Indeed, regarding the tricobalt mines. . .the developers didn't actually do something about it until PvEers started abusing the mechanic by one-shotting cubes and gates in STFs without killing the generators/transformers first.
Anyone who thinks developers 'waste time' by 'doing things for the PvP community' doesn't know what they're talking about. It's usually 'PvPers are astute enough to know when something is off, and bring it to the attention of the developers'. Whether it gets changed is up to the developers.
The tricobalt mines were BROKEN. Big time BROKEN. Sorry you folks couldn't keep your ridiculously broken I-Win button. Guess you have to settle for your other ridiculously powerful and unbalanced ship builds that shred NPCs in mere seconds, and are perfectly okay in the eyes of the devs.
PS: Another thing the PvP community does a lot is provide VIDEO EVIDENCE of problems, in both PvE and PvP settings. Some PvPers video record a lot, and use software to keep track of what stuff is doing how much damage, etc. This sort of thing really helps the developers resolve issues. Think of the 'elite' PvP community as an extension of Cryptic's QA team.
1) Take away a player's skills and their ship.
2) Replace with a generic ship that has only baseline capabilities. This way, it's only a person's skill that counts.
Apart from what Timezarg said (all true) another thing most of you lot crying and whining on here forget, is that some of the biggest spenders in the game are PVP'ers.
Most of the ships I have bought were for the consoles, to help my PVP builds - I'm not the only one who buys ships for just a console - most if not all of the real PVP crowd will spend more real life hard cash on the game, than a PvE'er would ever think about.
Want to know why Cryptic listen to the PVP crowd - they have the biggest wallets (metaphorically speaking) and spend more, and lets face it, you keep those happy that are spending the money.
So, if you PvE only "carebears" want it any other way... talk with your wallets, not your tears
I honestly and truly believe that this game (and any MMO for that matter) would have a LOT more content on a regular basis if PvP didn't exist. Developers spend so much time fixing PvP-related bugs, balance tweaks, etc. that they don't have nearly as much time for new content.
You don't honestly want them to get rid of PvP, though. Without having PvPers to blame for PvE bug fixes, who would you have to blame then? No, no - you definitely don't want to get rid of PvP. Obviously, you don't want Cryptic to do anything for PvP to improve it - no, obviously that is the case. However, you need PvP and the PvPers there to place the blame. It's much too harsh a reality to accept that you're not as good as you thought you were because you were unknowingly or knowingly exploiting some broken mechanic/system in PvE...
2. Seed players the way it's done in golf, tennis etc., based on past performance credits earned, so that bands of players of certain ranks compete against others of similar skill level (make this optional and allow entry into any pvp que at the players discretion. Often a person rises to the level of competiton).
PvP Rep would be difficult to manage - the combination of AFKers or just people gaming the system, well - it would be difficult to manage. Such a system could likely serve to do more damage and could play a role in killing off PvP.
Seeding would be near impossible to do because there simply aren't enough people. While it may appear to be a solution to increasing the number of participants if they do not have to face people that will pop them in 2-3 seconds, many folks are simply opposed to PvP in general. The likely small increase in participation would result in horrendous queues that would likely kill off PvP.
Want to know why Cryptic listen to the PVP crowd - they have the biggest wallets (metaphorically speaking) and spend more, and lets face it, you keep those happy that are spending the money.
If what we've seen so far is what it looks like Cryptic 'listens to the PvP crowd.' I think all the PvE players are content with it. You might want to address the PvP players who seem to think that PvP is completely ignored by the devs.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Once the insults come out, the discussion phase of the thread is over.
If what we've seen so far is what it looks like Cryptic 'listens to the PvP crowd.' I think all the PvE players are content with it. You might want to address the PvP players who seem to think that PvP is completely ignored by the devs.
The insults were already coming out, with people hating on PvP out of ignorance.
The insults were already coming out, with people hating on PvP out of ignorance.
And I'm sure the solution to that problem is more insults...
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
None of these systems will make me interested in STO PVP. PVP in MMOs is a BAD idea. It always has been, and it always will be. That's because the bedrock, foundational principle of PVP is that the players in any given match start on equal footing, which is a condition which is directly contradicted by the foundational principle of progression games: That as you play, your avatar gains in power so you can take on greater challenges.
