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Forums > Home› Ten Forward

Vulcans and Romulans: Could there ever be a family reunion?

captclazoruscaptclazorus Member Posts: 377 Arc User
edited August 2013 in Ten Forward
The Romulans just have some many different ideals from the Vulcans. The Romulans are like the ancient Vulcans very Passionate, everything modern Vulcans rejected and now they are even genetically and biologically different from the Vulcans. Why would they want to unite?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Star Trek: Rubicon" Season 1, Season 2 A new era, a new time, a new crew, a new ship, a new mission...
"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment because it will never come again."- Jean-Luc Picard
Post edited by captclazorus on

Comments

  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Because they still share their pointy ears and green blood?
    maxvitor wrote: »
    Nerf is OP, plz nerf
    That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.

    I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    The Roms split from the Vulcans in the 4th Century, so they've only been segregated from each other for about 2,100 years in this timeline. 2,000 years might seem like a lot of time to people but on the genetic scale it's quite minor.

    It's the social differences - such as the differences between someone who grew up in China versus someone in the US - rather then the genetic differences that separate Roms and Vulcans. It was the social differences that Spock was trying to re-acquaint the Roms with.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • wombat140wombat140 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Impression I always got was that the Romulans were the group who fled the planet in horror at what the rest of their species were trying to turn themselves into (and you can kind of feel for them), and spent the next 900 years aiming above all Not To Be Like That... so I agree, it seems odd that any of the Romulans would want a reunion (or the Vulcans either - after all, THEIR point of view is that it's behaving like Romulans that almost finished off their planet). Maybe it's just that they'll take up with anyone sooner than go back to the Tal Shiar.
  • captclazoruscaptclazorus Member Posts: 377 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    .
    The Roms split from the Vulcans in the 4th Century, so they've only been segregated from each other for about 2,100 years in this timeline. 2,000 years might seem like a lot of time to people but on the genetic scale it's quite minor.

    It's the social differences - such as the differences between someone who grew up in China versus someone in the US - rather then the genetic differences that separate Roms and Vulcans. It was the social differences that Spock was trying to re-acquaint the Roms with

    My question is how they developed that cranial V if there are only minor differences.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Star Trek: Rubicon" Season 1, Season 2 A new era, a new time, a new crew, a new ship, a new mission...
    "I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment because it will never come again."- Jean-Luc Picard
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    captclazorus wrote: »
    .

    My question is how they developed that cranial V if there are only minor differences.
    Perhaps the V Vulcans are the ones who had the biggest disagreement with Surak. Don't know. Heck, we learn in Enterprise that the Mind Meld wasn't as common as we were led to believe in TOS. We never even knew there was such a thing as a black Vulcan until Tuvok showed up. :)

    Species diversity could be just as common on Vulcan as it is on Earth.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
    edited August 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    Perhaps the V Vulcans are the ones who had the biggest disagreement with Surak. Don't know. Heck, we learn in Enterprise that the Mind Meld wasn't as common as we were led to believe in TOS. We never even knew there was such a thing as a black Vulcan until Tuvok showed up. :)

    Species diversity could be just as common on Vulcan as it is on Earth.

    plus we learned in Diane Duane's non-canonical writings that the nictitating membrane was not universal to the species at first and allowed one tribe an advantage to dominate the others. So we've at least one example where a trait began with a smaller population and eventually dominated.

    It might even be explained to be a fashionable cosmetic surgery modification introduced into the Romulan society. We've a real life example with the South Korean women whom I've read are culturally so obsessed with adding an eyelid fold via cosmetic surgery, that it "has become as common as going to the dentist".

    Frankly, I'd like to see a series at some point show Romulans with the forehead ridge and ones without, and let the in-show explanation be that it is a dominant but not universal trait, like hair color or big ears or such. Allows for both styles of Romulans from all the old series.


    Back to the OP question...I think a common fallacy with Star Trek is to consider a species as moving and acting as one. Like humans, there will be a lot of viewpoints and variations. So yes, I think there could be a rejoining, but from a subset of the full Romulan population. Not the whole.
  • gonjaagonjaa Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Oddly enough, I've always felt the Vulcans are the biggest barrier to reunification.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    steamwright wrote: »
    Back to the OP question...I think a common fallacy with Star Trek is to consider a species as moving and acting as one. Like humans, there will be a lot of viewpoints and variations. So yes, I think there could be a rejoining, but from a subset of the full Romulan population. Not the whole.

    Cue D'Tan and the New Romulans.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
  • captclazoruscaptclazorus Member Posts: 377 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Species diversity could be just as common on Vulcan as it is on Earth.

    Maybe Vulcan genetics in new environments is able to evolve faster?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Star Trek: Rubicon" Season 1, Season 2 A new era, a new time, a new crew, a new ship, a new mission...
    "I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment because it will never come again."- Jean-Luc Picard
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    In a book about Vulcan before Surak, there seemed to be more mutations than humanity like certain Vulcans had the genetic ability to kill people with their minds. While reunification is possible due to the presence of Vulcan/Romulan hybrids, it won't be as easy as it is on Earth.
  • erikmodierikmodi Member Posts: 144 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    It could certainly happen.

