Nah, Aux2Batt will reduce your cooldown even if it is at 1 second, to make a rule to the effect of "If cooldown less than global, no reduction, reduction" would have my support and might just help...
Well thats a glaring issue then. All reductions should stop at the global. Seems that would lessen the OP issues of near constant uptimes on powers.
Aux to battery DOES NOT REDUCE COOLDOWNS PAST GLOBAL.
The skill may technically be "reduced" but you are still prevented by the global cooldown. Anyone that thinks otherwise is clearly not playing the same game we are and making stuff up.
So please stop spreading these moronic unfounded and untrue lies.
I am sorry, but that is incorrect. A2B will reduce your cooldown regardless of the time remaining, as long as enough time has elapsed since activation to allow for the global cooldown.
If GCD is 30 seconds and base is 45 seconds:
A2B one can take it from 45 to ~32 instantly
A2B 2 10 seconds later will take it from 22 to ~18 or 19, depending on activation.
After 18 seconds, you reset the ability, 30 seconds having elapsed.
What you are seeing is a power with 15s GCD:
A2B 1 takes it from 30 to 21
A2B 2 takes it from 11 to ~4
If you miss a cycle of A2B, you may see it go from 8 to 0, with 22 seconds elapsed. Your actual CD is 22 seconds, not 8 seconds.
Otherwise, EPTX would keep stacking and you could run 4 copies of EPTS and have essentially infinite resists, or EPTW and have TRIBBLE damage. I use both EPTs with A2B, and this does not happen. The 30 second GCD DOES HOLD.
Get an ability like DEM which has a 45s global cool down and test A2B with that or rotate shield polarity. You will see that it gets locked at the global even though you can and will have used A2B several times while it's ticking down on the global.
The GCD is absolute and inviolable. Anyone who says otherwise is spreading misinformation based on their inability to understand what they are seeing. Or is lying because they have an irrational dislike of a doff proc. But that'd be silly.
In the example of DEM skill, running 3 Doffs and 2xA2B, it is true that DEM cannot break cannot save more break it beyond 45 seconds.
First DEM + A2B = 1:02 seconds on cooldown
Second A2B @ 52 seconds = 32 seconds on cooldown
First A2B skill again @ 24 seconds = 21ish seconds on cooldown.
What it does give access to is the ability to run one powerful skill and give it a cool down like there were two of them. That IS working as intended folks.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Um, yeah it does. Do I really need to go make a youtube video of this? A2B will reduce the time of a skill that is already under it's global cooldown. So if you had 13 secs left on a skill, using A2B w/Doffs would change the cooldown left to 8 secs.
So if you ran one copy of say FAW3, but run two A2B w/Doffs, one FAW3 has the global cooldown of running two and that is fine. The part that breaks the global cooldown is when you use that second A2B skill, as it will reduce the time left on that one copy of FAW3 again, shaving even more time off the cool down.
That is just a fact and the only real game breaker I think people have a right to complain about.
Yes please make a video because it only happens to you
Yes please make a video because it only happens to you
I already adjust the post while you were making yours. Might want to adjust your post bud.
I had to double check the math on DEM and test it against other skills. Nothing breaks the global cooldown, you just can't see it unless you sit and do the math.
Set a stop watch to 45 secs and run DEM3 with 2xA2B w/Doffs and you will be able to use DEM as soon as watch hits zero and that is with pressing the A2B skills every time them cycle up.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
It kind of ticks me off since I have used a2b builds ever since a2b was removed from the shared cd with eptx, about a year ago I think. My Scimitar used a2b since the first day the Scimitar came out, now I hardly use those builds now because everyone else is.
Or about the people who spam endless cheese and doff-boosted Sensor Scrambles and Grav Wells until you are flailing around toothless and defenceless?
.
I'm one of the main ones doing this in Kerrat in a sci brel due to fustration over all the new people copying a2b builds I have used for almost a year, and due to not wanting to use my a2b build there anymore when everyone else is.
I just played a team that was entirely Aux2Batt BFAW.
Watching them play I have to say that it was the most boring, uninspiring match ever. They circle. That's it. No flair. No pizazz. Quite frankly, no skill. You could lose 8 of your fingers in a cooking accident and still play an Aux2Batt BFAW ship effectively.
Honestly, A2B used to not be an 'issue' except for the occasional gripe once in awhile way back when.
It used to be used on one group of ships:
Cruisers/battlecruisers
It did indeed change the game somewhat, but only to help cruisers out in a time when most people really did dismiss them most of the time, and the game was fully into 'Escorts Online' mindset.
Two things have brought it to the 'bad' thing so many seem to think it is now:
1. Power creep (fleet stuff, cruiser commands, new reps, new gear, etc)
2. Hybrid ships (basically more and more ships that are hybrids of various types, allowing A2B to flourish)
I didn't say Romulans, because in a way, they apply for both.
Anyways, those two things have brought it to where it is today. In particular for hybrid ships. For awhile, cruisers were about all you could use it on. A couple lockbox ships, sure, but nothing really erroneous. There were the vet ships as well, similar to the now very popular Scimitar, but few people had Vet ships, and few of those used it, let alone even choosing to use A2B on it in the first place.
