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STO should be challenging.
jumpingjs
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
By the title, I mean more challenging and brain engaging.
I will elaborate further for everyones benefit (STFs are an example):
STFs are easy. Granted it can be hard to tank a cube, but the damage output if rediculous.
Each shot should damage you, but not to that excessive point, like it is now.
In-fact, in each and any mission, you kill so many enemies, it is silly in many respects.
When you go in an STF, there ought to be a subtle puzzle or complex something, which is why I really like Khitomer Vortex. It requires more thought than Infected Gateway.
For this, I think back to Star Trek Legacy, where you did kill many enemies, granted, but it was not super easy, and there was no where near as many ships to kill as in STO. Even Borg cubes, would deal a non-silly amount of damage, heavy ... yes, but not a silly amount.
Something that would not insta-kill or take you from 80% straight to 3%.
DISCUSS! (I love saying that :cool:)
And as an extra question, why does the STO (not all but I have been told that quite a few) like it easy?
Now I know this is a casual game, but if my ideas were implemented, it should not make the game hardcore, or at least, if I have explained it to you guys correctly, it should not.
I will elaborate further for everyones benefit (STFs are an example):
STFs are easy. Granted it can be hard to tank a cube, but the damage output if rediculous.
Each shot should damage you, but not to that excessive point, like it is now.
In-fact, in each and any mission, you kill so many enemies, it is silly in many respects.
When you go in an STF, there ought to be a subtle puzzle or complex something, which is why I really like Khitomer Vortex. It requires more thought than Infected Gateway.
For this, I think back to Star Trek Legacy, where you did kill many enemies, granted, but it was not super easy, and there was no where near as many ships to kill as in STO. Even Borg cubes, would deal a non-silly amount of damage, heavy ... yes, but not a silly amount.
Something that would not insta-kill or take you from 80% straight to 3%.
DISCUSS! (I love saying that :cool:)
And as an extra question, why does the STO (not all but I have been told that quite a few) like it easy?
Now I know this is a casual game, but if my ideas were implemented, it should not make the game hardcore, or at least, if I have explained it to you guys correctly, it should not.
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
I hope STO get's better ...
I hope STO get's better ...
Post edited by jumpingjs on
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So yeah, I agree with your statement that the game should include this stuff, but would also argue that it's already included in the game.
And we set up our massive resistance and power setups to counter the high damage and durability in the first place. So it's a circle.
No matter what 'puzzle' you set to the playerbase, it will become routine and 'un-challenging' no matter what. It will not engage your brain, you'll just be doing things 'by the numbers'. More than this, it will cause issue; the playerbase will not be kind, will not teach, they will slam people who don't get it or who aren't up to it. All playerbases act so. They do so now with things regarded 'easy'. In truth, it is not 'easy', you just understand it.
'Challenge' is a very hard thing to provide. The initial question is 'who are you trying to test?'. The new player who does not understnad, or the old hands that do? And then, how are you going to do it? The Crystalline Entity is a challenge; it calls for Science to step up somewhat to keep things under control(Deal with Recrystallise, catch shards via Gravity Well), it requires awareness of a lot of things that are not the main target(Shards, Tholians to an extent), it requires massive amounts of damage, especially given it's resistant to energy weapons and a lot of special effects don't work on it. Yet I imagine you'd call it 'easy'.
For myself i started doing a foundry mission (only for fun) but found it rather challenging to make a story actually "work". It might be an idea to make something new in the foundry, you'll never know what you can if you don't try.
For me, it was a good challenge and experience so far.
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
However not so much for the puzzle thing especially in group settings.
It's bad enough that it takes so long to get into a group and wait for the loading screens but to implement a puzzle when we don't have the benefit of the technology that our characters do to even begin to make it happen more quickly is simply not going to happen.
Even NW which is based off of DnD could not implement a serious puzzle option because of the limitations of the players in the mmo environment. I think realistically by the time this happens in games, we'll have holodecks irl.
Now if you randomized that, so on any given mission the correct order of repair would change, that wouldn't exactly be a puzzle, just a 25% chance to get it done easy and a 75% to get annoyed.
The principle I'm trying to get at is that ANY puzzle that is static in an MMO will cease to be a puzzle after the first person figures it out. If you want compelling/subtle/puzzling gameplay (which I would love to see) you need to make whatever puzzle or situation you create dynamic and somewhat random in implementation.
That's one of the reasons I loathe the Borg STFs. They are not dynamic at all. They are rote and scripted. The Red Alerts, the ground missions like Mine Trap and Big Dig, even SB24 and fleet alerts all offer some variety and dynamism, because even if the goal/concept is the same every time, it doesn't feel like you're re-treading the same path as enemies are mobile, and if you take a left here, or dodge up there, that puts you in a different spot later and you encounter the new enemies over here and not over there.
In an STF, the borg are static, and the tactics are static, the only fun or dynamism comes from a Donatra at the end, when you don't know when or where she'll pop up and try to smack you.
