Starfleet, the Imperialists?

alan171717 · November 2013

Ok, is it just me, or is anyone else getting a serious imperialistic vibe from Season 8, by this I mean starfleet trying to come in, impose values, and wipe out the 'natives'

I mean look at the evidence:
-Starfleet attacks the unarmed medical ships (Called repair ships in game, but flakes refereed to them as medical ships)
-Refusal to negotiate: I have seen nothing that shows Starfleet ever tried to open negotiation
-Voth desperate attempts: On the ground combat systems they fight a desperate struggle to protect scientists as they try to extract Omega particles, it is clearly important to them or they wouldn't fight such a suicidal rear guard action
-Paints itself as the good guy: The evil Voth are trying to shut down warp travel across the galexy! We have to stop them for the good the the known universe (Other than the fact we have no idea what they want them for, and the fact they too only have warp travel)

What do you think?
Have I gone pants on head insane?
Have we all accidentally gone to the Mirror Universe and are ignoring the goatees?
Or is Starfleet just becoming evil and desperate?

amosov78 · November 2013

As mentioned the Romulan Republic is leading a joint operation dealing with the Voth, so Starfleet is left with one of two options; team up and shut up; or don't play and let the Romulans and Klingons enjoy the spoils and closer relations with each other. But since Starfleet has a directive that overrides the Prime Directive in instances like this, it doesn't seem so far out there.

gowankommando · November 2013

I've always looked at the universe of STO as "Prime.5"

It's not the goody goody socialist utopia of the Prime Universe, but on the flip side it's not as all out evil as the Mirror Universe, it lies some where in between.

If you look at it that way, it is a tad easier to swallow.

EDIT: Although I wouldn't mind Cryptic giving us a MU pack (ISS prefix, TE logo for our ships, etc.). I could help me really get into the Dino-genocide that is S8

emacsheadroom · November 2013

It's a game of "fly in and shoot the big dumb objects and get a reward". It's not the Federation. It's not Trek.

backyardserenade · November 2013

Evil and desperate it is.

But this has been a bit of an issue/theme for STO. I mean, this isn't the first time the players carry out insane orders (Admiral Zelle, anyone?).

stonewbie · November 2013

Nah, macsheadroom mentioned the same thing in his thread, and even the same thought occured to me my first few minutes in the dyson command building.

For me it was run around with worf > discover gate > show up in dyson sphere and fight everything. I think the 'fight everything' part should have gotten some story content as well just like Worf and the Sphere of Influence. Without the story explaining our entry and current situation in the dyson sphere it seems like we are the bad guys.

manlyyams · November 2013

It's also quite possible they tried. But also remember that the Voth consider earth ships to be an affront to their doctrine. Especially if the idea (a.k.a. heresy of doctrine) spread past that one poor mook who they bullied into a corner on VOY. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if they shot first as soon as they recognized the warp signatures, hull composition, identification beacons, bioscans, etc.

But also there was the fact that the romulans were heading the operation. Desperate as they are to prove themselves as a stable galactic power again, it's possible that they got a little trigger happy.

but no, i'm leaning more toward the idea that the Voth elders just want to destroy any earth ships they encounter, before the idea of their people coming from another planet becomes too widespread amongst their people and taint their "doctrine"

alan171717 · November 2013

manlyyams wrote: »

It's also quite possible they tried. But also remember that the Voth consider earth ships to be an affront to their doctrine. Especially if the idea (a.k.a. heresy of doctrine) spread past that one poor mook who they bullied into a corner on VOY. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if they shot first as soon as they recognized the warp signatures, hull composition, identification beacons, bioscans, etc.

But also there was the fact that the romulans were heading the operation. Desperate as they are to prove themselves as a stable galactic power again, it's possible that they got a little trigger happy.

but no, i'm leaning more toward the idea that the Voth elders just want to destroy any earth ships they encounter, before the idea of their people coming from another planet becomes too widespread amongst their people and taint their "doctrine"

I would have liked to see it either way, a little mission, hell a little dialogue branch letting your captain ask "Can't we, ya know, talk?"

syndonai · November 2013

How is it not trek, in the eyes of a klingon/romulan?

