Big fleets have their fleet credits spread out alot, and so this means that all would need to pitch in for these things.
Small fleets, this is a big investment ... and depending on the mix of players, either everyone has minimal stuff, but ... usually u have a fairly big stockpile of fleet-credits on a few players in the fleet ... so if u really need to hunt, go look at the fleet roster and nudge some of those guys with millions of fleet-credits to pony up some ...
As for the project discounts, my fleet currently has all upgrades on hold for the Dili-Mine .. to get the 15% discount ASAP , when that is done we are looking at a complete T4 upgrade set for the starbase, and the sci & embassy T3 upgrade ....
Project -|- Cost -|- Discount -|- Cost after Discount
Upgrade Starbase IV -|- 1,900,000.00 -|- 285,000.00 -|- 1,615,000.00
Contract for Chef on Starbase -|- 240,000.00 -|- 36,000.00 -|- 204,000.00
Station Andorian Personnel Officer -|- 216,000.00 -|- 32,400.00 -|- 183,600.00
Station Bridge Officer Trainer -|- 216,000.00 -|- 32,400.00 -|- 183,600.00
Station Tellarite Personnel Officer -|- 216,000.00 -|- 32,400.00 -|- 183,600.00
Station Vulcan Personnel Officer -|- 216,000.00 -|- 32,400.00 -|- 183,600.00
Upgrade Starbase V -|- 3,600,000.00 -|- 540,000.00 -|- 3,060,000.00
Station Counselor -|- 270,000.00 -|- 40,500.00 -|- 229,500.00
Station Duty Officer Coordinator -|- 270,000.00 -|- 40,500.00 -|- 229,500.00
Station Skill Respec Officer -|- 270,000.00 -|- 40,500.00 -|- 229,500.00
Upgrade Shipyard IV -|- 900,000.00 -|- 135,000.00 -|- 765,000.00
Upgrade Shipyard V -|- 1,800,000.00 -|- 270,000.00 -|- 1,530,000.00
Station Brig Officer -|- 270,000.00 -|- 40,500.00 -|- 229,500.00
Upgrade Industrial Fabricator IV -|- 900,000.00 -|- 135,000.00 -|- 765,000.00
Upgrade Industrial Fabricator V -|- 1,800,000.00 -|- 270,000.00 -|- 1,530,000.00
Upgrade Communications Array IV -|- 900,000.00 -|- 135,000.00 -|- 765,000.00
Upgrade Transwarp Conduit IV -|- 900,000.00 -|- 135,000.00 -|- 765,000.00
Upgrade Communications Array V -|- 1,800,000.00 -|- 270,000.00 -|- 1,530,000.00
Upgrade Transwarp Conduit V -|- 270,000.00 -|- 40,500.00 -|- 229,500.00
Upgrade Diplomatic Facilities III -|- 750,000.00 -|- 112,500.00 -|- 637,500.00
Upgrade Recruitment Facilities III -|- 750,000.00 -|- 112,500.00 -|- 637,500.00
Upgrade Embassy III -|- 2,000,000.00 -|- 300,000.00 -|- 1,700,000.00
Contact Specialty Consumable Broker -|- 120,000.00 -|- 18,000.00 -|- 102,000.00
Contact Specialty Tailor -|- 90,000.00 -|- 13,500.00 -|- 76,500.00
Totals -|- 20,664,000.00 -|- 3,099,600.00 -|- 17,564,400.00
Limited Time Projects -|- 200,000.00 -|- 30,000.00 -|- 170,000.00
Almost 3M dilithium discount from the upcomming projects my fleet still has to do, excluding all the discounts for the provisioning & vanity that are still comming.
As a sidenote, that still leaves my fleet looking at 17M in dilithium,,,,
I wish the mine came sooner than it did, but for my fleet there is still a substantial gain to be had from leveling the dilmine first .... not that it is really a big savings , but at least the smaller fleets still get quite a benefit from the discounts.
Almost 3M dilithium discount from the upcomming projects my fleet still has to do, excluding all the discounts for the provisioning & vanity that are still comming.
As a sidenote, that still leaves my fleet looking at 17M in dilithium,,,,
I wish the mine came sooner than it did, but for my fleet there is still a substantial gain to be had from leveling the dilmine first .... not that it is really a big savings , but at least the smaller fleets still get quite a benefit from the discounts.
Considering what fleets have to spend to get that "savings", it's not a benefit. You're not going to break even for another full fleet holding.
