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Quad Cannon late game usefulness
achronus
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I have read here, the Wiki, in game comments, and there (the rest of the internet via search) that basically the Quad cannons are inferior to the in game lvl 50 content readily available in the rep sys or fleet.
I have a couple of suggestions that would allow this to be remedied without rendering them overpowered.
Option one:
- Post the player getting access to high level fleet holdings allow the player to upgrade the Cannons
Option two:
- Once level 50 allow the player to use the Lobi store to perform a trade up (much as you can with Jem'Hadar gear)
Option Three:
- Same as above but through the use of the Tier 5 Rep Sys
Now the upgrades...
(Note due to the means of accessing these upgrades it is possible to implement more than one, the player would have to reacquire the base quad cannon and pay for the different upgrade however; also more than one of the above options could be implemented by this method)
Ideas include:
- Upgrade to Quad heavy cannons
- Increased power efficiency (I doubt going to no cost in energy would be fair)
- Addition of secondary Proc (SelfH, energy drain, disruptor proc on non disruptor, nanite proc, phaser proc on non phaser, other procs?, more than one of these as options?)
- Upgrade to a wider cone of fire
Each of these options have merits and problems.
I doubt I am fully aware of the game ramifications of any of the above.
I simply feel that the fact that some thing as incredibly awesome as Quad cannons being relegated to "Don't buy, waste of time/money/effort" is a complete disservice to the idea.
I have a couple of suggestions that would allow this to be remedied without rendering them overpowered.
Option one:
- Post the player getting access to high level fleet holdings allow the player to upgrade the Cannons
Option two:
- Once level 50 allow the player to use the Lobi store to perform a trade up (much as you can with Jem'Hadar gear)
Option Three:
- Same as above but through the use of the Tier 5 Rep Sys
Now the upgrades...
(Note due to the means of accessing these upgrades it is possible to implement more than one, the player would have to reacquire the base quad cannon and pay for the different upgrade however; also more than one of the above options could be implemented by this method)
Ideas include:
- Upgrade to Quad heavy cannons
- Increased power efficiency (I doubt going to no cost in energy would be fair)
- Addition of secondary Proc (SelfH, energy drain, disruptor proc on non disruptor, nanite proc, phaser proc on non phaser, other procs?, more than one of these as options?)
- Upgrade to a wider cone of fire
Each of these options have merits and problems.
I doubt I am fully aware of the game ramifications of any of the above.
I simply feel that the fact that some thing as incredibly awesome as Quad cannons being relegated to "Don't buy, waste of time/money/effort" is a complete disservice to the idea.
Post edited by achronus on
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Comments
I'd love to have an upgrade, or better yet the option to have pairs of them on future designs along with a boost to thier abilities - perhaps an ultra elite fleet version.
As a bonus, they are also scaling weapons, which means they can also be TRIBBLE at every level, as being lower level will reduce their damage even more.
So, bad mods, bad power mechanics, bad base damage, and self-nerfing. There is really no positive selling point here.
However, they are simply too bad as they are.
A slight buff to make them on par with dual heavy could be good. Maybe slightly less powerful.
However, they are considerably worse than even the basic stuff you can get off the Exchange for cheap-as-free.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I agree and understand that there are better weapons available, but I do just fine with my quads. It bugs me that they drain engine power, but do I really see a difference in my speed or maneuverability? Not really. Does my DPS suffer? Yes, but again, how much does it suffer and how noticeable is it? My quad-equipped fleet Defiant consistently has placed first or second in CC, I have no trouble shredding a borg cube, and my parses are still on par with my other ships and other players around me. And I don't really PvP, so no loss there.
I do wish they were up to snuff with other weapons though. I like some of the ideas the OP had. A fleet version could be created that wouldn't overpower them, and the Lobi idea is an excellent one as well. Look at it this way Cryptic, you could actually make money off this. A lot of people would go to great lengths to obtain a better version of the quads that doesn't get laughed at. A Defiant isn't a Defiant without quads, IMO.
An idea for the the Quads:
Sphere Tech used to improve on the weapon systems power eff (Seriously pulling 20 power from ship systems?... yeah it is half engine power but still.)
