Can we Improve PvP?

jacknm1 · August 2013

As the Title suggests...we as the community can put ideas towards the Dev's, though likely they will never respond to our brain storming here or put them into practice. I feel i must pass along this idea, work out the kinks and then watch it fade into obscurity....At any rate, heres my Idea.

Make PvP more interesting By giving us mroe to gain but also something to Lose, Here's my thought on the matter:

Take the 20 man Starbase Defense and turn it into a PvP Scenario - 10 vs 10 FvF / KvK / FvK - its a Daily so can only be done once every 20 Hours

Only Able to start Via Private match, team members must all be in the same fleet to portray accurate Team Starbase. Teams can organize rules for the match before starting (i.e. no Consoles blah blah blah).

Winners gain 400 or w/e FM, 1440 Dilithium 30k XP, 100k EC's and random commodities for projects.

Losers 10k XP 10K Ec's and random commodities as "Loot" but also have to do a special Fleet projects...

If a Defeneding Team loses (I.e. Stabase is Destroyed) then they cannot do any more projects until the do a "Repair Project" that will take 20 hours to complete.

If Attacking Team loses they can no longer Participate in the Daily missions until they do a "Repair Project" for their "Ships" this also takes 20 hours.

This system can be recorded for a leaderboard. I.e. 6 Boards for each FvF / KvK / FvK, 3 for Attackers and 3 For Defenders, showing what fleets are doing better at what and who is dominating the boards.

A smaller 5v5 on a similar format can also be done, granting less rewards but also be quicker and have less of a loss.

Having the leaderboard based on your fleet player is much mroe accurate than having an Actual @handle leaderboard (due to cryptics Gamre statistics and Figures) and also promotes Team play.

Now this will probably get shot down but i think this would help PvP, its not a lot to lose. but giving at least something to lose will generate a bit more serious play in PvP.

I thought long and hard about it at work coz i was bored, but seemed to have lacked alittle on the details now as im tired. but like i said work out the TRIBBLE.

Feed back and let me know what you think

(Excuse the poor typing, im tired)

thegrimcorsair · August 2013

That's the perfect example of an idea that will achieve the exact opposite of your goal. No one would touch it just by virtue of the fact that it would be a huge setback to Starbase Development, alongside being yet another time-and-resource sink that could, in this case, be avoided by simply not doing it.

Get rid of the "You lost so you have to do a project" clause and make it a Daily Mission that gives, say, Dilithium+some other fairly valuable loot, and you'd be onto something, though.

supergirl1611 · August 2013

How to improve PvP 1st off i'd ban all special consoles form being used in the Arena. Only standard equipment. This would stop the calls for nerfs to special consoles that were clearly designed to be used in PvE against enemies with Hp in the hundreds of thousands or breaking 1 million rather than a escort with 49k hull calling foul because a special console dealt them high end damage.

Maybe even have a special armory where PvP equipment is stored to equip you're Captain and ship, so no one has any console/weapon advantage its all about piloting skills, ship build/Boff powers and timing of buff's or debuffs.

Public queues revamp so there's a choice of 1v1 2v2 3v3 5v5 ect. Apologies if this is already in place

Maybe have mini objectives within the PvP arena particularly ground where its not all about killing your opponent, you have a capture the flag scenario as well. Or interact stations which have to be held for a duration or 1st to activate x amount wins.

talzerotwo · August 2013

Make it vanilla pvp, everyone uses standard white gear :P. pver's pvping shouldn't die as quickly. :P

jacknm1 · August 2013

Those comments are just missing the point, who wants another boring daily, why PvP at all when theres not a lot to gain from it and nothing to lose? hence why a lot of the "Broken" Consoles are being used and abused.....

Giving something to lose is giving a reason to win, its a challenege, those that avoid it wont be put on a ranking system therefore wont have any standing and no one will take them seriously, just giving another daily wont happen, the devs will just look at it and go "No we wont gain money from that".

Giving something to lose actually ties into the Leaderboard system, making those fleets who are serious about pvp really work on their team composition and tacticsand gain higher ranks, those who dont want something to lose will stay away and not gain anything on the ranking system.

