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Maquis raider
zakharaov
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Anyone else think it would be nice to have the Maquis raider available as a fed ship?
They seem to have originally been federation/starfleet ships appropriated by the Maquis and modified. On top of that Starfleet no doubt has hundreds of them impounded somewhere in a junkyard with the war providing a good excuse to put them into service.
Plus it provides a ship for those of us who don't really like the federation ship aesthetic that much.
Wouldn't require that much thought either. Just another tac/eng escort. Give it a universal boff station or two and some whacky console. Perhaps some kind of sensor trick or something.
They seem to have originally been federation/starfleet ships appropriated by the Maquis and modified. On top of that Starfleet no doubt has hundreds of them impounded somewhere in a junkyard with the war providing a good excuse to put them into service.
Plus it provides a ship for those of us who don't really like the federation ship aesthetic that much.
Wouldn't require that much thought either. Just another tac/eng escort. Give it a universal boff station or two and some whacky console. Perhaps some kind of sensor trick or something.
Post edited by zakharaov on
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I actually like Delta Rising.
No, they're talking about the Maquis Raider. The other one.
That's a Fed ship, the Maquis raider is the one used by Chakotay.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I actually like Delta Rising.
Also try to remember this ship was large enough to have a crew of anywhere from twenty to sixty.
Judging by the number of former maquis who padded out Voyagers crew.
Since the federation copied one trick the Maquis came up with it's not hard to see them going with another.
Personally I think a good idea for the ships "special ability" might be letting it slot one T5 ship console from almost any other ship. To represent modularity and a habit of making things just work.
This makes them very much akin to the so-called "technicals" used by rebel groups for example in the middle east. Here is the technical MLRS version:
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liqnwu0VyT1qft8tjo1_400.jpg
it's the kind of thing you build when you have nothing else to fall back on.
And in case of the Maquis in the DMZ they were used to harrass their respective counterparts in the Cardassian colonies and probably indimidate some freighters.
Beyond that they'd already be outgunned be the smallest military ship, possibly a small patrol craft like the Hideki would alreay outperform them.
There's a reason the Maquis was wiped out...
That would be the Condor class, which in fact was a small raider. De is talking about the Peregrine (technically he's talking about the ship assumed to be a Peregrine, since the ship referred to in Heart of Stone was never shown on-screen, so no comparison can be made between it and other Peregrine type fighters).
Ex-Astris does a fairly decent job of cataloguing the head-scratching here. There's a great deal of hand-waving involved here to deal with the notable lack of continuity.
No problem:)
I was lucky enough to catch the first TV broadcast fo the DS9 episode "The Maquis" back in...okay that I don't remember right now. Anyway the question why anyone would be insane enought to modify a courier into some kind of combat ship armed with photon launchers stuck in my mind.
So whenever someone brings these ships up the word "courier" jumps into my mind.
Anyway here's a transcript of their first "appearance":
DUKAT: Cardassian shuttles attacking a Federation merchant ship?
SISKO: They seem to be armed with Galor-class phaser banks.
DUKAT: They must be from Cardassian colonies in the Demilitarised zone. Hail them.
SISKO: No response.
DUKAT: Open a channel.
SISKO: Go ahead.
DUKAT: To the pilots of the Cardassian attack vessels. This is Gul Dukat, Commander of the Second Order. Please respond. This is Gul Dukat, security identification ADL four zero. I order you to immediately disengage your attack.
SISKO: We're still two minutes away. The Federation vessel's shields are down to forty percent.
DUKAT: Hail those Cardassians again. I don't know who you are or where you come from, but you're going to pay for this, I promise you. Answer me immediately or I personally will fire the photons that will destroy you. Arm the photons.
SISKO: The photon launcher is there.
DUKAT: I know. I knew all about these controls before I ever came aboard. Tell me when we're in torpedo range.
SISKO: Stand by. I'm picking up another ship moving toward them.
DUKAT: That's a Federation signature I believe, Commander.
SISKO: It sure isn't from Starfleet. I've never seen a ship configuration like that before. It almost seems like someone has modified an old support courier. Hailing them. No response. They've fired torpedoes. what kind of civilian vessel that size would be carrying photon?
