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PvP Boot Camp Updates - 09/11/2013
pwebranflakes
Member Posts: 7,741
Community Member Kolln checks in to provide some important updates for PvP Boot Camp participants.
Click here to read more.
Click here to read more.
Post edited by pwebranflakes on
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Any way, this is what I wanted to post:
I am new to STO (just two weeks old!) and have some questions. What is boot camp? What is a VA? How do you sign up?
Hey fellow!
To answer your questions:
PvP Boot Camp is a community initiative to help the PvP community to grow and the individuals to learn how to play in PvP.
VA is Vice Admiral, Boot Camp's leadership is a council where are VAs of each task, like me, I am the VA of Registration & Attendance, I do manage the participants names, participated sessions, so to send them out the reward of completing Boot Camp Curriculum.
In the forums there is a PvP sub-forum for Boot Camp, here you can find:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=351
There are the registration thread as well as other informations, except for this article. This article's purpose is only to arouse interest, like yours.
If you had any further question please feel free to contac me through my e-mail kolln@hgforces.hu !
Regards,
So the whole purpose of the article was to get us interested and then when some one asked to sign up is to refer them to a forum search page where any thread that even mentions it appears.
There is no clear sign up instructions here or on your http://pvp-boot-camp.com/ website.
If you are trying to get people on board then you need to show people how to sign up rather then point to a needle in the haystack.
The first link in that haystack point to "In this thread you can sign up for the Boot Camp's 4th Session, which will take place on 17th August."
Are you advertising events that already ended?
Although I respect the work the community has put into this project, it's been said already that pvp in this game is neglected and has been for three years. I see this Boot Camp as being little more than the jingling of car keys and saying, "Hey look, we have a PvP facet!"
STO is a Star Trek game first, PvE game second, and a PvP game... well... probably third or fourth. They've admitted to it, and the PvP "balance" this game has proves that they simply want it to be a minimal viable feature.
Minimal viable feature means "enough to have players, but not enough to focus company resources in large amounts to".
The fact Gozer was shuffled into doing PvP 'content' before he left and thus far Cryptic having nothing to show for it just really highlights that PvP is not important.
I do salute the PvP Boot Camp people, since I do like to see someone having fun with it... but there are other games with a more intensive pvp experience.
Being good at PvP in Star Trek Online is like being good at playground hopscotch. A 'Boot Camp' for playground hopscotch really just smacks of desperation and the grasping of straws to get people interested in something that isn't really all that fleshed out, and hasn't been for three years.
Thank you for your remark!
The link you posted is the site that we are wokring on to get involved in the chain of communication. Now only we have the COMMS site ( http://pvp-boot.camp.shivtr.com/ ), the sub-forums, and these articles for this purpose.
As always, there will be new threads for the registration aims as well as other cases. The reason was I did not posted them yet was this article. As soon as possible every relevant information will be posted on the sub-forums and on the COMMS site, too.
Regards,
Yes, STO has PvP. A really interesting, but undeveloped PvP. The facts are that in the near past the PvP got less and less attention than other times. But what is also a fact that we are playing. We have the chance to play how we want.
I am not speaking about banning consoles out or else. But speaking about playing fairly. This means not to spam either abilities (like 5 sci with subnucs), etc.
Otherwise, one of Boot Camp's purposes is to teach the players how to play at all, which must be watched, which is unnecessary to be watched, which is useless, which is efficient etc. So I believe we give a basic knowledge of playing in STO. Because this knowledge can be used in other part of the game as well.
Regards,
I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors. It's clear you're passionate about PvP regardless of its current state, and that has to be respected. I hope you get many players signed up for Boot Camp and that more players become informed and familiar about PvP in general.
I hope it's a big enough turn-out that the people in charge of STO glance at it and recognize that the PvP aspect of the game is something they should address.
I think it's cool that you're teaching other players how to play fairly, but as it's been evidenced for years... there is no honor system on the internet. I hope the players will respect PvP in the game more than the developers will as a result of this initiative.
If anyone taps my shoulder about learning how to PvP I'll be sure to send them your way.
You don't want to join the boot camp. Cryptic designed a poor PVP system when it failed they started a PVP boot camp to boost PVP numbers so they don't have to revamp the whole PVP system.
