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Don't forget us Grognards please!
therumancer23
Member Posts: 53 Arc User
I'm a pretty long time STO player, I was here for launch, came back a little before FTP fully went active, bought a lifetime subscription (and the large Legacy pack), and I'm here to at least check in for a bit nearly every day. This is to say nothing of what I've dropped in the C-Store in order to help support the game (which seems to have paid off given that we've seen some decent content upgrades even if they took longer than I would have liked).
I just wanted to say that as someone who has put time into chugging along the rep grinds on various characters, with mixed results, that as well intentioned as making things easier might be, it's not fair to those of us who put the time in and spend all those resources. Making items unlock in your store for free as you achieve tiers, a project to double rep for other characters, and similar things are all fine ideas on the surface, but it does kind of TRIBBLE people who already contributed.
I know other people have doubtlessly already said this, but I confess to still being a bit miffed over how things turned out when we went to the "Rep" system from the "Drop" system. I maintained faith in Cryptic, and to be blunt the "equivalent value" I received from all my elite STF grinding was almost a joke. Unless I missed it, I haven't even seen a suggestion of even attempting something similar for the current changes being experimented with.
At the end of the day, the game does need to move forward, but long-term players, even ones who arguably aren't very good, are still your backbone. It's great to do stuff for the comparative newbies, and to make things more approachable to those just coming into the game, but long term players shouldn't be forced to effectively lose the value of their efforts, especially seeing as this wouldn't be the first time.
I'll also say (for those that read this far) that I feel veteran rewards helped compensate for this, and sticking with the game through all it's changes and stuff. However the veteran reward program seems to have been mostly changed into a massive item package for those with lifetime subscriptions, without any continuation for lifetimers and subscribers that got it initially, never mind those who simply put in a bunch of time (and might very well have made decent numbers of C-store purchuses).
At any rate, to be blunt, I think having top end gear should take some dedication and time for any character, rather than compensation I'd much rather see newbies have to go through the grind on a per-character basis before they start getting handed endgame weapons, sets, etc... It loses meaning if it gets too easy, and to be honest I think this should be considered with the new Dysson Sphere content which Cryptic might consider actually pacing similarly to the previous reps... perhaps even making the rep more expensive on some levels because if thise Proton weapons turn out anything like the hype they will probably be better than the Romulan Plasma Disruptors you get from Rommie rep, and possibly even better than Elite Fleet grade weapons. That's not something a newbie should be cruising around with relatively easily.... of course then again I suppose the very fact that you can get Elite Fleet gear without your fleet having to have done the work (like mine did) and just provisioning does sort of undermine this argument.
I just wanted to say that as someone who has put time into chugging along the rep grinds on various characters, with mixed results, that as well intentioned as making things easier might be, it's not fair to those of us who put the time in and spend all those resources. Making items unlock in your store for free as you achieve tiers, a project to double rep for other characters, and similar things are all fine ideas on the surface, but it does kind of TRIBBLE people who already contributed.
I know other people have doubtlessly already said this, but I confess to still being a bit miffed over how things turned out when we went to the "Rep" system from the "Drop" system. I maintained faith in Cryptic, and to be blunt the "equivalent value" I received from all my elite STF grinding was almost a joke. Unless I missed it, I haven't even seen a suggestion of even attempting something similar for the current changes being experimented with.
At the end of the day, the game does need to move forward, but long-term players, even ones who arguably aren't very good, are still your backbone. It's great to do stuff for the comparative newbies, and to make things more approachable to those just coming into the game, but long term players shouldn't be forced to effectively lose the value of their efforts, especially seeing as this wouldn't be the first time.
I'll also say (for those that read this far) that I feel veteran rewards helped compensate for this, and sticking with the game through all it's changes and stuff. However the veteran reward program seems to have been mostly changed into a massive item package for those with lifetime subscriptions, without any continuation for lifetimers and subscribers that got it initially, never mind those who simply put in a bunch of time (and might very well have made decent numbers of C-store purchuses).