DUKAT: Something from one of your colonies, perhaps?
(The two Cardassian blips vanish from the monitor.)
DUKAT: Do you begin to see, Commander, that without any help from either one of us, they've managed to start their own little war out here.
Please note the words "courier" and "civilian" so...it's really not a kind of combat ship.:)
The worst part is that on Voyager they managed to turn the 68 meter long ship into a magic clown car with over 40 people aboard.:mad:
They were used as raiders...but please answer one thing: why would civilian colonies own a ship class that is a military "raider"? That's stupid.
Why would civilian partisans mounting a guerrilla war against a hostile government without support from their own government own and operate fast attack vessels?
Do you actually have to ask that question?
Read the Ex Astris piece. It does an excellent job of breaking down on-screen details as to what is, and what is not, attributed to each shown (and not shown) ship in the Maquis "navy". There is zero detail given on where the Condor/Raider II type ships come from.
What I'm asking is whether the ships were already "raiders" when the civilian colonies obtained them (the factory version) or whether they converted them into raiders by mounting military hardware on them.
Because I seriously doubt the Federation would let them obtain an actual combat ship of that size.
That's a question that doesn't have an answer I'm afraid. There's no attribution as to when said ships were acquired and when said militarization occurred. It's entirely within the realm of plausibility that the Maquis purchased some, or all, of their ships from third parties.
Additionally, the Federation is shown to be remarkably inept at stopping the flow of materiel to the Maquis, so making the argument that before the Maquis were formed Starfleet could interdict said weaponry seems a bit problematic.
Well there where a lot of main characters on board, so they added in extra Red Shirts to compensate for the high casualties from heavy combat in Sweet Tooths Truck
I imagine the writers where thinking back to how black beard got started...there where federation officers amongst them too, im pretty sure they wouldt forget to bring weapons from thier old employers.
That's the big issue here isn't it?
Did the Federation ever produce and operate "raiders"?
(And I think we can agree those were Federation ships, not from someone else.)
For the civilian market?
The term in and of itself is already contradictory and for non-starfleet use it seems pretty much impossible.
So we're back at modified FedEx trucks...
Given the way "Peregrines" were embraced and developed into the frontline combat fighter that has been in use by the Federation for decades as of STO, does it actually matter?
You and I could go around in circles for the rest of the day on this De, but I think a bigger picture outlook is applicable here, especially in light of how thin the canon details are on these ships.
You bring up another good point, the black market...im reminded a rule from our Lobi friends:
#34: War is good for Business.
In brightest day
and darkest night
black market photon
shine us the light
:P
You forget what happens to old ships. They get demilitarised and sold to private owners.
Or they remain militarised and are sold to small governments.
But yeah they're probably militarised courier ships.
Since the federation adopted one Maquis piece of gear and made their own variant of it. I don't see any reason why in a time of war they wouldn't go and do this again.
Forgot to mention. It could also be a ship used by pro-federation partisans fighting Dominion/True Way forces.
They could be old Maquis ships dragged out of storage, modernised and put back into use. Or sold to Ferengi.
The Federation would probably not use them for the same reasons they obviously didn't use them in the Dominion War almost 40 before...when they were 40 years less outdated.;)
They would make sense as additional NPC civilian combat ships though.
p.s. I didn't forget what happens to old/surplus militray ships...but do those ships like anything Starfleet would use?;)
I also doubt Starfleet would operate "Raiders"...even in the 2330's
Would make for a very nice pack though. A ship with a unique bridge more like the Belfast bridge, comes with a Maquis inspired costume, some boffs and gear.
The Federation Partisan pack. For all those who support the federation but don't have time for all that academy TRIBBLE.
One major flaw in your reasoning:
The Federation didn't wait forty years to bring Peregrines into the fold.
Just...no.
If you're using the Lobi consortium as your justification for anything, you've already lost the argument.
since Cryptic has pretty much killed off any good chance for a Cardassian/Dominion faction, I think the idea for a civilian/non-alligned "cops/raiders/traders/privateers/mercenaries/prospectors" faction would make a good choice for a 4th faction.
In such a scenario the Maquis raider would make sense as a decent T1 starter ship.