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I just realised. . .
timezarg
Member Posts: 1,268
How few T5 C-store ships the KDF faction has. I was making a post about it somewhere else, and I specifically looked to see what T5 C-store vessels we have. . .I was taken aback a little.
We have precisely 6 T5 C-store ships to purchase, with one of them (the Bortas'qu) offering several variants.
I then looked at what the Federation has in T5 options, and it really sunk in just how much they get to choose from, and the disparity between Federation T5 and KDF T5 options. The Federation has 11 C-store ships to pick from, with three of them (Andorian Escort, Odyssey Star Cruiser, and Multi-Mission Expolorer) having several variants each.
Gah, this is depressing. Imma fly around in my Guramba a bit.
EDIT: Corrected number of C-store ships KDF has. Thanks for correcting, Zebramanii.
We have precisely 6 T5 C-store ships to purchase, with one of them (the Bortas'qu) offering several variants.
I then looked at what the Federation has in T5 options, and it really sunk in just how much they get to choose from, and the disparity between Federation T5 and KDF T5 options. The Federation has 11 C-store ships to pick from, with three of them (Andorian Escort, Odyssey Star Cruiser, and Multi-Mission Expolorer) having several variants each.
Gah, this is depressing. Imma fly around in my Guramba a bit.
EDIT: Corrected number of C-store ships KDF has. Thanks for correcting, Zebramanii.
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Guramba, B'rel, Bortasqu' varients, Kar'fi. That's all.
Everything else falls under:
Normal dil ships (Negh'var, Hegh'ta, etc)
Mirror universe ships
Lockbox ships (which anyone can use anyways)
FC-costing ships (like the standard issue Bortas)
Fleet ships (like the Fleet B'rel, Fleet Corsair, etc)
Wow...
The developers say Klingon will get more ships. Meanwhile there are hundreds of non-klingon endgame ships in game. That being said we did get 2 cruisers and a destroyer this year, maybe next month we cam get a t5 raptor that turns properly?
Federation - Mirel II, Tala Lyleh sh'Ezlem, Vro'kul, Jahrel, Giweatu, Jhrol th'Ezlem, Katariina Rebane, Eleftheria Palaiologou, Surel, Saimon, TheEfficientSaurian
KDF -Mirel I, Anirez Norai, Talash
Romulans - T'Lara, Makath 'The Needle' Ayailat, Mirel III
On top of that, we got shortchanged on the Fleet ships somewhat, receiving less options there.
It'll most likely end up being a destroyer, because I forsee Cryptic clinging to the excuse of 'cloak justifies lower tac console amounts, turnrate, and borked turn rate axis'.
Yeah, it would be a pretty tepid excuse to use.
Then again, so was Cryptic's excuse for not providing us with Fleet versions of the Guramba and Kar'fi (something to do with the fact that they don't have detachable consoles providing abilities).
Cryptic doesn't seem to care whether we buy into their reasoning, I guess.
Fleet Ch'tang Bird of Prey! Or Ch'tang retrofit at the very least!
My favorite Bird of Prey skin in the game and it's obsolete after level 40.
I want to fly it once more!
Amen on both of those. Besides, the 'undetachable console' line doesn't hold weight (though can't the Kar'fi move it's console?) anymore either because they have released the B'rel, T'varo, and Excelsior at fleet level, all of which have their own things that cannot be removed.
Though Zebramaniii is right: We forgot about a couple ships. The Varanus and Marauder. Still, that only brings it up to a total of 6.
Romulans also have 6 as well: T'varo-r, D'd-r, Mogai-r, Dhelan-r, Haakona, Scimitar varients.
Btw, are you also counting the VA-level Steamrunner as a C-store ship at the tier 5 level? If so, that might bump the number up to 12.
Either way, both of the other factions TOGETHER just barely equal the Fed-side in terms of tier 5 C-store ships.
Like, at all.
I had my Varnaus, and there was so little to choose from that the entire catalogue missed me entirely. So I didn't buy anything with it. I have (not exaggerating here) over 10,000 Zen just sitting in my account.
Just imagine if I was a paying customer looking to give STO even half that much Zen out of my pocket-- they'd be out fifty buck from hypothetical-other-world-me alone!
(That would be the version of me with disposable income...)
... as for the Romulans only having 6 C-store ships, well... they only came out part-way through this year. I don't think that's exactly a fair comparison is all.
(Wait, the Romulans have 6 C-store ships? I though they only have three kinds of Scimitars! :P)
-- Winston Churchill
The Romulans have 6 C-store ships. T'varo, Dhelan, Mogai, and D'Deridex retrofits, the Haakona, and the Scimitar with its variants (which I'm conservatively calling one ship, since they're based off the same model).
If you consider the 'variant' ships to be individual-countable ships, then the Federation actually has 17 ships, the KDF has 8, and the Romulans have 8.
