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uhmari
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Greetings Guys, Incoming are my pvp suggested upgrades to better Sto.
Logic and Reason
Teams Vs Non-Team.
When looking at this and talking to a great many players, I have found
that the majority want a separate cue system for premades, and randoms;
a few have even gone to the extreme of asking for pro's vs pro's etc.
Open World Vs Instanced Content
Open world content patch would be a great chore, Its something
i have been dwelling on for a great while now. Iv considered many
approaches and interviewed many players about it (and any tied in PvE side).
One of the fundamental problems i am having is deciding on what mechanic
should be the foundation of the conquest system. Iv considered many
approaches, Buying Territory, Renting it, Conquest of it (through Short battles)
Or even long-term conquest through more long-duration conflicts (over the course
of days).
I just cant help but the best solution Is what i demonstrated below.
Combat Revisions
After interviewing a great many people, I have come to the conclusion
that my previous conclusions were correct. The bar on pvp between
Pro and newb is way to high. Unanimously people agree upon this point.
When looking at combat, I am always left back to the skills being the breaking
point, though i think we should look at making cannons (for tac) ships, and Dual
beams (for Cruisers) more attractive.
Actual Suggested Mechanical Changes
Que System
I would like to add in a new Que System For Fleets.
I would set this system up on a ladder. The way it would work is, the best
rating (W/L Ratio) Would gain Rank 1. I would assign a Plus / Minus Value
To each (W/L). This would factor the value of each fleets rank.
I would Create a Seperate Tab in this area for Teams, and would
put a creation on it, In a similar way Arena Teams are made in WoW.
These ratings would differ from PvP fleet ratings.
Open World Content
I would create a new map, One that would include Outlaying territory.
This new content area (roughly up to 30 new sectors) would have a
PvE side to it as well (though i wont get into that) that would be free of the
pvp side (This would be new exploration content).
These sectors will show are conquerable parts on a map (possibly even making
the galaxy map interactable (being able to select, then "transwarp" to this sector" or
quadrant of space).
This area would be conquerable by players.
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/18/05/75/56/newmap10.jpg
Something like the above.
The grey area would represent blocks of sectors (2 joined per each arm, Min).
Players would enter this space, and patrol and interact with it like they do sirus sector (or others) with a twist. This zone is purely for PvP, if you are in it, you are open to death. There is no infinite respawn here either, this is pure, Hardcore PvP. If you die, you become disabled or incapacitated if you choose to respawn / release, you will be forced
out of pvp area, and you cannot get back into this area because transwarps
for these zones have a cool down (30 minutes) so you either sent out a distress signel
hoping someone will come, or you eat the timer (which is not bad in most cases you will be with your fleet).
Conquest of the actual systems is simple. Go there, Lay your Flag, Its yours. If they can take it from you (Via a space, and ground battle) they deserv it.
If you are attacking a planet that has been claimed, you first need to enter the system,
disable any defense satellites in orbit, Disable any planetary shields (special star-base projects, very costly, low Build timer) then disable transport scramblers (its a satellite, the natural defense of a planet, you just have to do a simple modulation quest/interaction with it get it matched right, and beam down to the planet).
once on the planet there is a capture console there, If you claim it, the system becomes yours, there is no rushing this, the only option is eliminate the other team.
Since you are all 1 death only (unless revived) you just eliminate them, then do
the long 1 minute modulation /interaction with the console. They beam to sector space, Your system.
You may also offer another line of defense in 1 system (lets call this the homeworld system). That is you may place your star-base in this area. It can be attacked, but the real version of it is back in fleet star-base sector. This will require the fleet leader to have
a special Panel to drop gear into. Star bases will have 4 shields, 8 weapon slots. they
will also receive 125% Shield regeneration and 150% Health. (30khp, 300 HPS)
So they will require some Pew Pew action to take them out.
On this station you will also find a great many quests including capturing other systems,
killing other players, and so forth.
Lastly, Fleets will be the place holders of territory in this space.
On this note, they may form up to 20 man squads.
Combat Revisions
The bar on new players vs vets is to high as mentioned. Lowering this is the objective of this part of the post. The way i'd recommend we do this is by lowering the differencial
of the bar. What i have in mind is the following
(this means any officer will have 4 skills, but can only use 1 per 30-60 second CD)
Skills will now have Classifications to their CD.