Right now if you do PVP your going to be fighting pre-made star ships bots that will mass target the strongest ship while the rest auto buff and heal. If you know what ships to pickoff you have a chance. Then there is all the garbage that gets spawned do to abilities. You get rewards for killing the garbage screen in dropped items but the poor targeting system makes this a winning tactic all the time. Now with the Rom ability to create shadow ships combined with holographic ships, and fleet support you can create a garbage screen of up to 20 capital ships. Klingon ships still have a slight edge due to cloaking. The other tactic is to camp by a spawn point so when a ship is destroyed it can get back into the fight faster also know as Federation cow herds. Once your down 3 ships you get rolled fast and it ends quickly.
Total waste of time you don't get any real rewards for doing it. If the Boot Camps were a success why would they be replacing the leadership, and trying to add players. Your never going to win the Zen. That will be handed out to a select few who will sell it on the dying dilith market that's probably why dark is off the project he turned it into a get rich scam. Right now a common PVP que will have at-least 2 Andorran ships with mark 12 cannons and turrets. You will be destroyed by a single mass attack before you even know who's attacking you.
Don't support the PVP system. Don't support the Boot Camp let the whole thing die so their forced to revamp it.
Look at what happened with the Crystal entity. It took time but in the end we got a better product on the second attempt. The same thing will happen if numbers continue to drop from PVP.
Please take my advice and don't get involved if you want to fight PVP you can challenge a friend you know is a real person using the menu. Or I would go to the Keret system yea there is Borg all over that area but you can also PVP with other ships and friends that you know are real and not bots. It's a much better bootcamp than they will ever offer you because your facing people you know and trust.
Thanks
zevermoon
If my only experience in STO PvP was the PvP Queues... I would whole heatedly agree with you. However, through the introduction to PvP by a friend, and then attending the boot camp sessions... I found another side of PvP.
There is a community of players, who really don't want to use all things broken to stomp another player... there are those who enjoy a "fair fight"... who relish and herald the close matches.
I'll grant you that this is not generally found in the queues. It can be found, however... in places such as the Tyler Durden channel, where teams are formed, leveled, and rules set before the match (generally to eliminate the items that the community at large believe to be broken, or to prevent the one sided games you mention).
The player organized tournaments are another good example of the community attempting to do away with the very things you mention.
My interactions with the Bootcamp have always been positive, and I became a much better PvP player because of it. Do I win some, yep... do I lose some, yep... are there times my team is completely decimated by a more experienced team... yes.
Point being, if PvP isn't for you, thats fine... I understand (and trust me... if my only interaction with PvP was in the queues, i would have quit a long time ago).
It is sad, that most players introduction to PvP is the queues... it can seriously chase people away... To that end, the Bootcamp has made efforts to improve the introduction to PvP... try to undo some of the damage done by the queues.
I for one joined the PvP Senate, have offered to be a coach for the Bootcamp (whenever you need me Kolln).. and look forward to the Territorial Control Tournament (seriously, check out the screen shots) there has been a ton of work put into this... and I applaud all those involved.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Boot Camp is a community initiative, created by Sargon. However because of the PvP system's failure, but one question:
Why Cryptic develops all the time the PvE content? Because the PvE players' camp is huge and they provide Cryptic with money. This is it.
If they will have proof that there are also a big camp of PvP players, then perhaps they will get more resources to revamp the PvP system, too. (Do not forget PWE.)
Another purpose of Boot Camp. With aiding them we can involve more and more players into the PvP community. If you think this is useless then that is your own decision, but do not discourage anyone else!
"Don't support the PVP system. Don't support the Boot Camp let the whole thing die so their forced to revamp it."
Maybe, but if you mentioned Crystalline Entity. The old one was a very great Fleet Action, that requested pure tactics, and designed builds, etc. Not really many players played with it, it was because of this requested thinking as well! Now that "revamp" you enhance so badly is what? Crystalline Entity Fleet Action is designed for less players with only one doing that is shooting... Again what happened? Not engineer and science captains have sense to be in the event. So another tactical centered PvE Event has been made.
Last but not least, the leadership you speak of has been not changed! Each season the VAs of Boot Camp elect someone between them to help in co-ordination as well as announcing news like these. This is for our own stable working.
Regards,
And to add to what Kolln said, we have also the Boot Camp Senate.
The Senate was started so we would allow for more participation by the community in Boot Camp. There are so many great projects underway, and we can always use extra helpers and supporters!
Thank you very much for your kind words! If you change your mind in this matter, please feel free to contact me!
johnny111971,
Thank you very much for your offer, I will remind myself.
Drk,
Thanks for the supplement.
Then I think you have alot to look forward to!!!
Just you wait till you get a load of Territory Control which Boot Camp is working on and see the cool prizes we have in store for you!
I have great respect for your attitude. Kudu's mate, and all we could ever hope for is player support and faith in that what we are doing is trying to attract enough people to PvP to show the Devs that its matters a great deal.
