, Cryptic.
Don't think I really answered the OP too much but I think it's the other way round to be honest.
Feds and KDF are crutches for Roms. I mean think about, seriously, go all the way back to LoR launch and think. Take away all the fed stuff, the KDF stuff and have roms on their own with only their boffs, doffs and ships and the other factions kept separated by a wall of tigers on fire, with lasers on their head.
What do you have? It's a faction that is even more lack lustre than the KDF are. There's just no way they could flesh out the Romulan faction in time for release, nor would it be a good return on investment especially if it was a flop. We might even have seen the end of STO had it been a flop.
Thinking about my current romulan and her ship and stuff what do I have? I have a rom ship, rom/fleet consoles, the doffs are pretty standard doffs for all factions so I have no doubt if rooms were separated I would have the equivilant. Just about the only fed console I have is the leech which is available to all pretty much. To be honest I am thinking of replacing it too for some kind of other console, can't remember which but yeah think its a universal.
Oh yeah and fleet shields with rom boffs. Almost nothing I use is fed or KDF specific but a lot of it is rep specific which we would get for roms.
So what's the point of saying the first part? Well a lot of the stuff I used for levelling was fed and a lot of stuff I used for the interim was fed. Got my fair share of fed Zen ships and consoles and a lot of bonus stuff which really helped flesh out the faction and give me options even if I didn't use them. That alone made the faction feel more like a faction than what the p**s poor excuse we had for KDF is and still have.
this was obvious the moment loR hit the holodeck, why are we still debating this? everyone had plenty of time to level/rep new rmulans
Everyone who still thinks this unbalance and powercreep doesnt continue with the next seasons dont have the ability to adapt to the pvp in this game imo.
aka, everybody should play a romulan and nothing else. Thanks! :rolleyes:
Well, much like anything - folks are at different skill levels. Some of them are at sufficiently different skill levels that that the difference between them allows them a vast amount of gearing choices that the others may not have...
So not everybody needs to play a Rom - many can carry on playing whatever and still rock the world of those new Roms. The average skill level of the game continues to drop...so the more skilled should be fine.
Heh, and should anybody consider that to be ego on my part...lol...folks should note that my main went Rom with LoR. I suck, I scrambled for that crutch! :P
I was bored, but took a short break after rage quitting from the rep stuff. Quite enjoy the Voth ground stuff, especially when you do it with some fleet mates, much more fun.
This game is much more endurable when you have a good bunch of people to play with, shame about the rest of the game
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Comments
Yeah. I have the Valdore and Leech consoles, but do not use them most of the time. I find the unique playstyle entertaining. Those who max out power and all, especially in PvE, are making the game boring.
In PvP I prefer Romulans, because BC is essential when pugging against a premade.
First off, we said just warp core skills, not the four others as well, don't add up to 40.
Again, you miss the point. I already have 6 in each core skill and 3 in each individual power with my FED. I do not have but 3 in the crit skills, so I can't pull much from there.
You seem very averse to an actual fair comparison on this one point. A true comparison would have to have the exact same skills. You keep trying to show how to min/max with skills and OP consoles, that is another matter entirely.
I respeced away form stealth detection because it was a waste. I haven't seen anything about it being fixed and would rather not put another zen payment in to test an unproven skill.
Its only hard to overcome the power if you think Romulans should not have any penalty at all.
Heh, I definitely get the last part (not about this in particular, but just the whole respec cost in STO - there's too many things that get fixed, get chnaged...kind of under the radar in many cases that will leave you high and dry)...
There have been a few bugs this year regarding it, eh?
There was the "No-Blip B'rel" stuff earlier in the year. They could do anything they could do which would normally cause them to blip (appear briefly) without blipping. On top of that, that insanely high stealth value would apply to everything - you couldn't see what was hitting you without looking in the log.
There was the "EPtA all the way to San Jose" where using EPtA gave you basically unlimited Perception...a simple misplacement in the formula and wowzers!
Even after that was fixed, you're still looking at pretty nifty boosts from EPtA in general.
They made a good change (imho) back in March to switch Sub on the Embassy BOFFs from a stacking +% to a non-stacking +#. The amount of +Stealth was over the top even after fixing the no-blip issue...
...and then they broke it at some point after LoR. It stacked again. It all stacked and we were back to the /facepalm Stealth Values. But as they fixed that, they went beyond that and nerfed it into the toilet so nothing stacked.