The only game where I've seen progression elements integrate well with PVP has been games where those elements are largely token or cosmetic. Modern Warfare's progression involves unlocking weapons and perks which are not markedly better than the starting weapons and perks, or unlocking camouflage to make your gun a different colour.
Look, I understand why there's DEMAND for MMO PVP. PVE enemies are unchallenging and predictable, and putting a player behind your enemy is an easy way to fix that problem. But it's the wrong solution for the problem. The problem is that your content is unchallenging and predictable, not that the game needs PVP.
None of these systems will make me interested in STO PVP. PVP in MMOs is a BAD idea. It always has been, and it always will be. That's because the bedrock, foundational principle of PVP is that the players in any given match start on equal footing, which is a condition which is directly contradicted by the foundational principle of progression games: That as you play, your avatar gains in power so you can take on greater challenges.
The only game where I've seen progression elements integrate well with PVP has been games where those elements are largely token or cosmetic. Modern Warfare's progression involves unlocking weapons and perks which are not markedly better than the starting weapons and perks, or unlocking camouflage to make your gun a different colour.
Look, I understand why there's DEMAND for MMO PVP. PVE enemies are unchallenging and predictable, and putting a player behind your enemy is an easy way to fix that problem. But it's the wrong solution for the problem. The problem is that your content is unchallenging and predictable, not that the game needs PVP.
No AI can ever simulate the adaptability and unpredictability of a human. Better PvE AI is a good idea, but it's not a solution.
Again, there are many posts here by PvE'ers who don't want PvP to be improved or, in some cases, even to exist. Well, why are you on the PvP forum shooting down every constructive idea to help PvP? It affects you not at all. Your efforts seem to be aimed at making others conform to your idea of fun, and you don't seem to care that you are trying to take away the fun of other people.
STO PvP works as is. Sure, it's glitched and bugged, and there are broken things, but on the whole it works, it's fun, and, for all the bashing, it's the only end game STO has.
The issue of longer queue time is a serious one. Separating the level 50+ group into brackets first may well make queue times longer due to the scarcity of PvP'ers. This is why I suggested elsewhere that we make PvP accessible to level 10+ players. Brackets by level would have zero impact on the top tier queues; those players will still have the same competitors to deal with. However, as players level and learn PvP early, they will trickle into the higher tiers without meeting the wall of frustration that currently accompanies the first time PvP'er and, who knows, they may stick around for more than the three matches it takes to get the reward. This expands the playerbase over time, resulting in shorter queues, even of only 1% of PvE'ers stick around for the end game.
No AI can ever simulate the adaptability and unpredictability of a human. Better PvE AI is a good idea, but it's not a solution.
Again, there are many posts here by PvE'ers who don't want PvP to be improved or, in some cases, even to exist. Well, why are you on the PvP forum shooting down every constructive idea to help PvP? It affects you not at all. Your efforts seem to be aimed at making others conform to your idea of fun, and you don't seem to care that you are trying to take away the fun of other people.
STO PvP works as is. Sure, it's glitched and bugged, and there are broken things, but on the whole it works, it's fun, and, for all the bashing, it's the only end game STO has.
The issue of longer queue time is a serious one. Separating the level 50+ group into brackets first may well make queue times longer due to the scarcity of PvP'ers. This is why I suggested elsewhere that we make PvP accessible to level 10+ players. Brackets by level would have zero impact on the top tier queues; those players will still have the same competitors to deal with. However, as players level and learn PvP early, they will trickle into the higher tiers without meeting the wall of frustration that currently accompanies the first time PvP'er and, who knows, they may stick around for more than the three matches it takes to get the reward. This expands the playerbase over time, resulting in shorter queues, even of only 1% of PvE'ers stick around for the end game.
At the very least, what STO PvP really needs is more rewards (dilithium, reputation marks, EC, etc. . .not necessarily items or gear) and more maps/modes. Possibly a tier system to discriminate the new PvPers from the highly skilled/experienced ones. The basic PvP system is there and works, except for the 'premades stomping random people' issue.
