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i think bfaw needs to be looked at...
dahminus
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Just swapped my cannon build to a beam build (more like added gear for quick swap overs) and the ease of achieving ridiculously high dps is rather ridiculous...
From changing from cannons to beams and csv to bfaw...i saw a dps increase up to 30k...
The question and follow up looking into is how bfaw works...
Does it insta-fire it's entire cycle (i think it's 4 hits In 5 seconds) within a second or less?
I guess the counter measure before was energy drain. But we can counter that so hard now...i think bfaw needs to be able to ignore some drain resistance.
Not a pvper. Not complaining about ring of fire builds...i just see an ability being way more powerful then it's counter parts...
From changing from cannons to beams and csv to bfaw...i saw a dps increase up to 30k...
The question and follow up looking into is how bfaw works...
Does it insta-fire it's entire cycle (i think it's 4 hits In 5 seconds) within a second or less?
I guess the counter measure before was energy drain. But we can counter that so hard now...i think bfaw needs to be able to ignore some drain resistance.
Not a pvper. Not complaining about ring of fire builds...i just see an ability being way more powerful then it's counter parts...
Post edited by dahminus on
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The end result is that if you have large number of enemies you wish to lay indiscriminate whoopass upon, beams will outperform cannons, but if you wish to dispense justice upon a small set of enemies, cannons will serve you better.
^^^ Would make a wonderful signature!
BFAW is great for ships with only a single Lt. Tac or an Lt. and Ensign tac. It helps us be able to join in the serving of said whoopass.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Bfaw when, when it's flaws are removed, leads the charge in whoopassing
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
So yeah, the highest useful DPS from beams I can think of is perhaps 12 to 15k from a tactical captain under the current power level. I can see that reaching maybe 17k after fleet consoles are added.
They should adapt the Borg to all this FAW cheese. After seeing this video today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzTbLMBuCpc
all I can say is, it has gotten way too easy.
Give all the Borg at least a fighting chance against Aux2Bat builds. Give them all subnuc beam and make the AI smart enough to use it to throw a wrench into the FAW party.
You don't experience these readouts because you are building your ship to its optimized potential and you probably are not positioning yourself for maximized damage output.
Not attacking your build, just stating why you don't see the high numbers...
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I know why I'm not getting silly numbers, like I said, I don't spam FAW at everything in sight all the time, mainly because I refuse to run Aux2Batt.
If you spam FAW at every target in range all the time then yeah, you'll get stupid high numbers but it'll be useless fluff damage for the most part, try running a build where you only use FAW when all the resulting damage will be useful and not insta-healed off and tell us what your dps figures are then, I guarantee it won't be higher than 15k.
Nope...bfaw dishes out more dps...by a lot more
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
At 30k dps, everything melts...some hit 55k dps....ray gun destruction...
Even if some targets are invincible, there is more then enough dps to fry the ones that aren't
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
For your numbers are you a tac? I have got that range of dps in tac with tac captain stuff rolling and good gear
On my eng it is more normal with same gear.
Unfortunately there is no way to equalize in the current system. It may be too much for tac while not enough for eng. But if you nerf tac captain stuff just for FAW then it messes with other things.
well, before the beam power drain was overcome, DHCs were far superior to any other weapon setup. keep that in mind
you do realize that useless dmg is not so useless, when you are breaking through the healing abilities of some parts, right? eg when you shoot the transformers, if you have high enough dmg, it will burn through the healing of the gens (oh, that brings back the good old tric mine builds...
and you do have useless dmg with CSV as well. there is no pure dps in this game, but useful faw dps in a 30k ship's case, is more likely to reach 20-25k dps.
so you are crippling yourself from two ends?
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
This may need to be qualified to a single target or when maximized. If you have a tight grouping of enemies I would agree with this, but my experience is FAW achieves its max potential easier than GW or CSV just because it is using BA with 250 deg arcs.
your looking at a parser and not ship destruction
CSV3 a grav well and 4 sperhers die in 5 seconds
A cube at kit in 10 seconds
parsers dont give the real picture
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Given that I don't care for stupidly high damage figures and prefer something more fun... I'd say no. Aux2Batt has a horrible of automation to it, almost like I'm not actually playing a game, why play a game in such a way that you're not playing the game?
As for my level of performance, I'm quite capable of soloing the entire job of Kang guard in my eng cruiser and have been known to outperform upto 3 pug escorts working together in the past, if that's the sign of a crippled ship then I'd have to question your definition of the term...
