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Engineer in an Escort
freenos85
Member Posts: 443 Arc User
I recently had a heated argument about the possibility to put an engineer in an escort.
Personally i actually don't see a problem with this. The game, due to its bridge officer mechanics, is so flexible that you could make an engineering captain rival a tac-captain in overall effectiveness. He'll be probably a bit worse, but unless you want to have a perfect damage-dealer there is no reason not to try it out, or make it viable for yourself.
I'm just a litte tired to hear the argument: "Cruisers are for engies, escorts are for tacs and science vessels are solely for science captains". If that were the case, then you wouldn't actaully be able to even try.
What do you guys think?
Personally i actually don't see a problem with this. The game, due to its bridge officer mechanics, is so flexible that you could make an engineering captain rival a tac-captain in overall effectiveness. He'll be probably a bit worse, but unless you want to have a perfect damage-dealer there is no reason not to try it out, or make it viable for yourself.
I'm just a litte tired to hear the argument: "Cruisers are for engies, escorts are for tacs and science vessels are solely for science captains". If that were the case, then you wouldn't actaully be able to even try.
What do you guys think?
Post edited by freenos85 on
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Whe we first launched i used solely engineers in scorts. It can be prety effective in some cases.
No you wont deal as much damage as a tac during an alpha, but you do have 2 skills that can increase your dps potential. So it way balance out.
In the end it doesent matter what any one else thinks as long as you have fun.
Nay sayers gonna nay say.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
equal parts cynical and helpful
some combinations however are just idiotic or inferior...tac in a starcruiser for instance. Why? you take a low dps/support/tank cruiser and combine it with a high dmg class...putting this combination in some mediocre level where it neither does good/sufficent dmg nor has enough survivability for actually tanking or holding aggro. Ofcourse some people can make those combinations work...but average joe is meant to fail.
Any one with any sense and a rudimentary knowledge of the game is going to realize an escort is built for dealing DPS, the captain doesn't matter as much as the BOFF layout. Outside of that yes, TAC captains do more DPS, ENG captains are more tanky (in anything they fly), and SCI captains also work (sorry less experience with playing a SCI). Too many people play STO with a min/max attitude and BALANCE is considered sub par. My eng wouldn't even attempt group play without being in an escort, else i'd be constantly hearing about my crappy DPS.
But what exactly was the oposing arguments?
I just don't like to pop as often, as other people do, who then are basically wasting time waiting to respawn. But seriously a specialized build ...
I mean even with 2 threat-reducing consoles from the embassy i still sometimes draw aggro. I have to be prepared to heal incoming damage and stay alive, at least for a small amount of time.
Engies on the other hand bring their own healing abilities and can sacrifice a boff-heal in favor of a more damage oriented ability. But they just wouldn't listen.
So pls look into Escort-threads to make your escort a DD. I find it astounishing how people can use escorts and do less damage than a single carrier pet.
For PvP, if you are pugging up, engiscort is a good way to play since you can put a constant pressure on your opponents (more so than in a cruiser), while also able to tank and keep yourself alive to some extent. This is especially true in a fed pug, where 8 out of 10 times your pug is made up of wanna-be heroes who want to pwn everything under the sky and have no concept of teamwork, and you would be a fool to hope for a heal or two thrown your way every so often. I have won plenty of matches for my team in pug v pug matches in my engiscort.
For a pre-made PvP group though, I'm not really sure if it will fit into the concept since a pre-made is inherently built for team-play so min-max concept really applies here. By definition, an engiscort is not min-max. I would think engiscorts are slightly unfavorable/unndesirable here.
Elite Defense Stovokor
That is only because the game is skewed so badly towards DPS being the only thing that matters.
The sad truth is this: If you are a Tactical Captain, any ship is fine. If you fly an Escort, any captain is fine.
That is just the world we live in.
It really used to be the case. Sooooo...um....yah. That got changed, but nothing else was changed to actually make it a good idea to do it.
Basically, you lose three damage buffs. And it is a large and substantial amount and it isn't just burst damage.
You gain essentially nothing any longer. Doff's have easily replaced engineers superior power management. Just as doffs have replaced tacticals inherent cooldown reduction.
Just doffs haven't replaced alpha yet.
Sure it can be done and if you were just jonesing to try it out go ahead. Just the way the games built now, outside of 'for the fun of it' there's no compelling reason to do so.
How so? The only doff i can think of would be the Warp Core Engineer and that is only a percentage based chance. Doff space is limited and personally i could think of more fitting ones to put into my active space slots.
Damage Control Engineers + Warp Core Engineers can very easily compete with the engineer EPS ability.
Engscorts have added survivability and better power management. Any real advantage over a tacscort? Other than MW and RSF, not really. And those abilities don't really compensate for APA and FOMM and GDF and TI.
It's not necessarily better or worse so much as different.
Ah ok your getting it now. Engineers bring power management. Tacs don't. Tacs can supplement thier power management with doffs to a greater degree than even simply being an engineer would give them. Engineers can't supplement thier damage abilites with doffs to anywhere close to what Tacs can do for themselves.
