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An amusing thought about balance:

mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited September 2013 in PvP Gameplay
I just had this thought occur to me a couple minutes ago:

Romulans ARE balanced everyone. There's no need to fuss about them since they are balanced in regards to each other!

While Fed and KDF are balanced too. They're balanced in regards to themselves, and to the other faction.

See? So there's no problem with Romulans. Everyone is balanced still. :P
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Post edited by mimey2 on

Comments

  • stevehalestevehale Member Posts: 437
    edited September 2013
    Brilliant!!!! Keep an eye out for any openings in Cryptic's bureau of misinformation. :D
    __________________________________________
    Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
    It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
    May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Wells w/5x Leadership
    Korath w/5x Pirate
    R'Mor w/5x Sub & Sup Op

    Obviously they're not meant to be balanced against each other!
  • ussboleynussboleyn Member Posts: 598 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Your logic is undeniable.

    /\
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    stevehale wrote: »
    Brilliant!!!! Keep an eye out for any openings in Cryptic's bureau of misinformation. :D

    I thought he was already part of the Ministry of Truth :D
    Wells w/5x Leadership
    Korath w/5x Pirate
    R'Mor w/5x Sub & Sup Op

    Obviously they're not meant to be balanced against each other!

    Very well said virus.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • theeishtmotheeishtmo Member Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    This actually brings me to a question I have yet to get a good answer on:

    What is "balance?" Especially in the PvP arena where player skill and knowledge plays such a strong role in fights.

    There's always a desire for balance, but never really a definition of what that should mean.
    I know there is a method but all I see is madness.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    [Q] In PvE ? the science abilities are useless and the tanking role is obsolete. A team of 5 escorts(or similar ships of the tactical breed) can do end-game PvE, STFs with optionals far better, faster and more effective than any other combination. Regardless if I personally agree with this statement or not, this is one of the most popular beliefs stated continuously on the STO forum. What is your take on this as a Lead Content Designer for STO?

    [CaptainGeko] I don't personally agree with this statement and feel it is hyperbole to say "science abilities are useless and the tanking role is obsolete". At the same time, I completely acknowledge that many players prefer DPS builds over control or tanking builds ? that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. But I feel this is usually the opinion of hard core and dedicated players. Hard core players will always find the most optimal build.

    There are few ways to address this: make everything else better; nerf Escorts (oh the horror!); offer gameplay objectives that only certain classes can achieve; offer new gameplay mechanics to other classes to make them tactically interesting, or change the entire game to satisfy more traditional Tank/Support/DPS MMO gameplay. Any change will either have no significant effect on the perceived value of Escorts, or it could possibly just shift the ?flavor of the week. ?

    My take as Lead Designer is that the problem is not significant. Stop off at any social hub or sector space and there are plenty of cruisers, carriers and science vessels that players fly. Now, that all being said, I don't deny the effectiveness of Escorts, and I'm not saying we are not interested in offering new options. As mentioned above, we are currently looking into a possible new mechanic for Cruisers and Science Vessels, as well as new Bridge Officer power options for all professions. Also, some of the new Content in Season 8 has objectives that are better completed by different ship classes. But I don't believe any of these changes will significantly change ship roles in STO ? our goal is to just keep things fresh and fun.



    so yep, the man himself basically says everything is alright and balanced.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    That's not how his post is coming across to me maicake716. In a way he does say there is a problem, but it's not an easy fix. And let's be honest, the problem he is faced with is vast. One change can have a huge impact on so many different aspects of the game.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I uh, had to stop reading that Interview a Dev thing with Geko. I had to...if I hadn't, well... yeah, I had to.
  • captainednacaptainedna Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I uh, had to stop reading that Interview a Dev thing with Geko. I had to...if I hadn't, well... yeah, I had to.

    ctrl+F and search PvP = zero results so I had no reason to read it :D
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    ctrl+F and search PvP = zero results so I had no reason to read it :D

    There's plenty of fun things in there, I did actually go through and read it...so of course, my reply in the thread for the article had to start off with asking what kind of trouble I'd get in for reporting Geko for trolling. ;)
  • kapla1755kapla1755 Member Posts: 1,249
    edited September 2013
    [CaptainGeko] I don't personally agree with this statement and feel it is hyperbole to say "science abilities are useless and the tanking role is obsolete". At the same time, I completely acknowledge that many players prefer DPS builds over control or tanking builds ? that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. But I feel this is usually the opinion of hard core and dedicated players. Hard core players will always find the most optimal build.