Power creep stuff has removed much of the weaknesses of the build. Lots of extra passive healing, everyone getting Plasmonic Leech, all the new rep passives, fancy new fleet consoles, shiny DOFFs, and so on.
So something that was once relatively balanced and designed for a certain group of ships, has been beefed up and butchered over the months due to those primary reasons to the point that there's such an A2B mentality, both those who use it, and even those who don't like it.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
A2B is not cheating. It has a few glaring weaknesses:
1. Your Aux is almost always at 5. This means that anyone using drain weapons has a significant chance of taking it down entirely. This stops a lot of heals and abilities in their tracks.
2. It locks you into an exploitable loop of BOFF abilities which are very easy to anticipate and counter. If they see A2B activated, they know exactly when you do everything unless you don't use a power at all.
3. You lose 2 LT level engineering abilities. This can mean a lot when you are flying something slow and heavy. You could have used A2D to improve your manoeuvrability, or A2S as a hull heal. You still only need 1 copy of EPTS3 and/or EPTW3, as even 3 blue engineer doffs gives you a 90% chance to proc to global for EACH USE OF ONE ABILITY. THis means that cycling 2 EPTx powers gives you a 99% chance to proc at least one, affecting both abilities. 3 purple doffs makes this happen 100% of the time.
The ONLY real use of A2B is to let you use more tac powers on a cruiser, or to not have to go C+LTC Tac on a scimitar. It is not an "I win" button. It might give you 20% more DPS by letting you use another copy of FAW and APB1, or 30% more by letting you use FAW3, APB3 and TT2 on a scimitar. However, you never break globals and weapon overcapping does not change that much.
BFAW doubling proc chances is a bigger issue then A2B ever was.
how refreshing to see someone who knows what they are talking about. this is typically what i have to spell out, im glad someone else saved me some time
october 2012 was when 2 AtB builds became possible. i remember was that it was the same day the vet ships launched, and ive used it and talked about it since then. took almost 6 months for what ive been running to become this FOTM it is now.
its still just a way for something that has a lot of eng to use it to get more tactical, at the expense of aux. the ships that have the largest increase in performance from it are still cruisers with a LTC and COM eng, cruisers with more diverse setups get less out of it, some are even better off without it.
a couple escorts and destroyers benefit from it, being able to have a COM tac and run 2 copies of AtB is definitely a treat. those ships tend to have sub par turn rates though and need it to be at all competitive against the best actual escorts.
i think its funny when people think AtB cruisers are some invincible thing, thats truly hilarious. if they got rid of AtB, most of those cruisers would see thier DPS drop at least in half wile their tanking would at least double. you get use of AtS and AtD back, actual STRONG aux healing, even room to double up RSP if you like. you think they are hard to kill now, no they are just well flown. try shooting through an actual healer build, and see how soft an AtB cruiser is.
AtB is not bypassing global cooldowns. it does not reduce cooldowns like a half life, the 30% reduction is based off the total original cooldown, not the exact number of seconds left. thats why the second activation can catch some skills up with the global, and ether make the skill avalable instantly or catch its cooldown up to its global, like running 2 copies would act. you can see the cooldown icon change from a clock to a horizontal bar moving down, when its reached the global threshold.
So now it's Aux2Bat-Online instead of Tac-Online or Escort-Online? Hahahaha.
Didn't the Chief engineers in the series actually use some 'exploits' to achieve certain goals within an episode? They just magically create some loophole in their technology to come with some conclusion to save the day once more? Isn't this exactly the same?
Oh wait... is this for people PvP'ing? If not, what do you care? In PvE, we're in it together, isn't it preferable that we kick our enemies TRIBBLE' with some awesome engineering possibilities like in the show.. work-around, being THE chief of Engineering?
how refreshing to see someone who knows what they are talking about. this is typically what i have to spell out, im glad someone else saved me some time
october 2012 was when 2 AtB builds became possible. i remember was that it was the same day the vet ships launched, and ive used it and talked about it since then. took almost 6 months for what ive been running to become this FOTM it is now.
its still just a way for something that has a lot of eng to use it to get more tactical, at the expense of aux. the ships that have the largest increase in performance from it are still cruisers with a LTC and COM eng, cruisers with more diverse setups get less out of it, some are even better off without it.
a couple escorts and destroyers benefit from it, being able to have a COM tac and run 2 copies of AtB is definitely a treat. those ships tend to have sub par turn rates though and need it to be at all competitive against the best actual escorts.
i think its funny when people think AtB cruisers are some invincible thing, thats truly hilarious. if they got rid of AtB, most of those cruisers would see thier DPS drop at least in half wile their tanking would at least double. you get use of AtS and AtD back, actual STRONG aux healing, even room to double up RSP if you like. you think they are hard to kill now, no they are just well flown. try shooting through an actual healer build, and see how soft an AtB cruiser is.
AtB is not bypassing global cooldowns. it does not reduce cooldowns like a half life, the 30% reduction is based off the total original cooldown, not the exact number of seconds left. thats why the second activation can catch some skills up with the global, and ether make the skill avalable instantly or catch its cooldown up to its global, like running 2 copies would act. you can see the cooldown icon change from a clock to a horizontal bar moving down, when its reached the global threshold.
