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Scimi tips
jaimeson99
Member Posts: 43 Arc User
Hi,
I am pleased to say that there seems to be a ship in the game that actually has a learning curve.
I had the same problems as many others with the scimi at release (it's very squishy) but I think I have at least a partial grasp of how to keep it alive while doing crazy damage.
Before I make my suggestions I must make it clear that I am playing a 5 tac console+all the set consoles version of the scimi. There are some very valid builds which are way more tanky (notably the Tulwar with massive shield regen/strength) and what follows maybe not be so relevant to people with that kind of setup.
Anyway, suggestions for how to not die many many times in elite STFs.
Firstly - cloak almost always when you can. The fact you lose no defence strength due to the Singularity Distribution Unit keeping your shields running through the cloaking process, coupled with the insanely short cooldown on your battle cloak means that while you might take a few hits, you are going to be able to heal that while you are "invisible". Your cloak almost becomes a no downside invulnerability power that you can use pretty much constantly, which brings me to,
Second - Use the Cloaked Barrage ability whenever you can. Being invulnerable is good apparently (ask a Vesta pilot) and being able to fire/use doff powers/etc while being invulnerable might also be good. The issue is that most other invuln effects are used when you are taking a lot of aggro and it keeps you alive while escaping. This is kind of the opposite as you use it before you have taken damage. Fifteen seconds of beam overload or cannon rapid fire, torp spread/high yield plus grav wells or whatever else you have available means that if you choose to decloak after your lengthy alpha you probably dont have much left to kill while you are targetable. Please note decloaking is optional too - apologies to the others in your team but let that Oddy or Bortas take some hits before you reappear to throw more serious dps at whatever you are fighting.
Third - Thalaron. Ah, the good ole Thalaron. To be honest, dont use it. I like all the abilities from the consoles so its available, but you will almost certainly die if you trigger it.
If you really must use it, set it up first with as many buffs as you can, trigger secondary shields and hope for the best. Warp shadow (singularity ability) actually becomes useful as well because you generate a lot of threat, so making a few other versions of yourself will distract a lot of the aggro. Ive done this a fair few times and it seems to work but Im prepared to be corrected here. It obviously works best with a large group of bad guys in front of you, so isnt that terrible if you or someone else have fired a grav well.
Fourth - Evasive maneuvers. Its maybe worth using a DOFF slot to improve your cooldown on this as your turn rate (especially coupled with cloaking) becomes better that most escorts. You have got five forward weapons after all. Alpha, cloak, evasive to reposition, fire again.
The above wont stop you from ever dying in an ESTF. Theres always that invisible crit torp that will kill you on max shield and hull, but it might help. I rarely have to respawn now using what Ive learned and hopefully this will help a few other people too.
Ill look forward to any other insights and tactics from other players about this very interesting to play ship.
I am pleased to say that there seems to be a ship in the game that actually has a learning curve.
I had the same problems as many others with the scimi at release (it's very squishy) but I think I have at least a partial grasp of how to keep it alive while doing crazy damage.
Before I make my suggestions I must make it clear that I am playing a 5 tac console+all the set consoles version of the scimi. There are some very valid builds which are way more tanky (notably the Tulwar with massive shield regen/strength) and what follows maybe not be so relevant to people with that kind of setup.
Anyway, suggestions for how to not die many many times in elite STFs.
Firstly - cloak almost always when you can. The fact you lose no defence strength due to the Singularity Distribution Unit keeping your shields running through the cloaking process, coupled with the insanely short cooldown on your battle cloak means that while you might take a few hits, you are going to be able to heal that while you are "invisible". Your cloak almost becomes a no downside invulnerability power that you can use pretty much constantly, which brings me to,
Second - Use the Cloaked Barrage ability whenever you can. Being invulnerable is good apparently (ask a Vesta pilot) and being able to fire/use doff powers/etc while being invulnerable might also be good. The issue is that most other invuln effects are used when you are taking a lot of aggro and it keeps you alive while escaping. This is kind of the opposite as you use it before you have taken damage. Fifteen seconds of beam overload or cannon rapid fire, torp spread/high yield plus grav wells or whatever else you have available means that if you choose to decloak after your lengthy alpha you probably dont have much left to kill while you are targetable. Please note decloaking is optional too - apologies to the others in your team but let that Oddy or Bortas take some hits before you reappear to throw more serious dps at whatever you are fighting.