And those projects wont exactly cost a lot in terms of resources, really if the idea was taken seriously then it would be up to the devs, but somewhere in the region of 1K Fleet marks, 12K dilithium, 40K expertise and lets say some shield Generators would not exactly be breaking the bank....

and consoles and abilities that where designed to be used in PvE...name one, most of these consoles/doffs are designed for PvP, what use is a Scramble Sensor Doff in PvE...what use is TIF in PvE? none of these NPC enemies stand a chance against competent players even without these "PvE" Abilities...poorly designed/implemented they may be, but they are by no means designed for PvE.

And making PvP Vanilla wouldnt exactly solve anything either, would just make those who have spent the resources on the best gear not want to do it and make the matches ridiculously long, im all up for a 30 - 60 minute match now and again, but i dont want to be doing it everytime i have a match.

Unknown · August 2013

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capnmanx · August 2013

Having something to lose does not make things more interesting, it just makes them more painful. It would do nothing but make PvP even more exclusive than it already is; as nobody but the truly hardcore would ever play it.

wast33 · August 2013

just some ideas that hop into my mind:

- add "dome of doom" to c&h (-> bf2): within a given range around the base foes loose hull rapidly

- give pvp something unique, not obtainable by pve. y? easy: draw pve'ers for whome that something is too shiny to resist (hc collectors) and the simple fact that pvp'ers have to farm pve for stuff as well. they can't obtain it by pvp'ing :P...

i do like the idea of fleet challenges a lot. i don't like the idea of losing something, it more should be about to gaining something.
so f.e. the idea with different rewards in ammount seems a good way maybe?

and, to have said it: if u ask me it not should be a daily and (left the fact of fleet-action aside) only give fleetmarks for each participant, it should give mark-packs to choose from any mark kind.
that way it finally would be possible to achieve to get all of the better stuff just by pvping...
(btw: in pvp u can get to fight tholian and rom ships in one match. only omega not would fit it in any way.)
one can dream

jacknm1 · August 2013

I honestly think with something to lose it will strive people to get betetr and learn from their mistakes, again, its not a big loss. but a sense of loss is better than (Lets do this nothing happens if we lose).

But if thats not what everyone wants then fair enough, i havent gone all EVE online and said youll lose your ship.

And as for making it exclusive, its only exsclusive coz thats the way the community has made it. PvP fleets need to advertise more to recruit newbies and train them, bootcamp is a good iea, but if the fleets them selves dont do it and the "Vets" dont play games with them on a consistant basis they are gnna get stomped, and then not wanto to pvp.

Fleet vs Fleet, with a Fleet ranking system, and the possibility of Great rewards...but also a small loss, sense of loss...more determination to win.

mancom · August 2013

jacknm1 wrote: »

PvP fleets need to advertise more to recruit newbies and train them, bootcamp is a good iea, but if the fleets them selves dont do it and the "Vets" dont play games with them on a consistant basis they are gnna get stomped, and then not wanto to pvp.

This has already attempted by a high profile PVP fleet. It was called "Panda Cubs".

mustafatennick · August 2013

You lunatic most people's only mistake in pvp when new to it is just being there 3 or 4 tough pugs can put most off for life

All the balancing problems and lack of playing problems can be sorted instantly and really simply

- You have a beam, a dual beam bank, a cannon, a DC , a DHC in all the various versions but all common quality

- All consoles of science engineering and tactical are common quality

- no universal consoles at all whatsoever

This way people can pve to use all the gimmicky AMS heavy grav beam **** just pilot skill separating one from another

The doff system and lunatic rom Boffs would all need sorting somehow too but these two simple factors put into pvp would help out massively

especially for beginners as this way you wouldn't need to quit your job leave your wife and get your kids adopted just to grind enough this rep and that rep this much dilithium that amount of fleet shielding and what not just to even dare glimpse at the pvp ques

Unknown · August 2013

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jacknm1 · August 2013

and this is why cryptic will never do anything, coz you guys ask for EVERYTHING at ONCE. my idea was a step to improving PvP. Not a Complain about everything that needs to be fixed/balanced. so thanks for derailing this thread, go about playing boring broken PvP.