You don't have to partake if you're a traditionalist Starfleet player. :P

mirrorchaos · November 2013

reyan01 wrote: »

I posted this in another thread, but since it's relevant here too:

Other issues notwithstanding, the aspect I don't like here is that Starfleet etc seem to have appointed themselves as some kind of intergalactic Police. I mean, I know how dangerous Omega is presented as being, dangerous - and the sphere contains LOTS of them - but since when did Starfleet and co get to dictate what happens in another quadrant of the galaxy, in/on a Dyson Sphere that doesn't belong to them?

considering a 60's sci-fi show from the united states based the federation off the states, they have become on earth at least a planet wide police force these days. so it fits the galaxy wide police force in the star trek universe as well. and as for the omega particles, think of them as enriched uranium to a powerplant, rare and dangerous if misused, if accidentally blown up it would spread radiation everywhere like Pripyat in Ukraine and would likely remain unusable for a long time to come, omega particles are the same. a good idea is to monitor usage to make sure disasters are kept off the radar by trying to stop it before it happens again, in Starfleets case by keeping another Lantaru sector disaster from happening twice.

shaanithegreen · November 2013

manlyyams wrote: »

It's also quite possible they tried. But also remember that the Voth consider earth ships to be an affront to their doctrine. Especially if the idea (a.k.a. heresy of doctrine) spread past that one poor mook who they bullied into a corner on VOY. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if they shot first as soon as they recognized the warp signatures, hull composition, identification beacons, bioscans, etc.

Yeah, this. There's not going to be much talking if one side considers your existence to be heresy. You can read what the Voth think about you here and there in the ground zone, and they pretty much consider the Feds as vermin to be exterminated.

But you know, the Federation was always perfectly pacifistic on the show and the phasers were just pretty decorations that never got used a single time, so this totally isn't Star Trek, ect ect. :rolleyes:

gogereaver · November 2013

believe it or not that's cannon the omega directive overrides the prime directive. meaning they will do anything to stop it including killing med ships and imposing there will. guess you never watched voyager

manlyyams · November 2013

gogereaver wrote: »

believe it or not that's cannon the omega directive overrides the prime directive. meaning they will do anything to stop it including killing med ships and imposing there will. guess you never watched voyager

Ah yes, there's also this, on TOP of what the Voth think of the federation (vermin, an insult to Doctrine, etc. etc.)

so to be honest it all kinda matches up. *casually looks at how invasive and violent Janeway got when they got hit with the Omega Directive*

stonewbie · November 2013

reyan01 wrote: »

but since when did Starfleet and co get to dictate what happens in another quadrant of the galaxy, in/on a Dyson Sphere that doesn't belong to them?

When you first got into the Dyson Sphere command building the guy in charge (i think) said that the amount of Omega particles was enough to affect the delta quadrant and several other quadrants. I dont remember the exact wording of it, but it was mentioned.

saekiith · November 2013

shaanithegreen wrote: »

Yeah, this. There's not going to be much talking if one side considers your existence to be heresy. You can read what the Voth think about you here and there in the ground zone, and they pretty much consider the Feds as vermin to be exterminated.

But you know, the Federation was always perfectly pacifistic on the show and the phasers were just pretty decorations that never got used a single time, so this totally isn't Star Trek, ect ect. :rolleyes:

That exactly...

And on the other Hand for everyone trying to tell "But there were different Voth!" in Canon it was just 2 lone Scientists... one was a stinking traitor and coward that rescinded as soon as there was any kind of real opposition and one that was forced to rescind under the threat of destroying the evidence (ie. Voyager) while its Crew would have been incarcerated (ie. in dogmatic sceneries its a euphemism for either directly killed or "locked up and forgotten till they die of natural or unnatural causes, I mean who the hell cares?").