Third - Thalaron. Ah, the good ole Thalaron. To be honest, dont use it. I like all the abilities from the consoles so its available, but you will almost certainly die if you trigger it.
If you really must use it, set it up first with as many buffs as you can, trigger secondary shields and hope for the best. Warp shadow (singularity ability) actually becomes useful as well because you generate a lot of threat, so making a few other versions of yourself will distract a lot of the aggro. Ive done this a fair few times and it seems to work but Im prepared to be corrected here. It obviously works best with a large group of bad guys in front of you, so isnt that terrible if you or someone else have fired a grav well.
Fourth - Evasive maneuvers. Its maybe worth using a DOFF slot to improve your cooldown on this as your turn rate (especially coupled with cloaking) becomes better that most escorts. You have got five forward weapons after all. Alpha, cloak, evasive to reposition, fire again.
The above wont stop you from ever dying in an ESTF. Theres always that invisible crit torp that will kill you on max shield and hull, but it might help. I rarely have to respawn now using what Ive learned and hopefully this will help a few other people too.
Ill look forward to any other insights and tactics from other players about this very interesting to play ship.
Post edited by jaimeson99 on
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Comments
Nothing personal OP, but there's been ships with learning curves in the past *cough* Bortas *cough*, it's more that most people weren't as willing to actually TRY and learn those ships as much.
Heck, aside from getting used to the turn axis (wasn't used to having a completely WIDE ship with nothing really 'up front'), I was nearly right at home in the Scimitar compared to flying my Bortas. I'd long since been used to how I needed to think about how it would fly due to the Bortas.
All that aside, it wasn't anything against you OP, just that really it's not the first ship that has a learning curve, more that it's the first ship with a learning curve a lot of people actually WANT to learn.
Good tips and info though.
Yeah fair point, maybe I overstated that a little. What I was really getting at is the fact it doesnt really fly like anything else in the game and the learning curve is rather longer than most, if not all, of what came before (and I am probably only half way along the curve atm).
Anyway, thanks for the comments
Np, I just wanted to point out that it isn't the only ship with a 'learning curve'.
Also, on the Thalaron pulse (this is to anyone reading this), most people aren't used how the ship flies, thus a lot of people tend to over shoot their target, or only get within the 10 KM range (and some even outside that range), and don't seem to buff it either in any way a good portion of the time, not even an aux battery.
Can you also tell any good rep skill that will make the scimitar better please.
Thank you
Scmitar squishy? hmm, I did not have that problem at all, must have been gear/skill point problems.
The scimitar has made me forget all about my fleet assault cruiser and JHAS. I love it, and from day 1 I was in kerrat and eSTF's blowing stuff up like nothing. It is a great ship, and the console set is fun.
Best 50 bucks i ever spent in this game. I have only blown up once, and that was because of a group that was clueless during elite Donotra fight. I was 1 vs 1 with her for a couple of minutes, dropped her health from 100% to 45% by myself while the other 4 people in the group waited to respawn from dying over and over again from her Thaleron pulse..lol
The ship is not squishy. It has a 1.1 shield mod, 56,500 hull with my gear and skill points. it works well, especially with the battle cloak and keeping shields up while cloaked...win win for me
On average the amount of my total damage that comes from TP is 3-7% per engagement. That's with buffing it to or near 120 before firing. I think I'm done trying to cater to it however. It's just not worth it.
Then there is the real elephant in the room. The Romulan and Reman space sets are astonishingly poor. You get a deflector that boosts science, an engine that gives a slight turn bonus and/or defense bonus and the worst shield of all the sets as it has no resistance to anything and poor regen. The set bonuses are the same where you get a passive boost to PG (this is good) and a passive boost to speed/defense for Plasma torpedoes (what is this doing on a Reman set?), then it's topped off by yet another Science set bonus that boosts your maximum shield capacity when under fire. An utterly useless bonus for a tactical player. This was so lazy of them it's jaw dropping.