I see what you guys are saying as far as mechanics but it still doesnt make it less of a balance issue IMO. Sure it gives the user the ability to double their tac boffs, great for crusisers. But it also doubles everything else.
When you look at the doff system there are various groups of doffs that give the CHANCE to lower cooldown. x3 energy wpn doffs for a pretty solid chance to lower cooldown on bfaw for example. With aux2bat x2 and the 3x tech doffs you ( not chance but DO) lower cooldowns on everything , essentially doubling your boff layout.
I think the guy above me hit right on, aux2bat was a fix for cruisers back when they really couldnt hold up at all. But , like it or not, all the new content and power creep has further negated that gap between cruiser and escort.
I also agree that the true offensive issues tied to aux2bat is broken bfaw and dem procs. But as I stated earlier for me (engineer fed 80% of the time) the issue comes from running things like rsp , coupled w the doff for extend time, with what.. 28-30 seconds dowtime? Dem with 30 second downtime? And honestly even then I dont cry OP, im just sick of going into the game on fed and kdf just to see every ship reduced to just circling eachother pounding that spacebar. It just makes for a dull in my opinion.
Lastly, for the argument that it makes cruisers viable in the tac department. How would auxbat supporters feel about a similar mechanic for sci ships to make them viable in the tac dept. Or escorts a similar mechanic which makes them viable in the eng. Dept? I imagine yoh would say "hell no" and you would be right. New gear, consoles etc. Are now out that allow cruisers to be "viable" the old fix for the problem is now just compounding with this new stuff and is to much. Games progress, things need adjustment its not a bad thing or anything worth getting up in arms about, atleast in my eyes. Everyone should want a lot of diverse builds and play styles, not a single go to for such a vast number of ppl.
- written on my phone forgive my spelling as I have sausage fingers
I think to be honest a lot of the problems in this game really all tie back to the original design concept of tactical for damage, engineering for heals and damage mitigation and science for debuffing and debuff clearing.
Sure it was ok when we had ships that were commander and lt commander tactical, engineering or science only but now we have the hybrids we're seeing a lot of problems, especially with the tactical aspect. Stick A2B in an older ship like the dreadnought cruiser, galaxy or the other one and it's balanced and keeps them competitive especially with what was escorts online.
Then you get the hybrids which can use it to double up on the commander level tactical and you see it beefing up the damage. Couple that with the FAW procing omega amp more than it should, slip in a cheeky DEM to make the procs happen more too and you have a recipe for OP.
Then we get to the thing everyone is defending, attack pattern beta. I hear many reasons to defend it, some say it's only a PvE problem and so it doesn't matter. Others say well if it can't stack or gets nerfed then other things should get herded blah blah blah.
Here's the thing, no other force multiplier has a 100% uptime, hell it's almost as strong as sensor scan from a science captain and with 100% uptime and is tactical! I keep hearing from ultimatum that science are force multiplier specialist but really, beta for PvE blows any other force multiplier out of the water. We can argue till we're blue in the face that it's an NPC issue but they're never gonna give NPCs tactical team spam to clear it.
Best fix I see is to change it so that it either doesn't stack, doesn't stack with the same rank or gets massive diminishing returns. Then hit the overcap problem by either making overcapping work for everything equally or nerf it by 50% for cruisers along with fixing these massive omega amp procs. We may see a balance between cruisers and escorts.
Then if A2B is still a problem, increase same ability cool down for it to be 15-20s, would stop rapid cycling of quicker cool down abilities but still have some benefit if used at the right time.
Then we get to the thing everyone is defending, attack pattern beta. I hear many reasons to defend it, some say it's only a PvE problem and so it doesn't matter. Others say well if it can't stack or gets nerfed then other things should get herded blah blah blah.
Here's the thing, no other force multiplier has a 100% uptime, hell it's almost as strong as sensor scan from a science captain and with 100% uptime and is tactical! I keep hearing from ultimatum that science are force multiplier specialist but really, beta for PvE blows any other force multiplier out of the water. We can argue till we're blue in the face that it's an NPC issue but they're never gonna give NPCs tactical team spam to clear it.
Qouted for Truth.
I am still amazed that people defend APB and think it is even remotely balanced. As you said 100% uptime, effects entire team, etc etc.
I think to be honest a lot of the problems in this game really all tie back to the original design concept of tactical for damage, engineering for heals and damage mitigation and science for debuffing and debuff clearing.
Sure it was ok when we had ships that were commander and lt commander tactical, engineering or science only but now we have the hybrids we're seeing a lot of problems, especially with the tactical aspect. Stick A2B in an older ship like the dreadnought cruiser, galaxy or the other one and it's balanced and keeps them competitive especially with what was escorts online.
Then you get the hybrids which can use it to double up on the commander level tactical and you see it beefing up the damage. Couple that with the FAW procing omega amp more than it should, slip in a cheeky DEM to make the procs happen more too and you have a recipe for OP.
Then we get to the thing everyone is defending, attack pattern beta. I hear many reasons to defend it, some say it's only a PvE problem and so it doesn't matter. Others say well if it can't stack or gets nerfed then other things should get herded blah blah blah.