Engineers will now be granted all instant heal abilities, which will hold 60 sec Cds.
Some Tactical Skills will be nerfed (Debuffs/buffs)
Some Science Skills will be buffed (Shield regen effects) And some nerfed (some will get
a max Damage Mechanic, so that damage from that ability cannot exceed a specific amount; 15% Of the targets Max HP)
With any hope, this system will cause players to be intelligent about how they use their skills. This will also place the gear differential to have more meaning, as well as builds
diversifying.
Logic and Reason
Teams Vs Non-Team.
When looking at this and talking to a great many players, I have found
that the majority want a separate cue system for premades, and randoms;
a few have even gone to the extreme of asking for pro's vs pro's etc.
Open World Vs Instanced Content
Open world content patch would be a great chore, Its something
i have been dwelling on for a great while now. Iv considered many
approaches and interviewed many players about it (and any tied in PvE side).
One of the fundamental problems i am having is deciding on what mechanic
should be the foundation of the conquest system. Iv considered many
approaches, Buying Territory, Renting it, Conquest of it (through Short battles)
Or even long-term conquest through more long-duration conflicts (over the course
of days).
I just cant help but the best solution Is what i demonstrated below.
Combat Revisions
After interviewing a great many people, I have come to the conclusion
that my previous conclusions were correct. The bar on pvp between
Pro and newb is way to high. Unanimously people agree upon this point.
When looking at combat, I am always left back to the skills being the breaking
point, though i think we should look at making cannons (for tac) ships, and Dual
beams (for Cruisers) more attractive.
Actual Suggested Mechanical Changes
Que System
I would like to add in a new Que System For Fleets.
I would set this system up on a ladder. The way it would work is, the best
rating (W/L Ratio) Would gain Rank 1. I would assign a Plus / Minus Value
To each (W/L). This would factor the value of each fleets rank.
I would Create a Seperate Tab in this area for Teams, and would
put a creation on it, In a similar way Arena Teams are made in WoW.
These ratings would differ from PvP fleet ratings.
Open World Content
I would create a new map, One that would include Outlaying territory.
This new content area (roughly up to 30 new sectors) would have a
PvE side to it as well (though i wont get into that) that would be free of the
pvp side (This would be new exploration content).
These sectors will show are conquerable parts on a map (possibly even making
the galaxy map interactable (being able to select, then "transwarp" to this sector" or
quadrant of space).
This area would be conquerable by players.
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/18/05/75/56/newmap10.jpg
Something like the above.
The grey area would represent blocks of sectors (2 joined per each arm, Min).
Players would enter this space, and patrol and interact with it like they do sirus sector (or others) with a twist. This zone is purely for PvP, if you are in it, you are open to death. There is no infinite respawn here either, this is pure, Hardcore PvP. If you die, you become disabled or incapacitated if you choose to respawn / release, you will be forced
out of pvp area, and you cannot get back into this area because transwarps
for these zones have a cool down (30 minutes) so you either sent out a distress signel
hoping someone will come, or you eat the timer (which is not bad in most cases you will be with your fleet).
Conquest of the actual systems is simple. Go there, Lay your Flag, Its yours. If they can take it from you (Via a space, and ground battle) they deserv it.
If you are attacking a planet that has been claimed, you first need to enter the system,
disable any defense satellites in orbit, Disable any planetary shields (special star-base projects, very costly, low Build timer) then disable transport scramblers (its a satellite, the natural defense of a planet, you just have to do a simple modulation quest/interaction with it get it matched right, and beam down to the planet).
once on the planet there is a capture console there, If you claim it, the system becomes yours, there is no rushing this, the only option is eliminate the other team.
Since you are all 1 death only (unless revived) you just eliminate them, then do
the long 1 minute modulation /interaction with the console. They beam to sector space, Your system.
You may also offer another line of defense in 1 system (lets call this the homeworld system). That is you may place your star-base in this area. It can be attacked, but the real version of it is back in fleet star-base sector. This will require the fleet leader to have
a special Panel to drop gear into. Star bases will have 4 shields, 8 weapon slots. they
will also receive 125% Shield regeneration and 150% Health. (30khp, 300 HPS)
So they will require some Pew Pew action to take them out.
On this station you will also find a great many quests including capturing other systems,
killing other players, and so forth.
