Hrm, as far as the OP is concerned, I am pretty sure the Structural Integrity Field was designed with such scenarios in mind, in addition to its regular function.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I find it kinda sad that the OP limits his/her own imagination based on FICTIONAL hard-data...
One thing I've always liked about Star Trek is that the sky is the limit...
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Going into an atmosphere is fine, it's landing on a planet that is out of the question. JJTrek depicted the Enterprise being build in Iowa, which is completely stupid, no matter how you look at it.
Anything with JJ Abrams is completely stupid, no matter how you look at it.
uh no, that concept art doesn't work. a ship the size of the enterprise D could never stay in the air on a world the size of earth, no way it could enter the atmosphere of a world that must be large enough to have such a structure. before people say JJ, realize it's JJ and it's TRIBBLE and he makes up completely TRIBBLE concepts a child could understand wouldn't work. ships like voyager and BoPs even the Defiant and some smaller raptors could enter the atmosphere but nothing constitution size (enterprise A) or larger would have a chance, it's thruster capability just wouldn't be great enough to offset the ship mass. That structure could stick out of a small moon, say 2/3 the size of our moon at most and be plausible but that also means no atmosphere. a large asteroid would make sense. Now if that ship flying through the structure was a shuttle, much different story, that would work and make sense, but if your talking about a pace adventureland (a concept i like a lot because I really hate any kind of ground mission) I doubt thats a shuttle, from it's appearance it's a galaxy class.
Some people have too much time on their hands. lmao :rolleyes:
One of the 0.7%ers Markus Urelious 16000+ Accolades [Fed Tac FA] + Several More
no they can't. a warp field inside of an atmosphere would be a very very very bad thing for everyone.
Where did I say anything about a Warp Field inside an atmosphere? I said a bubble using forcefields inside an atmosphere. As far as I know, Warp Fields and Forcefields have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
Where did I say anything about a Warp Field inside an atmosphere? I said a bubble using forcefields inside an atmosphere. As far as I know, Warp Fields and Forcefields have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
Well... force fields are any fields that exert a force... so yes, a warp field is technically a force field.
Also, shields use gravitons, as does the warp drive, and I assume the force fields that section off the ship. So they are all related techs.
_____________________________________________
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
It might be using a lawyer friendly version of scrith as hull material... Scrith is a material from the Known Space universe (which has had occasional licensed crossovers with Star Trek via the Kzinti race (which were going to be added in to STO but they couldn't get the license for it, so they made them blue, gave them sentient females, and relased them as a KDF feline race), and the slaver boxes and slaver weapons in the Star Trek: The Animated Series)
If it's say, the lawyer-friendly scrith material were a few atoms thick, it could definitely withstand it and be light weight enough for thrusters to work. Scrith has the tensile strength of atomic strong force. Basically it takes a LOT of energy just to break it. It took a small planetoid hurdling at like half the speed of light to merely dent the Ring World, which is basically solid scrith. To put this into perspective... it's next to impossible to take quarks and split them up. Take say a hadron, which is a particle with a pair of quarks composing it. In order to rip the two quarks apart, you have to expend more energy than the two quarks compose. When you finally do so, all that extra energy spawns a pair of new quarks so you end up with a pair of hadrons just one hadron.
That's how strong scrith is. In order to affect it's shape, you have to spend more energy the amount of energy required to compose the stuff as solid matter.
I see no reason the race in question couldn't be using some lawyer friendly version of it.
Well... force fields are any fields that exert a force... so yes, a warp field is technically a force field.
Also, shields use gravitons, as does the warp drive, and I assume the force fields that section off the ship. So they are all related techs.
That might be true, but forcefields are strictly defined in Star Trek as an energy field that prevents movement through the forcefield. They are used to stop air from escaping during a hull breach, prisons, holograms, and other stuff. There should be no reason why a person would confuse a Warp field with a forcefield or a shield.
1. The Next Generation technical manual makes brief reference to the fact that a Galaxy Class starship cannot maintain flight within an atmosphere (and to whoever mentioned the fact the the Enterprise D did enter a planets atmosphere in an episode: you are correct, but failed to mention it was a point of peril because if they couldn't get back into orbit, the ship was going to crash).
