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Need another way for Starbase Progression
azurianstar
Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
I and many other Small Fleets have suffered with all these new Fleet holdings to the point we haven't put any work into projects for the Starbase since Season 7. My own fleet has just unlocked Tier 1 Mines and we are just exhausted from all the grinding. Many people have left because they are just tired of it.
So Cryptic, please give us alternate means to level up bases and base holdings. Because grinding day after day for months with no progress just is no fun, it's a job.
So Cryptic, please give us alternate means to level up bases and base holdings. Because grinding day after day for months with no progress just is no fun, it's a job.
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1) Get lots of fleet marks. The DOff system is one way to do that, each 10000 above your 100000 CXP cap can get you between 75-100 marks. Every time I log into STO I spend a good portion on DOff missions. Keep in mind some missions are better than others: while some missions reward ridiculous amounts of Dilithium, others offer lots and lots of CXP. Take a look at what each mission offers (as well as duration) and plan accordingly.
2) Buy a few Rare DOffs from the exchange. Hopefully you'll have enough EC but they tend to go for around 100000 EC a pop depending on the profession. The exchange occaisionally has an Uncommon DOff going for the same price as a common. That actually is a good price.
3) Throw these DOffs into the DOff grinder at the Academy.
4) You should concentrate on the following Fleet projects: Engineering Construction Projects (ENG), Practice Tactical Exercises (TAC) and Theoretical Modeling Projects (SCI). Now that the developers removed the specific requirements for these projects, getting DOffs to fill these projects should be a breeze. These missions provide 1000 experience for each discipline so with the fleet marks you obtain you should be able to fill these projects quite quickly. Also, these projects do not require dilithium, so all the Dil you get can be saved for upgrading the actual base itself. Or if you require provisions, you COULD do one of those provisioning missions too.
5) You WILL get common civilian duty officers when tossing them into the DOff grinder. You could use them for other missions (Embassy or Dilithium Mine, if you need it), but if you do not need them, any non-refugees should be tossed back in the exchange, you can get (depending on the time of day) around 10000 to 25000 EC back. If you get Refugees, even better, do the asylum missions and hopefully you can get a decent Rare Doff that you can either use or toss into the DOff grinder again.
KEEP IN MIND: Both my personal Fleets are at Tier 2. While Tier 2 is indeed attainable, Tier 3 is going to be a real ***** to do considering the small number of members in our fleets. My FED fleet has 3 active contributors while the KDF fleet has 2. The requirements for each project in the third tier are twice the amount as in Tier 2. I don't expect to get to Tier 3 any time soon. Unless anyone wants to join me?
FED: Royal Federation Mounted Starfleet: SB3, TAC3, ENG3, SCI3, Win, Int, DOff(T/E/S/B)
KDF: Parliamentary Klingon Empire: SB2, TAC2, ENG2, SCI2, Win, DOff(T)
Interested in joining? Please send a PM to @Tahna_Los.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
There is a reason small fleets exist, they wanted to stay small. Besides, there are tons of problems having to earn Fleet Marks or getting Provisions to buy stuff in a Large Fleet.
I appropriate you trying to help, but this has nothing to do with my thread. I don't have a problem with Dilithium, I don't have an EC or a DOFF problem, my point is earning Fleet Marks to progress the Fleet.
Right now, small fleets are suffering majorly because they can't earn Fleet Marks. Many people have abandoned their small fleets because they can't progress anymore or they are BURNT out. Because they have to literally work 100x harder than those in Large Fleets.
And right now, the KDF fleet I'm in is literally stalled because the Queues are literally DEAD! And the only other place is Defera and that place was virutally empty of KDF Groups.
BTW, giving up 10000 points for 100 Fleet Marks in the Commission trade in is a terrible way to progress one's fleet. Spend weeks to months re working those lost points to turn in again when Fleet Projects cost like 600 Fleet Marks.
Just absolutely terrible.
Well, now we know why Small Fleets are dead, because Cryptic doesn't care about them. It's all about the greed now than people grouping out of friendship.
Problem with smaller fleets having an easier time is that the system could be abused.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Cryptic decided not to limit the smaller fleets by what they can build, they did not set the cap on T3 or anything else according to the number of members. They allowed every fleet, no matter how big or small to build the entire base, but that also comes with the costs involved. We are all building the same structure, and honestly I see no reason why someone should pay less for the same base as everyone else only because of their own decision to remain a small fleet..
I know that life is tough, but that?s what it is, if you can?t get to T5 by yourselves, there are fleets that will let you get what you want from their fleet stores and agreements can be made so that your members can buy ships from their bases..
If it takes you weeks/months to get 10,000 CXP, you're doing it wrong.
You need to do the mining doff missions at the Fleet mine. They reward FM on a critical, as well as giving healthy chunks of Trade and Development XP. If you have any sort of a reasonable DOFF roster, you ought to be able to get to 25% crit rate, and be able to generate ~200 FM/week (figuring 3-4 crits, plus enough CXP to turn in Trade and Development once per week) per character with minimal effort, even with just the tier I missions.