Lastly, Fleets will be the place holders of territory in this space.
On this note, they may form up to 20 man squads.
Combat Revisions
The bar on new players vs vets is to high as mentioned. Lowering this is the objective of this part of the post. The way i'd recommend we do this is by lowering the differencial
of the bar. What i have in mind is the following
- All Officers can no long share the same abilities (this means, you can have 2 Omega formations on your collection of officers)
- All Officers no have 1 Skill usage per Global Cool down
- All Officers are now only limited by Rank for how many skills they may have
- Ships no longer have Console restricted ranks.
(this means any officer will have 4 skills, but can only use 1 per 30-60 second CD)
Skills will now have Classifications to their CD.
Engineers will now be granted all instant heal abilities, which will hold 60 sec Cds.
Some Tactical Skills will be nerfed (Debuffs/buffs)
Some Science Skills will be buffed (Shield regen effects) And some nerfed (some will get
a max Damage Mechanic, so that damage from that ability cannot exceed a specific amount; 15% Of the targets Max HP)
With any hope, this system will cause players to be intelligent about how they use their skills. This will also place the gear differential to have more meaning, as well as builds
diversifying.
[SIGPIC]http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=98704615000&type=sigpic&dateline=1372675812[/SIGPIC]
Post edited by uhmari on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
You mean the half dozen people on ESD you bribed?
The same half dozen that more than likely don't even PvP because they A) don't understand the team mechanic or
Well bluntly they won't. You want to remove nearly all end game stuff, remove the skill required and on top of that, dumb the game down to being more simplistic than space invaders.
Stop talking s**t in every section going, quit the game and leave us be.
its a great idea, it would be cool to be launched in s8
the image is kinda
That's me !
This is true.
However, check the skills and builds section and the OP proves over and over and over that his idea of reasonable discussion is 'gah! You disagreed with my made up numbers and lack of evidence, you am troll!'
Strangely though I'm drawn to the threads, its that morbid fascination, like watching a train crash.
This is HIS video hes uploaded and linked.
Although its low res, you can still see everything thats happening, including his complete lack of skill and knowledge. Barely uses any buffs at all.
http://youtu.be/ZtesKCyF4KQ
Uhmari. You see those funny pointy icons, kinda like a combadge with star in them, they are called tac teams, use them, you will last longer, combine that with a shield buff and you will last longer still. You totally wasted an alpha too.
Id say I could easily still beat you with 3 tac consoles removed and only using one buff every 30 seconds.
He also seems to have engineering team and science team on his escort, which is never a good idea. At the end, instead of hitting tac team to clear the mark he had on him and redistribute shields, he uses science team when his shields were full and had no debuffs that ST could clear either so it had absolutely zero benefit, and then dies about 3 seconds later since his tac team is on cooldown and one of his facings goes down.
And it's interesting that he does this (if that is indeed him in the video) and then says this: "With any hope, this system will cause players to be intelligent about how they use their skills." The OP should work on improving his PvP skills rather than coming up with excuses and trying to change the game based on uninformed foundations.
In that vein, I will try to give the OP a tip or two based on the battle at the end of that video:
-Don't use RSP as soon as soon as someone shoots at you.
-Do use Tac Team when someone is focusing on you or when someone has used Fire on My Mark on you (that vertical red circle around your ship).
-Don't use Science Team or Engineering Team on an escort since it shares a global cooldown with Tactical Team, and it's much more useful to cycle 2 Tac Teams than it is to use Sci or Eng Team.
-Use heals that don't share cooldowns with Tac Team, like Hazard Emitters for hull, and Transfer Shield Strength and Emergency Power to Shields for your shields. On top of healing, these powers also grant you resistance, and when combined with Tac Team will allow your escort to survive for much longer.
-Only use RSP when your shield heals are gone and you are down to around 25% shields (it should be your last heal, not your first). You could also use it if you are getting decloak-alpha-striked and don't have a Tac Team available.
@DevolvedOne
hmm, ET and RSP on one of those means no EPtS. and the rest of that...
ya, no one who plays like that knows the game well enough to recommend any changes
Even if that was not the case This thread is now about how i pvp, Stick to the thread topics.