Sure we have new DOffs that are Voth... but see... they needed to FLEE their Kind for their believes and ended up with us... so...

I mean I would have been very happy if there were one or two missions that explained exactly that and why we're shooting each other but well... I work with what I got and know by the Series (ie. Omega Directive Overriding everything etc.).

Edit:
I think the wording was "ALL known Quadrants" so one stray Omega Particle going boom in all this and we're effed... no harvesting that stuff... no using that stuff... just dismantle the fabrication units and destroy any Omega Particle.

mirrorchaos · November 2013

gogereaver wrote: »

believe it or not that's cannon the omega directive overrides the prime directive. meaning they will do anything to stop it including killing med ships and imposing there will. guess you never watched voyager

yeah, but c'mon! that was the heavy handed and reckless janeway. not every starfleet captain will react the way she did.

gogereaver · November 2013

you right they would be much worse because she was alone at the time they normally and i mean this nuke the entire place and kill everyone she couldn't call in the big guns being they where on there own.

reimu · November 2013

the omega directive is absolute as we saw on voyager starfleet considers this material way to dangerous in anyone's hand even theirs if it became unstable it would destroy subspace for light years ... i dunno about you but anything that permanently damages subspace is bad ye sure the voth may have it under control or they may simply think they do remember that in star trek no one has managed to completely stabilize omega and sto is about as much star trek as Deep Space Nine this is not the Federation of TNG peace is a luxury they cannot obtain the federation has enemies on all sides who are unwilling to come to a diplomatic solution if they was following the fan bases outdated views on how starfleet should act the federation would be annihilated within a week to be honest nothing we have done is as bad as Sisko in pale moonlight he assistent in the assassination of a Romulan senator and then covered up it most likely if he had come clean the romulans would be at war with the federation instead

thutmosis85 · November 2013

reyan01 wrote: »

I
but since when did Starfleet and co get to dictate what happens in another quadrant of the galaxy

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Omega_Directive

mirrorchaos · November 2013

gogereaver wrote: »

you right they would be much worse because she was alone at the time they normally and i mean this nuke the entire place and kill everyone she couldn't call in the big guns being they where on there own.

If Picard had the Omega symbol and lead a fleet of several federation captains in the area, you think he would react worse when attempting to deal with the race that is using omega? i doubt it.

capnshadow27 · November 2013

I'm sorry but the Voth Brought V-rex's and Giant battle station/ships.

One single Omega particle can wipe out warp for a whole sector.

Voth proven to want to keep the Vermin out of their area, so wiping out warp in everywhere makes sense.

Examining it from your point of view it makes sense that way, but thats the fun of a point of view, it is all in the interpretation.

And while we may be trying to stop the Particles from getting out, we are also keeping the bloodthirsty klingons company.....

lostusthorn · November 2013

Becomming?

No, Starfleet was like that for a long time.

Ohh look a wormhole, lets see what is o the other side.
Dominion, This is out space, get lost or else.
Starfleet, lalala we can't hear you, lets poke around.
Dominion, slap in the face, wake up morons.
Starfleet, how could they! We are harmeless explorers!

smokeybacon90 · November 2013

If you took more time to read the dialogue windows rather than resting your huge ego on the F button, you'd notice that it is the Romulan Republic who have opened and are leading this entire operation with Federation and Empire assistance, since all three factions recognise the threat that Omega particles present to the entire galaxy, and all warp-capable civilizations.

Or you could come onto the forum and throw this pathetic temper tantrum.

shaanithegreen · November 2013

smokeybacon90 wrote: »

If you took more time to read the dialogue windows rather than resting your huge ego on the F button, you'd notice that it is the Romulan Republic who have opened and are leading this entire operation with Federation and Empire assistance, since all three factions recognise the threat that Omega particles present to the entire galaxy, and all warp-capable civilizations.

