I'm sure the camo-option in the customizer could be flagged with a variable, so that ittygritty ST-RPers or others could have an option like "Hide *woodland/camo etc* and replace with standard Starfleet/KDF uniform*" -- That would avoid complaints.
This option would spare me from having to see Starfleet captains running around in cocktail dresses. With something like that I wouldn't care if they include hawaiian leaf-skirts and coconut bikinis
Your part on uniforms is right, btw. Uniforms were representative and should inspire glory and fear in the enemy because they saw you already from afar. Until the napoleonic ages armies met face-to-face. It was the introduction of the light infantry which introduced moving in cover, unseen and strike in sensitive spots of enemy formations. This guerilla warfare ultimately became modern warfare where cover and camouflage are vital. In space, however, with hand held devices equalling present day detection technology the size of a building and even beyond that, you don't really need camouflage. See Klingons, who rather throw themselves in Hand-to--Hand combat wearing shining plate armour.
Seriously, though, if you want just any form of camouflage in Star Trek you can find someone wearing it. But not Starfleet personell. I have the feeling that many people want to turn Starfleet into the Empire from Warhammer 40k just so they can feel more badass and terran marine like *gg*
We are, my example was just an overexaggeration of the many many requests for more and more military gear which I assume has its roots in the other sci-fi franchises which feature awesome military gear and battles as Warhammer 40k is the (intentional) tip of the iceberg.
But everything I said still applies. If you take a look at the MACOs, they are terran military of the pre-federation-days. Even in ENT, man saw the need for a peaceful approach of intergalactic outreach, think about how revolting the thought was when Archer learned that military personell should be stationed on the Enterprise.
UNFORTUNATELY, though, people didn't like Enterprise, which is why the creators thought that they have to model it around present events and work Islamic terrorists in there. To fight those, Starfleet got help by US Marines (MACOs) to save the day. If it wasn't for this story arc and intention to hop on the overly military/patriotic mood of the time, I am absolutely sure they had never invented MACOs in the first place since the pure concept of those guys conflicts with the spirit of Star Trek. It didn't save ENT, but people love and want "Space Marines" - see basically everything sci-fi in existence, be it Warhammer or Battlestar or Unreal or anything.
Please keep in mind I don't want to fight your opinion, I'm just stating why I think this is not a good idea. It is bad enough that Cryptic put the MACOs back into Star Trek though this would have NEVER happened. A elite task force yes, but not a 400-year-old MILITARY organisation. I'm glad we don't have camouflage right now, the bright armours/space suits are kind of okay.
I have no doubt that camouflage uniforms will find their way into the game, though. I just don't like the idea, but then again, look at the game. It is already more Mirror Universe Online than anything else
But Klingons wouldn't use camo. Warriors don't hide, they wear shiny plated armour to be seen by the enemy. I think the Klingon military doesn't have any use for camouflage be it personal cloaking or just camo patterns. On ships however they follow a more hunter-like mentality. /QUOTE]
And why not? They use cloaking devices, and by using the "Don't hide" mentality, they should not even be using those since it was created by dishonorable, sneaky, and treacherous Romulans.
I am glad that we can both agree that players should have more uniform options.
One final note, UN peacekeeping forces are drawn from organized militaries, yet they perform paramilitary "police actions". I think Starfleet blurs the line between an offical organized military force, and a paramilitary civilian police force as per the Geneva and Hauge Conventions. Argueably, standards and requirements therein should both be applied to Starfleet. Tactical, Security (Originally Red, not Gold), and Command personnel fall under the Offical Military guidlines and rules, and the Engineering and Science personnel should fall under the Civilian Paramilitary rules.
And why not? They use cloaking devices, and by using the "Don't hide" mentality, they should not even be using those since it was created by dishonorable, sneaky, and treacherous Romulans.
As I said, a different approach with ships. I don't know WHY, I think it is never stated, but Klingons rather "hunt" in ships, carefully selecting their prey while cloaked and eventually strike hard. On ground however they wear shiny armour and prefer hand-to-hand combat in an age where everyone has handheld phaser weapons. It is just that archaic, honorable touch unique to them - you can of course argue if it makes sense or not but this is what we can draw from the shows
One final note, UN peacekeeping forces are drawn from organized militaries, yet they perform paramilitary "police actions". I think Starfleet blurs the line between an offical organized military force, and a paramilitary civilian police force as per the Geneva and Hauge Conventions. Argueably, standards and requirements therein should both be applied to Starfleet. Tactical, Security (Originally Red, not Gold), and Command personnel fall under the Offical Military guidlines and rules, and the Engineering and Science personnel should fall under the Civilian Paramilitary rules.
You are right, ultimately Starfleet is composed of people from the federal worlds and I would think that most tactical/security personell originates from planetary militias. Although you have to keep in mind that the federal force of the UFP, Starfleet, is by definition no military. It is a very important part of the UFPs ethics not to field a military and the planetary militias are fairly limited to planetary duties. I had no objections whatsoever if we get the explanation that due to the war Starfleet is supported by a small number of militias introducing ships for federal species and costume options and I wouldn't say a word against Andorian militia in camouflage uniforms. We have no canon source on this case but it would be fine with me. I personally just consider it very important to not over-militarize Starfleet, as this is a fundamental principle of the franchise's spirit. Changing that we could really play just something else, at least I think so
If we're are going to be fighting on the ground, it would be a very very bad idea to still be wearing uniforms that would make us stick out like sore thumbs.