For everyone's information, Here's what I'm going off of: http://sto.gamepedia.com/Category:Starfleet_Starships
It's a pretty accurate list. According to that, the Romulans have 7 Fleet ships, while the KDF have 13, and the Federation has 18. The Federation also has the advantage of having a more balanced fleet ship selection (same with their C-store ship lineup), a good spread of escorts, cruisers, and science ships. . .while the KDF is a bit big-hulking-ship-heavy (3 raptors/destroyers, 3 BoPs, 1 carrier, 1 flight-deck cruiser, 1 support ship/science cruiser, and 4 battlecruisers). It's not too bad, until you take into consideration that the raptors are limited by their perpetually-borked turnrates, and the flight-deck cruiser is of. . .limited use. That leaves us with essentially one truly competitive Fleet escort-level ship, the Fleet Scourge.
The Romulans have 21 T5 ships.
The Federation has 61 T5 ships, all variants included, and the T5 Steamrunner.
The KDF and Romulans combined almost match the options the Federation alone has. I find this to be an unconscionable disparity between factions. The Romulans are excusable as they're brand new. . .the KDF is not.
They made it hard to play Klingons and than used that as justification to not give us ships or other things, because the numbers are low.
We've been asking for a ship, any ship now for ages. And the Feds despite their vast number still need new ships to fill every conceivable niche. I swear there is a Fed ship for every job and 4 or 5 others that can do a similar job.
KDF is still lacking a 5 Tac Console Escort.
I'm confident we will get a Fleet Garumba and Fleet Kar'fi but it's when the Federation get their Fleet Galaxy Dreadnough and Fleet Atrox.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Which begs the question:
If they are waiting to release the Fleet Gal-X because of that silly 'use saucer sep on the Gal-X' thing, that's fine. But if that is the case, then why not at least release a Fleet Atrox and Fleet Kar'fi in the meantime? Honestly, Fleet Gal-X will probably be little more than a glorified Vor'cha-R anyways since I doubt they will change the BOFF layout.
I understand they want to release all the fleet ships in equal numbers for both Fed and KDF, makes sense (though at this rate they are gonna QUICKLY run out of KDF ships if they don't release anymore), but then why wait on releasing one now? Is making a fleet ship a lot more work than we think? If so, again that's fine.
I could go on, but there isn't much point. Plus, I don't always want JUST fleet ships. I understand the KDF mostly re-use old designs with updated tech. It fits the Klingon personality well, 'don't fix what isn't broken' sort of thing.
It doesn't mean that they never EVER make new ships. It also doesn't mean that other groups within the Klingon Empire wouldn't be developing tech as well. Like Gorn under the eye of the Klingons developing a new, dedicated sci ship with Klingon-inspired elements, etc.
The two lower tier BoPs are nice to fill out a 'C-store ship at every tier' thing, but there was still no new tier 5 ships.
Now, if Romulans were the only ones to get new ships of any kind for the rest of the year (flagship class, time sci ship/destroyer, the soon-to-be-released vet ship, etc), that is perfectly fine. They are the new faction, and they have a lot of catch-up to play. Totally ok in my book.
But once that's all done and over with, I doubt that Romulans will be getting as many ships. I've seen some Romulan players say that 'well the devs won't do that, even after we're caught up they won't totally ignore us getting ships'. Well I'd love to see that proved wrong in the future.
What would be REALLY irking would be if Klingons got no ships at all while BOTH Romulans and Feds only got ships in the future, C-store ships that is.
Its obvious, so obvious, KDF ships are intentionally handicapped to balance pre-LoR talent disparity between the Reds and the Blues... Most feds are terrible at this game, please don't post Fed player who "is awesome and I should pm in game because he'll pvp me and show me how good Feds are", don't be that guy... Most Feds are just awful, and I mean truly, truly awful... You know it and I know it...
That being said, now with Romulan shis being so ridiculously strong compared to KDF ships, which were already behind Fed ships, Klingons are in a rough spot... How about I get a 10th console or 5th boff or an average escort hull now for my Fleet Norgh... Will never happen because the devs want the kdf to be the whipping post...
Agreed, I don't want any new ships to just be fleet ships. I want C-store ships that are reasonably competitive. I want variety. We don't really get that quite yet in the KDF, and we're essentially forced to use BoPs to fill the gaps. . .and they can only do so much.
And yes, it would be incredibly annoying if both the Federation and the Romulans received new ship content over the next year, while the KDF receives nothing. I wouldn't put it past them, ultimately, but we'll see what happens.
The Fleet B'Rel really should have had that as a Tac console not engineering. Don't think of it as more engineering think of it as a better place to put a Universal Console.
The Qin should have been our 5 Tac console raptor (despite the quite common hatred of it's pivot). But nope shoved it into engineering again. It should have been 3, 2, 5 not 4, 2, 4.