Or you could come onto the forum and throw this pathetic temper tantrum.

But if I don't willfully misunderstand completely obvious things, how will I be able to fight on the Internet?! :eek:

capnshadow27 · November 2013

lostusthorn wrote: »

Becomming?

No, Starfleet was like that for a long time.

Ohh look a wormhole, lets see what is o the other side.
Dominion, This is out space, get lost or else.
Starfleet, lalala we can't hear you, lets poke around.
Dominion, slap in the face, wake up morons.
Starfleet, how could they! We are harmeless explorers!

Well i think they did try and say oh sorry my bad. But thats really beside the point, you can't have exciting conflict without stepping on someones toes.....

smokeybacon90 · November 2013

reyan01 wrote: »

The Voth could be perfectly capable of harnessing Omega for all that they know.

And what's at risk? The crippling of every warp-capable civilisation in the galaxy.

Oh no, we'll just have to let the Voth play with their toys.

lordvalecortez · November 2013

Honestly I've been waiting for the Feds to wake up and admit they have been an imperialistic power for ages. And to go to a full war footing. And do lots of other things... Its a good thing I 'm not in charge of the IP... Am I secretly a Klingon? I think I need to see a therapist.

timezarg · November 2013

reyan01 wrote: »

I posted this in another thread, but since it's relevant here too:

Other issues notwithstanding, the aspect I don't like here is that Starfleet etc seem to have appointed themselves as some kind of intergalactic Police. I mean, I know how dangerous Omega is presented as being, dangerous - and the sphere contains LOTS of them - but since when did Starfleet and co get to dictate what happens in another quadrant of the galaxy, in/on a Dyson Sphere that doesn't belong to them?

You'd be surprised how often the Federation sticks its nose in the business of other civilizations, either directly or indirectly, and also conveniently looks the other way when it serves their interests (Federation-Cardassian demilitarized zone being a perfect example). And look at the Voyager series, trekkin' through the Delta Quadrant. Barely an episode goes by without Voyager interfering in the affairs of other species it stumbles across. They even managed to TRIBBLE up the Hirogen's quadrant-wide communication network, with untold effects on the Hirogen. All so they could get some bloody messages from home and feel good about it.

At least with the Klingons, they're usually honest about what their intentions are and have no hypocritical qualms about interfering with other civilizations for Klingon interests. Same with the Romulans, the REAL Romulans. . .not the pets STO has created.

meedacthunist · November 2013

Omega particles are violatile and dangerous to the point when even the Borg considers it too dangerous to play with recklessly.
It is a dire threat in ST universe.

Logically, you would do anything to stop anyone from playing with Omega particles.

As for lack of negotiation option, there are two possibilities.

There was negotiation, or at least attempt at it, but refused by Voth.

Or it's just a matter of the limitations of the game engine. Story must be linear and always end with combat.

Now, I like KDF more and I consider Federation disturbingly close to Huxley's style brand new universe, but this time they're justified. As is KDF in this matter.

reimu · November 2013

you would be surprised how many real life countries stick their noses into other countries business and then conveniently look the other way when its politically convenient the federation is not perfect but no government is the klingon empire is corrupt to the core the romulan empire is run by back stabbing and scheming

starswordc · November 2013

meedacthunist wrote: »

As for lack of negotiation option, there are two possibilities.

There was negotiation, or at least attempt at it, but refused by Voth.

THE POINT IS, NOBODY AT CRYPTIC BOTHERED TO SHOW OR TELL IT. Cryptic, I'm willing to work with you if you give me some justification for the ordnance I'm expending beyond a one-shot plot from the worst show in the canon.

EDIT: Yes, I consider Enterprise better than Voyager. At least Enterprise improved later, even though it got cancelled right after that. In some ways I consider inconsistent writing a worse sin than consistently bad writing.

Starfleet, the Imperialists?

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