That's 40-60 thousand CXP earned per day (spread across multiple categories). So don't tell me getting 10k takes weeks or months.
It's partly this, i.e. inadequate management of limited resources. It's a simple fact that projects with no dil requirement are filled quicker and for obvious reasons. The embassy is all dil though, so unless it's a small fleet of all hardcore grinders, i can see that being tough to complete.
Also, on the 'giving up' or 'leaving because it was taking too long' topic, while i appreciate how much more one active member leaving a small fleet will hurt fleet progress, I can't help but just say 'wait'. Even the big fleets had to wait a lot more time than most people seem to think for their stuff and it's not like getting all the holdings finished happened overnight for those that have done it or are close.
If the fleet and its holdings are just about the gear and not about playing with a group of people you get on with, there are ways to resolve that issue and have both as stated above with things like private chat channels and the like. Besides, the fleet gear is very nice, but is it really 'essential' kit outside of pvp?
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
+1
You also need to choose which DOff assignments to do, the wrong ones give a piddly amount of CXP while the larger ones give out 1-2K of CXP.
Now that my fleets are working on Tier 3, we're finally running down our stockpile of Fleet Marks. So we may very well be in your boat too, but we have a Tier 2 starbase to show for it. Honestly, I don't mind.
FED: Royal Federation Mounted Starfleet: SB3, TAC3, ENG3, SCI3, Win, Int, DOff(T/E/S/B)
KDF: Parliamentary Klingon Empire: SB2, TAC2, ENG2, SCI2, Win, DOff(T)
Interested in joining? Please send a PM to @Tahna_Los.
I am not making these numbers up: I've actually had to do this in my fleet. It really IS that gruesome.
Who are you to judge what is fast or not. Not everyone is a hardcore gamer, especially those who are in small fleet who all they do is grind grind grind grind grind. No wonder people have left for Tier 5 fleets or quit altogether.
Secondly, I'll say it again, exchanging CXP for a few Fleet Marks is a shi...y way to level your starbase. It's no better than scrounging in the trash can when you can't even get in the queues, because they are dead! And don't tell me they aren't, as I'm typing this it's the fleet Mark event and there is 0 groups occuring for KDF groups and there is no KDF activity on Defera.
I'm not sure if this is directed me or not, but I'm not concerned of rushing to Tier 5. After all, you can "buy"ships and such from other fleets.
HOWEVER, Cryptic's very very poor lack of insight has caused Small Fleets to die. This is why people say Cryptic doesn't care about small fleets. It's been over a year since they added the Starbase system and they are like politicians in lieing their through teeth about helping people, instead they just watch as Fleet Die because they are tired of either grinding literally to death or leaving for better pastures (Tier 5 fleets).
And I think it's past the point of no return that small fleets could recover, even if they managed to do something.
I'm regretting even bothering with the fleet system at all, it's been nothing but a waste of time.
I don?t mind that it will take us a long time to get to T3 across the board (having given up on any T5 aspirations), but we will never catch up, we will be behind when they bring out the next holding, and always lag behind because there will always be a new holding (or some other sink) to keep the ?big boys? spending.
Dropping my fleet and joining a big one would make a massive difference to my firepower, but at the loss of a close knit community. (I know I could get an invitation and get higher tier gear, but that has never felt quite right to me)
Personally I think it is a shame that the fleet system benefits (some) members of a large fleet who can spend just enough to pay for their toys over others who can work very hard and not get those same toys.
Note: Iam surprised that Cryptic hasn't put out a skin for starbases.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
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I'm the person who's trying to help you. Clearly a waste of my time. What I suggested requires perhaps two minutes a day - if that's too hardcore for you, then perhaps you should try Hello Kitty Online.
Cryptic doesn't care about small fleets. If you want to try to progress as one, you're going to have to either a) play smarter or b) play harder.
You position doesn't help the situation that many are having with the game in general, but that is most of what MMO's have become in being restrictive and not loose and allowing the player the style in which fits them.
I understand this idea behind this, but some of us don't have that kind of time and iam not saying remove that so it is easier but give or allow more options available.
Certain types of resources are easier than others.
what kind of things do your active members find easy to grind?
Identify that and then pick projects that favour those resources.
Put some effort into getting your embassy to the point where you can set up the commodity broker. It's a big discount on those expensive to replicate commodities.
The mine gives discounts on all inputs, that may be something to prioritise.
Main thing is, is not to have unrealistic expectations.
We're not a huge fleet, we don't have oodles of active members, so we don't expect to get tier 5 in things quickly. Indeed we know its going to be a slog. Once you accept that, things get easier. Especially if you play smart.
I was willing to work, but there was no reward.
You get nothing unique from it. Your fleet name and your uniform, if you made one, are all you have and those don't require holdings.
This was a pointless system made by heartless people. If you can prove me wrong, please do. I'd like to be wrong.
