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Proposal for cosmetic change of "Defeated"
radagast75
Member Posts: 333 Arc User
We all know how in series, ships that play main role in any series never get destroyed exept for rare occasions in two movies and Voyager where timetravel returned it to existence.
Now i am okay of being defeated as part of challenging gameplay but i am not okay being destroyed and killed over and over again since i am really not destroyed or killed in the end.
What i propose is that player ships never get destroyed exept in PVP. In PVE gameplay, that explosion would be changed to emergency warp to previous respawn point where you will have to wait for the duration it takes to activate that former respawn button, ship will be visually in bad shape until playable again. It would be fixed in the duration of "Defeat penalty"
This would be more immersive and fun than being exploded over and over again. For those willing to sacrifice it all, there could be new ability like "Cancel emergency warp". I imagine only Klingons would use this option ^^
In the ground it would work similarly, only exeption being that it is your crew on the ship at orbit who would beam you to previous respawn point.
This could be part of Season 9 for example.
Anyone agree? Support? Pretty please?
Now i am okay of being defeated as part of challenging gameplay but i am not okay being destroyed and killed over and over again since i am really not destroyed or killed in the end.
What i propose is that player ships never get destroyed exept in PVP. In PVE gameplay, that explosion would be changed to emergency warp to previous respawn point where you will have to wait for the duration it takes to activate that former respawn button, ship will be visually in bad shape until playable again. It would be fixed in the duration of "Defeat penalty"
This would be more immersive and fun than being exploded over and over again. For those willing to sacrifice it all, there could be new ability like "Cancel emergency warp". I imagine only Klingons would use this option ^^
In the ground it would work similarly, only exeption being that it is your crew on the ship at orbit who would beam you to previous respawn point.
This could be part of Season 9 for example.
Anyone agree? Support? Pretty please?
Captain Hunt, at your service!
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Post edited by radagast75 on
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/ahem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-aelI7fAF4
Oh, that too. My apologies and condoilences for Sisko. Still, i think if Sisko got that happen to him 10 times in one battle he would find that a bit odd ^^
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No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Ohh dont worry, the ship dies in episode 20 but it "respawns" in episode 24
This is not the point, the point is to make being defeated and after that, continuing mission more plausible and immersive.
Starfleet, KDF or Romulan Republic just cant send you new ship in couple of minutes. What's more, the absurd stuff that magically revives you and all your creew after being exploded to smithereens.
Anyway, i assume you folks enjoy all this magic revive stuff and new ship from command in 10 seconds (or less) nonsense?
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However, what would this change mean for Ramming Speed and Abandon Ship? (I did kill a Unimatrix by ramming it with my Bortasqu before..)
Personally though, I'm fairly indifferent to the proposal. If I refit a ship I may go back and retcon it as being a successor to that ship dying in a battle, but I tend to look at death in fairly abstracted terms. My immersion is already out the window when a federation player zips by in a half-assimilated Elachi ship that is spewing out torrents of polaron death at something..
They were dealing with Sideshow Bob. It's understandable.
Only if you consider a functionally different ship with a different name to be "respawning". The fact that the Sao Paolo is not the Defiant is played up quite a bit in the two EPs the ship appears in.
STO is an MMO. That means there can't be a game over. At the same time, player ships being rampantly "disabled" and "miraculously saved" over and over again is going to engender exactly the same reaction that you're having right now.
Simply put, the facts of the game necessitate some conceits. This is one of them. If you don't want to be pissed off about the respawn mechanic there is a very simple solution: don't get yourself killed.
That often comes to my mind, i just wish i could win that card game in at least one timeloop >_<
Game being MMO is tiresome excuse to do stuff like it always has done before. Beside the true term is MMORPG where the RPG part means that there is also immersive "realism" factors to cinsider. Factors that suit the setting where the game is happening.
How is being exploded many times and being miraculously respawned any better than just using emergency warp to escape the defeat situation. The latter is more plausible and realistic and would also be much less frustrating to players.
Im MMORPG that is in setting where magic is major part of game, a running to graveyard or being revived by some unknown force is perfectly plausible, it just is not so in the game where there is no magic involved.
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lol. You should see how bad my doffs are at fizzbin....
As far as your idea goes, if they put in, great, or some kind of 'disabled' mechanic so that you don't have to use full impulse to get back into the action, but in the end, I honestly never really had an issue with respawning.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I was wondering how long it would take you to play the roleplayer card...
Every single MMO has mechanics that get in the way of "immersion". That's a fact of being a limited game, and not a fictional life simulator. Either you let those limitations define how you play, or you shrug at them, ignore them, and work around them to tell your stories.
You're choosing to do the former. Do the latter.
You were defeated. Dressing it up as a "oh well you didn't really die, you just almost died. Don't worry, the next time you die you'll be magically saved again" doesn't change that fact. It wouldn't in any way make a defeat event "less frustrating".
I see what you are trying to do
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Yup i agree "it's a game" is a pretty lame excuse. With some creative thinking you can easily make STO's respawn a bit believable. And the "well just dont die then" reasoning? i'm just shaking my head here...i'm not even going to bother addressing that.
You die in WoW you fall and get spirit ressed, you die in SWTOR you are revived by a medical droid. If you died in EVE you ressed in one of your clone copies. But who says you have to die or get blown up in STO? They could take LOTRO's approach. You dont die you get "defeated" your character kneels down and is unable to continue. After the fight somebody helps you back to your feet (res). In ground it seems like this is what happens, unless of course you get disintigrated.