The thing with Sensors, though, is it's not just +Stealth Detection Rating. Yeah, most folks see that as the big part - main part, but it does other things. Sure, the Sci is more likely to run it because of what it does for Sensor Scan (not only improving the +StealthSight/Perception angle but also the Debuff)...but it still buffs FoMM for Tac, no? Then there's the simple resistance angle it has - it reduces the duration of Jam/Scramble/Placate stuff. With that right there, pretty much everybody's likely to be looking at having some points there anyway. Heck, I know with the way some folks chain SS/AMS out there - I wish some of my guys had a ton more Starship Sensors just for that.
Many of the things that can be done - don't require a change to the spec. In many cases, it's not efficient to make those changes anyway (the way that Aux works differently for Sci and non-Sci Vessels plays a role in that). But there are so many BOFF related things that can be done...
That other post may have come off harsher than intended, the gist of it is that folks really just don't like to adapt. Somebody that did FvF exclusively was likely min/maxed for that...but they still had options. They just didn't want to pursue that to deal with FvK. Now that FvF is the same way, well...they're still reluctant to change.
No doubt there's things that have been broken along the way...and...you can't change for that (you can try to change, but it's going to be somewhat wasted). I may come off as a Stealth Defender, but I was right there complaining with the various broken things throughout the year. I'm goofy, opinionated as Hell, but I still want (what's imho) a balanced game. That means I'll argue...discuss...things from both angles as things change.
Like most things, it's a Yo-Yo Pendulum sort of thing...Perception/Stealth...and it's swung back toward Perception's side again.
But outside of that, it's just a knowledge thing and a willingness to perhaps carry a spare BOFF or two to take advantage of what some abilities can do out there to rain all over that Cloaker's Parade. Sure, much of it is broken...but hey, this is STO...exploiting broken stuff since 2010, eh?
Still say Cryptic has a diabolical sense of humor...
Wells
Korath
R'Mor
Yep, because of the BOFFs...the R'Mor are more powerful than the Wells/Korath.
All Roms have -40 less power before Warp Core bonuses kick in.
You have to compare equivalencies or you are comparing nothing at all.
At best, a Warbird can get = +12 to 2x Subsystems with FULL Sing Charge - and then not release that charge.
Sounds easy, but is not actually realistic, practical or easy.
A proper decloaking strike warbird isn't really in the fight long enough to consistently generate that power when you need it - i.e. firing on your opponent.
By the time a proper strike is done, and you either succeeded or failed, its generally time to escape for a second strike - at which point you want to dump your Sing charge to not incur a -stealth penalty.
So this means that M/AM core ships with their lower but less fluctuating Elite Core bonuses always have a better power advantage (and even with maxxed out sing charges, M/AM cores have higher power)
I'm not going to go into all of the optimization options for power - but unless you are running 125 x 2 and 135 x 2 - More is always more when it comes to power benefits - especially Aux power for healers.
I love my Romulans, I play them almost exclusively now. I've abandoned Fed Tacs/Sci (multiple) with JHAS, JHHEC, DKora, Orb Weaver, Mobius - I didn't abandon them for Singularity powers or Singularity cores, because thats one of the mechanics that is actually relatively balanced all things considered.
It might seem overpowered due to all of the other advantages they have but the actual mechanics vs. M/AM cores are in line imo.
You always need more as an optimizer.
You are always squeezing for more power, with potential 4x AMP subsystem +damage benefits.
You always want more shield power for resistance and regen, and more aux for stealth and heals, and powerful tractor beams.
You always want more Engine power for flight speed to escape.
When it comes to power, more is always more, unless you are totally capped across the board.
Have you noticed a massive increase in Singularity Charge gain after the last, no wait - er - the patch before last...?
What used to take a wee bit of time is happening whambam now. Not sure if they fixed something that was off with [SingA] or with the Singularity Specialist Trait...but gain seems way faster than it was.
Doffs can change some of this depending on Boff layout.
Rommy Boffs are better, though not sure if they fixed the Nausican and don't want to sell Human boffs short either as far as anti some CC.
But, I think it takes a player whose playstyle fits w/utilizing BC and Singularity Powers.
For example, depending on the build I could use 4 of 5. The plasma shockwave for extra damage or the overcharge to finish a target, jump for escape or positioning, the yoyo spike repair/drain, or even the clone to create FaW targets to reduce dps.
The multiple escapes allow for fading from a fight then re-engaging after cloaking for initiative/damage bonus. For example 2x singularity jumps, 1x jump consoles, 1x evasives is 4 escapes to avoid damage/cc or better position for offensive runs. This can help slower ships avoid or stay on faster ships as well.
