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Suggestion: Raising the level cap and Moving beyond 2409

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  • ajm1067ajm1067 Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Why raise the level cap at all? If we want to add new abilities to the game, the rep system already does that. More skill points? The current number is pretty well balanced, and much more than that would probably result in everyone being excellent at everything New Mk13 gear and T6 ships? F*** no to that. New story missions that we'd finish in 3 hours for a new title? We already get that too.

    There have been so many threads on 'raise the level cap!' but I've never heard a GOOD reason for actually doing so.
    rathelm wrote: »
    Here's a good reason. Because its a subscription based MMO. If you don't keep adding new stuff then you start losing players. How can you convince people to play over and over the same stuff with the same abilities for years on end? The answer, you can't.

    You don't need to change the level cap to add new content. Indeed, as time progresses, the existing episodes that many new players solely follow to increase their level, before venturing beyond it (if at all) will have to change. They can't stand still. Those new episodes will also provide some fresh content for older players - even if it isn't that challenging.

    I would also remind experienced players that new players may regard so many levels as daunting. If you put them off at the start, then you are putting the whole game at risk, so there needs to be a balance.

    A new guy in my fleet is daunted by Traelus. He is daunted by the thought of somehow getting 8000 dilithium a day, because he has only managed to get about 900 so far - and if someone told him now that there are going to be more levels to get through to get to the top of the tree, he might just quit the game.

    He may or may not be representative of the playing population, but he certainly exists.

    I don't see any pressing need to increase the level cap beyond 50, although I agree that the ability to command multiple ships - especially ones you still have in your store - would be an excellent thing to bring into the game - somehow. That doesn't mean it has to become part of a 'level 51', although that could be an option, but again I would caution about increasing the number of levels and try and remember what some of you were like in this game at the start - even if it was long, long ago...
    NewMixedCrest.jpg?width=350&height=170
    McVittie's Marauders - The House of Arrgh
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    I absolutely, positively, will not create more characters in STO now that I have five six seven eight nine ten!
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  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    I would also remind experienced players that new players may regard so many levels as daunting. If you put them off at the start, then you are putting the whole game at risk, so there needs to be a balance.

    A new guy in my fleet is daunted by Traelus. He is daunted by the thought of somehow getting 8000 dilithium a day, because he has only managed to get about 900 so far - and if someone told him now that there are going to be more levels to get through to get to the top of the tree, he might just quit the game.
    New players are quite aware that there are MMOs out there which have 60, 70, 80+ levels. The MMO world doesn't stop at 50 just because that's a psychologically round number. :)

    As for the player who doesn't know how to earn Dilithium, I'd spend 5 minutes teaching him how to make 6-7k in 45 minutes and then move on to other issues. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • admrenlarreckadmrenlarreck Member Posts: 2,041 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    A lot of good points have been made here. Here is my 2 cents.

    To a lot of players having to gain an extra 10 or 20 levels in meaningless. Levels are tied in to skill points, so who here does not have millions of SP available to them. What it comes down to is how these new levels are implemented. C-store ships and MK XII gear going useless, is a bigger issue than having to go up a couple of more levels.

    If they do raise the cap they should NOT make MK XIII or XIV gear or t6 ships. A lot of us have spent too much time and money on what we have to have them toss it out with the garbage.
    fayhers_starfleet.jpg


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  • vamerrasvamerras Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    If they do raise the cap they should NOT make MK XIII or XIV gear or t6 ships. A lot of us have spent too much time and money on what we have to have them toss it out with the garbage.

    Or the devs could create new reputation factions: Starfleet and KDF as new factions.

    It could be available from the new lvl cap. Every new tier could unlock some new ship ability (extra console slot, extra weapon slot, turnrate boost, whatever) which could be bought from reputation store.

    So players could upgrade their ships to "Tier 6", without make the expensive C-Store / Fleet ships obsolete.
  • standupguy86standupguy86 Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    DStahl has made it clear in the Massively interview that the reason there wont be a increase in Level Cap for a while is because they need to create enough content to fill it. They dont want to make the mistake of increasing it only to have nothing for you to do.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    vamerras wrote: »
    Or the devs could create new reputation factions: Starfleet and KDF as new factions.