That FAW spam to guard the Kang is overkill. Use all that FAW spam on the 3 cube platforms. A single escort can handle the Kang fine unless they don't know what they are doing.
Soloing the kang is easy as well...solo all three cube platforms and then I'd colour myself impressed
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
The thing is you can overcap beams to who knows what. I don't think anyone has found a cap yet. All other energy weapons, however, have an overcap limit of about 135 power. I think that's just weird.
FAW gets double the procs currently and has been flagged by a dev in another thread as a known bug. This means, if using disruptor or romulan plasma beams, or just about anything with a useful proc like Omega Weapons amplifier, or the Omega T4 rep power for extra hull damage you're going to see a lot more DPS.
This all put together makes beams a little over the top currently.
I dunno what you mean by horrible automation. sure it messes up your timers, but it just makes a new rythm to the game. you are cycling powers no matter what, if anything getting used to the a2b way of working, is hard.
also, I get the feeling, that you think, putting a2b faw spam on a build is not only easy, but makes everything easy. and before you say, I am not saying it is hard, but it is not the easiest things to do (at a good level)
let me address that, with a sarcastic reply of: W0W so 1337!
^^
Kang duty is basically a 3-5k dps job (I think I oversold it tho), it is anything but hard, or impressive. take out a cube while doing kang duty, and you will impress me.
also, pug escorts are jokes. I was outdpsing them a year ago in a torpboat sci ship, with a sci character. make it pug scimitairs, and I might be impressed (?, not rly, but you would atleast make your point stronger)
edit: I dont mean any offense by the above, I do get what you are saying, and if you have fun, then it is all for the best, but those things are basically the new low since the powercreep reached new heights
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
In my experience it is about as easy as regular keybind play, but gives you a lot more dps for your buck, because of the combined effects of overcapping and ability-doubling. It's certainly not harder most other builds, just different.
One of my Romulan tacs got a free 50% increase in dps just by adding A2B to it's Fleet Dhelan DBB build. It suddenly got 2xAPB3 and 2xFAW3, plus bonus 2x CSV1 for 2 turrets. Didn't notice any particular drawbacks, either, whatever the advocates might claim about it's balancedness.
But.
However.
While very powerful, that didn't push that build from good to insane (STF) damage. That happened when a good team was entered into the equation. A good team, with the consequent debuff stacking, pretty much doubled my DPS again, and would probably have increased it even more if the Elite Weavers had been involved.
I find it's the way debuffs stack that dps is really forced to silly levels, coupled with the way high-speed stf's will pretty much eliminate the need for sustained dps - largely everything will be gone by the time the tac captain buffs are running out.
I have yet too see a build that can achieve 30k dps sustained (longer than 30 seconds) in a solo setting.
Funny, I've seen plenty of posts from people that just bind everything to a single key and just press away happily. The hard part is writing up the keybind.
That's on the agenda but I need to find a worthy Kang guard to make that possible, else I'll be spending lots of time around the Kang and very little around the shipyards. :P
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
This is probably what Jellico was getting at actually. Hes a fleetmate so I know where he is coming from. When weve grouped up Spheres in infected with a gw and Alpha/APB/CSVed them with our escorts, ive seen personal DPS spikes of 95,000 before (literally a million damage output in 10 seconds). Ive never seen a BFAW boat of any type reach that level of pure spike before. They can maintain 40-50 in some builds ive seen, but not the raw power of pure 45 degree ownage. Too bad theres no way to keep that up.
It only lasts a short time, but in that one instance, yes cannons win. Those are also the moments that account for about 60% of my total damage in most infected runs, since the beamers tend to dominate the rest (the cube at the end is the other place I tend to shine, an escort will almost always outdamage a broadsider at single target, especially over time)
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I would agree with this, my cruiser FAW is nothing compared to my Kumari. I might not put out large numbers on the damage score card, but my damage for effect is higher than a FAW.
In some ways though the creep in later rep systems really makes Omega simpleton. I don't want them touching omga though, they waste all their time on the repetitive missions, we need more time put into more diversity of game play and boff ability improvement.
Yeah, that is a main tactic we use when we fleet run... knot them up and lay waste to them with the escorts. Warp core breaches add to the mayhem there. :-)
Is a ship with 6+ turrets competitive? 360 degree all round fire constantly....no need to turn...
AP turrets/ AP cutting Beam / borg KCB - lower power rating than using other weapons....
Why are people so obsessed with DPS anyway? Just play the game - its a game.
Don't see anyone saying lets nerf Torpedo Spread as High Yield can't hit that many targets...