At any rate, to be blunt, I think having top end gear should take some dedication and time for any character, rather than compensation I'd much rather see newbies have to go through the grind on a per-character basis before they start getting handed endgame weapons, sets, etc... It loses meaning if it gets too easy, and to be honest I think this should be considered with the new Dysson Sphere content which Cryptic might consider actually pacing similarly to the previous reps... perhaps even making the rep more expensive on some levels because if thise Proton weapons turn out anything like the hype they will probably be better than the Romulan Plasma Disruptors you get from Rommie rep, and possibly even better than Elite Fleet grade weapons. That's not something a newbie should be cruising around with relatively easily.... of course then again I suppose the very fact that you can get Elite Fleet gear without your fleet having to have done the work (like mine did) and just provisioning does sort of undermine this argument.
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The fact that the Voth stuff most likely will "invalidate" most of the older Borg stuff (and therefore newbie grinds Voth rep only and is straight to "near max") that took you the requisite grind time to grab and is being invalidated requiring yet another grind?
Or is it over the new alt token system? Which means that a newbie still needs to grind out a full rep before getting alts accelerated...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
No mirror, no easy routes, just a hardcore merciless grind with forced (and really long too :P) cut-scenes and unsilencable mission detail voice overs (in the tutorial computer voice).
Only then, once you've been shown and told how to play the game by the game itself, should you be able to make alts and do end game grind.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Well, for one I do think they should be required to follow "gear tiers" and do things like the Borg grinds before being allowed to grind for even better gear. However my major point here is that when you provide the token short cuts for rep grinding alts it kind of hurts veterans who were putting in tons of resources on alts doing it the intended way. Your basically being screwed out of 50% of the resources you invested for having started it before they decided to make it easier for newbies just starting their multiple rep grinds.
But then again as I've said before, we already have an issue with newbie gear inflation due to the way that anyone can get top end fleet gear just by grinding out resources without actually having to be in a fleet that put in the time, effort, and resources. Build up requisitions, ask in a public service channel, and bam you've got just about anything. Given that Cryptic more or less put it's stamp of approval on doing this by mentioning it in a login blog, I suppose it's no big thing, but I'm increasingly wondering what the point of all the time and trouble is, when it seems my work and time investment (as far as it goes) is increasingly being invalidated.
I get making things easier for new players just coming in, but it seems like there is little respect for the players that dealt with the headaches and put in the time. When it comes to the endgame I think it shouldn't be being made easier.
Just my opinions.
This isn't my personal belief, but theoretically, dilithium input at the very least is somewhat a measurable value of a players' effort put forth, assuming you don't want to be completely anal and assign the value of your national minimum wage to time spent grinding for marks, and it can be given a very approximate monetary value.
The grind in this game is idiotic, it takes this fun game you enjoyed for the last 50 levels and turns it into this repetitive, frustrating, dull, unvaried trudge uphill. Each rep takes a minimum of 30 days, something like 1 hour per daily rep requirements in its current iteration. So you can be at the level cap for as little as a month before you've gotten access to everything in the game. That they're addressing it is a good thing.
If you're going to be a dog in the manger and whine about the injustice behind it now being a step closer to being reasonable because you gave in and made the choice to grind, don't do it at the expense of new players and those of us who specifically didn't make alts we wanted because we knew it'd mean 30+ days of work just to reach relevant status. I don't think it's fair that I can finally experiment with a science character without wasting 30 days only to find out that I don't like how his endgame is only to have that taken away because someone thinks it's not fair to them. The reality is, no matter what, it's unfair to someone, and our costs are literally equal. Either 15 days of your grind are rendered superfluous or 15 superfluous grind days are tacked on to my quota. Rep could never have been addressed in a way that didn't trip over that, and it needed to be addressed, that was a universal consensus in the community. Seriously, has there ever been a long-lived "Rep is fine, man up!" thread?
Instead, claim that your efforts have been marginalized and demand a reimbursement to the extent that they've been marginalized. If your 30 day rep grind wouldn't have had to be 30 days had you waited to start it until now, argue that you deserve a 15 day rebate of your reputation input.