Can a Mod Please Close this Thread now. The Community obviously Doesnt Deserve any improvement

Unknown · August 2013

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jacknm1 · August 2013

skollulfr wrote: »

you dont six a dynamic system one thing at a time expecting it not to have knock-on effects.
the game needs mechanical changes that cant be done in vacuum in order for the changes to actually work.
especially if what needs doing is dumping the dead donkey rpg trinity which is only half implemented in the first place.

what does this even mean?

Mechanics need fixing, yes.

A lot things need adjustment, yes.

Asking for it all at once without providing some sort of business value to it, your just going to be spending all your time making non-sensical forum posts and complaining about things being broken without providing incentive or possible solutions.

mustafatennick · August 2013

jacknm1 wrote: »

and this is why cryptic will never do anything, coz you guys ask for EVERYTHING at ONCE. my idea was a step to improving PvP. Not a Complain about everything that needs to be fixed/balanced. so thanks for derailing this thread, go about playing boring broken PvP.

Can a Mod Please Close this Thread now. The Community obviously Doesnt Deserve any improvement

Your idea sucked it would have made people not want to play even more because if they got rofl stomped not only would there confidence and their pride shot to hell

You suggested that their whole fleets grinding which is a massive hassle anyway is set back even further

Plus people only suggested loads of ideas because loads needs fixing

jacknm1 · August 2013

mustafatennick wrote: »

Your idea sucked it would have made people not want to play even more because if they got rofl stomped not only would there confidence and their pride shot to hell

You suggested that their whole fleets grinding which is a massive hassle anyway is set back even further

Plus people only suggested loads of ideas because loads needs fixing

How would they get stomped if they organised the match privately against an equal opponent? (that they know will be a good fight against in a ranked match)

how does it suck to have Fleet vs Fleet PvP?

How is 1000 Fleet marks and 12k Dilithium (ideas for project Cost) a MASSIVE GRIND. At least i am thinking of things to actually expand and improve PvP.

You guys Continue to complain about PvP, about things that are broken, your obviously all PvE fans lol otherwise you could be doing something positive towards pvp other than moan moan moan to cryptic for which they will just ignore you coz there is no money it

Unknown · August 2013

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jacknm1 · August 2013

skollulfr wrote: »

the business insentive is customer retention, encentivising perchases people feel will be competitive and above all NOT DESTROYING THE GAME THEY ARE WORKING ON with a model that is causing an unchecked positive loop in their monetisation and leading to power creep.

if that is non-sensical to you, then, it is by definition, YOUR PROBLEM.:mad:

how the hell is it customer retention when the pvp community is like 5%, (i dont be pretend to have every single figure) but PvP is not a big deal for them, they keep the PvE'ers happy, my idea is getting more people into PvP with better rewards, a ranking system for Fleets not individual players.

Granted people do not like the loss Project Idea, so it wont happen, so what is there to pvp for, you tell me?

and how would anything i suggest be destroying the game? please exlain what you are saying....as what ive suggested wont make any sort of power creep, if you read my initial post correctly.

ocean1 · August 2013

I think a PvP Starbase Defense scenario needs to be put into STO, however there is a major flaw in your plan.

From the get go STO was made into a reward only system. The only loss in the game is time wasted. 1440 dilithium for a win Vs. 20 hour project for a loss = no one running scenario.

Sure a few of the diehard fleets will do it to get on the boards but it will not help PvP.

If you want to help PvP something needs to be done to bring in people that never PvPs or people that PvPs very little. That means: rewards that match or are better than PvE, forced PvP (very mad people), or a new system that effects people even if they do not PvP.

jacknm1 · August 2013

ocean1 wrote: »

I think a PvP Starbase Defense scenario needs to be put into STO, however there is a major flaw in your plan.

From the get go STO was made into a reward only system. The only loss in the game is time wasted. 1440 dilithium for a win Vs. 20 hour project for a loss = no one running scenario.

Sure a few of the diehard fleets will do it to get on the boards but it will not help PvP.

