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Defense not Stacking
virusdancer
Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
Release Notes: October 3, 2013
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12672871
While it's great that the +Stealth stacking issue was fixed (nerfed/+Defense added back in March, fine through LoR, broken some time after LoR)...the +Defense was added because of that change to the +Stealth mechanics on the BOFFs back in March.
There was no mention that the +Def would no longer stack and the notes even specifically state that it will still stack.
It doesn't.
Elusive Trait (+10%)
9 Maneuvers (+15%)
24+ Impulse (+45%)
Gets you to a base of +70% on a Warbird (they do not have the +10% Escort Bonus).
Aegis Engine (+5%) takes you to +75%.
Captain Infiltrator (+2.5%) and 3x Subterfuge (+7.5%, +2.5% each) should take you to +85%, but it takes you to +80%. Infiltrator stacks with a single Subterfuge. The two other Subterfuge are not stacking. Subterfuge +Def no longer stacks.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12672871
- Subterfuge
- The Stealth bonus granted no longer stacks.
- Only the highest bonus will apply.
- The Defense bonus still stacks.
While it's great that the +Stealth stacking issue was fixed (nerfed/+Defense added back in March, fine through LoR, broken some time after LoR)...the +Defense was added because of that change to the +Stealth mechanics on the BOFFs back in March.
There was no mention that the +Def would no longer stack and the notes even specifically state that it will still stack.
It doesn't.
Elusive Trait (+10%)
9 Maneuvers (+15%)
24+ Impulse (+45%)
Gets you to a base of +70% on a Warbird (they do not have the +10% Escort Bonus).
Aegis Engine (+5%) takes you to +75%.
Captain Infiltrator (+2.5%) and 3x Subterfuge (+7.5%, +2.5% each) should take you to +85%, but it takes you to +80%. Infiltrator stacks with a single Subterfuge. The two other Subterfuge are not stacking. Subterfuge +Def no longer stacks.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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I can confirm that this is sadly the case. Following today's patch, with all of my BOFFs in place, 4 Romulans and 1 Reman...all with Subterfuge...my defense reads 80.1. I can remove all of my Romulan BOFFs, and leave just one lonely Reman with Superior Infiltrator and Subterfuge...my defense reads steady at 80.1. If I replace all of my Romulan BOs...4 of them...and remove my Reman, my defense score drops to 76.4, because of the loss of the Superior Infiltrator trait from my Reman BO. If I remove all BOs, my defense reads 73.9. Clearly, +Defense is no longer stacking from the Subterfuge trait. Yesterday, my defense, with all of these same BOFFs, was 92.6! It seems that something else may be wrong as well, because if I add 12.5 (5 x 2.5 for subterfuge on my BOFFs) and 3.8 for my Reman BOs Superior Infiltrator, to today's base (with no BOs slotted) of 73.9, that only adds up to 90.2. In any case, Subterfuge got borked today! I hope that they fix it soon!
need more good programmers?
It's not a nerf when the notes explicitly state that it should stack. It's a bug.
And again, the +Def was the give part of the give/take that took place with removing the +Stealth stacking and +Stealth as a % instead of flat number that took place back in March.
And again, Warbirds do not have the +10% Escort Bonus.
Elusive (+10%)
9 Maneuvers (+15%)
24+ Impulse (+45%)
Escort (+10%)
3x Embassy Sub BOFFs (+7.5%)
= +87.5%
Elusive (+10%)
9 Maneuvers (+15%)
24+ Impulse (+45%)
5x Romulan Sub BOFFs (+12.5%)
Captain Infiltrator (+2.5%)
= +87.5%
But wait, VD - you went with 5x Rom Sub instead of 5x Rem Sub/Sup Infil...try that out. Okay, sure...you'd be looking at 106.5% Bonus Defense. For each Rom Sub/Sup Op you give up for that Rem Sub/Sup Infil, you're giving up +2% CrtH, +5% CrtD, and the recharge reduction on Cloaking.
What's the difference in To-Hit between that 87.5% and 106.5%? Say the person had Accurate (+10%), 9 Targeting (+15%), [Acc]x3 weapons (+30%)...+55% Bonus Accuracy.
@87.5%...75.5% to-hit.
@106.5%...66% to-hit.
+19% Defense resulted in a -9.5% to-hit.
But wait, that's unbuffed. Let's cloak 'em!
@137.5...54.8% to-hit.
@156.5...49.6% to-hit.
+19% Defense resulted in a -5.2% to-hit.
And again, you're giving up the +2% CrtH, +5% CrtD...
Sure, I agree it's problematic when you drop a Rom/Rem in a lockbox or cloned ship - cause the Rom/Rem crew will be superior than the Fed/KDF crew. That's a separate issue though. The Warbirds do not have the +10% Escort Bonus Defense...doesn't matter if you're in a T'varo, Dhelan, Mogai...there's no bonus. The +Def stacking is part of that balance for those ships. That lockbox ships are fubar...that I can make the joke that the R'Mor are more better than the Wells/Korath - is a separate issue, no?
But in the end, the /epicfacepalm comes from the patch notes stating specifically that the +Def will stack - and - it no longer stacking.
Verifying that the Defensive Bonus is not stacking. 3 of 3 Captains using at least 2 Romulan Bridge Officer with Superior Subterfuge trait (+3.8% defense)...only +3.8% bonus to defense.
Regards,
Yes. But:
Stating something will be functioning, not testing it before holodeck patch and then wondering it is not functioning should not be the way to go.
Pretty incompetent if you ask me.
I agree that this bug is bad and its history a bit embarassing but I wouldn't necessarily conclude incompetence. We don't know how many programmers there are or what their workload is like.
Having done programming work I can tell you that bugs sometimes get out because you don't have time to fix them. Even if you know they're there and flag them to whoever is in charge they will push something into release anyway. It annoyed the BLEEP out of me to have imperfect work of mine thrust out into the world but there was nothing I could about it short of working unpaid overtime and no-one should be expected to do that.
Programmers may also not have the freedom to prioritise their own work. If their manager tells them to ignore particular bugs or bugs in general to work on something else instead then that's what they'll generally do.
Not saying it isn't incompetent programmers. Maybe it is. Just pointing out that the problem could lie elsewhere.
Definitely.
Claiming something in the release notes which isn't true is a QA problem. STO's trait stacking seems very messy and prone to this sort of error. It should have been checked more carefully.