2. The ship in that picture is not a Galaxy class as the nacelle pylons are wrong and the deflector dish is red (assuming the ship is flying towards camera); from what detail can be seen by zooming really close, it looks far more like the original Constitution class. This means that either the connie fanboys are in for a treat, or far more likely the concept artist has little care for continuity.
People have to learn that in Science Fiction the only barrier is the imagination of the writer
Nothing to do with imagination or Science Fiction.
A stable warp field means that the object inside is moving at speeds many, many times the speed of light.
Compare a fighter- and commercial-sized aircraft in an atmosphere moving faster than the speed of sound. This generates a shockwave known as a "sonic boom".
Now scale up the size of the craft, then scale up the speed of the craft. Put that in an atmosphere. Keep in mind that traveling at that speed for less than one-millionth of a second will cause it to fly out of the atmosphere by several thousand miles. Try to imagine what will happen to the newly-vacated void in the atmosphere.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Nothing to do with imagination or Science Fiction.
A stable warp field means that the object inside is moving at speeds many, many times the speed of light.
Compare a fighter- and commercial-sized aircraft in an atmosphere moving faster than the speed of sound. This generates a shockwave known as a "sonic boom".
Now scale up the size of the craft, then scale up the speed of the craft. Put that in an atmosphere. Keep in mind that traveling at that speed for less than one-millionth of a second will cause it to fly out of the atmosphere by several thousand miles. Try to imagine what will happen to the newly-vacated void in the atmosphere.
A static warp field can exist where it is not moving in space. It was in the TNG episode Remember Me where Dr. Crusher was trapped in a universe that was collapsing on itself.
As far as a regular warp field go, there is nothing saying you can't use a warp field in an atmosphere. Just that you shouldn't.
Folks there is a HUGE, difference between gliding through the UPPER atmosphere like in that episode and actually landing, and taking off in FULL atmo
heck if anything Arsenal is proof why the Enterprise D and ships of that size CAN'T fly into atmospheres for very long.
if the D was suffering that much atmospheric drag and vibration from being in the UPPER atmosphere, you can only wonder what it takes to land the thing.
And yes, there is the TNG Tech manual created BY THE OKUDAS, so pretty much the keepers of the canon, for the D to be able to make planet fall, 1) the stardrive must be removed, 2) the saucer's IDF and SDF must be set to HIGH, and the saucer make the belly landing, just like in Generations.
and in MR Scott's guide to the Enterprise, the Refitted TOS Enterprise could blow explosive bolts on the neck, separate it's saucer and land in the same fashion.
but in EITHER case these are Emergency procedures, and they certainly can't take off again, at least under their own power.
And there is a REALITY based limit in real life how big a Rocket can be in terms of mass before it can't take off.
It's called TWR or Thrust to Weight Ratio, and if it's less then 1.0, your not going anywhere.
essentially there is a size limit to how big a star ship can be before it can't do atmospheric entry and exit in terms of taking off and landing.
The Voyager was able to do it because it was designed to and mainly because it was small enough in terms of overall mass.
looking at the concept art, this SHIP if it even IS a ship is way to huge, by virtue of the fact that the thing is taller then the skyscrapers it's dwarfing. Voyager isn't as long as a building is tall, it's very small actually in starship terms.
There is one and only one way this ship COULD get off the ground, and that is the use of a non-propulsive warp field designed SOLELY for lowering the mass presence of the ship. However though you would have to discuss the effects of having a warp field being generated both with in a planetary atmosphere AND so far in a planet's gravity field and within such close proximity to a population center, I'm not sure what catastrophic effects that would cause.
Keep in mind we are dealing with tech thirty plus years more advanced then The Next Generation. For all we know anti-grav and structural integrity fields/materials are more then capable of keeping ships intact during atmospheric flight and/or combat. Heck, the way Neutronium is thrown around this game, we can pretend that every ship's basic frame is Neutronium or Monotanium - the hardest metals known so far in the series.
Regardless of overall warp speed engaged here, warp is warp. Notice the distinct lack of... any disturbance, even though birds of prey TEND to be small, this same bird of prey reached well over warp 9. No fancy efficient warp design either.