What Cryptic needs to do is re-do the space sets so they can be generally good for a ship type like they did with the Jem'Hadar set. I don't know why they stopped overhauling them there. Do they care?
Long story short you should be looking at some of the Omega rep sets if you want to be mildly useful.
Congrats. You have no issues so the problem must be with the players. Forgive me while I groan and roll my eyes.
The dozens of us who have posted pointing out the various problems kindly disagree.
Expected such a response. Basically it comes down to L2P better. There is nothing wrong with the ship.
My advice is to obtain better gear...elite fleet, MK XII Maco or Adapted. The ship is not squishy, it is fine the way it is. Even oddessy's pop like popcorn against this beast of a ship.
Sorry, it is not the ship, it must be you.
I see alot of poor folks out there using the jem hadar and reman/romulan space gear...its quite sad. Best thing to do is goto your fleet store, buy elite fleet space gear or obtain the MACO MK XII and boom!, you will be effective again..stop using garbage gear and the ship is fine...l2p
And I expected such a retort.
I used the exact same gear on my Adapted Destroyer in the exact same STFs with less effective shields/hull (different skill setup). and had no such issues.
Some of us know what we are doing and have a fair amount of experience with different ships to know better.
You made your point. If you have nothing constructive to say then move along. From this point on I'm ignoring you and I suggest everyone do the same. Lets not feed trolls.
Cant say I completely agree with the guy saying its not squishy, however he has a point that a lot of its survivability lies in the correct use of its abilities - particularly the cloak (or as he rather childishly put it, "l2p"). So you are both right, from a certain point of view. Play nice now please?
I did touch on this a fair amount in my OP - its not an easy ship to play. This was why I chose to post my comments here to maybe help others - im not claiming to be pro or the best scimi pilot out there but what ive learned so far has converted my experience of it from "a bit of a laugh" to "one of the most effective ships I own". Obviously getting Mk12 fleet or rep gear helps enormously, but bear in mind a lot of casual players wont have got tier 5 Omega rep on their Romulan characters yet. I have only just upgraded from Aegis to Mk12 Borg, and the improvement is staggering.
Anyway, I hoped this thread would garner some discussion and maybe some tips and insights from other players about how they made their scimis great. Thx for the comments so far.
Obviously, you need to adapt your gameplay to the ship's behaviour. I did and I'm having better results. But from the very first moment I noticed that the Scimitar is not as sturdy as one might think and certainly not as much as it probably should considering the ship it's supposed to be.
Yeah, fair point. Most people will probably get the fact that better kit is better. Sadly the guy telling us to "l2p" offered no advice other than "get Mk12 gear".
Completely agree with you that getting used to the Scimi's abilitys and how best to deploy them gives better results. Would be interested to know how you adapted your playstyle with it to make it more effective (this being the point of the thread
Depends what you want from your Scimitar. If you want tank, there's one thing you can use, you want pure damage, there's another.
What do you want your ship to do? Answer that, and then we can answer your question.
Well, firstly I admitted and accepted that "battleship play" was out of the question at least the way I do it on my Odyssey. So, I used an escort configuration on it and play it like one. DHC and quantum torpedo launcher fore, all turrets aft. Tactical slots with damage % boost for Polaron (I bought phased polaron from the exchange) and the set consoles on engineering and science slots. I added a neutronium on the engineering slot and the zero point console on the last science slot. Paratrinic shield, singularity core that gives + to shield, engines that give turn and positronic deflector for + shields and structural integrity. The plan is to eventually (it will take some time) replace the polarons with romulan plasma and get MACO shields. Also, the borg console will probably replace the neutronium. Not sure yet.
The BOff abilities are:
2 Tactical Team
APB
APO
Cannon scatter volley
Cannon rapid fire
Torpedo spread
Engineering Team
Emergency power to shields
Reverse shield polarity
Hazzard emitters
Science team
The strategy is to do as much damage as possible on the alpha strike and try not to stand still. Using firing while cloaked every time I can and using secondary shields and quantum absorption to deal with the damage taken when I do need to be stationary. First attack is usually APO + Scatter volley + Torpedo spread + TT, then APB + Cannon rapid fire when they cool down from the shared cool down period the first strike puts them on.