    It could be available from the new lvl cap. Every new tier could unlock some new ship ability (extra console slot, extra weapon slot, turnrate boost, whatever) which could be bought from reputation store.

    So players could upgrade their ships to "Tier 6", without make the expensive C-Store / Fleet ships obsolete.

    When and if they decide to ever release T6 ships, I would not be suprised if this what you're saying is implemented. The devs. have said on multiple ocassions, especially mr.Stahl, that if they ever go down the route of T6 ships, they would want to make the T5 ones upgradable, so the players can continue using their favourite end game ships they paid good money for. This, ofcoruse, would also help Cryptic as they wouldn't have to make a c***load of T6 ships for all the factions at the same time.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • ajm1067ajm1067 Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    New players are quite aware that there are MMOs out there which have 60, 70, 80+ levels. The MMO world doesn't stop at 50 just because that's a psychologically round number. :)

    Your response is all encompassing and assumes all new players play many MMOs. I can inform you with utter certainty that it ain't so, so kindly widen your horizons.
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    New As for the player who doesn't know how to earn Dilithium, I'd spend 5 minutes teaching him how to make 6-7k in 45 minutes and then move on to other issues. :)

    Yes you probably would, without caring that five minutes might be OK for some and might have been OK for you, but others need more 'hand-holding' and encouragement than you can give in five minutes, so again, you should consider the other person a little more than yourself - and try to remember you were new once to the game.
    NewMixedCrest.jpg?width=350&height=170
    McVittie's Marauders - The House of Arrgh
    Website
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    I absolutely, positively, will not create more characters in STO now that I have five six seven eight nine ten!
    McVittie/Saren/Arrgh Son of Jahn/Taev Dar/Professor Moriarty/Mia/Vittie/Vidtana'Clan/Suram/Sarela
  • o1derfull1o1derfull1 Member Posts: 294
    edited August 2013
    New Mk13 gear and T6 ships? F*** no to that....

    There have been so many threads on 'raise the level cap!' but I've never heard a GOOD reason for actually doing so.

    Better gear and ships is not a good reason? That's the Only reason to level at all in the first place.
    _________________________________________________

    ::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    shpoks wrote: »
    When and if they decide to ever release T6 ships, I would not be suprised if this what you're saying is implemented. The devs. have said on multiple ocassions, especially mr.Stahl, that if they ever go down the route of T6 ships, they would want to make the T5 ones upgradable, so the players can continue using their favourite end game ships they paid good money for. This, ofcoruse, would also help Cryptic as they wouldn't have to make a c***load of T6 ships for all the factions at the same time.

    Or they could go with my idea where Tier 6 ships are limited to players as being the Flagship of the Player's fleet and Tier 5.5 ships are the max tier that a npc fleet ship can be. Most likely, they will go with some combination of our ideas so Tier 5 and Tier 5.5 ships can be upgraded to Tier 6 and Tier 5.5 is the max for the npcs in our fleets. Upgraded Tier 5 and Tier 5.5 ships can't be used for npc fleet ships unless they are downgraded either by removing an upgrade console or consulting an npc contact.
  • anothervisitoranothervisitor Member Posts: 414 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    starkaos wrote: »
    The devs have mentioned they will raise the level cap and have mentioned that we will be able to control fleets with the new rank. I assume those Bridge Officers you no longer use can be promoted to Captain and pilot those ships that you no longer use. So the ship you spent $20 on or that lockbox ship that is gathering dust in the shipyard is usable again. Such content could involve sending ships to do missions similar to duty officer assignments and having allies with you when you do missions.
    Command a fleet of your ships? I just LOVE that idea. It would be great if you command them as pets, but even more so to change command to whatever ship of yours you want during combat at any time.

    For PVE this would be a great mechanic but not PVP as players who can afford the best ships would just do in players with standard T5 ships in their sleep.
    Tyr shall give me strength!
    For the glory of Tempus!
    I am the hands of Shar!
    Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
    Oghma, grant me knowledge!
    Lolth commands, and I obey!
  • johnny111971johnny111971 Member Posts: 1,300 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    starkaos wrote: »
    We are Vice Admirals so we should act like Admirals not Captains. Admirals control more than one ship at a time. IMO an Admiral system will be the best method to get use out of C-Store ships, Fleet ships, and lockbox ships that are no longer in use. IMO a Rear Admiral should be able to command a couple of ships and an Admiral would control a fleet of ships.