Judging by the clouds, this ship is at most 12km up, likely less.
Oh, right... plot logic. When it suits the story, it matters, when it doesn't suit the story -- *gasp* -- it doesn't matter.
Folks there is a HUGE, difference between gliding through the UPPER atmosphere like in that episode and actually landing, and taking off in FULL atmo
heck if anything Arsenal is proof why the Enterprise D and ships of that size CAN'T fly into atmospheres for very long.
if the D was suffering that much atmospheric drag and vibration from being in the UPPER atmosphere, you can only wonder what it takes to land the thing.
The Enterprise was entering the atmosphere at too high a speed, to lure the enemy after them. After the battle was over they just stopped to beam up the away team and then slowly returned back to standard orbit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZotMRpnk0VY No sign of the ship breaking apart after they were done.
And yes, there is the TNG Tech manual created BY THE OKUDAS, so pretty much the keepers of the canon, for the D to be able to make planet fall, 1) the stardrive must be removed, 2) the saucer's IDF and SDF must be set to HIGH, and the saucer make the belly landing, just like in Generations.
Okuda was a designer, who, by the way, put a bunch of silly stuff on the sets. He's not a "keeper of canon". Nothing what he writes and publishes beats on-screen canon.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Comments
Bird of Prey
/thread
and if something like the Galileo TOS shuttle can fly... which has the aerodynamics of a BRICK... then anything can fly.
Like to add TOS Enterprise to that list, and it did it with main power offline, and flying blind.
and the NX 01 that was Swiss cheese at the time.
That is the most awesome thing ever, that person deserves a cookie.
If the Connie can fly in an atmosphere and the galaxy is more advanced, albeit bigger, then it should be able to fly just as well.
Glaxay class under construction on the ground.
OK it's Mars, but still
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
to the OP.. this is science "FICTION". If you want to know how the Star Trek universe works, click here.
In fact, that is how all fiction works, that is what makes fiction so much fun.
[EDIT] Link is to a YOUTUBE music video - USS Make it up, by Voltaire.
People have to learn that in Science Fiction the only barrier is the imagination of the writer
One thing I've always liked about Star Trek is that the sky is the limit...
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100314185043/startrek/images/1/1d/Enterprise_landed.jpg
Seems like a really lame trolling attempt.
http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=941961
Some people have too much time on their hands. lmao :rolleyes:
Tyvm kind sir.
Where did I say anything about a Warp Field inside an atmosphere? I said a bubble using forcefields inside an atmosphere. As far as I know, Warp Fields and Forcefields have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
Well... force fields are any fields that exert a force... so yes, a warp field is technically a force field.
Also, shields use gravitons, as does the warp drive, and I assume the force fields that section off the ship. So they are all related techs.
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
Oh. Atmospheric flight. That's right.
If it's say, the lawyer-friendly scrith material were a few atoms thick, it could definitely withstand it and be light weight enough for thrusters to work. Scrith has the tensile strength of atomic strong force. Basically it takes a LOT of energy just to break it. It took a small planetoid hurdling at like half the speed of light to merely dent the Ring World, which is basically solid scrith. To put this into perspective... it's next to impossible to take quarks and split them up. Take say a hadron, which is a particle with a pair of quarks composing it. In order to rip the two quarks apart, you have to expend more energy than the two quarks compose. When you finally do so, all that extra energy spawns a pair of new quarks so you end up with a pair of hadrons just one hadron.
That's how strong scrith is. In order to affect it's shape, you have to spend more energy the amount of energy required to compose the stuff as solid matter.
I see no reason the race in question couldn't be using some lawyer friendly version of it.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → Ⓑ Ⓐ
That might be true, but forcefields are strictly defined in Star Trek as an energy field that prevents movement through the forcefield. They are used to stop air from escaping during a hull breach, prisons, holograms, and other stuff. There should be no reason why a person would confuse a Warp field with a forcefield or a shield.
1. The Next Generation technical manual makes brief reference to the fact that a Galaxy Class starship cannot maintain flight within an atmosphere (and to whoever mentioned the fact the the Enterprise D did enter a planets atmosphere in an episode: you are correct, but failed to mention it was a point of peril because if they couldn't get back into orbit, the ship was going to crash).