Special added Proc on the Weapon: Disorienting assault.
Reduces target's accuracy rating as their ship/shields are pummeled by the unending rain of cannon fire.
Logically this is an upgrade of the base quads, using the high power systems of the sphere to template the power feeds to them. The damage of the Quads would be unaffected; merely the firing ship would be able to use them with less power problems and allow the storm to more fully reach it's intended "Rain of Fire" like proportions.
This is true.
This is also true...
They are ofc, very inferior statwise to all other endgame weapons
But mount them for the same reason id use dual cannons (instead of all dual heavys) on certain ships : firing ports !
(duals and quads tend to use a lot of firing locations that DHCs will never fire from)
Namely, they have even more burst potential than DHCs and their projectile velocity is noticeably faster - meaning Quads are excellent at popping small, priority targets (like targetable weapons and frigates/support craft).
Their main drawbacks, however, are that they do not nice play nicely with other energy weapons due to their abnormal firing cycle(which is more an issue with the actual weapon drain mechanics, in my opinion) and that they indirectly expose you to more damage while firing(less engine power leading to less defense value). They're best used on ships that can either afford to overload weapon power or on ships running fewer energy weapons(hybrid torpedo boats).
unless you consider white MK X weapons good enough(after all, you can even do elites with white weapons), then i guess they're.
My question is, does Engine power level boost/supplement their performance somehow as well, or is it just an engine power drain.
They don't. The added power drain is simply to reflect the fact that the USS Defiant suffered from major power issues initially which is what delayed the program for so long.
It's Cryptic's attempt to be canon, without actually being canon with their quad cannons.
Can anyone test this? if they do then perhaps they aren't quite as bad as everyone thinks; we've just been using them wrong.
lordkundo, please read the stat card.
They pull 10 engine power AND 10 weapon power.
Basically they are a Dual cannon with an extra dmg modifier for 10 extra (engine) subsystem power use; unless they have some bonus from engine power levels.... they kinda suck.
Little bit more damage, TWICE the power cost.
the problem lies in the damage multiplier [dmg]x4, bleh! awful. it's reasonable using the tactical escort refit for captain rank but after this it losses any real effectiveness due to the horrible bonus multiplier. if had a base of critd and crith x2 in both cases, it would be far more useful.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
It seems like some people haven't used them and they don't have the ability to use a parser.
I have two ships that I have mounted them on, primarily for aesthetic reasons and in PvE they don't fall far behind Adv. DHCs. You can get them to 100% hit rate and on average, over the course of almost a dozen STFs, they came out ~30 DPS lower than the Adv. Fleet DHCs I mounted on the same ship.
If you take the overall performance of the ship, it'd improve it's damage by 0.44%, single target over the course of an average ISE, if I swapped them out.
The only real downside is the engine drain. So, yes, they are viable in STOs endgame, at least in PVE.
Quad Heavy Cannons? +1
I don't call the quad cannons inferior by any means though. Their damage output is slightly higher than Dual Heavies of the same type. I can show you a parse if you want, but basically, my quad phaser cannon puts out (consistently) 1.2-2.0% more DPS than my dual heavy cannon whether it is first or second on the firing order. Now, it also only uses 10 power vs 12 (at the cost of some engine power) and seems to be on the same firing cycle as the dual heavy cannons (it fires 4x where a dhc fires 2x a cycle, but the cycle seems to be the same length (approx 2 seconds). I'll have to confirm that bit though, but every time I glance down at the weapon's window, the entire front row of cannons is always on cool-down together which leads me to believe that a) they are on the same timer, or b) the timer is evenly divided (2x,4x,8x, etc) to land on the same cooldown every time I look.
The point is though, the parses seem to indicate that either they have bumped them up a little and added a stealth modifier (critD 10 or something) or the damage was tuned slightly at some point.
To be clear, about 5 months ago, when I was using them, they parsed lower every time (about 4-6% lower). I'm not sure if this is due to some change to my captain that would only effect this cannon and not my DHC's or if cryptic has done something already to them.