Veteran Ships
Red Matter Capacitor
Blockade Runner Escort Retrofit
That is 3 examples of things someone who is totally a free to play player can't get. Their are other items not sure how many and what they all are but the game does have some pay to win in it.
The only items that could be remotely considered Pay2Win,... is/are anything that comes from a Gold Subscription or a LTS. Some of those ships and/or items can ONLY be gotten from a sub or LTS,... making them simply and totally unattainable without spending money.
Ok, maybe a Red Matter Capacitor. Would love to have one or three of those,...
Everything else I've seen and/or heard about is obtainable with in game resources. Simply a question of how much time and effort you are willing to exchange for them.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
The best stuff I have is stuff that cost me nothing. There isn't one single console that is better than standard ones. Fleet ships are easy to get without spending any money and they are just as good as the lockbox ships. Better IMO, but that's because they match your faction.
Thanks for the expansion that had "as much content as the last"
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
These threads crack me up - like imagine the horror - a private company actually trying to rake in profits!! It's unheard of!!
F2P is an illusion - it has to be - if there were no real money coming in then the hamsters keeping the serves going would starve and the game would shut down.
These threads crack me up - like imagine the horror - a private company actually trying to rake in profits!! It's unheard of!!
F2P is an illusion - it has to be - if there were no real money coming in then the hamsters keeping the serves going would starve and the game would shut down.
End of story.
It makes one wonder how others manage to do it without milking their customers at every turn...
if they suddenly reduced the dilithium payouts of everything in game that awards them (foundry/mines/Conduit etc) to one tenth of their current payouts but kept all the prices the same, would people still maintain that everything in the game is perfectly obtainable without money with only patience? How about one hundredth the current dil payouts? Or a thousandth?
Technically, it would still only require "patience".
if they suddenly reduced the dilithium payouts of everything in game that awards them (foundry/mines/Conduit etc) to one tenth of their current payouts but kept all the prices the same, would people still maintain that everything in the game is perfectly obtainable without money with only patience? How about one hundredth the current dil payouts? Or a thousandth?
Technically, it would still only require "patience".
Your argument is specious since that's NOT the case. We can play the "what if" game all day long and at some point yes, it would be so skewed as to be undefendable,...
However, given the current EXISTING economics of the game, everything is attainable with time and patience EXCEPT for the Vet and Sub rewards.
Now, I'm not one of the ones complaining about spending money on the game nor will I be. I spend a decent sum of real money each month to get certain resources which I then turn into other resources to acquire the things I need.
I don't get all that upset thinking something or other I don't have is P2W like some of these people do.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Just take the entire contents of lockboxes, the lobi store, and the c-store and put them into a giant list.
But what else would you expect from an Asian MMO. They're all like that, horrendous money grabs. The only reason I play is because I love the Star Trek IP and have become good enough at this game to be able to get any lobi/zen/p4advantage item without giving PWE any money.
Although I'd hate to add up the amount of money I used to put into this game 1 year+ ago.
Thats actually quite wrong.
If "everyone" went by that then it would be virtually impossible to get the lockbox stuff.
Some people MUST pay for the economy to work, for all these items to actually exist to be obtainable through in-game means.
dil -> zen -> keys -> lobi
Perfectly available in game without paying actual money.
_________________________________________________
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
if they suddenly reduced the dilithium payouts of everything in game that awards them (foundry/mines/Conduit etc) to one tenth of their current payouts but kept all the prices the same, would people still maintain that everything in the game is perfectly obtainable without money with only patience? How about one hundredth the current dil payouts? Or a thousandth?
Technically, it would still only require "patience".
The thing is, you don't need to exchange dilithium for zen to be competitive. You can get a fleet ship with all of the best gear through the fleet and reputation stores, and the exchange and spend 0 zen and a reasonable amount of time.
Maybe you want one of the other cstore only items? Personally, I wouldn't grind that much dilithium to get a 3 pack for 50 bucks. No way! I'd set aside 5 bucks a month and I could still get it faster. But I understand that, while it is a F2P game, not everything is free. They have to make money. But those cstore or lockbox ships don't give any advantage over the fleet ships. They give you different play options, but certainly not superior ones. In most cases I would say the consoles are inferior and cramp the style of an optimal build.
Thanks for the expansion that had "as much content as the last"
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
if they suddenly reduced the dilithium payouts of everything in game that awards them (foundry/mines/Conduit etc) to one tenth of their current payouts but kept all the prices the same, would people still maintain that everything in the game is perfectly obtainable without money with only patience? How about one hundredth the current dil payouts? Or a thousandth?
Technically, it would still only require "patience".
Last year they reduced many Dilithium rewards. As of right now an average 8k Diltihium player can still make over 2,000 Zen per month. I routinely make 4-5K Zen per month, and often more, just playing 2-3 hours per day - and there are players who make double what I do.
I have over 60k Zen on this account, own every C-Store ship and item I want, own several Lobi Ships and items, have over 1 billion ECS, and have not spent a penny on this game since it went FTP 20 months ago.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Perfectly available in game without paying actual money.