Like I said in its current state PVP is a waste of time. Don't let them suck you into some community clan based event. Because when its all over your still going to have a hideous PVP que system. That needs to be revamped and upgraded. You will Que up in games of pre-generated ships using auto heal and garbage ship screens. Boot Camp is not the solution. All they are trying to do is raise the number of PVP players so they don't have to fix this hideous broken system.
As we see from the increase of PvE content. The number of players what matters. The number of PvE players are far bigger than PvP players. What happens? PvE content got a really wide attention to be developed and added with new content.
If something is dead in the game then they will not spend more resources than they do now to revamp that. Revamping something is not the solution always. Maybe just a few changes needed, less of "interesting" stuffs. And maybe adding some new features.
Like an example, I really do not like playing in the new (F2P) STF system. But as I have to, I do so. I did like when we had to assemble 5 people and go for a great 30-minute / 1-hour STF to have fun. That was teh reason of why I did like now to go to Terradome, but that will be also "redesigned". My advice would be for this like as in PvP, to have a chance to play in this new (F2P) STF system and also the old one. Like PvP has public queues, but you can create your own challenge as well.
So thank you for your opinion, a negative attitude is also an attitude that must be counted in. But please do it without discouraging anyone from PvP or Boot Camp or both.
I do think we (the BC fellows) do not deserve what you are trying to do. I know you want the best for us, but you can do it kindly. Boot Camp is a community initiative, many players have been putting a great work into it to raise it up. With these comments you are only destroying what we have achieved so far and what we would like to do with it.
Regards,
Well I'm sorry you feel that way but PVP is one of the many fails that cryptic try's to hide. The sad thing is the same broken system was adopted for Neverwinter. You mention Terradome the community's requested that cryptic revamp, and add it to the que system a number of times. Cryptic never wants to look back at its failures. Its all about moving fwd. I understand what your trying to do. However Boot Camp not the answer. Fixing the current PVP system is. The only way it will be fixed is by non-participation that's our way of saying NO!.
I not some Free to play junkie I have a gold account 1 year membership. Been with the game since open beta. Done PVP as a Federation, and Klink player my Raptor was the closer it would de-cloak, drain your shield, drop whats left with phaser cannons, and then drop 4 photon torpedo's with critical 2x multiplier into your unbraced hull. Your not helping the situation by trying to add people to a broken PVP system.
Because the Developers are just going to say: "Well we have a great PVP system that doesn't need to be fixed. Were seeing more and more people try it out all the time"
It looks like Right now cryptic is saying to you "Were not going use resources to fix PVP unless their is more participation." Then they have you trying to promote this system for them for free.
So its lost cause son! I not going to support, or encourage people to join a broken PVP system. Just so Cryptic can release a statement saying: "Well we have a great PVP system that doesn't need to be fixed. Were seeing more and more people try it out all the time"
Thanks for understanding. I have no problem debating this issue with you further. Its just going to strengthen my case for why people should not participate in boot camp or PVP. If boot camp, and PVP is a total failure there's more of a chance it will be revamped.
We've seen this before with Crystal Entity, and other missions. So we know it works. Crystal Entity is one of the hottest que PVE events now. It's quick takes 30 min to do. You get great reputation, and fleet rewards. I don't see why we cant have the same type of system for PVP. Your boot camp is not helping the community move fwd. towards the goal of having a correct PVP system that give out proper rewards. A system that's not dominated by a few players with stacked mark 12 equipment. Stacking of equipment such as multiple hull plating is a issue. Along with changing out bridge officers during down period so you have fresh heal buffs. Multi plasma Torpedo launchers that shoot out 3 mark 12 plasma torpedo's. The list goes on to garbage screens of PVE ships that give you equipment when you destroy them. A science officer in a Romulan warbird can create 4 holographic warbirds, lvl 5 shadow ships gives you 6 phantom warbirds. Then you can call in fleet support for 5 more ships if your hull is low enough. So at that point where's the PvP aspect its lost in the PVE mess. Thats just one ship in a 5 on 5
In the current system my star cruiser in attack mode would have 125 weapon 80 shield throw in a shield battery and you be hard pressed to even damage me.
Thanks for the effort but no I don't want to participate and I encourage others not to participate as well
zevermoon
I do not know about anyone else, but I personally do not like having multiple forum accounts. Outside of these particular forums, I do not have any social media accounts.