There's more complexity to them, but Rommy ships are better when run well.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
*shrug* fighting a team made up of mostly rogues is more annoying than exciting in most other games, STO is no different. If people can avoid them, they do.
I agree with the poster that said that Roms HAD to be OP, or there would not have been enough sales. What I have to ask then is WHY did Cryptic decide to go with roms at all then? They are clearly a generic Rebel Alliance shoehorned in as a cash grab. Some folks liked it and I can accept that, but by and large players just roll their eyes, shake their heads and look at their crit bonus, knowing full well they would't be there if not for the extra bonuses at no cost.
What can Cryptic do now? Mostly nothing. At least nothing they'd actually consider doing so that's that. I notice they have also used them as a convenient glue, holding things together so we can all be one big happy family in the sphere.... why did we need the voth at all? It could easily be a fed/kdf/rom 3 way fight over the Omega Mcguffins.
There IS a reason, they can battlecloak! Back in the day Cryptic at least tried to be balanced. BOPs paid a heavy price for their advantages, but those advantages were the defining aspect of the BOPs. Sadly those days are long past and will not come again. Looking at the KDF and fed fleet lineups, its like watching the past.... The comparison someone wrote up, comparing the T'Varo with the BOP and the Patrol Escort... it made me sad.
Which is kind of the thing...they could before, with it being a case of sticking to FvF and avoiding FvK. So it would be a "waste" to do certain things if you're never going to see it. With the Roms, though, it's no longer something that's so easily avoided. Thus it's no longer a "waste"...rather it's a refusal to adapt.
No doubt there are varied preferences out there, and it's not a case of discounting them..it's just a case of the Stealth aspect's been nerfed into the toilet in comparison to the Perception angle being buffed.
Note, that's a distinct item - separate from the additional Stealth related advantages that Roms continue to hold over their KDF counterparts. But somebody that partook in FvK would have a much easier time trying to adapt to deal with that...than somebody that's completely avoided it. But again, folks have their preferences.
Could simply be a case of being tired from years of the complaints in Ker'rat about it - having danced on both sides as the Snooper and Sneaker...and just feeling that many folks haven't even bothered to look at what could be done. If folks don't want to bother, then they should have avoided places like Ker'rat and FvK. I'd think they'd be faced with little choice now...but I underestimated the desire to complain rather than adapt.
(Heh, I like to complain all the time mind you - but I prefer to complain after testing things and seeing that they may not be working as intended or asking what other folks think...rather than just the typical "X killed me" or "why didn't X kill them" sort of things.)
Heck, I just complained in my own passive aggressive way about the Ar'Kif BOFF layout...by asking for folks opinions on what could be done. How's asking for help like that complaining? Well, for me...I know that it is a complaint with some acceptance...meh, I hate the layout - but hey, what can be done?
IMHO, folks need to do that with Stealth Detection.
Cause then they could focus more of their attention on all the other TRIBBLE that's wrong with Roms.
In a twisted sense, I think that reason still applies to the Warbirds. I think they actually did reduce things to take into account the Battlecloaks and that if they hadn't, lol - things would be a lot worse.
Heh, the T'varo vs. Patrol...I forgot to do the Ha'feh vs. Patrol. Just the regular RA versions...the Ha'feh is a Patrol with a BC. Okay, it has -20 Inertia, Singularity Abilities, reduced Subsystem Power. Otherwise though...it's copypasta.
Meh, I think i'll go throw some more money at Roberts site. Even if it all ends up crashing and burning i'd get more satisfaction than spending it on STO.
Man... when WAS the last time I spent cash on STO? Or Champions Online? lol
You dont compare the tvaro to the partol, you have to compare it to the bop since its a EBC ship. The Hafeh would be what you compare to the Patrol/Tactical
Tvaro - Bop
Hafeh - Tactical/Patrol
Dhelan - Advanced
Mogai - Steamrunner/Mobius
If you compare that way, you see that in every instance the romulan stats are either superior or even.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
The Rommies are just a way to get battlecloaks into the hands of the Feddies...period.
A crutch?
More like one big dropbox of everything that made the KDF unique.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
1. Who benefits the most from power creep? A Fed, a KDF, or a Romulan toon? Whatever you answer, is probably right.
Some folks have said that the -40 power is balanced relative to singularity powers, and Sing. cores don't give as much power, etc etc. And that's fine, I can see that POV, but don't agree honestly; agree to disagree in this case*. I say that, because I think that eventually we'll see a power creep boost that helps eliminate that, and maybe some other stuff as well. Probably not soon, maybe not even in an obvious manner, but eventually.