The Fleet Norgh has 1 Commander (4), 2 Lt.Com (3x2) and a Lieutenant (2) so it does have 12 BOFF powers I think an Ensign wouldn't be fair. But why does it only have 9 consoles? It can't be because of Battle Cloak all Romulan Fleet ships get 10 and they all Battle Cloak.
As for the Fleet Somraw, I feel it's a poor man's Garumba which is funny considering it costs almost the same amount. 4 modules 2000z, Garumba 2500z. Unfortunately that joke is on us.
On the plus side the Fleet Tor'kaht which has a great layout for DPS Cruiser, and it's so very viable with DHCs.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
We got a BoP that qualifies since then.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
It's simple really, the Federation ships sell as the Federation has a healthy population, whereas the KDF ships don't sell because Cryptic has so badly mishandled the faction from the start that the population is tiny by comparison.
Cryptic made a point of saying how many more Odyssey class ships sold than Bortasqu after they were released, and you have to wonder if they understand why that's the case.
The result is that they focus on either making Fed ships, or neutral lockbox ships (or Romulan ships now) as they'll make money on their work, where they won't make as much for working on the battered and abused faction (aka the KDF).
Support a KDF equivalent to the Vesta Here
Indeed. Besides, that whole 'Klingons use old ship designs with newer tech' philosophy (while fitting for them) is mostly because it was cheaper for the people making the shows/movies to do so. You see lots of BoPs, D-7s, etc because they HAD the model already made, and didn't have to do more work.
I thought about something. A lot of people compare the devs or PWE to 'Ferengi'...I don't agree. Because any true Ferengi would NEVER ignore such a significant amount of their customer base and potential profit. "The riskier the road, the greater the profit." They took a BIG risk with Romulans being released, and so far as I can tell: It paid off in spades for em. My point being that they aren't willing to take a risk with a new Klingon ship, because they use the 'low population' and 'failure of the last Klingon ship (Bortas)' as overly-used and dead excuses to not do so.
Plus, few Klingon designs means that they can really make some VERY interesting choices, go their OWN path. Like using Klingon and Gorn inspired elements on a new dedicated science ship, or maybe bringing in Letheans or Ferasans with their own ships. They have SO much room to be REALLY creative with, and they aren't taking it.
Don't forget about the Varanus. It also gets a discount.
Still doesn't change much though huh? The only other possible ships that could get a discount are the Kar'fi, Marauder Flight-deck cruiser, and Guramba. B'rel and Varanus are already there, while the Bortas obviously wouldn't count because of it being the flagship class and also having 10 consoles.
Oh ya, I forgot. It's hard to keep up on the game since it's been broken and unlaunchable for so long.
Thanks for the correction, 2 in 2 seasons WOO-HOO !
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
The issue with the Marauder flight-deck cruiser is another annoyance of its own. We have a fleet-level flight-deck cruiser, it's just conveniently not the Marauder. It's the Corsair, an upgrade from a T4 ship, and therefore doesn't qualify.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
The difference between KDF and Starfleet is that the KDF has in-canon examples of recycling old ship models, whereas the Federation prefers to design new ships every 30-40 years and switch over. The only reason Mirandas were even in battle was because Starfleet pulled them out of retirement in desperation, due to a shortage of ships.
As long as the raptor doesn't have a borked turnrate, I'm okay with that
And yes, a Fleet Hegh'ta would be nice.
Correct. The B'Rels have been in service for so long. TMP-era movies, TNG, TNG-era movies, DS9 / Dominion War-era. In all these eras and shows, the B'Rel has made an appearance. Even the K'T'Inga / D7 series make appearances during DS9 for the Dominion War. And those were updated and used since the TOS era, where they were expected to square off with Starfleet's Constitution-class.
The Klingons are able to squeeze the life out of a number of designs. They still need to make new ones, but they can extend the life of existing ships.
I don't need the Dual Console sets or the Singularity abilities, (Matter/Antimatter gets more Subsytem power than Singularity) I would like a balance pass since every Romulan ship now Battle cloaks so why does our only Battle Cloak have such massive weaknesses?
I think every ship in the game needs a balance pass.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I know the current build of the Scimitar takes a bit of the air out of my argument here, but I really and sincerely do not believe that the KDF should have a 5-fore-weapon Klingon ship.
They could totally use a 5-fore-weapon ship from one of their ally races (probably the Nausicaans), but not on a platform that cloaks.
You think the Kumari is trouble? Try one that decloaks at point blank range in your aft quarter, then unloads on you both without warning and with an extra 5% damage buff from the cloak-ambush ability.
I know we can get a bit bitter at the fun toys that the Earthers and Romulans have, but you really can't with that on even them, can you?
-- Winston Churchill