*shrugs*
K.I.S.S. is an old graphic design mantra, which we use to remind ourselves when things become too complex. It stands for 'Keep It Simple Stupid'. Sometimes we make things so complex, and we forget the average person likes simplicity.
Consolidate.
Do not forget to put sign up instructions in a easy location, so that people will not have to search for them. When people hit the home page or a thread opener, the sign up information should be front and center.
I did not say anything that you must support us or else, but I do say that do not destroy anyone else's work in this. You have no right to do!
The sad part of it is obviously that the "community" you speak of wants as simple as possible fleet actions and events. But there is also a "community" that want to play more than 15-minute actions in chain...
Boot Camp's only purpose to help the PvP community to grow and be something, like that huge PvE community. Because as we see only that matters what that community says. This is why we would like to show ourselves that we are here as well and still want something.
But at this point I stop saying anything more. Waste of typing. As I said before, I appriciate your opinion. I understand what you are trying to do, basically that is the same, but with another method.
So I wish you good luck in this case, but I do ask you not to discourage anyone! If you do so, then you will achieve only one thing, that they will never play in PvP, because you convinced them that is broken.
Regards,
Many Pvpers agree with your feelings, just not the methods you propose. You may want to start your own thread to discuss your ideas. However, hijacking another thread, an official one at that, lacks class and good judgement.
I am not a part of these boot camps, I do not agree with all their views of PvP and dedicated roles/premade teams, I prefer something different (like a lot less healing). But so what?
If you want to PvP in STO and do it now, sign up! You will learn how to play with the very guys you will see in PvP. These guys put a lot of time into what they enjoy and have actually helped with the balance of the game.
But one thing has nothing to do with the other. If you love Star Trek and you find that STO, with all the pros and cons is a game that you want to keep playing, and you feel that PVE is not the only thing you want to do (because is easy, repetitive or what ever you feel), then you are not alone in the game and if you want to experience the PVP gameplay, then the PVP bootcamp is here to help.
Nothing more, nothing less..
Then again, I have to thanks kolln95 and drkfrontiers for keep the PVP bootcamp alive. Also to branflakes for his support.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
No one is hijacking your forum. I'm leaving a comment and then supporting my comment with actual facts.
So to call me a hijacker is out of line and it shows how weak the boot camp side of the coin is.
That you have discredit someones opinion because its negative, and damages your boot camp. That shows that your not mature enough to handle a negative feedback. It show that your not the type of people who should be in charge of a group of people. I wouldn't encourage others to join or support you.
But thanks for your feedback I wish you the best of luck.
zevermoon
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
"Avoid PvP and they will fix it" is not a fact. In fact the option to remove it has been mentioned.
This is an informational thread for those interested in Boot Camp. To criticize the camp or encourage people to avoid it goes directly against the purpose of this thread.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thread%20hijacking
Some might call it trolling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
These references are just to show I am not making up these definitions.
I am not associated with PvP Boot Camp, It said so in my post.
Obviously, as you can see from prior posts, there is a wide and varied opinion on PvP in general, the course it should take, how the community should handle (or not) PvP. To participate or not, what is broken/over powered/good/bad in regards to console/weapon/ship use. Opinions can vary greatly (as you can see).
I do invite you to form your own opinion. While I disagree with Zevermoon's suggestion of not even trying, he has an opinion... and it is valid. I believe it is based on queue bases PvP... and in many regards agree with him if that was the only PvP option.
There are other options in PvP outside the queues. PvP Bootcamp is one (and in my opinion a good one), the Tyler Durden or Organized PvP Channels are others.
I realize that there isn't an announced date for the next PvP Bootcamp sessions... if you would like to discuss PvP and its options, I'll be happy to share whatever knowledge I have...
You can reach me in game at @johnny111971
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
As I said before I not trolling or highjacking in anyway your bordering on whats called flaming. I have a right to defend my opinion. I have a right to discuss this on the forums and I can be positive or negative if I so chose.
You released a article to the main news page, and on the bottom of that page theirs a button that says discuss this on the forums. Since they disabled the leave a comment button. I'm simply replying to attacks that are being made on my opinions and views by people who are trying to discredit me as a person.
Thanks
zevermoon
The only attacks that are happening are the ones you feel are happening. No one is 'discrediting' you.
Buckaneerdtb said that people probably do agree with your sentiments, just not the method that you would go about it.
So, just let it go. Move on from the thread.
Drk, Kolln, same for you guys. This fellow has said his peace, let's just be on our way because no one's minds are going to be changed at all today.
We are currently in the process of doing just that. I am a software developer/ designer by trade myself and until the Beta site is ready it is prudent to keep the legacy intact.