    I dont disagree with you, but I don't think this is going to happen (I could be wrong)... I've looked and looked and have yet to see anything confirming that even with a cap increase we'll be able to assign our boffs to our other ships, and have them escort us, or be able to send them on missions... other than a couple "it would be nice". Dan's comments in that interview are understandably vague.

    I think we are getting ahead of ourselves on what this is going to be... I do have to agree with his comments tho... if there is going to be a level cap, there needs to be something big to go along with it.

    Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
  • jsck82jsck82 Member Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    As a thought for the potential for moving the year to 2410...
    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Nexus

    Even in canon, the nexus is back in Feddy space in 2410. Lots of potential there.

    As for rank increase, that needs to be done, and they have talked about it. Hopefully it moves to something more than talk :D
  • foundrelicfoundrelic Member Posts: 1,380 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    HOnestly, yeah I really jsut want more end game story content. I mean hell at this point my crew alone has destroyed somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 Borg ships.


    In the same planetary systems.



    Over and over and over and over again.



    It's time to start progressing the story. Bring on the ****ing Iconians. You keep building them up and all they're going to do is fail as you'll have spent so damn long making them sound incredible that the reality will be terribly disappointing.


    I'm tired of handing the Borg their collective (Pun intended) butts.




    While we're at it. Make enemies SMARTER not just stronger. The biggest strongest beast in the universe is no threat if all it can do is swing its huge arms at you.



    Look to the past. It's not the strong enemies that you need to fear, it's the smart ones.
  • skanvakskanvak Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    As a matter of fact if we advance in time (which is good look at GW2 living story) we will have new technology that will make the present one outdated. This is as it should be and has nothing to do with the level cap. The main problem is that the new ship should be avialable as T5 are not as a T6 for higher up. Which basically mean that the T1 ship should become T0 and that new player should be offer directly actual T2 ship or choose between a T1 and a T2). Moving ahead we have such issue.

    I think the first think to do to that being more smoothly is to get rid off the level requirement for moft item (may be T4 to T6 should still be limit to at least captain). This way new technology could be introduce slowly and replace the old even for begining player. There weapon starting weapon would improve from MKI to MKIV (example) with time and the end player will use MK XVI. This will make the MKxx mean something. Because now it is something stupid that that say you can use a MKI one pistol but you don't know how to use a MKXII pistol because you are an ensign? This is purely bad game design.
  • vamerrasvamerras Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    skanvak wrote: »
    As a matter of fact if we advance in time (which is good look at GW2 living story) we will have new technology that will make the present one outdated. This is as it should be and has nothing to do with the level cap. The main problem is that the new ship should be avialable as T5 are not as a T6 for higher up. Which basically mean that the T1 ship should become T0 and that new player should be offer directly actual T2 ship or choose between a T1 and a T2). Moving ahead we have such issue.

    I think the first think to do to that being more smoothly is to get rid off the level requirement for moft item (may be T4 to T6 should still be limit to at least captain). This way new technology could be introduce slowly and replace the old even for begining player. There weapon starting weapon would improve from MKI to MKIV (example) with time and the end player will use MK XVI. This will make the MKxx mean something. Because now it is something stupid that that say you can use a MKI one pistol but you don't know how to use a MKXII pistol because you are an ensign? This is purely bad game design.

    No, a lvl cap raise shouldn't make the existing ships / equipment obsolete.

    Every MMO has two different equipment:
    - leveling stuff
    - endgame stuff

    There is no reason while should an ensign use MKVI weapons. The content meant to be ensign level is easily can be done with MKI-MKII white stuff. In STO (and in most of any other MMOs) spending resources to better _leveling_ equipment is useless. In STO to jump from ensign to captain or event to vice admiral is just a few days of playing. I never buy C-Store ships to my leveling characters because a few hundred Zen for a ship for a few hours / days is a huge waste of money. And I very rarely spend EC on equipment either on a leveling character: usually I just equip the loot I find. Why? Because for the leveling content is more than enough.