How you pvp is relevant to the topic you have created and the subforum that you happen to be posting in. It'd be like if I went into a pro football training camp, told the coach he was doing it all wrong and suggested he switch to some ludicrous system that I had devised. Then when asked for my credentials I proceed to show him a peewee league football game that I coached where I ran quarterback sneaks every down. Then I tell him that that's not how I normally coach though and that I have a pro football team that I've actually won the Super Bowl with.
I'm sure he'd take all of my suggestions about changing his coaching style very seriously...
...and you were looking for 1-shots by flying in at full-impulse, overshooting your target, and hitting him with 3 turrets at 10 weapons power as you fly past him? I'm afraid you'll be looking for quite some time.
@DevolvedOne
Everything in the game has already been balanced around a death meaning little. I play a game with no respawns (MWO) and this mechanic can lead to major frustration. Such a mechanic also leads to over-cautiousness on the part of players.
Furthermore, such a thing will likely lead to even more elitism on the part of those with more ability. As it is, even with ability to respawn, PvE teams are not happy with a less capable person on their team. With the lack of respawns, teams will be even more handicapped with a less capable person on their team. Also, no-respawns will lead to a scenario where a single mistake by a single player can lead to that player's death and, due to match now being 4v5, will also probably lead to the loss of the team.
As for your combat revisions, I do not like them at all. From a practical resource allocation standpoint, they make little sense as Cryptic would have to destroy nearly every mechanic they've already worked on, and do a lot more work coming up with new functions for every BoFF ability and rebalance it all. The amount of work that would have to go into this is tremendous, and would definitely be better used for other things. What you're proposing is an entirely different game.
Your revisions taken on their own are not particularly effective either. What you have created would destroy a major part of the differences between ships, as all of them would have access to the same level of abilities. The only difference would be in the number of a particular type of ability that ship would have.
Also, what you are doing is amplifying the effect of consoles and increasing P2W factor. As it is, many consoles give what is effectively a free BoFF ability, e.g. Vent Theta, Team Fortress, etc. In our current state, at the very least, we have the free space to retain counters that we can hold in reserve. In your suggested mechanic, this would be far less doable. Also, having an additional Boff ability would become a proportionately larger advantage. This would dramatically increase the proportionate benefit of mounting universal consoles, increasing the benefit gained from paying real money and thus increasing P2W factors, which no one would want.
Also, increasing gear differential is not a good thing. As it is, new players can be at least competent in PvP, as the most important part of a build is the Boff abilities, and not gear quality. Instead of knowing the best abilities to slot, the player now also needs to know what gear to mount. This places another layer of the game behind a wall of veteran's knowledge, which will not be good for narrowing the gap between newbie and pro. Furthermore, the newbies would have to take the time to slowly grind out equipment, and possibly even pay for equipment if gear was made more important. This would not bode well for making PvP more easily participated in.
Also, with 1 skill per officer, it is true that you weaken offense. However, you should also note that you are weakening defense by a similar amount. Hence, very little, if anything, would change with regards to general survivability.
The changes you suggest would not do very much to make players more intelligent about use of their skills. The problem is not intelligence. It is knowledge. Players do not have the necessary knowledge to pick good builds because the game does not give it to them. Your suggested changes would not make a difference in this matter. Players would still pick lousy abilities with lousy synergy because they do not know that something better exists.
The answer to narrowing the gap is not to dumb down the system and throw out everything we have. It is to increase knowledge among those who do not know. Newbies being beaten by pros is a part of every PvP game ever made. However, good games provide ways for the newbies to learn and train themselves to face the pros. This is where STO is weak.
Whew, OK. To summarise, your combat mechanic changes would do little to create the changes you mention. They would also require an extremely heavy investment on the company's part. Due to having so much cost for so little benefit, I emphatically disagree with the changes you suggest.
I really should stop keying out essays on Internet forums. It's a waste of my time.
I agree, but the reason for this is becaues mechanically speaking the pvp is broken
this forces players to be even more competitive, they have to be in order to pvp.
its amazing there is still pvp, it shows that some people really want this in game
which is a defining factor to me that this will be successful if given some attention
and some tweaks/changes.
But resolving this issue, the will be less stressed about this, you will see less people leave
and over all the quality will improve, and the tension will ease. However, it will never
go away because well people want to win, simply put.