Someone posted a suggestions a few months or a year or so ago. Instead of your ship blowing up it gets disabled. You could make it like the Klingon ships in the last space battle on the Devidian Comet. Hull gets taken down to zero, have some dramatic effects on the screen, have some green smoke/plasma whatever leaking out and your ship kinda just floats there. A few seconds later just teleport it to the spawn area. Captain repairs are complete! and you go back in the fight.
At least it's a little more believable then getting blown up, respawn, getting blown up and respawn.
The Defiant isn't a hero ship... It's not called Star Trek - Defiant.
And thats exactly the reason why they destroyed it.
The change I would like to see, is the ability to Res in space (Similar to ground), if your team mate is disabled and the timer is up... you can send Emergency Repair Crews (5KM activation) to the disabled ship, for it to be restored (same percentages as with ground (Full shields, 25% health).
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
This indeed is what i am hoping for, i just added emergency warp there to replace teleport but i would be okay with teleport.
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It's an MMOG and for those the following rule also applies: Gameplay goes before everything.
To have the game be well playable, things like story, realism, and fitting in with the setting all get sidelined, that is also the case here.
Failing the mission requires a failure state, there is no bigger failure state then death, it's easy and it's simple, everyone understands it, you messed up and your ship went boom.
Now there is something to say for a totally disabled failure state, but then again, the enemy is out to kill you in most missions, why should they just leave you to be disabled so your crew can preform emergency repairs, that also doesn't make sense, neither does emergency warp out as when that happened in the show the enemies pretty much always gave chase.
The RPG in MMORPG should be taken with a rather large grain of salt, most MMORPG's actually have separate RP servers for the real Roleplayers amongst it's playerbase, because most players play it as a Massive Multiplayer Game with minor RPG like elements, so they can have fun with a bunch of other people.
This is why LOTRO did being efeated instead of being killed. It works well there. It shows that you dont have to get visually killed to get punishment for being defeated.
Besides it says "DEFEATED" not "KILLED" and still yoiu clearly get killed visually while text implies you got defeated.
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I just use Drones in my only Carrier player :)I am a true Gallentean pilot.
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Yeah...no. LOTRO's defeat mechanic is the way it is because their health mechanic isn't depicting the physical health of a target. Morale (as HP is called in LOTRO) represents the will to stay in a fight. It's why things like somebody screaming at you or a terrifying enemy can do "damage".
Outside of scripted events, nothing ever dies in LOTRO. They just run away in terror.
Indeed. Have you read why it was done so?
You are right about me
It never seizes to amaze me how something that is just an cosmetic change would really hurt anyone who play game just as a game. Penalty is same in both situations. It is as if some people just want to see themselves exploded to smitherens every time they fail in mission
In PVP i totally understand the dilemma. Players are there to kill other players. They want to see other being blown up. This is why i proposed that this would not concern PVP gamewplay.
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So, all this is about is the graphical representation of defeat in space combat. Imo the exploding is super silly, when you just respawn with the same ship close by after a timer. The suggestions of repairs and/or possible short debuffs 'during repairs' as a penalty seems much nicer to me and would have the similar gameplay mechanic as it is now... minus exploding the whole ship, losing whole your crew and then miraclously appearing somewhere else, all back to normal.
All in all, I see no reason for it not being possible, for altering the purely cosmetic details of "defeat" in space, if they made it possible in ground combat.
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Why can't we set our phasers to stun?
In some missions they try to dress this fact up by saying "Do anything necessary to secure 'x' system."
Meaning - KILL everything!
KDF would make sense but to a certain extent. Allow us to also capture folks and give a reward for ransom - like in Total War, after a battle. You don't simply kill those fleeing, you capture them and ask for a ransom or keep them jailed for duty officer missions.
I think the problem is that it's hard to make these specific changes or it's simply easier to brush the mechanics with one stroke.
Each faction should have an unique way of dealing things, such as the Diplomacy and Marauding differences.
I agree with the OP and would love to see some immersion. Also, a nicer warp in-out sequences would be nice. It's getting old now for extremely large ships.. where you can't see jack dung when warping.
Thanks, all i really want is just a cosmetic change to make it feel more realistic. I expect being defeated at times since i use elite difficulty but id rather have some plausible way to being defeated
I have some issues with other mechanics as well like id like to rather disable my enemies as Starfleet pilots than blow everything up and stun or nerve pinch enemies.. But one small step at the time. Perphaps we can get some options, one at a time. These are after all, minor cosmetic changes that should not affect other game mechanics. If you would like to get it further you could get some rewards for being pasifistic but that really is topic for another thread
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Yup, most MMOs at least try to make it believable.
WoW can get away with you dying and getting resurrected because its a fantasy setting. SWTOR, EVE and SWG are tech based MMOs so you have cloning and droids. I dont know how it goes in the LOTRO books, i've only seen the movies. But even though it is fantasy and has ghosts or skeletons or whatever it seems like when your average man dies they cant be resurrected. Guild Wars 2 takes an interesting approach because you die and you can res at a waypoint (or get ressed by a passerby). BUT the interesting part is you go into a defeated state where you can 'fight for your life'. You can bandage yourself, try to attack, throw rocks, arm a booby trap, i think people can heal you when you are downed. But if you arent able to get up then you die.
I think for us it should be the green plasma thing when your hull reaches 0. If nobody comes to "battle res" you or come over to repair you then some dialogue from the captain "helm back us off to a safe distance" a very quick fade out and back in to the respawn area and you continue fighting. Ground is pretty easy to do, they may just have to do away with the player getting vaporized.
I tend to pamper my ship crew (officers) to my liking, even going to write a biography for each one of them, so seeing my ship explode is kinda lame... not that it happens often mind you, ground is worse, my melee needs work...
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
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I do that as well
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