Here's the thing, no other force multiplier has a 100% uptime, hell it's almost as strong as sensor scan from a science captain and with 100% uptime and is tactical! I keep hearing from ultimatum that science are force multiplier specialist but really, beta for PvE blows any other force multiplier out of the water. We can argue till we're blue in the face that it's an NPC issue but they're never gonna give NPCs tactical team spam to clear it.
Best fix I see is to change it so that it either doesn't stack, doesn't stack with the same rank or gets massive diminishing returns. Then hit the overcap problem by either making overcapping work for everything equally or nerf it by 50% for cruisers along with fixing these massive omega amp procs. We may see a balance between cruisers and escorts.
Then if A2B is still a problem, increase same ability cool down for it to be 15-20s, would stop rapid cycling of quicker cool down abilities but still have some benefit if used at the right time.
If we could give +1s I would. This just about sums up what's going on in the current game. I know people like seeing big numbers and really fast STF times, but all this will lead to is burnt out players.
The simple fix is to prevent stacking of all attack patterns. APB and APD should only have one copy per level active, and using a second copy should simply reset the cooldown back to maximum. FOMM also has this issue - it should not be stacked 5 deep on a gateway or tac cube basically letting beam cruisers hit it for 10000 damage a shot.
The complex fix is to modify negative resistance to produce heavy diminishing returns. Basically, once resistance hits 0 then it takes a lot of debuffing to get to double damage territory.
The intermediate fix is to have APB, APD and FOMM only remove positive resistance. Basically, hard cap their debuffs at 0 resist for the target. That still leaves them useful in PVP and against NPCs with resists (CE comes to mind) but prevents the ridiculous aspect of the debuffs.
I would leave sensor scan and sci powers as is - they should be able to get into negative territory. Science ships sacrifice enough firepower to compensate, and it might actually get teams using one or two to run uncapped debuffs.
See I don't agree with saying sensor scan should stack but not FOMM, way I see it is FOMM doesn't have a high uptime and it's not even as strong as beta 3. So saying one should stack but not the other is a bit of favouritism.
To be honest I just think the whole system needs clarification from the devs. Are they wanting a trinity or not? Do they intend all things damage related to be the department of tactical or not?
At the moment we get people screaming a science ships role is to debuff and heal while tacticals are supposed to do more damage than everyone else yet we have a game where 85% of what is played is completed by blowing stuff up in as fast a time as possible. Hell we even have timers for the optionals a lot of the time too. Which obviously clearly favours the captains and the ships that do damage.
If we are supposed to have a trinity then there needs to be much clearer definition between the ships and classes and missions need to require it. If we're supposed to have something where there is no trinity then damage has to be shared out equally with heals. It's not good design to put all damage in one classes hands without clearly designed and needed roles where it is really hard to do content without a good mix.
What we have at the moment is one side, mainly PvPers screaming know your role, you aren't a damage dealer, you can't tank etc and on the other side we get mechanics like A2B, damage components to a lot of sci abilities and these new consoles designed to add damage to them.
I think to be honest a lot of the problems in this game really all tie back to the original design concept of tactical for damage, engineering for heals and damage mitigation and science for debuffing and debuff clearing.
Sure it was ok when we had ships that were commander and lt commander tactical, engineering or science only but now we have the hybrids we're seeing a lot of problems, especially with the tactical aspect. Stick A2B in an older ship like the dreadnought cruiser, galaxy or the other one and it's balanced and keeps them competitive especially with what was escorts online.
Then you get the hybrids which can use it to double up on the commander level tactical and you see it beefing up the damage. Couple that with the FAW procing omega amp more than it should, slip in a cheeky DEM to make the procs happen more too and you have a recipe for OP.
Then we get to the thing everyone is defending, attack pattern beta. I hear many reasons to defend it, some say it's only a PvE problem and so it doesn't matter. Others say well if it can't stack or gets nerfed then other things should get herded blah blah blah.
Here's the thing, no other force multiplier has a 100% uptime, hell it's almost as strong as sensor scan from a science captain and with 100% uptime and is tactical! I keep hearing from ultimatum that science are force multiplier specialist but really, beta for PvE blows any other force multiplier out of the water. We can argue till we're blue in the face that it's an NPC issue but they're never gonna give NPCs tactical team spam to clear it.
Best fix I see is to change it so that it either doesn't stack, doesn't stack with the same rank or gets massive diminishing returns. Then hit the overcap problem by either making overcapping work for everything equally or nerf it by 50% for cruisers along with fixing these massive omega amp procs. We may see a balance between cruisers and escorts.
Then if A2B is still a problem, increase same ability cool down for it to be 15-20s, would stop rapid cycling of quicker cool down abilities but still have some benefit if used at the right time.
I just cant agree more with this post and the one on the next page. A2B on a gal-x and it gives the old girl a shot. But jesus toss it on an avenger or monbosh. So yea when you gave that example it really made sense to me. Its just an example of how the game has progressed since the time when a2b was needed on some ships. Now a2b compounded with all the new power creep is just getting out of hand.