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
More often then not when something is considered to hard by the majority of the masses its nerfed...or in WoW's case after all of the serious raiders have finished a raid they tend to add a large player buff later on to the raid.
That's easy, go play Eve Online.
...But the cries to the devs about blocking 'lowbies' when the PUGS blow the mission are even more fun to read.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Exactly. The only way to make STFs "hard" now is to run on bad toons with sub-standard gear or lower tier ships, just for the sake of it.
This doesn't appeal to me, because it's still going to be the same thing I've done a million times before - it'll just take longer. Not really my idea of a "fun" kind of hard, when the only reason most of us to STFs is because we want easy dil. Not because they're fun or challenging.
Kirk's Protege.
I have been playing for some time. and I still have not found this insta kill everybody is talking about all the time. sure the unimatrix in red alerts and hive have some kick a$$ weapons but with all the fighting going on around it you can hardly call it an insta kill. and that's the only thing I have found that even remotely resembles the gripes. but even with them after time and equipment and skills are unlocked those are not even complete kills for all. i think truly you are never gonna stop the criers from crying. people just need to learn that some mission are gonna be too hard for them at their current specs and that alone should give them something to strive for, instead of crying that things are too hard, or in some cases too easy.
in short if its too easy move to a harder mission. if it too hard go back down a notch until you get better then try again. i think elite mission should only be accessed once a person has gotten the ops on the regular version 10 times. even pros can mange 10 runs on a new toon, for the advantage of keeping the newer people that do not know any better out of the ring.
I'm also a firm believer it's nonsense. Only instakills I know of are the bugged lances in Hive. Borg don't one-****, you let a shield facing get low and was hit by a small plasma torp. Move on, be better with your TT.
Kirk's Protege.
"Instakills" is when you get like 30,000 damage to the hull from a torpedo. You may survive it, you may not. It just is really annoying.
I hope STO get's better ...
so you are saying that the cry babies have even nerfed the word insta kill? it used to mean you were instantly killed.
heh ....:cool:
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
If you want a challenge that does not involve PvP replay story mission on elite with common lower quality gear and ship. Don't use any duty officers on active duty. You can also do that with Elite STF missions.
This.
I mean, you if you get a 30k hit on your hull then you should die. A 30k torpedo hit is perfectly acceptable, have some shields up next time.
Kirk's Protege.
This. PvP is where the real challenge is. PvE will never be as dynamic or as challenging as PvP can be. That's why there should be more in this game. . .but that's a different discussion.
Loading up on fleet weapons and grinding out a faction rep space set is not challenging...
Challenge means nothing when the average play experience grows so dull you fall asleep playing...
Its all really about fun and that's sorely lacking over time.
Woops forgot to include Danatra's Scimitar which can do upwards of 250k dmg from Thalaron pulse, and also fire off on occasion in 1-2 seconds of charging instead of the full 12 seconds. And the Tholian flagship sometimes pops me for 100k+, but not as often as Danatra or the borg.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
The base damage is about 80k damage, but with low shields it can be like 30k.
Either way, a torp to my hull gets me from 88% to about 3%.
Then ... BOOM
I hope STO get's better ...
I like puzzles and every endgame mission has a very basic one which is fine the first couple of times but some more complex ones here and there would be nice. That said the NPCs lack any sense of self preservation, Squaresoft in 1998 managed that at least (see Final Fantasy 7) I measure difficulty as 'how hard is it to overcome an obstacle' so for me I would like to give NPCs some defensive skills and and some disables to impede/negate my attempts to defeat them.
But at the very least they could raise the minimum damage output of NPCs to the point where T3 ships can't stay in an endgame fight and lower the max such that dedicated tanks don't get blown out of the sky with a single hit while increasing the rate of fire to put pressure on the players.
My character Tsin'xing
Infected was A LOT harder back then than it is today.
In fact they dumbed down the ground portion a bit by removing the need to destroy the distribution nodes.
Back then, if you didn't the Borg you killed/disabled would just reactivate.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I can't remember being more proud and disgusted with a community as with the discussions that started with the LoR beta and then continued on through the open beta through release and after release.
Proud, because I'd never seen so many folks come forward to offer all sorts of suggestions on builds and playstyles to folks that were having difficulty with the Elachi missions. There was no cookie cutter you need to do this...there were all kinds of suggestions covering so many playstyles and potential builds. It was pretty damn epic, imho.
Disgusted, because of the sheer number of responses from folks that didn't even want to try.
They're the majority. So that's what Cryptic is going to do...
I get the feeling you haven't actually PvP'd, or simply stuck your big toe into the waters of PvP and got it bitten off.
Put "hardcore mode" difficult level. Just that.
If the players dies, he loses the ship, all consoles, half of the Boffs and the captain may be crippled.
Crippled captains will be disabled until restored with prostetics from the zen store, something like 500 Zens maybe? What is 500 Zen for a veteran player?
Is it challenging enought? Or maybe too much? :rolleyes:
that isn't challenge, thats EVE with the content replaced with STO...