    So no need to change anything in this system. And no need to make Tier6 ships, MKXIII-XIV equipment either. As I wrote in a previous answer: lvl cap raising is good if it comes with the rumoured changes (your BOFF can be promoted to captains and you can be the commander of your own taskforce).
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    vamerras wrote: »
    No, a lvl cap raise shouldn't make the existing ships / equipment obsolete.

    But it will, because if you are currently end game with max level everything and then you get more powerful on top of that as a result of extra levels. Either all your gear becomes obsolete or they raise the quality of the gear so that you can't use it until you've finished levelling up.

    Let's say they make Maco XIIs lvl 60 stuff. Then I wouldn't be able to use the equipment I earned both in and out of the rep grind until I gain an extra ten levels.

    The same with all these ships I've just ground all the way up for in my fleet to get.

    Second point all these people that think this is a great idea should consider. If they don't add any additional content to the game and just raise the level cap, how do you think I will be able to gain the XP needed to level without having to repeat story missions for no real reason. Not only that, but we are already at the highest achievable Naval Rank not reserved for Royalty/Presidents so where do we go from there?

    There should be a significant amount of content added before they consider a level cap raise. I'm talking about 2 or three times the size of LoR before they even consider it.

    We don't need extra levels, extra powers perhaps but the main thing the game needs is content. The reason why the AI is so dumb and never uses it's powers properly is because the "casual" players can't handle getting beaten by a computer and want to be able to win without trying so things like Hive Onslaught were nerfed into oblivion.

    I will agree however that the game should move on past 2409 and into 2410 possibly ending this stupid charade of a war between the Fed and KDF.

    I'm sure however that next "season" we will get some crappy Featured Episode that will raise the level cap with next to no increase in end game content. Because this and easy "casual friendly" game play is what the masses want.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    From November 2012's Ask Cryptic

    "Q: (cbp4964) Will we ever be able to send out bridge officers off on separate missions, or have them accompany us to battle in ships we assign them from our own selection?

    Dstahl: We have some pretty awesome plans for when we increase ranks to Admiral level 60 which make good use of your bridge officers, ships, and crew. We ultimately want full Admirals to command their fleets. You?ll have to wait until at least Season 9 to get more details though."

    So it could be next season or next year for this. Also, things always change so this might not happen. Having the same system at level 60 that we have now is not good enough and the Admiral system would be a really good start.
  • anothervisitoranothervisitor Member Posts: 414 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    T6 ships: build your T5 to a T6 ship with tons of grinding, reputation and dilithium sinks. :D
    *runs*
    Tyr shall give me strength!
    For the glory of Tempus!
    I am the hands of Shar!
    Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
    Oghma, grant me knowledge!
    Lolth commands, and I obey!
  • skanvakskanvak Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Every MMO has two different equipment:
    - leveling stuff
    - endgame stuff

    This is exactly what I don't like, there should only be variable rarity level of stuff. This is bad game design to make levelling stuff and end game stuff.

    You play 3 years on a game in which you reach lvl max in 1 month. What is the point of creating stuff for less than 1% of the time? Second, there is no rational to prevent some one to use a MK XII sword/pistol if he can use a MK I sword/pistol. Look at the crafting system : it is useless once you have finished leveling because you don't need 880% of its content! The level requirement is a gameplay system invented for japanese RPG to tunnelled the player and be sure they don't short cut the game. This was a bad design at the time and it is a worse design for today MMORPG.


    If you disagree then let's agree on the point that we don't agree on this thing.
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    starkaos wrote: »
    You?ll have to wait until at least Season 9 to get more details though."

    At least S9 for more details. So this is still a very long way off. We're not even on S8 yet and he's only saying details in S9 so a the very earliest it'll be S10 which will probably be the later part of 2014 depending on what they "count" as season releases in the mean time.

    The phrase don't hold your breath comes to mind.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    skanvak wrote: »
    Look at the crafting system : it is useless once you have finished leveling because you don't need 880% of its content!

