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Star Trek and Star Wars?
westx211
Member Posts: 42,334 Arc User
Why is it that many fans of either of these tend to hate the other? I love both franchises and can't seem to grasp why a lot of people hat the other one.
And please no trolls who are only like "Star wars sucks" is their whole argument.
And please no trolls who are only like "Star wars sucks" is their whole argument.
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Seriously, though, I got nothing, apart from, if there's one thing fandoms like to ***** about more than the thing they're fans of, it's the thing other people are fans of.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Sure, they both are massive, decades old franchises that have "Star" in the title. And sure, they both take place in space. But the similarities really end there.
Star Trek is pseudo-sci fi. Star Wars is a space fantasy.
So to me, it makes perfect sense that someone might love one but hate the other. Star Wars has more in common with Lord of the Rings than it has with Star Trek.
I know plenty of sci fi fans who love Star Trek, but aren't into Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. That makes sense to me, because Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are about heroes, magic, good and evil, and high adventure.
Star Trek is about the future and exploration and science (sort of).
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for some reason people tend to adopt that them vs us attitude to sci-fi.
i dont agree with that, and im not quite sure why people tend to lump star wars as space fantasy.
ok, so it has the force which people often see as 'magic'. thats pretty much where the fantasy ends though and even that has a very loose scifi explanation from episode 1 to try to move away from magic.
star treks has time travel, mind reading, ESP, not to mention Q who can do anything and they are all borderline fantasy with some loose scif-fi explanation.
Before playing STO, I never watched Trek before - but not because of some childish hate or whatsoever, but because when I was a teenager, they had aired the show at ridiculous hours and could not thus, watch it. And, I've then kind of missed on Trek because of watching other shows, like Stargate series and because I generally prefered gaming than just watching TV shows. But, then my friend brought me to this game like three weeks ago, so I wanted to catch on the Trek lore. So, I like both Star Wars and Star Trek (Although in Trek, I am at the end of season 3 of TNG, so have a lot to watch yet
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
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Star Trek at least makes an attempt to, with creative license, idealize a real human future. The characters are very real, the stories are wonderfully thought out moral parables, the writing is superb. Star Trek is optimistic, realistic, emotionally powerful, sometimes funny, relatively technically sound, and doesn't rely on needless violence or action to drive the story.
Star Wars is a story about aliens in space who shoot at eachother and swing laser swords. Star Trek is a story about the potential of humanity, and those humans who face the problems of our future. The latter appeals to me, the former is hollow.
Here's the plot of Star Wars:
A princess is kidnapped by an evil wizard, but she manages to put a message in a bottle. That message is found by a farmboy. The farmboy gives the message to an old wizard. The wizard explains to the boy that he (the wizard) used to be a knight and that the boy's father was a knight as well.
Together they hire a pirate to take them on his ship to deliver the message the king (the princess's father). On the way, they come across the evil wizard's fortress so they decide to rescue the princess.
While at the fortress, the evil wizard and the good wizard get into a sword fight and the evil wizard kills the good wizard. But it doesn't end there because the good wizard's ghost comes back to help the farmboy.
They rescue the princess, then go back to destroy the evil wizard's fortress. Ultimately, the only way the boy is able to do it is by using magic.
Now I'll admit that it's silly to suggest Star Wars doesn't have a connection to sci fi. It has space ships, light speed, and so forth. But at its core, Star Wars is about knighthood, chivalry, princesses, wizards, and a boy learning to use magic to overcome an all encompassing evil. It even exists in a an ancient, far away land that doesn't adhere to the laws of physics.
That's fantasy, and I love it.
I'd much rather watch movies and read books about chivalry and magic than human arrogance and manipulating everything and everyone around them to benefit humans.
Space ships are a plus.
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No, Star Trek doesn't always adhere to the laws of physics, but it pretends to (within its own reality). That's why I called it pseudo-sci fi. Star Trek isn't realistic sci fi and sometimes it's not even good sci fi, but it's definitely sci fi.
Star Wars doesn't even try to be. It doesn't want to be sci fi. It wants and tries to be fantasy in space.
Now, I love both Star Wars and Star Trek, but if I had to pick one, I'd pick Star Wars. But that's just because I like fantasy tales of heroes accomplishing great and impossible deeds. Just personal preference. That's also why I prefer the TOS over TNG. Kirk and his crew are much closer to classic mythological heroes than Picard and his bunch.
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
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Star Trek, however, is the universe I wish I lived in. I can never get enough of it.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
star wars has many flaws yet its fans are so protective over the lore its scary when both chewie and mara jade were killed off there were death threats to the writers and many fans blame GL for the many inconsistencies of the prequel trilogy (hell head over to The Old Republic Forums and you will see what i mean), for me star wars is fun and has a great lore with almost everything no matter how small having a complex back story.
Star Trek is a hope for what our future could become it was more or less conceived as a way to tell the troubles of our time in a separate environment ( the Race in TOS who hated each other simply because one was black on the right side springs to mind) and although that kind of moral story telling faded somewhat as time went by the show still has that cant we all get along mentality at its core. Yet many fans of Star Trek seem to miss that meaning when you look on ESD homophobic comments can appear quite often which seems daft for people playing a mmo set in a Universe where people no longer judge each other on there differences.