If people actually look at STO PvP and call it a 'example of why PvP can't work', that's really foolish. STO PvP has been starved of development resources since the beginning of the game. The rewards are actually less than they used to be. No new maps, no decent reward system to encourage more people to spend time PvPing, nothing. Nada. Zip.
And I'm sure the solution to that problem is more insults...
Either way, my point still stands, those who spend the most will be listened to the most - business 101 my friend, keep the paying customers happy.
The only place I see lots of store bought items is the open PvPvE system, I spend most days doing STFs and there is less and less store ships / consoles in there. Only when something new comes out will you see it a few times in the PvE ques (Yes, I only PUG - so I get to see a wide cross section of the player base).
The PvP que or the PvPvE system - lots of C-Store items / ships going on there, and I do mean, A LOT.
And for those who did not like me using "Carebear", sorry to say, EVE stole it from someone else - so, yes, I will use it, as it does not belong to EVE players - and I have an opinion of them too, so that makes us even doesn't it (Carebear, gank, zerg, pirate, SOON, and so on.. were all used long BEFORE the cesspool of EVE was even a dream. Expressions are like fashion, they keep coming back, so get over yourselves)
Either way, my point still stands, those who spend the most will be listened to the most - business 101 my friend, keep the paying customers happy.
What you don't seem to realize is that the people who are paying the most are the PvE players. Not least because they outnumber the PvP players by such a huge margin...
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
The other day I finally tried one of the PvP missions and I can't begin to tell you how much fun I had with it and I can not for the life of me figure out why I did not try it sooner.
Having said that I do realize PvP in Cryptic games could be a lot better then it is. It seems like the devs at Cryptic never did play any games that had really good PvP because they never seem to get it right and probably never will.
If you think PvP is bad in STO go on over and give PvP a try in Neverwinter it is way worse in that game and it really is a game where they could have done a lot with PvP to make it really good. In Alpha testing I and lots of other testers made long and detailed posts on how to do this and they all either were not read or completely ignored...
What you don't seem to realize is that the people who are paying the most are the PvE players. Not least because they outnumber the PvP players by such a huge margin...
Once upon a time First Person Shooters or Real time Strategy Games were the only online games going. Role playing games were a niche market with little mass market interest.
But something changed; a new game was developed, and suddenly MMORPG's were all the rage. They made money in buckets. Should we stop producing MMORPG's because in 1990 nobody wanted to play them?
No historical evidence applies here because we are talking about the future, and while the games of the past can inform the games of the future, they cannot dictate the shape of things to come. If this were the case, all online games would be turn-based strategy games like chess or cards.
You cannot cite the absence of an audience for STO PvP as an excuse for two reasons:
1) If you create a broken mechanic that drives players away from an aspect of the game, it is likely not the lack of desire for the product, but a lack of desire for the broken mechanic that is driving players away. Many players do want PvP, but the barriers to entry into PvP are formidable and player frustration is the single largest barrier in attracting new players into STO PvP.
2) There are more PvE players, but per person PvE players do not spend the amount of money on this game that the average PvP'er does. Increasing the number of players interested in PvP cannot hurt PvE or PvE revenues, but can create a whole new interest in the game from PvE'ers who ran the content, got bored, and moved along to other games.
Want to retain those bored PvE'ers who elsewise would wander off and spend their money on other games? PvP is one way. It costs Cryptic almost nothing, and it offers so much potential.
To ignore a small but significant market which would require so little to grow is simply a very poor business decision. This is not a case of either/or; both player bases can be pleased with just a very marginal amount of effort on Cryptic's part.
You cannot cite the absence of an audience for STO PvP as an excuse for two reasons:
1) If you create a broken mechanic that drives players away from an aspect of the game, it is likely not the lack of desire for the product, but a lack of desire for the broken mechanic that is driving players away. Many players do want PvP, but the barriers to entry into PvP are formidable and player frustration is the single largest barrier in attracting new players into STO PvP.
Take a look at every MMO in existence. You'll find that players the world over think that PvP is broken in their game. At a certain point, you have to realize that the mythical mechanics that make PvP appealing to everyone don't exist. Positing that they do and that Cryptic can implement them easily is one step away from:
1. Take broken PvP
2. ????