Also, when I fire while cloaked, I usually decloak after the alpha strike so that the APB + CRF gets the decloak damage buff.
The Scimitar also made me "selfish". While on the Odyssey I can survive without great care, thus I tend to use the heals on others, on the Scimitar I can't normally do the same. I do it at times, but not as much. It's a more "romulan" style, no doubt.
My setup weapons wise is very similiar to yours with cannons, turrets, torp and cutting beam. Went with photons as I am currently using a doff that can give shield power every time you fire so I figured go for faster firing torps.
Boff setup is quite different from mine which just illustrates that there are a lot of viable builds. Only thing I would say about yours is you have a lot of the "team" abilities which have shared cooldowns so could be problematic. That said, if it works for you then its all good.
Interesting to see how someone else has built it. Thx for sharing
I'm still two weeks away from Tier5 Rep sets. Not sure how far until my fleet unlocks the XII Ultra Elite Singularity Core. We unlock the interior of the mine in a few days so that pitiful item I use now will get replaced soon. I also don't have a perfect DOF setup as some are only rare.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=flayedangel_4243
Note: I use Very Rare Romulan Drones and they help immensely.
Also you can't see my science consoles because stoacademy doesn't have the Scimitar consoles listed yet. I'm still running with all 3 to test various things.
Hi all, thank you for your posts.
Im a tac, I will be flying a Scimitar.
I have based my builds around the work of dontdrunkimshoot
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=11268171&postcount=821
and my consoles and the skills that boosted them.
I would like my build's to be used in estfs and pvp.
I have tried to hit 125/125/125/130 with the leech consoles ( I may swap for maco shields, if thats better ??? ) the reason for this is T4 nukara rep skill for the 20% bonus. I just dont know which to pick yet. ( any ideas ? ) and tanking
also one of my builds has tyken's rift the reason for this is there is a rom doff the reduces non boffs skills CD from the deflector dish by 50% aka Thalaron Pulse.
blank spaces are the rom dread 3pc.
my warp core on both will be the fleet warp core that boosts my shields and engines power.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=newscimitar_993
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=newscimitar2_993
please post any info to help me, it would be great to get views,
i have just made this wip build for the consoles. please post your views.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=scimeditedconsoles_993
This is my build (gaps are for the scimi set, for some reason they dont show up) its a nice combination for max damage with max fire arc, can do between 5k-9.5k dps with it depending on how I am flying at the time and against what targets.
The several teams came from necessity. I am still not sure if the issues with the Scimitar are all solved. I'm getting less problems, but I still get some very strange damage at times. But when I first got the ship I was faced with several problems:
-Incredible hull damage without damage to shields
-Shields not regenerating
-Absurd damage to shields, and then to the hull
-Tactical team would not rotate shields
The first "team" that I noticed helped with all the problems was science team. But when getting only hull damage and not loosing shields it made more sense to use engineering team rather than buff the shields as well, healing less hull and then finding myself a few seconds later taking normal shield damage and now without heal available. This way I had one for each situation also having the possibility to deal with the next situation I would encounter. Tactical Team is just something I got used to having and using frequently because sometimes it would work and rotate the shields, and it always helps at buffing your attacks. But yeah, sometimes it's problematic by sending ST into cooldown.
But it seems that since the patch things are indeed changed, so now I'm using engineering team far less so it may eventually be replaced.
As for the sharing, it's my pleasure
The only thing "against" it is that I think you should have all Induction Coils in your tactical slots.
Do you find need for the Shield Absorbtion console with the MACO shields + BOff abilities?
How about putting the shield absorpetive console instead of the SIF generator and adding another plasma infuser?
And I probably would replace the Ambiplasma for another infuser as well. The +% you get to the torpedo will be used far less than the + % to the beams.
I understand your reasoning and have had similiar issues with absurdly large random hits that seem to break even full shields/hull. The ship pulls a lot of threat so that might be part of the problem. I would still advocate using aux to structural in place of one of the eng teams, which while it heals less doesnt trigger cooldown on the tac/sci team abilities, and also only has a 15sec cooldown itself.