And if you still don't think that a2b is getting out of hand, go to kerrat...do an stf. See how many of those ships are running it. Furthermore, in kerrat theres a little game I play called who can pick the funniest ship running a2b. So far, B'rel,T'varo and defiant are winning ( mind you these are as bfaw boats). If it wasn't too powerful you wouldn't see knuckleheads like that throwing the damn thing on every ship they can,
Its the same with every game. People gravitate towards what they see as the most op'd build they can find. Why? Because if you're not running it, you're a noob and will likely lose most fights. No one looks for a challenge anymore. Faw is something I use only if I have a lot of enemies to take down, or I'm trying to draw npc fire off of a teammate. I find DEM is more useful with beam overload anyway. But the biggest draw aux2bat has for me is reducing the cooldowns of my cruiser heals, along with getting my torp high yield and beam overload back up. I'll probably be switching out dem for another heal though, seeing as it really isn't that useful to me. I would say, to make it less powerful, make aux2bat something that can't be used if you have certain other abilities or doffs. Force people to choose which one they want, and build around that.
The A2Dam speedsters are way more difficult to kill than any A2B or A2SIF builds, as they are really hard to catch and their speed boosts their defenses high enough that it throws off the attackers Hit Chance and Crit Chance.
Shhhh! Don't give away that secret! :P
But to reply to earlier posts, I've been playing for quite awhile now and frankly, once you call something "cheating" you stop looking at the topic subjectively and are prone to being biased. With that being said, let's take a look at a single VR Technician DOff:
10% cooldown reduction on use of Auxiliary Power to Battery.
This is not overwhelming by itself. To those people screaming that this "cheats" the global cooldown system, let me point out saying simply: It does not.
First off, there're multiple DOffs that reduces cooldown to a much greater extent than one VR Technicians. You have DOffs that reduce any Team's cooldown (stackable) by a flat 8s. There're DOffs that have a 30% chance (stackable) to reduce cooldown of EPtX skills. There're also DOffs that have a 30% chance to reduce Deflector abilities cooldown...all with a much higher percentage than a VR Technician.
Additionally, A2B builds and all other cooldown reduction builds are still bound by the same shared cooldowns on all skills. Even if you can punch A2B every 10 seconds, it would make no difference as it is still subject to the cooldown ceiling. Not only that, but it also takes a ton of EC/dilithium to invest into, but it also takes up 3 DOff seats to run.
Furthermore, double A2B builds also drops all Aux power and discourages the useage of A2D and A2SIF.
Now with everything said above, I will go back to the thread's main point: Is RSP on an Aux2Bat build overpowered?
Here's my analysis from a test I ran yesterday (ironically I was also showing it to my fleetmate as well in a 1v1 pvp):
Assuming 3 VR Technician - 30% cooldown
Because RSP's cooldown has a 2m 45s base, A2B will drop its cooldown by 49.5s per use.
0s: Uses RSP and A2B - RSP CD: 2m 45s dropped to approximately 1m 56s
10s: Uses A2B - RSP CD: 1m 46s dropped to 56s
This is as far down as it will drop because of the cooldown ceiling.
However, my results ingame have varied slightly, as after 1 use of A2B still had RSP in the 2m range. A second useage of A2B dropped it to about 50s, which is about right, since the cap of cooldown ceiling is 1 minute.
So the final result is a 1minute cooldown on RSP. Within that 1 minute, you have 10/12/16s of shield "invulnerability" depending on which rank of RSP you have. Assuming you have a VR RSP DOff that adds 8s to RSP, you'll have an 18/20/24s RSP.
That's a 30/33/40% uptime for RSP. Not going to lie: That's VERY strong, considering a normal cruiser still has other backups like Tact Team, EPtS, and TSS to keep their shields up during the 36s downtime.
Conclusion: So overall, do I think something needs a nerf in specifics? Yes and No...more specifically, I would definitely welcome a change. Taking apart all these factors contributing to an RSP's cooldown is a solid first step. What to change is the next step. From what I can see, nerfing VR technicians is not the answer. Instead, since the problem is limited to RSP, I would change the GLOBAL cooldown of RSP so that the uptime is reduced while leaving the other skills intact.
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All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
But since the user of RSP wit hA2B is likely to face other DEM users, it just doesn't matter. Their hull falls out under them with full shields. Even my T'Varo with DEM1 can chew up a A2B Cruiser with RSP3 running, so long as the attack run crits.
You have DEM, Burns, BO Doffs, and Weapon Procs that bypass shields. RSP isn't even on the radar of PvP trouble. If the attacker doesn't have anything to bypass the shields well enough, simply waiting for that 30sec window is easy enough.
The best things about A2B is being able to give a single the skill, the cooldown of two skills. I mean, who wouldn't want 2xDEM3 or 2xRF3 right?
If I were to change anything, it would either be to give Techs "A Chance To Reduce" instead of an always reduce OR I would change all other Doffs that gave "A Chance To Reduce" to a flat out cool down reduction.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
A2B builds have been around for 2 years now in varying shapes and forms. The popular set-up hasn't changed much since the rep system was introduced.
Beyond the double proc issue with FAW, there's no problem with them other than it's easier to "focus" fire on a single target (and spiraling isn't as good a defense as it is with cannons).
Here's a simple solution: Wipe out all boffs, doffs, captain abilities, and non common equipment. Everyone gets white items, they have to shuffle power levels to run, heal, or fight, and distribute shields manually.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
Comments
Well thats a glaring issue then. All reductions should stop at the global. Seems that would lessen the OP issues of near constant uptimes on powers.