3. Profit!
Player frustration is a direct outgrowth of the fundamental problem: RPG-style progression breaks PvP. Without a solution for that problem, PvP is always going to seem broken to the majority of players.
per person PvE players do not spend the amount of money on this game that the average PvP'er does.
That's complete conjecture, is it not? Or do you have data.
Increasing the number of players interested in PvP cannot hurt PvE or PvE revenues,
Clearly false where development resources are limited.
can create a whole new interest in the game from PvE'ers who ran the content, got bored, and moved along to other games.
Again, conjecture, and one which flies in the face of accepted MMO philosophy, which is that PvE players prefer PvE not because they don't like the PvP implementation, but rather because they don't like PvP.
Want to retain those bored PvE'ers who elsewise would wander off and spend their money on other games? PvP is one way.
Probably not.
It costs Cryptic almost nothing,
That's a pretty absurd assertion. If it would cost them almost nothing, why haven't they done it by now?
To ignore a small but significant market which would require so little to grow is simply a very poor business decision. This is not a case of either/or; both player bases can be pleased with just a very marginal amount of effort on Cryptic's part.
It's nowhere near as easy as you think it is. Even if you believe Cryptic is incompetent, you must also believe that pretty much every other MMO developer is incompetent as well, since they are not able to grow their player bases with minimal effort.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Take a look at every MMO in existence. You'll find that players the world over think that PvP is broken in their game.
Really?? You HAVE YOU played EVERY single MMO in the whole wide world ! - and yet you have time for this, you must work for Santa and use that magical stop watch of his to have the time !!
I have played games where the players enjoy PvP, I have played games that are based on PvP only - and I think 4070 people in EVE would not agree in your statement as they all enjoyed the big PvP battle they recently had.
PvP is always going to seem broken to the majority of players.
So you speak for the majority now?? I don't recall a vote being cast - kinda makes the forums pointless when you speak for everyone.
And, in my personal experience, the only people who keep screaming "broken" are those who are not very good at it or lack a creative streak to come up with interesting ways of having fun in PvP - the only exception of course, is a lot of people do say STO PvP is broken. (I die a lot in it, but I do have some cracking fun and some great configs thanks to PvP in it's current state)
Again, conjecture, and one which flies in the face of accepted MMO philosophy, which is that PvE players prefer PvE not because they don't like the PvP implementation, but rather because they don't like PvP.
Work in the business?? I'd like the source information for that
That's a pretty absurd assertion. If it would cost them almost nothing, why haven't they done it by now?
Under staffed, under paid, over worked - I believe that is on the main entrance to the Cryptic office... I'm sure I will be corrected if I am wrong (In plain English, they don't have a lot of time - and players keep asking for things like new factions, new ship and so on - hence PvP gets pushed back all the time)
So far, this is about the only thing I've seen you post that makes sense - Cryptic are in a catch 22 spot, if they focus on PvP, they lose some of the PvE crowd, if they don't give PvP some focus soon, they will lose that crowd.
Either way, they lose.
Glad I'm not in charge, just a run of the mill forum warrior for equal rights in cyber space
PvP is why I play. I spent 650$ on STO this month. Top that.
You are not the only one, I went lifer in Beta for the PvP side - I figured that once I'd done all the PvE, the only thing left that would be interesting will be the PvP - as no A.I. can match the sheer will of a human player.
You are not the only one, I went lifer in Beta for the PvP side - I figured that once I'd done all the PvE, the only thing left that would be interesting will be the PvP - as no A.I. can match the sheer will of a human player.
I have played games where the players enjoy PvP, I have played games that are based on PvP only - and I think 4070 people in EVE would not agree in your statement as they all enjoyed the big PvP battle they recently had.
4070 people enjoyed waiting 10 seconds for one action to be registered?
Speaks volumes about the validity of your assertions.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
4070 people enjoyed waiting 10 seconds for one action to be registered?
Speaks volumes about the validity of your assertions.
Shot your "assertion" down though - they all knew long before that time was going to be slowed down - yet they all wanted to be a part of that big PvP event - and no one is screaming it's broken - so, the example served it's purpose, it made you look stupid for trying to speak for everyone when you only speak for yourself.
Tribes: Ascend is another PvP focused game, I never have to wait to get into a good fight there - a busy little game, full of nice people (in my experience). But as you seem to despise anything PvP - I would not expect you to understand.