In terms of Hardcore play, Its great, It gives a means of realism, i think it will work here
typically i am against it, But i really believe it will have a very reaslistic, and good impact on pvp. Yes people will be cautious, but that is where tactics will develop, and the pvp will take flight onto a whole never level.
If this is addressed to skills then No. Because all three ships will have multiple officers
that apply to it, so that tac ship will also do more damage, the engie more tank
and the sci more cc/heals. this will only improve that because of the removal of the levels on skills, they could now have for example, All 4 skills be in captain rank.
This means that diversity will sore, and caution about spam with it; causing the
games combat to be support by skills rather then lead by it.
Actually It really wont, Yes it has that change, But not that effect. Because damage
is now 50% less through skills, The tank will have 3 skills to counter 50% of that previous damage, this will improve tanking on cruisers (in fact i think it may be to much, so that we may have to increase the CD rate on the engie-healing skills)
The problem is people propagate for pvp, that the ignorance must die until they learn
what the knowledgeable know. This is the issue, To resolve this you just take away the room for ignorance, because its a more practical and logical solution, rather then hoping people iwll just go off and read a wall of text or sit down with someone. This solution also just flat out removes that massive bar between the new player, and vet, and all of that Silliness like 1 shotting, perma cc et that comes with it.
The system can be simulated with out the level changes, You can cause the balance from
- 1 skill per officer per GCD (30 sec)
This one change will cause a positive effect on the pvp.
The rest is butter, But i think it helps improve diversity.
whe it comes to profit you have to understand that MANY people want to pvp, they just refuse to do so because of the current mechanics (being owned over and over unfairly).
The future of the games PVE side (which i believe can be twisted into the same content as pvp) Is Exploration. the best way to do this is allow the players to create that content. The most sought out thing
in my interviews was learning and interacting with new races.
This system allow the players to create a dynamic atmosphere (where exploraiton is always changing, and conflict always rising, that never depends on the devs
to patch in new stuff. and potentially can lead to a faster way of the races designed (Borg, Dominion) being added to the game if, for example the devs just added the ships, then all that would need to be done is get in the character editor, make a dominion guy, and boom, You have dominion.
The amount of speed that would come from that to create so many unique races, would largely just depend on the graphics team and their ability to get it quickly integrated into the game (with the coders).
The focal point is to
Allow players to create content (Races).
Have those races be injected into spawn locations
Have those races be intractable for both PvE and PvP
Said Races have a life cycle, they die off, and rise up (depending on some player-related mechanic) For example, the more quests the more it expands, And it continiously contracts its owned space, as a counter weight, if players stop questing with it,
it dies out (or conquest) So it depends on the players to defend it, or play with it for survival
Being beaten repeatedly is standard for any game until they learn the ropes. Look at any other MMO.
We shall have to agree to disagree on this part. Dumbing down and removing depth is, IMO, never a good thing for a game. Take chess for example. To be good at it, a player must learn, think and strategise, and this is what makes the game fun. You wouldn't expect a new person to sit down, and within a few sessions, be capable of being an even match for a grandmaster. This is in effect what you are advocating. Essentially, what you are trying to do is transform PvP from a competitive game into a casual one. If you remove room for ignorance by removing knowledge-based mechanics, you are removing the complexity and diversity that makes this game good. Single-shotting and consistent CC only exist because of players who are ignorant, and either have not learnt or refuse to learn.
Removing the bar between new player and vet is actually not a good idea. Making it smaller, yes, that is a good goal, but removing it completely? That would mean that there is no room for exploration of mechanics, no room for development, no room for growth. True, you might get an influx of players at first, but you would then see many leaving because of the inability to expand.
I'm sorry, but this is a fundamental disagreement on my part. The basic mechanics of play are actually sound, in my opinion. There is no need to change the underlying mechanics. If you went back to Season 4 or just before/after F2P, PvP was actually in a fairly decent state, except for bugs. It was only after lockboxes, rep, and fleet equipment came into the picture that things started going wrong.
What I'm primarily disagreeing with is your fundamental assertion that dumbing down the game as a whole is better than a person improving his or herself to be good. That is something I cannot accept, and I believe this is why you are eliciting so much flak from the community. I will not support this.
Yes and as it should be, just at this degree, where 80% Of the pvp population
shuns pvp.