R.I.P
The skill may technically be "reduced" but you are still prevented by the global cooldown. Anyone that thinks otherwise is clearly not playing the same game we are and making stuff up.
So please stop spreading these moronic unfounded and untrue lies.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
If GCD is 30 seconds and base is 45 seconds:
A2B one can take it from 45 to ~32 instantly
A2B 2 10 seconds later will take it from 22 to ~18 or 19, depending on activation.
After 18 seconds, you reset the ability, 30 seconds having elapsed.
What you are seeing is a power with 15s GCD:
A2B 1 takes it from 30 to 21
A2B 2 takes it from 11 to ~4
If you miss a cycle of A2B, you may see it go from 8 to 0, with 22 seconds elapsed. Your actual CD is 22 seconds, not 8 seconds.
Otherwise, EPTX would keep stacking and you could run 4 copies of EPTS and have essentially infinite resists, or EPTW and have TRIBBLE damage. I use both EPTs with A2B, and this does not happen. The 30 second GCD DOES HOLD.
Last I used Aux2Batt I saw my FAW cooldown go from 5 to 0 so you'll have to forgive my lack of faith in that statement.
Get an ability like DEM which has a 45s global cool down and test A2B with that or rotate shield polarity. You will see that it gets locked at the global even though you can and will have used A2B several times while it's ticking down on the global.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
First DEM + A2B = 1:02 seconds on cooldown
Second A2B @ 52 seconds = 32 seconds on cooldown
First A2B skill again @ 24 seconds = 21ish seconds on cooldown.
What it does give access to is the ability to run one powerful skill and give it a cool down like there were two of them. That IS working as intended folks.
Yes please make a video because it only happens to you
I already adjust the post while you were making yours. Might want to adjust your post bud.
I had to double check the math on DEM and test it against other skills. Nothing breaks the global cooldown, you just can't see it unless you sit and do the math.
Set a stop watch to 45 secs and run DEM3 with 2xA2B w/Doffs and you will be able to use DEM as soon as watch hits zero and that is with pressing the A2B skills every time them cycle up.
I'm one of the main ones doing this in Kerrat in a sci brel due to fustration over all the new people copying a2b builds I have used for almost a year, and due to not wanting to use my a2b build there anymore when everyone else is.
R.I.P
Watching them play I have to say that it was the most boring, uninspiring match ever. They circle. That's it. No flair. No pizazz. Quite frankly, no skill. You could lose 8 of your fingers in a cooking accident and still play an Aux2Batt BFAW ship effectively.
They lost, btw.
It used to be used on one group of ships:
Cruisers/battlecruisers
It did indeed change the game somewhat, but only to help cruisers out in a time when most people really did dismiss them most of the time, and the game was fully into 'Escorts Online' mindset.
Two things have brought it to the 'bad' thing so many seem to think it is now:
1. Power creep (fleet stuff, cruiser commands, new reps, new gear, etc)
2. Hybrid ships (basically more and more ships that are hybrids of various types, allowing A2B to flourish)
I didn't say Romulans, because in a way, they apply for both.
Anyways, those two things have brought it to where it is today. In particular for hybrid ships. For awhile, cruisers were about all you could use it on. A couple lockbox ships, sure, but nothing really erroneous. There were the vet ships as well, similar to the now very popular Scimitar, but few people had Vet ships, and few of those used it, let alone even choosing to use A2B on it in the first place.
Power creep stuff has removed much of the weaknesses of the build. Lots of extra passive healing, everyone getting Plasmonic Leech, all the new rep passives, fancy new fleet consoles, shiny DOFFs, and so on.
So something that was once relatively balanced and designed for a certain group of ships, has been beefed up and butchered over the months due to those primary reasons to the point that there's such an A2B mentality, both those who use it, and even those who don't like it.
how refreshing to see someone who knows what they are talking about. this is typically what i have to spell out, im glad someone else saved me some time
october 2012 was when 2 AtB builds became possible. i remember was that it was the same day the vet ships launched, and ive used it and talked about it since then. took almost 6 months for what ive been running to become this FOTM it is now.
its still just a way for something that has a lot of eng to use it to get more tactical, at the expense of aux. the ships that have the largest increase in performance from it are still cruisers with a LTC and COM eng, cruisers with more diverse setups get less out of it, some are even better off without it.
a couple escorts and destroyers benefit from it, being able to have a COM tac and run 2 copies of AtB is definitely a treat. those ships tend to have sub par turn rates though and need it to be at all competitive against the best actual escorts.
i think its funny when people think AtB cruisers are some invincible thing, thats truly hilarious. if they got rid of AtB, most of those cruisers would see thier DPS drop at least in half wile their tanking would at least double. you get use of AtS and AtD back, actual STRONG aux healing, even room to double up RSP if you like. you think they are hard to kill now, no they are just well flown. try shooting through an actual healer build, and see how soft an AtB cruiser is.
AtB is not bypassing global cooldowns. it does not reduce cooldowns like a half life, the 30% reduction is based off the total original cooldown, not the exact number of seconds left. thats why the second activation can catch some skills up with the global, and ether make the skill avalable instantly or catch its cooldown up to its global, like running 2 copies would act. you can see the cooldown icon change from a clock to a horizontal bar moving down, when its reached the global threshold.