2. Some of the Romulan imbalance honestly comes from Fed and KDF stuff.
Think about it a bit. IF Romulans were a proper 3rd faction, they wouldn't have access to some of the stuff that makes them such an issue. That means no faction-specific fleet gear, no access to tier 1-4 C-store ship consoles, no Fed/KDF DOFFs (so no AP ones, no Technicians, no Marion, nothing like that), and so on.
If they had only their own stuff, some of the issues might dry up rather fast. Some fleet gear (like the Advanced level stuff) and all the Rep stuff are universal (so they'd still have access to stuff like the KCB), and thus it wouldn't be perfect.
I know that sounds a bit overly harsh to say, but it is true. Some of the issue does come from the very stuff we've gotten used to over time, for good or for ill. If they had mostly their own BOFFs, own DOFFs, own unique gear outside of universal stuff, I think things might be a lot better.
*and I occasionally make threads like this, to generate discussion, because I enjoy that and like seeing POVs, even if I disagree heavily with them. Heck, awhile back I even made a thread about Romulans being 'balanced'.
I haven't noticed, but I wasn't particularly looking either.
I'll give it a look over next time I'm in game.
While I think BoPs are in need of a balance pass, it's very likely that the high price paid by BoPs are not just for Battle Cloaks, but also the full universal BOFF layout.
It doesn't matter what you, or I or any player thinks the value of a full Uni layout is - in a developer's mind that's an advantage that requires a cost.
It allows for BOFF layouts that even if impractical, are basically impossible on any other ship.
Which Warbird with 4 fore slots has a universal choice of commander station?
None of them.
D) None of the above. Min/max optimizers like me benefit the most. :P
Silly question, Cryptic.
Don't think I really answered the OP too much but I think it's the other way round to be honest.
Feds and KDF are crutches for Roms. I mean think about, seriously, go all the way back to LoR launch and think. Take away all the fed stuff, the KDF stuff and have roms on their own with only their boffs, doffs and ships and the other factions kept separated by a wall of tigers on fire, with lasers on their head.
What do you have? It's a faction that is even more lack lustre than the KDF are. There's just no way they could flesh out the Romulan faction in time for release, nor would it be a good return on investment especially if it was a flop. We might even have seen the end of STO had it been a flop.
Thinking about my current romulan and her ship and stuff what do I have? I have a rom ship, rom/fleet consoles, the doffs are pretty standard doffs for all factions so I have no doubt if rooms were separated I would have the equivilant. Just about the only fed console I have is the leech which is available to all pretty much. To be honest I am thinking of replacing it too for some kind of other console, can't remember which but yeah think its a universal.
Oh yeah and fleet shields with rom boffs. Almost nothing I use is fed or KDF specific but a lot of it is rep specific which we would get for roms.
So what's the point of saying the first part? Well a lot of the stuff I used for levelling was fed and a lot of stuff I used for the interim was fed. Got my fair share of fed Zen ships and consoles and a lot of bonus stuff which really helped flesh out the faction and give me options even if I didn't use them. That alone made the faction feel more like a faction than what the p**s poor excuse we had for KDF is and still have.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Everyone who still thinks this unbalance and powercreep doesnt continue with the next seasons dont have the ability to adapt to the pvp in this game imo.
acceptance as captain horizon would say
Thanks mate - true. I guess I missed that class
aka, everybody should play a romulan and nothing else. Thanks! :rolleyes:
Elite Defense Stovokor
Yeah, can you believe it Pokey? Some people have only just realised how powerful Romulans can be especially if you previously used KDF =P
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Well, much like anything - folks are at different skill levels. Some of them are at sufficiently different skill levels that that the difference between them allows them a vast amount of gearing choices that the others may not have...
So not everybody needs to play a Rom - many can carry on playing whatever and still rock the world of those new Roms. The average skill level of the game continues to drop...so the more skilled should be fine.
Heh, and should anybody consider that to be ego on my part...lol...folks should note that my main went Rom with LoR. I suck, I scrambled for that crutch! :P
You people just wont stop until you have it all.
Federation has overpowered cruisers, and ROM have +10% DPS which i have to pay 50 mil EC on warbird for a loss of cruiser commands and 40 power.
My romulan is not even romulan, he is mostly fed character if i play FED-ROM.
You say access to ship gear - yes, low-level ships, and FED gear because ROM doesn't even have it own gear, butt the allied gear.
I was bored, but took a short break after rage quitting from the rep stuff. Quite enjoy the Voth ground stuff, especially when you do it with some fleet mates, much more fun.
This game is much more endurable when you have a good bunch of people to play with, shame about the rest of the game
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)