My build has been evolving since I wrote the original post (I appreciate I havent linked my fit, mainly due to the skill planner not behaving on my system for some reason) and I have found using the full Borg (mk12) set is actually a good fit for this ship. Many people will say use maco shields and get the 2-part borg bonus, but my thinking here is that the issue is quick regen while you are running away cloaked and the borg kit does that better than anything else. Plus the tractor beam isnt bad in a world where borg spheres love to go emergency power to engines, running to the hills while you fire a volley or two. You also get a welcome (if small) boost to power levels from it.
Currently trying out having the other borg set fitted as well for extra dps (omega weapon amplifier) and the occasional triggering of reactive deflection, not to mention the additional passive boosts to hull regen etc from having the assimilated module fitted. I have some reservations here as I have sacrificed my only remaining shield boosting console to do this. I considered putting it in place of a tac console, but that seemed to be counter intuitive for what I was trying to make the ship do.
Anyway has been very interesting to see how others have set their scimis up and has justified me making the thread. As always, thanks for the comments and suggestions.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=scimitacreman_0
I have the ship up and the skills up. The character itself is less important, but this build is quite effective at keeping me alive.
The missing parts are the sci console slots which go to the scimi uni consoles, and the DOffs, which are 3 PWO, 1 SDO, and 1 WCE.
It works great for hit and run, and can do sustained combat for a little while before I need to recloak and recuperate. It has served me well though.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=irwnaberius_0
The two spare console slots are for the cloaked barrage and singularity distributor unit. I also have reinforced shield repair drones in the hangar. I find she does pretty well in all PvE.
Peacekeeper High Command
Scorpius - Zelbinion Mk II
1.) I agree, the cloak is a valuable asset and the ambush buff is spectacular.
2.) cloaked barrage is good, but I prefer the ambush. I don't know why, but CB doesn't feel like it does as much damage as uncloaked fire. Also, you are far from invulnerable - while using CB you can still be hit by BFAWs and TSs (but you got shields so whatever)
3.) I think the thalaron pulse is very effective in the right situation. I use it all the time to clear out the tholians and fragments in CCE and to take care of the probe rush on KSE after the first gate pops.
4.) Evasive is kind of a given. Also those deuterium cans do pretty much the same thing so you may want look into that. Also, a good singularity core helps with turn rates - my power is usually ~72 plus i occasionally use batteries.
Also, consider this
5.) If you die a lot in eSTFs, you may want to switch that ltcmdr. universal to a sci or eng for increased durability - especially if you use DBBs.
6.) Also, try setting your hangar pets on intercept instead of attack to take care of torps and fragments in CCE
Remember: the dreadnoughts can fill a variety of rolls from a heavy escort-battleship to a hardened tank or sci carrier. Either way, it is lethal if used correctly
Ajma420 - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Federation
Catherine The Great - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Empire
Vladimir - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Rihannsu Empire
Excellent - thx for the suggestions. Ill go look at deutronium cans next time im "on" my Rom.
Agree ambush does way more damage (especially with a few of the rom boffs with subterfuge and (advanced pls) romulan operative) but you will mostly remain untouched using cloaked barrage - ive taken tac cubes to low % before it ran out without any meaningful damage taken.
Personally use the universal Lt.com slot as sci already and can certainly recommend it. Mainly chose cos of grav well but it does mean you can have polarize hull for tractor resist, sci team, hazard emitters, plus another Lt slot which I use as tractor repulsors (bounce those high yield torps etc or push those nanite probes back). Grav well, evasive into the middle of the well, fire singularity jump, run away and cloak holds groups plus weakening them significantly.
Re: Thalaron Pulse - I appreciate that in my OP I said "dont use it" despite it being available if you use the 3 set of consoles. I have to admit I will generally fire it occasionally now (and by occasionally I mean maybe once in an STF or a couple of times in other queue stuff). In Azure Nebula its actually pretty good due to the grouped up tholians, but of course be aware of webs which neutralise it. Really a question of comparing your dpsx12 to how many targets you have in front of you. If your thalaron damage x targets is better then all is good. And its a laugh
Anyway, ty for the input and I must now go and modify accordingly on my scimi.