In chess everything is a 1 shot, In chess, there is no tank, no cc. lets not
forget this. there in my opinion is a serious lack of what chess has in common with Sto (Strat, Tactics). Its the same old washed up, Use this skill cycle. Rather strategic play.
I'd love to see the pvp evolve so that cruisers are nasty, and feared, and stay away from by sci and Tactical ships. A sort of Captial ship in the game.
Then let the others do either support or dps, but the major battle be cruiser ran.
I wish there was a pvp thread mechanic, that forced a player to attack an engie for a set amount of time. call it like "Locked targeting systems" that locks your target onto you (a taunt). This would help engies excell on their role, and let the others do theirs for healing and dps.
This would evolve tactics, so that tank cruisers would push into an enemy line, and start taunting so the tacticals can go in and pop them with their dps with out having to worry about the rival cruisers pew pew killing them.
It would be interesting to modify beams in a way that would make them do more damage to cruisers, and less to Tactical ships. ( say like a 120%(vs cruiser) and 80% (vs Tactical) difference)
and start to throw Sci vessels into that to stop targeting etc.
How about, no. Let me shoot who I want to shoot. Let's not just turn this game into cruisers online, K?
Yeah, no. Cruisers are already going to tank and beams still don't do much against cruisers. An extra 20% for beams vs cruiser won't make a difference in the world. On the flipside, cruisers will be even more strained to kill escorts because they won't be doing as much damage to them.
It would with the skill revisions.
because they would not be able to Spam heals.
this would soften their tank some, and pure more stress
on sci for healing (which will get some buffs)
i think cruisers tank is a little overpowered, and it needs to come down
guastamate, 10-15%
Lowering yes, removing it no.
I't should not be x10-15 Damage per a damge, and x 1000-1500% DPS, thats for sure.
Dps of a vet should not exceed 50% Of the newbs total damage/dps.
In other words, If i do 1000 dps, the pro shouldent do more then 1500
If i last 1 minute, they shouldent last more then 1 minute 15 seconds.
All officers will be restricted to 1 skill of its type of all officers ( so in other words, no double skills across your officers; No double tactical teams, just 1).
All officers will have a CD instead of the skill. that means you get 1 skill every 30-45 Seconds.
this means, the current rate of skill usage is 50% (half) as much as it use to be.
Kills 50% Of the burst damage of ships, 50% Of the tank, and 50% Of the CC
What we will need to do is balance some of the skills out to be good. For example
I think a few goods moves are as follows
Remove Target subsystem from beam skills.
Make rapid fire reduce the CD rate of the cannons from 5 sec, to 3 Seconds for 15 seconds.
Fix the spam all over the place of Scatter/torpedo spread (just make 1 ball/torp that does a aoe shock wave).
Buff the regeneration effects of Sci vessel.
now that Sci vessel is the only ship with target subsystems it will be more attractive
and deadly in combat.
Buff the duration of subsystems down from those skills by 5 or 10 seconds, And
(im not sure if this is the case) but they now take effect through shielding)
Directed Energy Modulation (the engineering Penetration skill for beams) will be come tactical Deals Bonus damage to shielding (only) by 25% for 10 seconds.
Turn all tactical formations in to Aura effects, that buff allies with in 3500 Meters (people cant be bother to target a friend).
They will do the following
Alpha: 5% Critical strike Chance, 10% Damage to allies
Beta: - 35 All Resistance, - 10% speed to enemies with in 3500 meters
Delta: + 25 all resistance to shielding +10 % Hp to shielding to allies
Omega: 10% Bonus to speed, 7 Agility to allies
https://twitter.com/Flamin_Gaming
Igniting You Passion For Gaming!
Please, someone, ANYONE, kill this thread with fire. It's been necroed, so there's a REASON to!
Let me get this straight. You think premades should all switch to playing pool?:eek:
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Don't forget low hull + GDF is great. Also micro managing speed levels increases turn.
Two things that could have brought some hurt on that mogai or w/e Rom ship it was.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
id be down for this...
although id hate to see the power creep in the pool balls/chalk/sticks/tables....
Do you even Science Bro?
The Power Of Torm Compels You!
Ps necro thread
===post above is by talzerotwo===
EDIT: Closed for necroing an old thread. Remember, if a thread has been inactive for 30 days, you should not post to it. Feel free to create a new thread on the subject if you would like to discuss further
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