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Seriously. Tholians.
dontirri
Member Posts: 44 Arc User
I wasn't sure where to put this but since Tholians appear in atleast 3 fleet actions, I decided to put it here.
Seriously, Tholians need reworking. The space versions I mean. They're bloody ridiculous to fight. Not hard no, just annoying and frustrating. Neither which is a good thing.
They got two things that just drive me nuts. The web, or rather the bugs in the web. It's "fun" to be caught inside one of those and be STUCK there because none of the nodes seem to be targettable.
And secondly... the weapon disable. That thing is seriously putting me off on anything Tholian-related. It seems totally random. Sometimes I can fight two, three ships in a row without being disabled, sometimes I get disabled five, six times in a row. Having to spend 15 seconds without being able to shoot is downright disheartening in an escort when it's kill or be killed. If Hazard Emitters cleansed the debuff it wouldn't be such a problem. But it doesn't. I dunno if Science Team or something cleanses it, but using ST would hurt my survivability way too much to be a viable option because it puts TT on cd.
This is not a whine of them being too hard and in need of a nerf so I can roflstomp them. Do something to the weapon disable and I'm completely fine with them. As it stands, having a completely random debuff that makes me a sitting duck without being able to do a damn thing about it just makes me not wanna do anything Tholian-related.
Seriously, Tholians need reworking. The space versions I mean. They're bloody ridiculous to fight. Not hard no, just annoying and frustrating. Neither which is a good thing.
They got two things that just drive me nuts. The web, or rather the bugs in the web. It's "fun" to be caught inside one of those and be STUCK there because none of the nodes seem to be targettable.
And secondly... the weapon disable. That thing is seriously putting me off on anything Tholian-related. It seems totally random. Sometimes I can fight two, three ships in a row without being disabled, sometimes I get disabled five, six times in a row. Having to spend 15 seconds without being able to shoot is downright disheartening in an escort when it's kill or be killed. If Hazard Emitters cleansed the debuff it wouldn't be such a problem. But it doesn't. I dunno if Science Team or something cleanses it, but using ST would hurt my survivability way too much to be a viable option because it puts TT on cd.
This is not a whine of them being too hard and in need of a nerf so I can roflstomp them. Do something to the weapon disable and I'm completely fine with them. As it stands, having a completely random debuff that makes me a sitting duck without being able to do a damn thing about it just makes me not wanna do anything Tholian-related.
Post edited by dontirri on
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Large arc weapons will help with their web nodes, normally the one at the very top or bottom is the easiest to target. Then again if you're running a Beam Boat, FAW will shred the place.
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-Thomas Marrone
Sort of hijacking this, the fact that TT is considered the leader in survivability out of the Teams still needs to be addressed by Cryptic somewhere down the line...
Back on topic, I keep an ET on one of my engineers to swap to whenever I fight Tholians specifically because of the Weapons disable, even though I already run EPtW. The thing is, I have EPtW on a 100% uptime cycle, so I can't rely on it to be available when my weapons are disabled. Normally my ET slot is filled by A2SIF simply for the reason you already stated, ET interferes with TT (yes, I use it for survivability too, but I still think it needs to be redone).
I also run a FAW boat, but because I run a tank build I'm often firing FAW at the start of a fight to get attention from as many Tholians as possible, which means I'm often between uses when I get stuck in an orb, and I agree that those nodes need better targeting on them, or that those nodes need to be vulnerable as they're appearing. Many times I've seen my beams auto-targeting the nodes as they appear, but to no effect, and then FAW runs out and the orb comes together still completely intact and I can't seem to target any of the nodes manually. That said, my build could still be adapted to deal with it, such as using a different AoE to gain attention, or just holding off on FAW until an orb shows up and hoping the other members of my team can survive until then (which they usually can).
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
Why do people keep complaining about them just because they don't know how to fight them. I like a good challenge. Don't like it, don't play against them. Personally, I'd like to see more of them!
What people in this thread don't seem to grasp is that the OP knows how to fight and counter them, doesn't think that they're too hard, just that they're annoying as hell.
I agree with him. Tholians are weak as hell, even their named ships in RA, Vault and FA can easily be soloed by just sitting there without any resistance needed. Yet they're still annoying.
More an issue of bad encounter design, rather than an issue of them being to hard/easy.
FAW negates their net thingy.
If you have that Red Matter Capacitor you can negate their weapons disable effect as well.
To me the Tholians and the New Alien Species that are attacking the Roms are both annoying and have way too much defense for the size and design of their ships.
To the OP - your problems seem to be build related. As noted EPtW and ET will solve your weapon issue and a friend with BFaW will fix the web.
FALSE. (sadly)
(Unless this has been changed.)
Adapt your build to include emergency power and aux power abilities, power to shields and weapons are a must when dealing with tholians, as long as you can keep your subsystems operational, you'll find it some what easier.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
To expand on what people have already said there are several ways to fix the weapon disable, the Nukara set 2pc bonus gives you a passive that repairs your weapons after 4 seconds if disabled. ET, Weapons batts and capacitors, and EPtW all bring your weapons back online after a disable.
Tholians aren't hard. There are ways to counter their mechanics, but why would you bother?
Sure, they put you in a web for 10 seconds or whatever. But it isn't dangerous. Sure, they turn off your weapons for 10 seconds, but it isn't dangerous. All it does is cause you to "lose a turn." You just sit there, not engaging with the game, unless you have a counter specifically for that, but all that does is save 5 seconds and you've put time and effort in to mitigating annoyance...
Why should you be annoyed in the first place? From a game design perspective, players should never be tolerating your game. Games are based in psychology, and players will do just about anything the developer/designer asks them to if they think they'll be rewarded or feel like it's what they're supposed to do. If this means your players are just tolerating some aspect of the game but doing it anyway, they're not having fun, and they won't want to do it again.
Tholians are some of the easiest enemies in this game to defeat, but they're bar none my least favorite enemy, just because it seems like they sat down and thought "what's the most annoying NPC build we can come up with?" and named it "Tholian."
Oh, and for the record, the Red Matter Capacitor does not clear weapons disable from the tholians, despite it saying it should.
I will agree that there needs to be a CD on the proc though. 5-10 seconds on the subsystem that was taken offline.
If the game played this clip once every 30 minutes, and pushing any key on the keyboard immediately stopped it, it would be incredibly easy to deal with, but you wouldn't want it to be there...
The complaint isn't QQ they turned off my guns, it's EEAEEAEEAAEEAEEAEAHEAHHHH SHUT UP AND LET ME PLAY!
The weapons offline is just ridiculous.
It procs so often at times and others never.
Adapt build you say. Brilliant, I'll slot 10 skills just to bring weapons online, TRIBBLE anything for damage or survivability. When it starts to proc, it hits once, weapons come back on line for all of 2 seconds then go offline again, repeat this cycle 5,6,7 times on the bounce. There are only so many skills that can be slotted.
All it needs is a tweak, maybe give it an offline mode as is but with an immunity for the player for say 30 seconds. That will stop or reduce the frustration for players with limited slots for engineer, devices or sci.
I have also noticed that Tac team isn't reliable at helping with the issue, sometimes it seems to work, other times it doesn't do anything.
Because Tac Team has absolutely nothing to do with subsystem disables.
This is true, don't actually know why I mentioned it tbh lol.
Exactly. I always use singularity jump. I tried FAW over and over again but it never worked. One other thing that works well in my Scimitar are the drone ships. They take care of the nodes in no time.
As a side note... wouldn't it be kind of fun to just sit back and watch the Breen and Tholians duke it out. Ice and Fire and all...