    This is why I and some players at least want Aegis Mk XII space set and an Aegis ground set. Doesn't even have to be an Aegis ground set. Just a crafted ground set of some kind. In Neverwinter, a lot of it is leveling up a specific profession to get the gear just like STO, but there are potions in the Alchemy profession that have absolutely no other way to get. Crafting should have consumables that are better than vendor consumables and there is no other way to get them except the Exchange. Sad that there has been absolutely no reason to touch Crafting for years. At least there was that Delta Flyer crafting mission that gave some use, but it was removed when F2P went live.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    tc10b wrote: »
    At least S9 for more details. So this is still a very long way off. We're not even on S8 yet and he's only saying details in S9 so a the very earliest it'll be S10 which will probably be the later part of 2014 depending on what they "count" as season releases in the mean time.

    The phrase don't hold your breath comes to mind.

    That was mentioned back in November so it might have even been before the whole "LoR is too big to be a Season". So Season 9 mentioned in that quote could be Season 8 due to LoR and Season 8 is later this year.
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    The point still stands that it's a long way off, for the information about the next big idea. The implementation is still set to be behind that.
  • foundrelicfoundrelic Member Posts: 1,380 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    T6 ships: build your T5 to a T6 ship with tons of grinding, reputation and dilithium sinks. :D
    *runs*

    I actually thought that's what the Fleet ships would be.

    You gather all of the materials and then submit them along with the ship you want to upgrade and then a day or four later you get a shiny Fleet enhanced ship.


    I was actually disappointed that this wasn't the case.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    tc10b wrote: »
    The point still stands that it's a long way off, for the information about the next big idea. The implementation is still set to be behind that.

    The point is that it is mere speculation on when the level cap increase will occur. Only the devs have an idea when it might occur. Considering that there will be at least 2 Seasons between now and August 2014, then it is entirely possible that we will be at level 60 this time next year. We might even be at level 60 by the end of this year. That information was released last November so lots of stuff can change in 9 months.
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Well it's not because in the interviews with Priority One, they have made it clear that they want to bring it in, but aren't in any hurry to do it. It's mere speculation that it will happen in any kind of recent timescale.
    This is a practiced answer meaning that he doesn't really want to discuss it at the moment and is akin to saying Soon (tm)

    At the end of this year is entirely unlikely as they don't have the content to support it, and it would be stupid for them to do it without a huge amount of content in order to both boost endgame content and provide new levelling material for people like myself who have already used all the sector patrols and Deep Space Encounters to level.
    That being said, while it would be unfeasible it's not outside the realm of possibility for Cryptic to release something unfinished and unchecked in order to appease the masses who are in such a hurry. Why the hurry?

    You do realise that this would be a massive undertaking and would probably involve looking at things like the Skill Tree and overhauling it again as well as equipment, ships and reputation to consider. It shouldn't happen in a hurry and will probably be part of a big release and is hopefully a long way off.

    Yeah the main thing that changed between that post and now was the poll on the forum that asked the player base what they wanted. They players chose this Romulan implementation and it was done, I imagine that had they not done this we might be closer to a level cap increase but even then they were more concerned with Rep systems and adventure zones which to be perfectly honest are far more appealing to me personally than another ten levels of grinding across multiple toons.

    The sheer fact of the matter is that the Rep system is probably going to be the alternate levelling system and you probably won't see a level cap raise and all these comments are being made to placate people into shutting up about it.
    The other consideration is that what is good for the goose isn't always good for the gander and while it may have been good for WoW to raise their cap, it might not be the best thing for STO because things are completely different games.

    If they turn around and offer me totally new end game content, an engaging storyline with lots of missions to level with, perhaps some kind of trade in for my current ships/equipment to prevent obsolescence, an engaging and skilled AI that actually can challenge me that doesn't just have tons of HP and OHKOs, then and only then, would I be pushing for a level and skill cap raise. Until then it just means grinding the same STFs at 60 instead of 50 and honestly what's the point in that?
    A title and some levels to compare with friends on WoW and other MMOs? No thanks.


    TLDR: It's not coming soon, it's not feasible. You might want it, but it probably won't. There's nothing in this game worth raising the cap for except to "compete" with WoW and others which probably isn't a good idea like comparing chalk and cheese.
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