LTS rewards, Collectors Edition (if you can find one), and the Steamrunner starship are the only items in the game that require purchasing something with real money.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The requirements aren't the hard part; the 20 hour timer is. That can't be circumvented with money. It's also a reason why people are beginning to want a lump sum method of completing all 5 tiers in one massive grind pile.
Correct...you can't BUY time...those who think time is irrelevant need to take a physics lesson...Einstein wouldn't put the two words together time irrelevant?:P....just sounds awful
Meh,P2W. I would take the last free Escort this game offers, put all the nice XII gear I earned from doing STFs on it, and put that P2W theory to the test in a PVP.
Meh,P2W. I would take the last free Escort this game offers, put all the nice XII gear I earned from doing STFs on it, and put that P2W theory to the test in a PVP.
That's pretty much what I've done. Except for the PvP part. I don't do PvP. The rest holds true though.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Next time you go into pvp and get wrecked in 2.5 seconds, just ask what they are using and there's your list. (assuming they are in good enough mood to answer the likes of you)
So... skill is P2W now?
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Again there is no such thing as of yet in this game that is p2w, because everything you pay for can still lose to free stuff!!! If there was truly a p2w it would guarantee winning no matter what each and every time without fail or come in a big shiny button that you hit and viola it says you win!!!
Again there is no such thing as of yet in this game that is p2w,
There is no such thing as winning in an MMO. At the end of the day, you log out but don't collect any prize money no matter what content you played or how well you played it. However, some items can be purchased which will improve your chances of being named the victor in the encounters you play. Meanwhile, there is nothing a player can buy that will eliminate playersuck.
There is no such thing as winning in an MMO. At the end of the day, you log out but don't collect any prize money no matter what content you played or how well you played it. However, some items can be purchased which will improve your chances of being named the victor in the encounters you play. Meanwhile, there is nothing a player can buy that will eliminate playersuck.
Exactly the point of the thread, those who do so are paying for an advantage over others in an attempt to increase the odds of winning, and not paying2win by what the term's meaning says exactly.
Perfectly available in game without paying actual money.
Perfectly available on whos terms? Yours? I dont think you can rightly speak for everyone on this point as most players in this game according to the devs are casual players...Casual players do not play long periods of time and do not farm.
So dil for a casual player is the less then 8k dil they can generate in the small period of time they play.
Zen for a casual player is the days upon days of less then 8k dil they generate in turn to sell for the exchange of zen.
Keys are only availiable to casual players after a few days of grinding to finally save up enough to buy a single one of these keys. So if a casual player only has one hour a day to invest in this game...And typically someone sees 250k-350k EC on a daily run. Thats about 4 days of grind for a single Key. A single key that wont return very much in that lockbox..
Lobi..Well lets be honest here. The easiest thing to get in the Lobi store is like 5-10 lobi. Which is like two lockboxes. It immediately jumps to something like 200 lobi and up for anything else.
SO there is a significant expectation here for the casual player to spend a great deal of days, weeks and months before obtaining these objects. And the Devs know that chances are these individuals will become frustrated with this long before grinding to their goal and give in to buying Zen.
People can deny up and down that a form of P2W exists here because theres a means to EVENTUALLY obtain things in game. But thats the way the Devs and PWE like you to view it. Because as long as you think everyone is able to obtain it through the same means you were able too...Most will ignore the truth of the model they have here.
Everyone comes on here denying its P2W yet theses lockboxes are selling like hotcakes and someone somewhere has to be feeding this game the hundreds of thousands of Zen and Keys we see flowing in. People have come on here admitting to opening hundreds of boxes only to not receive what they unlocked those boxes for.
Spend any time in PvP and youll notice that particular ships like the JHAS acts as an Escort but with the right build is damn near impossible to penetrate its shields. Everyone can claim up and down that 'Oh its on the Exchange' but Im willing to be the majority of Bug Owners received it through the means of the lockbox gambling when it first appeared. And only now that its mothballed in a good number of peoples shipyards that its now abundant on the exchange.
....People can deny up and down that a form of P2W exists here because theres a means to EVENTUALLY obtain things in game. But thats the way the Devs and PWE like you to view it......
no, it's actually how a F2P business model works. You wont find too many mmo's that dont use it these days.
you either' put in the time or put in a dime'.
Play or pay how you 'choose' ...fits just about all play styles.
pretty basic stuff.
.
_______________________
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Comments
Red Matter Capacitor
Blockade Runner Escort Retrofit
That is 3 examples of things someone who is totally a free to play player can't get. Their are other items not sure how many and what they all are but the game does have some pay to win in it.
Ok, maybe a Red Matter Capacitor. Would love to have one or three of those,...
Everything else I've seen and/or heard about is obtainable with in game resources. Simply a question of how much time and effort you are willing to exchange for them.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
The best stuff I have is stuff that cost me nothing. There isn't one single console that is better than standard ones. Fleet ships are easy to get without spending any money and they are just as good as the lockbox ships. Better IMO, but that's because they match your faction.