2. The ship in that picture is not a Galaxy class as the nacelle pylons are wrong and the deflector dish is red (assuming the ship is flying towards camera); from what detail can be seen by zooming really close, it looks far more like the original Constitution class. This means that either the connie fanboys are in for a treat, or far more likely the concept artist has little care for continuity.
I don't care what technical manual was written or even that episode for that matter. The Galaxy CAN fly, it only needs a rudder.
cause sometimes its party time!
A stable warp field means that the object inside is moving at speeds many, many times the speed of light.
Compare a fighter- and commercial-sized aircraft in an atmosphere moving faster than the speed of sound. This generates a shockwave known as a "sonic boom".
Now scale up the size of the craft, then scale up the speed of the craft. Put that in an atmosphere. Keep in mind that traveling at that speed for less than one-millionth of a second will cause it to fly out of the atmosphere by several thousand miles. Try to imagine what will happen to the newly-vacated void in the atmosphere.
Hint: It won't be raining Reese's Pieces.
So basically it can fly in an atmosphere because you say it can, and those silly people who created it who say it can't are wrong?
It can fly in an atmosphere because that's what it did in onscreen canon.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
A static warp field can exist where it is not moving in space. It was in the TNG episode Remember Me where Dr. Crusher was trapped in a universe that was collapsing on itself.
As far as a regular warp field go, there is nothing saying you can't use a warp field in an atmosphere. Just that you shouldn't.
Folks there is a HUGE, difference between gliding through the UPPER atmosphere like in that episode and actually landing, and taking off in FULL atmo
heck if anything Arsenal is proof why the Enterprise D and ships of that size CAN'T fly into atmospheres for very long.
if the D was suffering that much atmospheric drag and vibration from being in the UPPER atmosphere, you can only wonder what it takes to land the thing.
And yes, there is the TNG Tech manual created BY THE OKUDAS, so pretty much the keepers of the canon, for the D to be able to make planet fall, 1) the stardrive must be removed, 2) the saucer's IDF and SDF must be set to HIGH, and the saucer make the belly landing, just like in Generations.
and in MR Scott's guide to the Enterprise, the Refitted TOS Enterprise could blow explosive bolts on the neck, separate it's saucer and land in the same fashion.
but in EITHER case these are Emergency procedures, and they certainly can't take off again, at least under their own power.
And there is a REALITY based limit in real life how big a Rocket can be in terms of mass before it can't take off.
It's called TWR or Thrust to Weight Ratio, and if it's less then 1.0, your not going anywhere.
essentially there is a size limit to how big a star ship can be before it can't do atmospheric entry and exit in terms of taking off and landing.
The Voyager was able to do it because it was designed to and mainly because it was small enough in terms of overall mass.
looking at the concept art, this SHIP if it even IS a ship is way to huge, by virtue of the fact that the thing is taller then the skyscrapers it's dwarfing. Voyager isn't as long as a building is tall, it's very small actually in starship terms.
There is one and only one way this ship COULD get off the ground, and that is the use of a non-propulsive warp field designed SOLELY for lowering the mass presence of the ship. However though you would have to discuss the effects of having a warp field being generated both with in a planetary atmosphere AND so far in a planet's gravity field and within such close proximity to a population center, I'm not sure what catastrophic effects that would cause.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zP9PLYJxjaM&t=410
Regardless of overall warp speed engaged here, warp is warp. Notice the distinct lack of... any disturbance, even though birds of prey TEND to be small, this same bird of prey reached well over warp 9. No fancy efficient warp design either.
Judging by the clouds, this ship is at most 12km up, likely less.
Oh, right... plot logic. When it suits the story, it matters, when it doesn't suit the story -- *gasp* -- it doesn't matter.
The Enterprise was entering the atmosphere at too high a speed, to lure the enemy after them. After the battle was over they just stopped to beam up the away team and then slowly returned back to standard orbit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZotMRpnk0VY No sign of the ship breaking apart after they were done.
Okuda was a designer, who, by the way, put a bunch of silly stuff on the sets. He's not a "keeper of canon". Nothing what he writes and publishes beats on-screen canon.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Anti-grav
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.