Comments
Anyone who thinks developers 'waste time' by 'doing things for the PvP community' doesn't know what they're talking about. It's usually 'PvPers are astute enough to know when something is off, and bring it to the attention of the developers'. Whether it gets changed is up to the developers.
The tricobalt mines were BROKEN. Big time BROKEN. Sorry you folks couldn't keep your ridiculously broken I-Win button. Guess you have to settle for your other ridiculously powerful and unbalanced ship builds that shred NPCs in mere seconds, and are perfectly okay in the eyes of the devs.
PS: Another thing the PvP community does a lot is provide VIDEO EVIDENCE of problems, in both PvE and PvP settings. Some PvPers video record a lot, and use software to keep track of what stuff is doing how much damage, etc. This sort of thing really helps the developers resolve issues. Think of the 'elite' PvP community as an extension of Cryptic's QA team.
2) Replace with a generic ship that has only baseline capabilities. This way, it's only a person's skill that counts.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Most of the ships I have bought were for the consoles, to help my PVP builds - I'm not the only one who buys ships for just a console - most if not all of the real PVP crowd will spend more real life hard cash on the game, than a PvE'er would ever think about.
Want to know why Cryptic listen to the PVP crowd - they have the biggest wallets (metaphorically speaking) and spend more, and lets face it, you keep those happy that are spending the money.
So, if you PvE only "carebears" want it any other way... talk with your wallets, not your tears
4,000 players PvP (yes, four thousands shooting each other in space combat!).
http://evenews24.com/2013/07/29/6vdt-h-the-biggest-battle-in-eve-history-ends-the-war-in-fountain/
All ships the size of star cruisers, each of them is a player, no NPC, and in death they lose the ship and all the modules too (consoles).
At least 1,500 ships lost just in one battle.
You don't honestly want them to get rid of PvP, though. Without having PvPers to blame for PvE bug fixes, who would you have to blame then? No, no - you definitely don't want to get rid of PvP. Obviously, you don't want Cryptic to do anything for PvP to improve it - no, obviously that is the case. However, you need PvP and the PvPers there to place the blame. It's much too harsh a reality to accept that you're not as good as you thought you were because you were unknowingly or knowingly exploiting some broken mechanic/system in PvE...
Nope, you don't want Cryptic to get rid of PvP.
You need that scapegoat.
Oh...the irony.
PvP Rep would be difficult to manage - the combination of AFKers or just people gaming the system, well - it would be difficult to manage. Such a system could likely serve to do more damage and could play a role in killing off PvP.
Seeding would be near impossible to do because there simply aren't enough people. While it may appear to be a solution to increasing the number of participants if they do not have to face people that will pop them in 2-3 seconds, many folks are simply opposed to PvP in general. The likely small increase in participation would result in horrendous queues that would likely kill off PvP.
Or maybe 50 straight kills and you get to retire to Risa (no more missions no more pvp )
Stop calling others "carebears", do you know what Eve players think of STO players, including the PvP players?
Yes, "carebears".
"So, they never lose ships in STO? They just respawn? Lol, our mission runners and miners are less carebears then their PvP pilots."
Once the insults come out, the discussion phase of the thread is over.
If what we've seen so far is what it looks like Cryptic 'listens to the PvP crowd.' I think all the PvE players are content with it. You might want to address the PvP players who seem to think that PvP is completely ignored by the devs.
The insults were already coming out, with people hating on PvP out of ignorance.
And I'm sure the solution to that problem is more insults...
I had to chuckle, here...
PvE: Players throw insults at NPCs and do not expect insults in return.
PvP: Players may receive insults as well as offer them.
The only game where I've seen progression elements integrate well with PVP has been games where those elements are largely token or cosmetic. Modern Warfare's progression involves unlocking weapons and perks which are not markedly better than the starting weapons and perks, or unlocking camouflage to make your gun a different colour.
Look, I understand why there's DEMAND for MMO PVP. PVE enemies are unchallenging and predictable, and putting a player behind your enemy is an easy way to fix that problem. But it's the wrong solution for the problem. The problem is that your content is unchallenging and predictable, not that the game needs PVP.