And as we're discussing the relative merits of engineers vs tacs in escorts that's where we're at.
So that being the topic, what more fitting doffs did you have in mind and how do they relate to it?
And just to go back in time, there was a point before doffs and dual system batteries that an engy in an escort wasn't profoundly held back. Power management is a key component and there was a time when only engineers brought that. That day is past.
Judging for the Tac skills on my klingon toon, perhaps my engscort cannot match the fire power of a Tac-escort but i pump out good damage and survive to tell about it.
I think engineer is viable for all ship classes.
Really for PvE anything other than Tac/Scort is sub-optimal. That said their are varying degrees of sub-optimal that may or may not be acceptable to each player.
So in an optimal game enviroment you would only see Tacs in Escorts. That is plain boring. But i agree with the level of acceptance, which varies with different players. Thank whatever deity you may pray to, that not everybody is a min-maxer.
K, to give you a baseline. I like to fly with a torp in my escort (because all cannon-boats are boring, even though they may deliver better DPS). I'm only talking about PvE. I don't expect to be better than a Tac in an Escort, but hope to come close.
Why would i not roll an engineer. There's also ground combat to consider. I won't create two seperate characters just to experience one side of gameplay with each. Plus i don't want to be a tank, since DPS is pretty much all that matters in PvE anyway. So i'd rather be a sub-optimal (but hopefully somewhat good) escort captain, then fly some lumbering giant.
The only power level i would be majorly concerned with, would be weapons-energy. Everything else can be easily boosted via different (non-doff) means. So maintaining high weapons energy isn't really a problem either.
They don't, at least not in the way of direct combat strenght (well most of them don't).
But i'd like some other doffs in my escort.
Like the new Entertainer that reduces the targets perception.
Or the Energy Weapons Officer that strips buffs off your target.
Or Projectile doffs for my romulan torps.
Or Shield Distribution Officers for another shield heal.
Even the new Systems Engineer that gives you a lesser Nadion Inversion like effect if you use Directed Energy Modulation.
So many possibilities.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
but in pvp, of all the ship and captain combos, an eng scort is the worst. there should eventually come a time to every escort pilot were they figure out that simply trying to be a DPS hose with high pressure damage isn't getting them anywhere, and that their only useful function is to get a kill, and get it as quickly and efficiently as possible. this is also were the eng scort pilot realizes that he has hit a dead end. just being a really hard to kill escort actually accomplishes precociously nothing, because at the same time you arent any good at killing. a tanky escort is one of the easiest things to pull of anymore, with doffs and passives and the freedom from all ill effects APO gives, escorts have it easy in the staying alive game. until they stop or slow down.
an eng escort is NEVER going to kill something in less then 10 seconds, in the space of an alpha strike. thats as far as you have to go, it does not need to be expanded on beyond this, eng scort has failed on the launch pad. you can ether pull off a fast kill, or your just throwing damage into the cross healing ether, and accomplishing exactly nothing.
Hello Enginer in wells my friend has one :O... Not sure if that's escort but he does really well in it and does a lot damage .. You should challenge him..
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
also wells is not an escort, not by a longshot...it is a 100% sci vessel. and by combining engi with sci vessels, you actually get a pretty good combo for pvp. CC abilities of sci vessels are great in pvp, and the extra heals, and basically endless power in all subsystems is just awesome.
as drunk pointed out, you either can do a lot of burst, or you can disturb enemies with your abilities. engi in escort has neither. Although for me engi escort is the only way to play the class in PVE.
engi in PVP isn't the first choice anyway regardless of ship, because sci and tac just bring far better abilities to the match.
subnuke is basically essential, and so is APalpha and fire on my mark and sensor scan.
the best defense in PVP is offense.
Ah ok thanks yeah he does so well with it
yeah but he is really good man give him a change
I think you are 100% correct.
Tacticals in Escorts are great... If you want a Glass Cannon. Seriously... I have done that and it is glorious for the few seconds you live and then you get to wait to respawn.
Engineers in Cruisers cannot deal damage to save their lives. They can tank like a DEMON but beyond that they are worthless.
Science officers on the other hand can do nicely in Science ships but they can also be a terrifying sight in an Escort.
Balancing what each ship offers and what each Captain offers I have generally found that this is how it goes:
Tacticals do best in Cruisers, Carriers, and some of the tougher Science Vessels. In these roles their boosts really shine.
Engineers do best in flimsy Science Vessels and Escorts where their massive boost to energy and tanking really come in handy and keep the pressure on.
Science Captains do great in Science Ships, Carriers, and Escorts where their support skills and their various debuffs/buffs can really play havoc with the enemy while keeping your team alive.
well you have to see my friend pvp in wells.. as engineer he is really good... he got skills to do damage and stay alive this is what I don't judge classes because I seen some impressive players.. .. This is why I don't pvp rofl it turns you into something that makes people completive and they forget its a game