Y'know, your point could be considered valid, but presenting it at the expense of your fellow players is like being the kid in class that reminds the teacher to take up the homework. Don't be that kid.
Argue for what you want at the expense of the people who took it from you, not the people who benefit from it being taken from you.
It's not like you'd have a hard time finding constituents. Unlike now, where you have to end your post begging from mercy from the (rightly) impending inferno.
No, your reward for having started it early is finishing early and having the benefit sooner. Just like buying that new plasma TV the first month it's available compared to the guy who buys it one year later at 1/10th the price.
Nothing in the game needs the gear, except for PvP or personal bragging rights. If you choose to grind, that's a choice not something the devs forced on you. If you chose to do it as fast as possible, that's also a choice, again not forced on you by the devs.
If you're not happy with your choices, then just choose differently.
Sometimes people forget this game like all MMOs is a business. Like all businesses everywhere, it relies upon a constant income stream. The adjustments forthcoming do not lessen the value of your gear and ships, OP. A Ferrari is still a Ferrari, regardless of how much sooner than myself you purchased it. If I got a discount because the dealership realized it needed to sell more Ferraris to stay in business, then I got that discount because the dealership learned from sales to previous customers it would sell more by lowering the price point or making the Ferrari easier to acquire by some other means.
pwe/cryptic looks at STO as a business, not a game. They are concerned with this week's income stream. Not last year's. Except as a way to avoid the income stream getting smaller.
Try this: Take that pair of jeans back to Wal-Mart. The ones you bought last month at US $17.95. Which are selling this month at US $16.95. Demand that Wal-Mart give you back a dollar because you purchased your jeans earlier than anyone else and you spent a lot of money with Wal-Mart about a year ago.
Alternatively, go tell your boss you are giving back the pay raise you just got because the newer employees don't make as much money as you do and it isn't fair to the company. Which should have the option to pay all of its employees exactly the same wage.
One more: Tell your customers you are cutting the price on your product or service by fifty percent and are giving this as a refund to all of last year's customers.
Really? Seriously? "Buh...buh...buh! It's Not Fair!!" One of the things I find most amusing about these forums is the vastly overdeveloped sense of entitlement which occurs in such abundance around here.
Now, a more worthy thing, instead of making the rep system "less of a grind", or need less resources to achieve. how about this:
a. I can agree with a "sponsorship token", like they're suggesting. However, the price of such, in resources and time, should be significant. In real life, when you sponsor someone in an organization, you are putting your reputation, and possibly money or other resource(s) on the line. If the new sponsored person washes out, the sponsor would tend to lose some credibility, etc. Now, in this game, there's no way for someone to wash out, or for a sponsor to have a penalty for the sponsored failing. So make the investment significant in marks, commodities, expertise, and maybe even boffs & doffs you have to give up. I won't advocate much of an increase in dilithium, as the sinks for those are already many & varied, and there's that 8k/day cap on what you can get.
b. How about making MORE STF's and FA's available, and with good difficulty levels, requiring good teamwork and communication skills to achieve? I'm pretty sure, if someone has a pick of, say 10-20 STF's to gain those marks? Along with the other activities, such as Borg Red Alerts, and a few other things that are out there.
And for Rom stuff? How about, again, making more RFA's (Romulan Fleet Actions) available to do? More variety, more things to do, do be able to gain those marks, and I'm sure it will feel like less of a "grind". And this same principle could be applied to any rep system out there. If there 's a LOT of content to do, that gains you the required marks, then there should be less complaints. (Other than the cheeseball players that just want something for no offort, and I could care less about what they want anyway)
This game, in a lot of aspects, is already extremely easy, a lot of times, overly so. If you choose to run a huge number of alternate characters, than more grinding is the choice you make, to gain those rep bonuses and items on each character.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Evidence please...? As far as I can tell the Sphere armour has a greater defence buff, at the expense of the heals and offensive boosts of the Omega sets. It would be a great shame if the current range of options in ground sets was killed off in favour of a single "ultimate" set.
The Nukara and Rom reps did a pretty good job of offering diversity without outclassing the Omega gear - Cryptic's track record is decent in this regard.