If you want to help PvP something needs to be done to bring in people that never PvPs or people that PvPs very little. That means: rewards that match or are better than PvE, forced PvP (very mad people), or a new system that effects people even if they do not PvP.

this is what i wanted, positive comments, my idea was a starting point, the rewards to loss could be balanced out so the Risk was worth the Gain.

i said 1440 dilithium as i know cryptic are quite stingy with their rewards, for good reason i know.

Bringing more PvP'ers is a good Idea, but unless there is something to PvP for, or else why do it at all, i know others are going to think that why, not everyone is satisfied with sayin (im the best y'all just suck).

Unknown · August 2013

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jacknm1 · August 2013

thank you for responding in a format i understand.

But i give up, the mechanics wont get fixed, i was hoping adding something like this into STO would create a Business model the devs could get behind and therefore have actual interest in improving the game play, something for the Existing player base to get rewarded for and new players to go "hey this looks new and interesting".

1st thing on my list would be the game engine on being able to display a certain amount of particles, you have 2 EWP and 2 Grav wells, you wont see them, thats too many particles for the game to render, so when people start adding pets to that, and then using Torp spread with the Omega rep torp. Massive lag ensues whilst game completely blows its mind due to all these particles spilling out over the side.

I get the lag, and i can run 3 Copies of this game at High settings without my computer straining if i wanted, if i can do Crysis 3 at 74 FPS on HIgh HD settings i can easily do this game...whilst it writes a book.

jacknm1 · August 2013

take away the loss and rewards, and keep the leaderboard, keep it a private match so rules can be arranged....is Fleet vs Fleet with a ranking system not a good idea?

ocean1 · August 2013

If you like your idea, then do not give-up on it due to game mechanics. Game mechanics are ever changing, for good and bad. Keep adding to it and expanding until you get a following or something better comes along.

Small reward change idea:
Fed vs. Fed and KDF vs.KDF - Get equal rewards win or lose. Dil, EC, FM (what ever the higher powers deem). No loss project, this is a simulated fight not a real one. This will get all levels of people in the fleet playing.

Fed vs KDF however needs to be a step up, with the winner getting the better deal. Perhaps the winner gets access to a special project. This would be the one with a 20 hour cool down.

maicake716 · August 2013

theres an old saying-

"you cant help those who won't help themselves"

cryptic wont help pvp, so us helping it is pointless.

jacknm1 · August 2013

maicake716 wrote: »

theres an old saying-

"you cant help those who won't help themselves"

cryptic wont help pvp, so us helping it is pointless.

then surely PvP is dead

skurf · August 2013

mancom wrote: »

This has already attempted by a high profile PVP fleet. It was called "Panda Cubs".

Just out of curiosity, how many recruits did y'all get through Panda Cubs to the main Sad Pandas fleet?

seansamurai1 · August 2013

maicake716 wrote: »

theres an old saying-

"you cant help those who won't help themselves"

cryptic wont help pvp, so us helping it is pointless.

This is very very true. Too many fleeties stuck in their ways, too many fleeties getting egos stroked by stomping pugs and too many using broken stuff to win. Yet all unwilling to drop it for a better experience for everyone.

Remember folks, a lot of the big PvP fleets are more entitled than the rest of us, so dont ever ever think you are allowed to have fun or a good fight in PvP. By god certainly dont think that your opinions count for anything.
If you arent in the big few, you aint got a voice, you aint got any right to have fun.

maicake716 · August 2013

seansamurai1 wrote: »

This is very very true. Too many fleeties stuck in their ways, too many fleeties getting egos stroked by stomping pugs and too many using broken stuff to win. Yet all unwilling to drop it for a better experience for everyone.

Remember folks, a lot of the big PvP fleets are more entitled than the rest of us, so dont ever ever think you are allowed to have fun or a good fight in PvP. By god certainly dont think that your opinions count for anything.
If you arent in the big few, you aint got a voice, you aint got any right to have fun.

?

my intention was that you should stop worrying about making the game better and just enjoy it for what it is.

Can we Improve PvP?

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