Usually, if the enemy sees Red on the battlefield, they guess that Red is the most important guy. Take out the Red guy, you've halted that unit.
It will be Red Shirt Syndrome all over again, with sometimes YOU being the Redshirt!
Give us camo so we can do the three Takes.
1.) Take Cover
2.) Take Aim
3.) Take over
And to those who dissent, do you REALLY want to cause a near genocide and mass collateral damage by firing ship weapons onto a planet? Think REALLY hard before shooting that photon, chroniton, or plasma torpedo down to the surface. If you guys have seen what it's done to ships, imagine what it can do to innocent people just trying to stay out of the way.
===post above is by cipher06===
EDIT: Closed for necroing an old thread. Remember, if a thread has been inactive for 30 days, you should not post to it. Feel free to create a new thread on the subject if you would like to discuss further ~BranFlakes
Comments
Nah, we're just waiting until your yellow back is turned.
*sharpens knife*
This option would spare me from having to see Starfleet captains running around in cocktail dresses. With something like that I wouldn't care if they include hawaiian leaf-skirts and coconut bikinis
Your part on uniforms is right, btw. Uniforms were representative and should inspire glory and fear in the enemy because they saw you already from afar. Until the napoleonic ages armies met face-to-face. It was the introduction of the light infantry which introduced moving in cover, unseen and strike in sensitive spots of enemy formations. This guerilla warfare ultimately became modern warfare where cover and camouflage are vital. In space, however, with hand held devices equalling present day detection technology the size of a building and even beyond that, you don't really need camouflage. See Klingons, who rather throw themselves in Hand-to--Hand combat wearing shining plate armour.
Ermmm this is what I'm talking about
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080503231842/memoryalpha/en/images/2/2b/Romero.jpg
when you speak of warhammer and space marines this is what you're talking about:
http://www.kollewin.com/EX/09-15-05/space_marine1.jpg
are we even debating the same topic?
We are, my example was just an overexaggeration of the many many requests for more and more military gear which I assume has its roots in the other sci-fi franchises which feature awesome military gear and battles as Warhammer 40k is the (intentional) tip of the iceberg.
But everything I said still applies. If you take a look at the MACOs, they are terran military of the pre-federation-days. Even in ENT, man saw the need for a peaceful approach of intergalactic outreach, think about how revolting the thought was when Archer learned that military personell should be stationed on the Enterprise.
UNFORTUNATELY, though, people didn't like Enterprise, which is why the creators thought that they have to model it around present events and work Islamic terrorists in there. To fight those, Starfleet got help by US Marines (MACOs) to save the day. If it wasn't for this story arc and intention to hop on the overly military/patriotic mood of the time, I am absolutely sure they had never invented MACOs in the first place since the pure concept of those guys conflicts with the spirit of Star Trek. It didn't save ENT, but people love and want "Space Marines" - see basically everything sci-fi in existence, be it Warhammer or Battlestar or Unreal or anything.
Please keep in mind I don't want to fight your opinion, I'm just stating why I think this is not a good idea. It is bad enough that Cryptic put the MACOs back into Star Trek though this would have NEVER happened. A elite task force yes, but not a 400-year-old MILITARY organisation. I'm glad we don't have camouflage right now, the bright armours/space suits are kind of okay.
I have no doubt that camouflage uniforms will find their way into the game, though. I just don't like the idea, but then again, look at the game. It is already more Mirror Universe Online than anything else
As I said, a different approach with ships. I don't know WHY, I think it is never stated, but Klingons rather "hunt" in ships, carefully selecting their prey while cloaked and eventually strike hard. On ground however they wear shiny armour and prefer hand-to-hand combat in an age where everyone has handheld phaser weapons. It is just that archaic, honorable touch unique to them - you can of course argue if it makes sense or not but this is what we can draw from the shows
You are right, ultimately Starfleet is composed of people from the federal worlds and I would think that most tactical/security personell originates from planetary militias. Although you have to keep in mind that the federal force of the UFP, Starfleet, is by definition no military. It is a very important part of the UFPs ethics not to field a military and the planetary militias are fairly limited to planetary duties. I had no objections whatsoever if we get the explanation that due to the war Starfleet is supported by a small number of militias introducing ships for federal species and costume options and I wouldn't say a word against Andorian militia in camouflage uniforms. We have no canon source on this case but it would be fine with me. I personally just consider it very important to not over-militarize Starfleet, as this is a fundamental principle of the franchise's spirit. Changing that we could really play just something else, at least I think so
The dirty/scuffed idea also sounds great as a toggleable layer.
If we're are going to be fighting on the ground, it would be a very very bad idea to still be wearing uniforms that would make us stick out like sore thumbs.
Usually, if the enemy sees Red on the battlefield, they guess that Red is the most important guy. Take out the Red guy, you've halted that unit.
It will be Red Shirt Syndrome all over again, with sometimes YOU being the Redshirt!
Give us camo so we can do the three Takes.
1.) Take Cover
2.) Take Aim
3.) Take over
And to those who dissent, do you REALLY want to cause a near genocide and mass collateral damage by firing ship weapons onto a planet? Think REALLY hard before shooting that photon, chroniton, or plasma torpedo down to the surface. If you guys have seen what it's done to ships, imagine what it can do to innocent people just trying to stay out of the way.
===post above is by cipher06===
EDIT: Closed for necroing an old thread. Remember, if a thread has been inactive for 30 days, you should not post to it. Feel free to create a new thread on the subject if you would like to discuss further