So my point is that many fellow geeks will have different taste's to sci-fi (i myself didn't like Babylon 5) and cant seem to see why others hate what they hold so dear.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
Because when lightning bolt throwing warrior-priests in robest start fighting each other with swords that it's a lot more fantasy than SF.:)
SW uses its SF setting to tell a fantasy story while Star Trek is actually rooted in SF adventure, similar to the old westerns.
OT: I like both and have reference books and novels from both on my shelves.
However it feels that a lof of the Star Wars material is very repetitive...sadly.
Unlike Q snapping his fingers and taking the crew to Sherwood forest?
Q was not a focal point of the series, unlike the Jedi without whom the entire mythos of the franchise would not work.
Jedi are more like Vulcans in that they are an integral part of the show from the beginning.
Also, you don't actually need an SF setting to tell most of the story of the Jedi/Sith conflict. You could transplant it into pretty much any other setting. While the reverse is true for Q: without an SF backdrop he does not make sense.
Tell that to Sarda of 8-Bit Theater. Basically the same guy, albeit without the "testing humanity" angle Q sometimes had, except set in Final Fantasy I.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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I've read that book many years ago and it is awesome:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Physics_of_Star_Trek
Star Trek is more in the range of Isaac Asimov's view of science fiction. It has a strong philosophical core.
Star Wars is pure entertainment. Which rocks in its own way.
Many shows have different cores. I've just finished going though my old Farscape DVDs... now that was a messed up series!! As opposed to Battlestar Galactica who's more drama than Si-Fi. You take what you need in all those shows. I love them all.
- Scotty, to La Forge
trek all but trek V and 2 TNG movies such as inserection and nemesis
star wars? all the prequels
I liked episode one but the jar jar character killed it
Irrelevant how much a part they played. they are there. The jedi use what could be conceived as magic but is actually microscopic lifeforms to control reality around them.
the Q basically evolved into Gods. Either one can be loosely explained by science, or totally steeped in fantasy.
Vulcans can fight with incredible speed, the ocompa can move things with their mind, the ferengi use energy weapons. Nothing in star wars would be out of place in trek with the right story.
It is set in a sci-fi world which is all that matters. Yes it would easily fit into a fantasy story but star trek could easily be set in a fantasy world too. with the federation being the human empire, the vulcans being elves, the klingons being orcs, the borg being the undead hord etc.
Jackson: "Military intelligence."
O'Neill: "Contradiction in terms."
I have a feeling that the Star Trek vs Star Wars rivalry comes down to one thing: They both start with the word Star, and both end with a four letter, one syllable word after it.
That's literally all they have in common. They're completely different franchises with completely different goals in both format and storytelling. There is no reason someone can't be a fan of both.
Whether you prefer lightsabers or firing phasers, proton or photon torpedoes, force fields or The Force, jumping to warp or hyperspace, the simple truth is that I've never met a Star Trek fan that would not line up for some good Star Wars, and vice versa.
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system Lord Baal is dead
PLEASE...do not invoke...um, that channel which should not be named. I'm not even certain you need to say it three times before they destroy something good.
And no, there is no law in that regard. Those that try to trash one or the other are choosing a rather petty course of action.
I like both, and Stargate, Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica (the original version), Firefly, Lost in Space, and just about everything else that's come around. Even something as off-the-wall goofy as Krofft's Lost Saucer (wow, really putting a date stamp on myself). I don't feel any of them hit a mark of perfection, some parts I loath, but overall I still enjoy their creativity and effort.
ok i fixed it for ya and i love BSG remake all of the Stargate's but SGU and Firefly as well other are a bit before my time
system Lord Baal is dead
If I were to order them from best to worst it'd go:-
ST:TOS era movies
DS9
Star Wars original trilogy
TOS
TNG
ENT
TNG era movies
Star Wars prequel trilogy
VOY
The holiday special isn't on the list, because even putting it at the bottom is still too good for it.
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I'm curious as to which 3 Star Wars movies you love
I've also been a longtime fan of Star Trek, starting with watching all those TOS reruns in the early 80s when I came to the United States. VOY and ENT dropped off for me, but I did see every movie. I do wish the TNG crew had a better sendoff instead of Nemesis. The TOS guys had a great one with Undiscovered Country. But Nemesis came from a period of Trek when it has gotten stale.
"Star Trek" is also starting to become a problem.
As a result of being exposed to other types of science-fiction, I have started to grow away from both franchises. "Stargate", "Firefly/Serenity", "Farscape", "Caprica", "Ghost in the Shell", and "Defiance" have altered my perspective of science-fiction.
I saw the French science-fiction movie "Chrysalis", and it drastically changed my view of the genre. "Chrysalis" brought me up to the edge of change. "Serenity" told me to take a gigantic leap. After the sudden change in heart, I began watching alternative science-fiction films.
I feel myself slipping with "Star Trek". I hate the motions I am going through.
My interest in "Star Trek" will diminish sooner than later.
Its just a matter of time.
(1) Serenity
(2) Chrysalis
(3) Blade-Runner
(4) Caprica
(5) Stargate: SG-1
(6) Underworld
(7) Dune
(8) Highlander
(9) Star Trek (Prime Movies)
(10) Star Wars (Novels)
My 'old' top ten perspective:
(1) Star Trek (Prime Movies)
(2) Star Wars (Prequel Movies)
(3) Star Wars (Novels)
(4) Stargate (Movie)
(5) Total Recall
(6) Terminator I
(7) Terminator II
(8) Back to the Future Trilogy
(9) The Crow
(10) Highlander