Small fleets get nothing. There is nothing to customize. Large fleets got rich early on selling access. Now that access is free, quit grinding and go buy w/e you think you need and be done with it. Nobody cares what level your holdings are but you.
This system was not made with a player's interests in mind. It is in no way player housing and has no meaning in the greater game. It affects nothing but currency levels.
The only ways this system could ever matter to a fleet:
1. customizable environment
2. directly influences territorial control or story options (exploration and a sense of ownership like what is visible on the Eve galactic map)
3. is an optional focal point for pvp
4. generates revenue
what we got:
"yo dawg, I heard you liked stores..."
my goofy character bios are more significant to me than anything fleet holdings have provided me.
(this thread is only a couple of weeks old, and it's still on the first page, so I hope it's not too bad for a bit of graverobbing)
A friend and I were doing some fleet dailies tonight, and our tiny fleet has gotten the tier 2 mine development upgrade marks done. Still need 300k dilth for it though (I can sort that out with my characters, but I'd prefer it if the fleet were more active so everyone could chip in). Anyway, I did the math and pointed out how after that upgrade, we'd need to do 19 more dev tier projects to get to the tier 3 upgrade, and my friend made the comment 'Of course, those projects will get more expensive. Shame the reward doesn't increase though.'
And yeah. That astute observation made me wonder why. If the inputs increase every tier, then surely the outputs should increase as well, proportionately - it would be logical. Or if the output stays the same then so should the inputs - i.e. you pay the same amount for XP you get at tier V that you paid at tier I. But no, all these projects have the same reward regardless of how much it costs. It blows.
Higher output would give faster leveling for fleets too. It's already timegated thanks to the 20hr project timers and the days/weeks for tier upgrades. But you'd unlock those upgrades sooner.
Here's how you get things done:
1. Plan ahead. Know what you're going to be doing, how much of it you're going to be doing, and have everything lined up in advance.
2. Assign specific responsibilities. It is the responsibility of ONE SPECIFIC PERSON to make sure that a specific task is performed. That means if your base is going to need 12000 of something, it is the responsibility of a specific individual to make sure that stuff is there and on tap when it is needed.
3. Don't get hung up on "FC Contributions" and "Rewards". The moment you start trying to reward people based purely on arbitrary score devisd by someone who is not you, you're going to have people gaming the system, tripping over each others feet in an attempt to rake in score, and soforth. None of this is efficient. None of this gets specific jobs DONE.
4. Be Efficient: Find out the best way to do something, then do it in that way. Make it work. 500 man fleets can afford to have hundreds of people making half-hearted flaily efforts that, despite massive inefficiency, can still get the job done by brute force. You cannot.
5. Have a backup plan. One that YOU can execute. Other people are notoriously shifty and unreliable slackers. You cannot count on them, they are utterly worthless bums. If you want to get anything done, you have to do it yourself. 90% of everything is done by the 10%. This Means You.
I agree with you 100% If people still don't get it then maybe they should lobby for a cryptic bailout
I'd like to address something specific about this post- if your fleet has the correct provisions, you *do* have access to high-level fleet equipment. All you have to do is go to the Public Service or NoP Public Service channel and ask for an invite to a higher-tier fleet's base (and be patient because sometimes that takes a while). A base map invite will let you shop at the fleet stores, while you spend your fleet's provisions.
(the shipyard does not work with a base map invite, btw)
But I wouldn't call them pointless.
Leaving aside fleet provisions for a moment, there are a few things that holdings provide. I, personally, am dumping resources toward unlocking the discount commodity vendor at the Embassy. If nothing else, the fleet Transwarp gate can provide a handy shortcut to a distant sector and it is not limited by cooldowns. I can Transwarp to the Starbase and then gate to a handy location.
Not to mention, if I need to dump inventory it's a lot easier to do from the Starbase once the bank is unlocked and I can return to the same location I left from. Better than Azura II.
I'm waking up to the fact that PvE queues that reward marks do so far more quickly and reliably than CXP conversions. Crystalline Catastrophe on Normal all by itself is completed in under 15 minutes and gets me somewhere around 40-50 marks per run. And it's more fun than I expected it to be.
Is it still slow for a small fleet? Heck, yes. It's still a heavy grind. But it's getting done little by little. We're almost at T2 Embassy. We're going to unlock that commodity vendor. And maybe that shuttle. After that, we'll focus on T2 Mine (which is being completed in parallel). And THEN, maybe, T3 Shipyard here we come.
I'm not saying I wouldn't be open to going faster. And yes, it is entirely possible for fleets to stall out on projects. Been there, done that, hated it. But I never had any illusions that we would get to T5 Starbase in less than a year and at this rate two or three is more likely. Would have gone faster if I'd gotten my butt in the queues sooner. And the new mine assignments are helping, too. Things are moving in the right direction, I think.
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Very true. I still remember tho when S6 rolled we were told so many times "Small fleets wouldn't be punished or persecuted"... Yeah didn't believe it then and glad I was right
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Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010