Didn't the Chief engineers in the series actually use some 'exploits' to achieve certain goals within an episode? They just magically create some loophole in their technology to come with some conclusion to save the day once more? Isn't this exactly the same?
Oh wait... is this for people PvP'ing? If not, what do you care? In PvE, we're in it together, isn't it preferable that we kick our enemies TRIBBLE' with some awesome engineering possibilities like in the show.. work-around, being THE chief of Engineering?
Also, I thought PvP was pretty much dead..
I see what you guys are saying as far as mechanics but it still doesnt make it less of a balance issue IMO. Sure it gives the user the ability to double their tac boffs, great for crusisers. But it also doubles everything else.
When you look at the doff system there are various groups of doffs that give the CHANCE to lower cooldown. x3 energy wpn doffs for a pretty solid chance to lower cooldown on bfaw for example. With aux2bat x2 and the 3x tech doffs you ( not chance but DO) lower cooldowns on everything , essentially doubling your boff layout.
I think the guy above me hit right on, aux2bat was a fix for cruisers back when they really couldnt hold up at all. But , like it or not, all the new content and power creep has further negated that gap between cruiser and escort.
I also agree that the true offensive issues tied to aux2bat is broken bfaw and dem procs. But as I stated earlier for me (engineer fed 80% of the time) the issue comes from running things like rsp , coupled w the doff for extend time, with what.. 28-30 seconds dowtime? Dem with 30 second downtime? And honestly even then I dont cry OP, im just sick of going into the game on fed and kdf just to see every ship reduced to just circling eachother pounding that spacebar. It just makes for a dull in my opinion.
Lastly, for the argument that it makes cruisers viable in the tac department. How would auxbat supporters feel about a similar mechanic for sci ships to make them viable in the tac dept. Or escorts a similar mechanic which makes them viable in the eng. Dept? I imagine yoh would say "hell no" and you would be right. New gear, consoles etc. Are now out that allow cruisers to be "viable" the old fix for the problem is now just compounding with this new stuff and is to much. Games progress, things need adjustment its not a bad thing or anything worth getting up in arms about, atleast in my eyes. Everyone should want a lot of diverse builds and play styles, not a single go to for such a vast number of ppl.
- written on my phone forgive my spelling as I have sausage fingers
Sure it was ok when we had ships that were commander and lt commander tactical, engineering or science only but now we have the hybrids we're seeing a lot of problems, especially with the tactical aspect. Stick A2B in an older ship like the dreadnought cruiser, galaxy or the other one and it's balanced and keeps them competitive especially with what was escorts online.
Then you get the hybrids which can use it to double up on the commander level tactical and you see it beefing up the damage. Couple that with the FAW procing omega amp more than it should, slip in a cheeky DEM to make the procs happen more too and you have a recipe for OP.
Then we get to the thing everyone is defending, attack pattern beta. I hear many reasons to defend it, some say it's only a PvE problem and so it doesn't matter. Others say well if it can't stack or gets nerfed then other things should get herded blah blah blah.
Here's the thing, no other force multiplier has a 100% uptime, hell it's almost as strong as sensor scan from a science captain and with 100% uptime and is tactical! I keep hearing from ultimatum that science are force multiplier specialist but really, beta for PvE blows any other force multiplier out of the water. We can argue till we're blue in the face that it's an NPC issue but they're never gonna give NPCs tactical team spam to clear it.
Best fix I see is to change it so that it either doesn't stack, doesn't stack with the same rank or gets massive diminishing returns. Then hit the overcap problem by either making overcapping work for everything equally or nerf it by 50% for cruisers along with fixing these massive omega amp procs. We may see a balance between cruisers and escorts.
Then if A2B is still a problem, increase same ability cool down for it to be 15-20s, would stop rapid cycling of quicker cool down abilities but still have some benefit if used at the right time.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Qouted for Truth.
I am still amazed that people defend APB and think it is even remotely balanced. As you said 100% uptime, effects entire team, etc etc.
If we could give +1s I would. This just about sums up what's going on in the current game. I know people like seeing big numbers and really fast STF times, but all this will lead to is burnt out players.
The complex fix is to modify negative resistance to produce heavy diminishing returns. Basically, once resistance hits 0 then it takes a lot of debuffing to get to double damage territory.
The intermediate fix is to have APB, APD and FOMM only remove positive resistance. Basically, hard cap their debuffs at 0 resist for the target. That still leaves them useful in PVP and against NPCs with resists (CE comes to mind) but prevents the ridiculous aspect of the debuffs.
I would leave sensor scan and sci powers as is - they should be able to get into negative territory. Science ships sacrifice enough firepower to compensate, and it might actually get teams using one or two to run uncapped debuffs.
To be honest I just think the whole system needs clarification from the devs. Are they wanting a trinity or not? Do they intend all things damage related to be the department of tactical or not?
At the moment we get people screaming a science ships role is to debuff and heal while tacticals are supposed to do more damage than everyone else yet we have a game where 85% of what is played is completed by blowing stuff up in as fast a time as possible. Hell we even have timers for the optionals a lot of the time too. Which obviously clearly favours the captains and the ships that do damage.
