Well we care for the same reason we care when the devs make a change, it alters the game we play or in this case the metagame.
Consider, if everyone in WoW played one class, that would massively effect raids, how the devs constructed future content, how enemies would need to be balanced and a host of other issues. Well the same is true here. How players choose to play has real effects on the game, its development, new content and the culture within the game.
So lets ask the follow up questions, even if how players choose to play the game does indeed effect things why would this be a bad thing? Well simply put homogenization severely limits the game. It limits design, it limits team work, it limits play style, it limits a whole slew of design space. There is a reason classes, or at least robust multi-build skill systems, are present in so very many games.
So how does that tie into classes vs skills? Well you are kind of right here, it doesn't, at least not directly. The problem is, we're already homogenized to a great extent, which is the real root problem here. The whole motive here to remove classes is because two of them are nearly worthless right? They've got useful skills but not nearly enough for most people to actually play correct? So unless I'm way off base on that, lets talk solutions.
Removing the class structure won't fix that core problem that Science and Engineering don't stack up against DPS. Sure, it would be nice to have a few of those power to round out your build, but it would just be a lot of work on the devs part for ultimately very little change or improvement. Since some powers are clearly better than others you would just end up once again with most people playing the same or nearly the same builds. Maybe a little better than today, maybe a little worse but it wouldn't really open up the game to strong support, tank or healing rolls. Everyone would still be playing DPS focus just with one or two new tricks to give a small bump to survivability. Is it really worth making such a massive change to the game as removing a hard coded base element like classes just so you can pick up one or two useful powers if really the core issue remains broken?
Removing classes could be great as part of a larger overhaul and could really open up both game play and design options I completely agree, but on its own it just doesn't make sense to my mind. Yea if removing classes would be a quick fix, things might be different, but as a core part of the game it would be a major undertaking of time and effort. In short the way I'm looking at things it seems to me like your asking for a very expensive cure for the symptom rather than a cure for the disease.
Eh.. For me the core problem is something completely different..
Playing a Science captain takes a lot of the fun out of the game for me due to how much it breaks lore and immersion.. Not because of the gameplay..
The whole class structure makes no sense for a captain! Just take a look at how the structure actually works in Star Trek compared to STO..
STO Tactical : Captain or Security/Tactical Officer
Engineering : Captain or Engineer
Science : Captain or Medical/Science Officer (Med & Sci are no longer separate careers)
I think one of the primary goals of a Star Trek game should be to make it feel like Star Trek.. and the current class system decimates this game's ability to do so.. I'm trying to feel like a Star Trek captain, and all I'm feeling is shoehorned..
Tactical ability should be an innate prerequisite for becoming a starfleet captain, having it as optional is just too out of place..
One thing that might help is removing the Tactical class from the game..(or at least changing the name) and remove the color coding of Captain careers..
In that case, lets throw away different ship classes too,
throw all shipd 8 Weapon slots, 4/4/4 consoles, and 2/2/2 seatings for Officers.
The Class system is somewhat needed, to design challenging encounters,
do you think Blizzard is using the Tank/Heal/DPS trinity because they could not come up
with something better?
but the whole idea behind the trinity allows to tailor Boss fights and team missions,
as its is now, the whole "class" system in STO is allready washed out, which leads to:
All take scorts, and in best case you are a tac captain, so we can DPS everything down.
We just saw a refreshing way to rework the problem with "tanking" in STO (the new cruiser commands)
i rather stick to we need to divert the classes even further.
And saying "Oh but you are supposed to be a captain!"
Is not a valid argument.
You dont joinf starfleet as "Captain"
you join as Ensign, and you join within a VERY specific carrer path,
as you work your way up the ranks to FINNALY become captain, you
go trought a normal routine in your choosen carrer.
Remove classes and everything will taste like chicken.
"Starship captains are like children. They want everything right now and they want it their way. The secret is to give them what they need, not what they want."
- Scotty, to La Forge
Actually it goes back to the World of Greyhawk, the beginning of Dungeon & Dragons, Pen & Paper games. You might say it has its roots in the stories by Tolkien, where class was an integral component of feudal society, where the knowledge and privileges of a class were only available to those who were born into it.
Rock, paper, scissors can be called the first MMO since it can go back to that.
___________________
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
The Class system is somewhat needed, to design challenging encounters,
No. It is not.
do you think Blizzard is using the Tank/Heal/DPS trinity because they could not come up with something better?
I think Blizzard is using that system, because that was what they assume their players would expect. It was the system being used by EverQuest, which was the system being used by pen & Paper D&D, which was adopted from the Tolkien stories, which were set in a feudal society. It's an archaic concept, that only persists because it is traditional. And tradition for its own sake is the abandonment of creativity.
We can still have diversity among characters, without restricting them within a class structure, by using the existing character skill tree as a foundation. Abilities could be unlocked by reaching a certain level of expertise in an area of study/experience. This can allow players to specialize their build in one area of study/experience or generalize it to include rudimentary features of multiple areas of study/experience.
Making those differing abilities useful and sought after is no different than making different classes useful and sought after, but it allows the player a greater freedom in their characters development.
And Cryptic will probably SELL MORE RESPEC TOKENS, as players experiment and tweak their builds.
I think Blizzard is using that system, because that was what they assume their players would expect. It was the system being used by EverQuest, which was the system being used by pen & Paper D&D, which was adopted from the Tolkien stories, which were set in a feudal society. It's an archaic concept, that only persists because it is traditional. And tradition for its own sake is the abandonment of creativity.