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
F2P is an illusion - it has to be - if there were no real money coming in then the hamsters keeping the serves going would starve and the game would shut down.
End of story.
It makes one wonder how others manage to do it without milking their customers at every turn...
Technically, it would still only require "patience".
What is considered P2W
1. ZEN
2. DILITHIUM CRYSTALS
3. EC
4. TIME
My character Tsin'xing
Your argument is specious since that's NOT the case. We can play the "what if" game all day long and at some point yes, it would be so skewed as to be undefendable,...
However, given the current EXISTING economics of the game, everything is attainable with time and patience EXCEPT for the Vet and Sub rewards.
Now, I'm not one of the ones complaining about spending money on the game nor will I be. I spend a decent sum of real money each month to get certain resources which I then turn into other resources to acquire the things I need.
I don't get all that upset thinking something or other I don't have is P2W like some of these people do.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Snap! It is a shame really
Also, when does something become so common in the game from a scam box, that Cryptic should put it in the cstore for a reasonable price?
dil -> zen -> keys -> lobi
Perfectly available in game without paying actual money.
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
The thing is, you don't need to exchange dilithium for zen to be competitive. You can get a fleet ship with all of the best gear through the fleet and reputation stores, and the exchange and spend 0 zen and a reasonable amount of time.
Maybe you want one of the other cstore only items? Personally, I wouldn't grind that much dilithium to get a 3 pack for 50 bucks. No way! I'd set aside 5 bucks a month and I could still get it faster. But I understand that, while it is a F2P game, not everything is free. They have to make money. But those cstore or lockbox ships don't give any advantage over the fleet ships. They give you different play options, but certainly not superior ones. In most cases I would say the consoles are inferior and cramp the style of an optimal build.
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
I have over 60k Zen on this account, own every C-Store ship and item I want, own several Lobi Ships and items, have over 1 billion ECS, and have not spent a penny on this game since it went FTP 20 months ago.
LTS rewards, Collectors Edition (if you can find one), and the Steamrunner starship are the only items in the game that require purchasing something with real money.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
*Fires P2W argument*
It's really not. If it was P2W that means there would be no way to get it without paying.
Hey....how did you do that? Neat tool
Correct...you can't BUY time...those who think time is irrelevant need to take a physics lesson...Einstein wouldn't put the two words together time irrelevant?:P....just sounds awful
That's pretty much what I've done. Except for the PvP part. I don't do PvP. The rest holds true though.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
So... skill is P2W now?
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
What if you pay someone to play? :eek:
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Exactly the point of the thread, those who do so are paying for an advantage over others in an attempt to increase the odds of winning, and not paying2win by what the term's meaning says exactly.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
ya if you love sto becoming a full time JOB
system Lord Baal is dead
Perfectly available on whos terms? Yours? I dont think you can rightly speak for everyone on this point as most players in this game according to the devs are casual players...Casual players do not play long periods of time and do not farm.
So dil for a casual player is the less then 8k dil they can generate in the small period of time they play.
Zen for a casual player is the days upon days of less then 8k dil they generate in turn to sell for the exchange of zen.
Keys are only availiable to casual players after a few days of grinding to finally save up enough to buy a single one of these keys. So if a casual player only has one hour a day to invest in this game...And typically someone sees 250k-350k EC on a daily run. Thats about 4 days of grind for a single Key. A single key that wont return very much in that lockbox..
Lobi..Well lets be honest here. The easiest thing to get in the Lobi store is like 5-10 lobi. Which is like two lockboxes. It immediately jumps to something like 200 lobi and up for anything else.
SO there is a significant expectation here for the casual player to spend a great deal of days, weeks and months before obtaining these objects. And the Devs know that chances are these individuals will become frustrated with this long before grinding to their goal and give in to buying Zen.
People can deny up and down that a form of P2W exists here because theres a means to EVENTUALLY obtain things in game. But thats the way the Devs and PWE like you to view it. Because as long as you think everyone is able to obtain it through the same means you were able too...Most will ignore the truth of the model they have here.
Everyone comes on here denying its P2W yet theses lockboxes are selling like hotcakes and someone somewhere has to be feeding this game the hundreds of thousands of Zen and Keys we see flowing in. People have come on here admitting to opening hundreds of boxes only to not receive what they unlocked those boxes for.
Spend any time in PvP and youll notice that particular ships like the JHAS acts as an Escort but with the right build is damn near impossible to penetrate its shields. Everyone can claim up and down that 'Oh its on the Exchange' but Im willing to be the majority of Bug Owners received it through the means of the lockbox gambling when it first appeared. And only now that its mothballed in a good number of peoples shipyards that its now abundant on the exchange.
no, it's actually how a F2P business model works. You wont find too many mmo's that dont use it these days.
you either' put in the time or put in a dime'.
Play or pay how you 'choose' ...fits just about all play styles.
pretty basic stuff.
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----