    Romulans and Vulcans are more alike than anyone (especially themselves) will want to admit. Watching Romulans onscreen, they do keep a tight reign on their emotions, holding to a kind of "poker face" to prevent others from knowing what they're thinking or feeling. This has less to do with the high-minded ideal of "divorcing oneself from unreliable emotion," as the Vulcans do, and more with keeping outsiders in the dark as to their true motives, but it is a similarity. Likewise, Vulcans turned from emotion precisely because they came to believe that their race would not survive otherwise. . . a point the Romulans clearly disprove. Vulcans could learn quite a bit about how to relate to others on an emotional level, without compromising the emotional control they hold so dear. And Romulans could learn a lot from Vulcans about reclaiming the honor and forthright dealing the Romulan Empire was supposed to have been founded on.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    captclazorus wrote: »
    Maybe Vulcan genetics in new environments is able to evolve faster?
    Anything is possible, but why waste time on idle speculation? Heck, Roms could be augmented Vulcans, or Vulcans could be augmented Roms - their logic demanded they make themselves physically and mentally superior to the V-heads who fled. :)

    Ideally, as we understand genetics, 2,000 years is not enough time for natural evolution to make major changes in a species. Black people didn't become black in 2,000 years. Asians didn't develop their eyes in 2,000 years, etc. Your species can get taller as diets improve, your lifespan can increase based on access to medicines, but those aren't significant changes - and certainly wouldn't matter to a species who had access to interstellar travel; as you expect them to have access to proper nutrition and medicine if they can travel between stars.

    What we currently see with Vulcans and Romulans is a stylized interpretation of their differences - IE, so you can easily tell them apart on the screen. 20 years from now Roms could look very different simply because the producers at that time wants them to look different - as in the Klingon changes.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    The main difference between Romulans and Vulcans besides the whole logic and emotions thing is them being on different planets for centuries. The Romulans had to adapt to Romulus and it is uncertain how much change they underwent over the centuries due to them being on Romulus. Spending a couple of generations on Mars should cause some serious differences between Martians and Earthlings. Both are human races and can likely crossbreed, but there is no telling what a child from Martian and Earthling parents would end up as.
  • nylsianylsia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    captclazorus wrote: »
    .

    My question is how they developed that cranial V if there are only minor differences.

    Inter-breeding with the Remans?
  • kain9primekain9prime Member Posts: 739 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    There's no real point to Romulans reuniting with Vulcans or "repatriating" themselves to Vulcan unless they want to BE like Vulcans. The two are fundamentally different in so many ways. The only acceptable method of reunification between Romulans and Vulcans is via conquest of Vulcan. Anything else is fodder...
    The artist formally known as Romulus_Prime
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Just my .2c... In the TNG episode with the Protocol-Vulcans, they had the same ridge as TNG Romulans (and many ToS Romulans wore helmets so they plausibly could have had ridged foreheads beneath the helmets) I've wondered before if the division between Surak's followers, and those who marched beneath the raptor's wings, was as much a racial division as a merely political difference of opinion, with a handful on either side of the racial divide sympathising with the other. This would explain why modern Vulcans don't display the ridge (they chose to leave Vulcan and became Romulans) but why there were the ToS Romulans who 'still looked like' modern Vulcans...
  • captclazoruscaptclazorus Member Posts: 377 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Have you ever thought about how it is that each species got there names and how these are human words? Maybe the inhabitants of Pollux met the Vulcans on their journey.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Star Trek: Rubicon" Season 1, Season 2 A new era, a new time, a new crew, a new ship, a new mission...
    "I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment because it will never come again."- Jean-Luc Picard
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    captclazorus wrote: »
    Have you ever thought about how it is that each species got there names and how these are human words? Maybe the inhabitants of Pollux met the Vulcans on their journey.
    The species got their names because that's what Gene, and the writers he hired, named them. Let's not confuse the reality of a reason with the meta-fictional. :)

    We can spend way too much time throwing around "maybe" this or that. When you start using maybe then anything can work. Maybe the Q changed the appearance of Vulcans and removed the V because one angered him at some point. :) Maybe is meaningless.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • gonjaagonjaa Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    The species got their names because that's what Gene, and the writers he hired, named them. Let's not confuse the reality of a reason with the meta-fictional. :)

    We can spend way too much time throwing around "maybe" this or that. When you start using maybe then anything can work. Maybe the Q changed the appearance of Vulcans and removed the V because one angered him at some point. :) Maybe is meaningless.

    "Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
    - Voltaire
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • connortreeves67connortreeves67 Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    Perhaps the V Vulcans are the ones who had the biggest disagreement with Surak. Don't know. Heck, we learn in Enterprise that the Mind Meld wasn't as common as we were led to believe in TOS. We never even knew there was such a thing as a black Vulcan until Tuvok showed up. :)

    Species diversity could be just as common on Vulcan as it is on Earth.

    Also they showed a black Romulan in the Star Trek 2009. I know that one's an alternate timeline and yadda yadda yadda, but i just wanted to add that for example.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    connortreeves67 wrote: »
    Also they showed a black Romulan in the Star Trek 2009. I know that one's an alternate timeline and yadda yadda yadda, but i just wanted to add that for example.
    That wasn't the first time. :P
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    markhawkman wrote: »
    That wasn't the first time. :P
    It's not that he was black. He was just slowly being poisoned by the Tal Shiar and so his skin looked darker. :D
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
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