If we are supposed to have a trinity then there needs to be much clearer definition between the ships and classes and missions need to require it. If we're supposed to have something where there is no trinity then damage has to be shared out equally with heals. It's not good design to put all damage in one classes hands without clearly designed and needed roles where it is really hard to do content without a good mix.
What we have at the moment is one side, mainly PvPers screaming know your role, you aren't a damage dealer, you can't tank etc and on the other side we get mechanics like A2B, damage components to a lot of sci abilities and these new consoles designed to add damage to them.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
I just cant agree more with this post and the one on the next page. A2B on a gal-x and it gives the old girl a shot. But jesus toss it on an avenger or monbosh. So yea when you gave that example it really made sense to me. Its just an example of how the game has progressed since the time when a2b was needed on some ships. Now a2b compounded with all the new power creep is just getting out of hand.
And if you still don't think that a2b is getting out of hand, go to kerrat...do an stf. See how many of those ships are running it. Furthermore, in kerrat theres a little game I play called who can pick the funniest ship running a2b. So far, B'rel,T'varo and defiant are winning ( mind you these are as bfaw boats). If it wasn't too powerful you wouldn't see knuckleheads like that throwing the damn thing on every ship they can,
Shhhh! Don't give away that secret! :P
But to reply to earlier posts, I've been playing for quite awhile now and frankly, once you call something "cheating" you stop looking at the topic subjectively and are prone to being biased. With that being said, let's take a look at a single VR Technician DOff:
10% cooldown reduction on use of Auxiliary Power to Battery.
This is not overwhelming by itself. To those people screaming that this "cheats" the global cooldown system, let me point out saying simply: It does not.
First off, there're multiple DOffs that reduces cooldown to a much greater extent than one VR Technicians. You have DOffs that reduce any Team's cooldown (stackable) by a flat 8s. There're DOffs that have a 30% chance (stackable) to reduce cooldown of EPtX skills. There're also DOffs that have a 30% chance to reduce Deflector abilities cooldown...all with a much higher percentage than a VR Technician.
Additionally, A2B builds and all other cooldown reduction builds are still bound by the same shared cooldowns on all skills. Even if you can punch A2B every 10 seconds, it would make no difference as it is still subject to the cooldown ceiling. Not only that, but it also takes a ton of EC/dilithium to invest into, but it also takes up 3 DOff seats to run.
Furthermore, double A2B builds also drops all Aux power and discourages the useage of A2D and A2SIF.
Now with everything said above, I will go back to the thread's main point: Is RSP on an Aux2Bat build overpowered?
Here's my analysis from a test I ran yesterday (ironically I was also showing it to my fleetmate as well in a 1v1 pvp):
Assuming 3 VR Technician - 30% cooldown
Because RSP's cooldown has a 2m 45s base, A2B will drop its cooldown by 49.5s per use.
0s: Uses RSP and A2B - RSP CD: 2m 45s dropped to approximately 1m 56s
10s: Uses A2B - RSP CD: 1m 46s dropped to 56s
This is as far down as it will drop because of the cooldown ceiling.
However, my results ingame have varied slightly, as after 1 use of A2B still had RSP in the 2m range. A second useage of A2B dropped it to about 50s, which is about right, since the cap of cooldown ceiling is 1 minute.
So the final result is a 1minute cooldown on RSP. Within that 1 minute, you have 10/12/16s of shield "invulnerability" depending on which rank of RSP you have. Assuming you have a VR RSP DOff that adds 8s to RSP, you'll have an 18/20/24s RSP.
That's a 30/33/40% uptime for RSP. Not going to lie: That's VERY strong, considering a normal cruiser still has other backups like Tact Team, EPtS, and TSS to keep their shields up during the 36s downtime.
Conclusion: So overall, do I think something needs a nerf in specifics? Yes and No...more specifically, I would definitely welcome a change. Taking apart all these factors contributing to an RSP's cooldown is a solid first step. What to change is the next step. From what I can see, nerfing VR technicians is not the answer. Instead, since the problem is limited to RSP, I would change the GLOBAL cooldown of RSP so that the uptime is reduced while leaving the other skills intact.
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
You have DEM, Burns, BO Doffs, and Weapon Procs that bypass shields. RSP isn't even on the radar of PvP trouble. If the attacker doesn't have anything to bypass the shields well enough, simply waiting for that 30sec window is easy enough.
The best things about A2B is being able to give a single the skill, the cooldown of two skills. I mean, who wouldn't want 2xDEM3 or 2xRF3 right?
If I were to change anything, it would either be to give Techs "A Chance To Reduce" instead of an always reduce OR I would change all other Doffs that gave "A Chance To Reduce" to a flat out cool down reduction.
This I think would be the way to go but even with 3 blue DCEs an EPtX cycle is almost certain...
Beyond the double proc issue with FAW, there's no problem with them other than it's easier to "focus" fire on a single target (and spiraling isn't as good a defense as it is with cannons).
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Please don't bring that doff into this discussion. It has been broken for 13 months now. Only works on GW and TR, and it only has a 25% chance.
Support fixing the deflector doff: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=862411