No AI can ever simulate the adaptability and unpredictability of a human. Better PvE AI is a good idea, but it's not a solution.
Again, there are many posts here by PvE'ers who don't want PvP to be improved or, in some cases, even to exist. Well, why are you on the PvP forum shooting down every constructive idea to help PvP? It affects you not at all. Your efforts seem to be aimed at making others conform to your idea of fun, and you don't seem to care that you are trying to take away the fun of other people.
STO PvP works as is. Sure, it's glitched and bugged, and there are broken things, but on the whole it works, it's fun, and, for all the bashing, it's the only end game STO has.
The issue of longer queue time is a serious one. Separating the level 50+ group into brackets first may well make queue times longer due to the scarcity of PvP'ers. This is why I suggested elsewhere that we make PvP accessible to level 10+ players. Brackets by level would have zero impact on the top tier queues; those players will still have the same competitors to deal with. However, as players level and learn PvP early, they will trickle into the higher tiers without meeting the wall of frustration that currently accompanies the first time PvP'er and, who knows, they may stick around for more than the three matches it takes to get the reward. This expands the playerbase over time, resulting in shorter queues, even of only 1% of PvE'ers stick around for the end game.
At the very least, what STO PvP really needs is more rewards (dilithium, reputation marks, EC, etc. . .not necessarily items or gear) and more maps/modes. Possibly a tier system to discriminate the new PvPers from the highly skilled/experienced ones. The basic PvP system is there and works, except for the 'premades stomping random people' issue.
If people actually look at STO PvP and call it a 'example of why PvP can't work', that's really foolish. STO PvP has been starved of development resources since the beginning of the game. The rewards are actually less than they used to be. No new maps, no decent reward system to encourage more people to spend time PvPing, nothing. Nada. Zip.
Either way, my point still stands, those who spend the most will be listened to the most - business 101 my friend, keep the paying customers happy.
The only place I see lots of store bought items is the open PvPvE system, I spend most days doing STFs and there is less and less store ships / consoles in there. Only when something new comes out will you see it a few times in the PvE ques (Yes, I only PUG - so I get to see a wide cross section of the player base).
The PvP que or the PvPvE system - lots of C-Store items / ships going on there, and I do mean, A LOT.
And for those who did not like me using "Carebear", sorry to say, EVE stole it from someone else - so, yes, I will use it, as it does not belong to EVE players - and I have an opinion of them too, so that makes us even doesn't it
What you don't seem to realize is that the people who are paying the most are the PvE players. Not least because they outnumber the PvP players by such a huge margin...
LOL... nice. If they killed PVP I'd send them a couple cases of their favorite beverage and buy every c-store ship in the game!
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
Having said that I do realize PvP in Cryptic games could be a lot better then it is. It seems like the devs at Cryptic never did play any games that had really good PvP because they never seem to get it right and probably never will.
If you think PvP is bad in STO go on over and give PvP a try in Neverwinter it is way worse in that game and it really is a game where they could have done a lot with PvP to make it really good. In Alpha testing I and lots of other testers made long and detailed posts on how to do this and they all either were not read or completely ignored...
Once upon a time First Person Shooters or Real time Strategy Games were the only online games going. Role playing games were a niche market with little mass market interest.
But something changed; a new game was developed, and suddenly MMORPG's were all the rage. They made money in buckets. Should we stop producing MMORPG's because in 1990 nobody wanted to play them?
No historical evidence applies here because we are talking about the future, and while the games of the past can inform the games of the future, they cannot dictate the shape of things to come. If this were the case, all online games would be turn-based strategy games like chess or cards.
You cannot cite the absence of an audience for STO PvP as an excuse for two reasons:
1) If you create a broken mechanic that drives players away from an aspect of the game, it is likely not the lack of desire for the product, but a lack of desire for the broken mechanic that is driving players away. Many players do want PvP, but the barriers to entry into PvP are formidable and player frustration is the single largest barrier in attracting new players into STO PvP.
2) There are more PvE players, but per person PvE players do not spend the amount of money on this game that the average PvP'er does. Increasing the number of players interested in PvP cannot hurt PvE or PvE revenues, but can create a whole new interest in the game from PvE'ers who ran the content, got bored, and moved along to other games.