We can still have diversity among characters, without restricting them within a class structure, by using the existing character skill tree as a foundation. Abilities could be unlocked by reaching a certain level of expertise in an area of study/experience. This can allow players to specialize their build in one area of study/experience or generalize it to include rudimentary features of multiple areas of study/experience.
Making those differing abilities useful and sought after is no different than making different classes useful and sought after, but it allows the player a greater freedom in their characters development.
And Cryptic will probably SELL MORE RESPEC TOKENS, as players experiment and tweak their builds.
lol I don't know if, there's a direct line of progression there, but you have a point.
You're fooling yourself if you think there would be diversity, only diversity in this game will be for the weak.
If everyone has access to everything then logically most people will pick the strongest, why do you think Escorts are so popular yet Cruisers are on the rise with A2B/Marion(Sp?)? If the A2B route wasn't so expensive I bet we would see even more of it.
Stop trying to kid yourself if you think there would be any kind of diversity that wouldn't be costly...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
If everyone's picking the same set of abilities in this proposed system then that's a game design flaw to be fixed with balance changes... If there's power discrepancies that huge they should be fixed... This isn't a revolutionary idea, plenty of games pull it off..
Blizzard moved the MMO genre in a really bad direction.. They had a giant boost right off due to their reputation and brand.. Please quit using it as an example of a "Good" MMO.. They crafted a fun game, but it was very lacking in some core MMO fundamentals.. So many people jump from game to game feeling unsatisfied because most MMO devs are following Blizzard's flawed blueprints.. x.X! Very frustrating for someone who played several MMO's pre-WoW..
Comments
Eh.. For me the core problem is something completely different..
Playing a Science captain takes a lot of the fun out of the game for me due to how much it breaks lore and immersion.. Not because of the gameplay..
The whole class structure makes no sense for a captain! Just take a look at how the structure actually works in Star Trek compared to STO..
STAR TREK
Command : Captain/First Officer or Helmsman
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Command_division
Operations : Engineer or Security/Tactical Officer
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Operations_division
Sciences : Medical Officer or Science Officer
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sciences_division
STO
Tactical : Captain or Security/Tactical Officer
Engineering : Captain or Engineer
Science : Captain or Medical/Science Officer (Med & Sci are no longer separate careers)
I think one of the primary goals of a Star Trek game should be to make it feel like Star Trek.. and the current class system decimates this game's ability to do so.. I'm trying to feel like a Star Trek captain, and all I'm feeling is shoehorned..
Tactical ability should be an innate prerequisite for becoming a starfleet captain, having it as optional is just too out of place..
One thing that might help is removing the Tactical class from the game..(or at least changing the name) and remove the color coding of Captain careers..
throw all shipd 8 Weapon slots, 4/4/4 consoles, and 2/2/2 seatings for Officers.
The Class system is somewhat needed, to design challenging encounters,
do you think Blizzard is using the Tank/Heal/DPS trinity because they could not come up
with something better?
but the whole idea behind the trinity allows to tailor Boss fights and team missions,
as its is now, the whole "class" system in STO is allready washed out, which leads to:
All take scorts, and in best case you are a tac captain, so we can DPS everything down.
We just saw a refreshing way to rework the problem with "tanking" in STO (the new cruiser commands)
i rather stick to we need to divert the classes even further.
And saying "Oh but you are supposed to be a captain!"
Is not a valid argument.
You dont joinf starfleet as "Captain"
you join as Ensign, and you join within a VERY specific carrer path,
as you work your way up the ranks to FINNALY become captain, you
go trought a normal routine in your choosen carrer.
- Scotty, to La Forge
Rock, paper, scissors can be called the first MMO since it can go back to that.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
No. It is not.
I think Blizzard is using that system, because that was what they assume their players would expect. It was the system being used by EverQuest, which was the system being used by pen & Paper D&D, which was adopted from the Tolkien stories, which were set in a feudal society. It's an archaic concept, that only persists because it is traditional. And tradition for its own sake is the abandonment of creativity.
We can still have diversity among characters, without restricting them within a class structure, by using the existing character skill tree as a foundation. Abilities could be unlocked by reaching a certain level of expertise in an area of study/experience. This can allow players to specialize their build in one area of study/experience or generalize it to include rudimentary features of multiple areas of study/experience.
Making those differing abilities useful and sought after is no different than making different classes useful and sought after, but it allows the player a greater freedom in their characters development.
And Cryptic will probably SELL MORE RESPEC TOKENS, as players experiment and tweak their builds.
lol I don't know if, there's a direct line of progression there, but you have a point.
You're fooling yourself if you think there would be diversity, only diversity in this game will be for the weak.
If everyone has access to everything then logically most people will pick the strongest, why do you think Escorts are so popular yet Cruisers are on the rise with A2B/Marion(Sp?)? If the A2B route wasn't so expensive I bet we would see even more of it.
Stop trying to kid yourself if you think there would be any kind of diversity that wouldn't be costly...
Blizzard moved the MMO genre in a really bad direction.. They had a giant boost right off due to their reputation and brand.. Please quit using it as an example of a "Good" MMO.. They crafted a fun game, but it was very lacking in some core MMO fundamentals.. So many people jump from game to game feeling unsatisfied because most MMO devs are following Blizzard's flawed blueprints.. x.X! Very frustrating for someone who played several MMO's pre-WoW..