    There are few ways to address this: make everything else better; nerf Escorts (oh the horror!); offer gameplay objectives that only certain classes can achieve; offer new gameplay mechanics to other classes to make them tactically interesting, or change the entire game to satisfy more traditional Tank/Support/DPS MMO gameplay. Any change will either have no significant effect on the perceived value of Escorts, or it could possibly just shift the ?flavor of the week. ?

    My take as Lead Designer is that the problem is not significant. Stop off at any social hub or sector space and there are plenty of cruisers, carriers and science vessels that players fly. Now, that all being said, I don't deny the effectiveness of Escorts, and I'm not saying we are not interested in offering new options.
    As mentioned above, we are currently looking into a possible new mechanic for Cruisers and Science Vessels, as well as new Bridge Officer power options for all professions. Also, some of the new Content in Season 8 has objectives that are better completed by different ship classes. But I don't believe any of these changes will significantly change ship roles in STO ? our goal is to just keep things fresh and fun.

    that seems to be the significant part of the interview.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    kapla1755 wrote: »
    that seems to be the significant part of the interview.

    That is what I was trying to get at in my previous post. Some of you are probably very skeptical, but look at tribble right now. There are a very large number of PvP fixes right in that thread, fixes from issues we reported here on the forums quite recently. I don't think they have given on us entirely.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Wells w/5x Leadership
    Korath w/5x Pirate
    R'Mor w/5x Sub & Sup Op

    Obviously they're not meant to be balanced against each other!

    The Nausican Pirate Boff trait works in Space too?
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    The Nausican Pirate Boff trait works in Space too?

    Well, here's the problem.

    It's a Ground trait that's actually a Space trait. If you look at a BOFF in your active roster, it's listed as a Space trait. If you look at a non-commissioned BOFF, it's listed under Ground as a Space trait...meh.

    It's supposed to provide the +2% Damage and +10 Stealth in Space. It's supposed to stack. There are various complaints that both the Captain Trait and the BOFF Traits are broken. In the Tribble (Season 8 fork) notes, they are addressing the Captain Trait. So who knows when that will actually get fixed, eh?

    Thing is...the BOFF trait doesn't work either. Doesn't provide the bonus (and thus, doesn't stack). Believe Drunk brought it up in the thread for the Tribble notes.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    kapla1755 wrote: »
    that seems to be the significant part of the interview.

    -points out that they also said leader board tech was in the works to be released soon 2 years ago-

    they tend to say that "theyre looking into it" and then do nothing it seems.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    -points out that they also said leader board tech was in the works to be released soon 2 years ago-

    they tend to say that "theyre looking into it" and then do nothing it seems.

    Leaderboards are up and running.... oh ya wait. :)


    Hours spent working on leaderboards 100s?

    Hours spent talking about them in chats... a couple.

    Users programing there own making you look stupid... priceless.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • l30p4rdl30p4rd Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    The interview was a whole lot of talk about ... er ... nothing !

    I came away from reading it thinking, that's nice, no changes other than expected and THEY might not happen as intended either !

    They were just throwing us an imaginary bone as usual (you know, how you tease the dog into thinking you threw something and he chases nothing)
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    l30p4rd wrote: »
    The interview was a whole lot of talk about ... er ... nothing !

    I thought it said quite a bit.

    There was the FU PvP!
    There was the FU KDF!
    There was the open your wallets, you completely useless extremely casual players that give even casual players a bad rep...we've got more fluff coming for you!

    I thought it said quite a bit.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I thought it said quite a bit.

    There was the FU PvP!
    There was the FU KDF!
    There was the open your wallets, you completely useless extremely casual players that give even casual players a bad rep...we've got more fluff coming for you!

    I thought it said quite a bit.

    well dont forget, werent we all just a bunch of teenagers who needed to learn to play?
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    well dont forget, werent we all just a bunch of teenagers who needed to learn to play?

    That's entirely incorrect. We're teenage min-maxers.

    EDIT: Something I forgot to mention when I first made the thread:

    Anything you can do, a Romulan can do better. Romulans can do anything better than you.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
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