Want to retain those bored PvE'ers who elsewise would wander off and spend their money on other games? PvP is one way. It costs Cryptic almost nothing, and it offers so much potential.
To ignore a small but significant market which would require so little to grow is simply a very poor business decision. This is not a case of either/or; both player bases can be pleased with just a very marginal amount of effort on Cryptic's part.
Take a look at every MMO in existence. You'll find that players the world over think that PvP is broken in their game. At a certain point, you have to realize that the mythical mechanics that make PvP appealing to everyone don't exist. Positing that they do and that Cryptic can implement them easily is one step away from:
1. Take broken PvP
2. ????
3. Profit!
Player frustration is a direct outgrowth of the fundamental problem: RPG-style progression breaks PvP. Without a solution for that problem, PvP is always going to seem broken to the majority of players.
That's complete conjecture, is it not? Or do you have data.
Clearly false where development resources are limited.
Again, conjecture, and one which flies in the face of accepted MMO philosophy, which is that PvE players prefer PvE not because they don't like the PvP implementation, but rather because they don't like PvP.
Probably not.
That's a pretty absurd assertion. If it would cost them almost nothing, why haven't they done it by now?
It's nowhere near as easy as you think it is. Even if you believe Cryptic is incompetent, you must also believe that pretty much every other MMO developer is incompetent as well, since they are not able to grow their player bases with minimal effort.
Really?? You HAVE YOU played EVERY single MMO in the whole wide world ! - and yet you have time for this, you must work for Santa and use that magical stop watch of his to have the time !!
I have played games where the players enjoy PvP, I have played games that are based on PvP only - and I think 4070 people in EVE would not agree in your statement as they all enjoyed the big PvP battle they recently had.
So you speak for the majority now?? I don't recall a vote being cast - kinda makes the forums pointless when you speak for everyone.
And, in my personal experience, the only people who keep screaming "broken" are those who are not very good at it or lack a creative streak to come up with interesting ways of having fun in PvP - the only exception of course, is a lot of people do say STO PvP is broken. (I die a lot in it, but I do have some cracking fun and some great configs thanks to PvP in it's current state)
Pot = Kettle anyone. Where is YOUR data for YOUR sweeping statements then?
Work in the business?? I'd like the source information for that
Under staffed, under paid, over worked - I believe that is on the main entrance to the Cryptic office... I'm sure I will be corrected if I am wrong
So far, this is about the only thing I've seen you post that makes sense - Cryptic are in a catch 22 spot, if they focus on PvP, they lose some of the PvE crowd, if they don't give PvP some focus soon, they will lose that crowd.
Either way, they lose.
Glad I'm not in charge, just a run of the mill forum warrior for equal rights in cyber space
You are not the only one, I went lifer in Beta for the PvP side - I figured that once I'd done all the PvE, the only thing left that would be interesting will be the PvP - as no A.I. can match the sheer will of a human player.
Oh well:(
Pfft
I'll be your Huckle Bearer.
4070 people enjoyed waiting 10 seconds for one action to be registered?
Speaks volumes about the validity of your assertions.
pvp = meh
it's all about the pvp player mentalities/interactions IMO
same in every game with pvp.
the community just isnt appealing beyond the feather ruffling and virtual bully'ing attempts.
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Shot your "assertion" down though - they all knew long before that time was going to be slowed down - yet they all wanted to be a part of that big PvP event - and no one is screaming it's broken - so, the example served it's purpose, it made you look stupid for trying to speak for everyone when you only speak for yourself.
Tribes: Ascend is another PvP focused game, I never have to wait to get into a good fight there - a busy little game, full of nice people (in my experience). But as you seem to despise anything PvP - I would not expect you to understand.
+1
That plays a heavy part in why I prefer to PvP and keep as far away from the PvE community as well.
See, this is what is wrong. No player should ever feel like they have to keep away from other players.
It is why I came to STO to start with, I figured the PvE crowds would have some of the Star Trek mentality - guess who was wrong
drrr...nice try...lol.
in PVE you are free to avoid the idiots altogether and enjoy the star trek experience as a captain of your own ship.
in PvP there is no option but to 'have' to put up with the kiddies with virtual epeens.
again...nice try.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----