I should hope that most fleets have people with way more Fleet Credit than they will ever need. Good fleets have people who don't see the Fleet Credits as a means to an end, they are just a happy by-product of doing something you want to do anyway. We just blew thru dil min I in a matter of minutes, no fuss over the dil mine provisions. I don't see that being any different with the other upgrades.
Another thing that is being missed is that dilithium takes time to refine, so saving 200k dil and paying for it with EC, FC or Fleet Marks is just better.
I should hope that most fleets have people with way more Fleet Credit than they will ever need. Good fleets have people who don't see the Fleet Credits as a means to an end, they are just a happy by-product of doing something you want to do anyway. We just blew thru dil min I in a matter of minutes, no fuss over the dil mine provisions. I don't see that being any different with the other upgrades.
Another thing that is being missed is that dilithium takes time to refine, so saving 200k dil and paying for it with EC, FC or Fleet Marks is just better.
True there are people with lots of fleet credits to "burn" - as in they lose them without getting anything in return, but T2 is going to expand this sink into the millions of fleet credits.
Why suck so many fleet credits away from the players?
and they added some mission or ssomething that will give you provisions - but why the extra layer of annoyance - don't players have enough grinding to do already?
So no, my fleet will not break even on the mine with the current projects, but the reason for doing the mine ASAP is not just the dili discount on other projects, but also the new items & missions, like the mining mission, and the consoles & other perks from the holding.
And then all calculations aside ....
The Holdings are meant as a build up for the long term for fleets to work on, it was never meant as cheap or quick to begin with, and provide the fleets who have made them with the perks they grant.
As for how they are doing this ... be glad each and every fleet has the chance to do this, even if it takes years because a small group wants to do it together.
There are several other MMO's out there with long term basebuilding options, but have those options limited to a certain amount for each realm/server ... meaning smaller groups can never start making them at all, because all are taken or auctioned off for incredible prices ( forsaken world has very limited amount of base locations, and the size of the guild depends on the size of the base, be glad we dont have that in STO )
So no, my fleet will not break even on the mine with the current projects, but the reason for doing the mine ASAP is not just the dili discount on other projects, but also the new items & missions, like the mining mission, and the consoles & other perks from the holding.
And then all calculations aside ....
The Holdings are meant as a build up for the long term for fleets to work on, it was never meant as cheap or quick to begin with, and provide the fleets who have made them with the perks they grant.
You've missed the point completely. The D-Mine was repeatedly and explicitly described as the means by which Cryptic would substantially decrease the resource burden on fleets in the short term. Instead, it costs more than it can save.
So either Stahl flat out lied to his players again, or the people who ran the math have no idea what the word "reduce" means. Neither option is in any way a good thing.
You've missed the point completely. The D-Mine was repeatedly and explicitly described as the means by which Cryptic would substantially decrease the resource burden on fleets in the short term. Instead, it costs more than it can save.
So either Stahl flat out lied to his players again, or the people who ran the math have no idea what the word "reduce" means. Neither option is in any way a good thing.
Sometimes devs take the long term view. So they are not going by what currently is available, but what will be available. 2 future Fleet Holdings that have the same costs as the Embassy will make the Mine discounts balance out the Mine costs. After all, you spend over 3 million less dilithium to get to Tier 3 Dilithium Mine compared to the Embassy and there is the Mine Discounts.
You've missed the point completely. The D-Mine was repeatedly and explicitly described as the means by which Cryptic would substantially decrease the resource burden on fleets in the short term. Instead, it costs more than it can save.
So either Stahl flat out lied to his players again, or the people who ran the math have no idea what the word "reduce" means. Neither option is in any way a good thing.
I am just stunned by the colossal increase - almost 10 fold - in the amount of special provisions that go into this project - as they award nothing in return.
perhaps at 600,000 fleet credits it's not as huge shock - but T2 in in the millions of credits down the drain.
Sometimes devs take the long term view. So they are not going by what currently is available, but what will be available. 2 future Fleet Holdings that have the same costs as the Embassy will make the Mine discounts balance out the Mine costs. After all, you spend over 3 million less dilithium to get to Tier 3 Dilithium Mine compared to the Embassy and there is the Mine Discounts.
Call me old fashioned, but when someone tells me something is going to have a "significant impact" on the cost of something, I don't picture a scenario where I only start seeing an actual benefit from my investment until two years later. I picture a scenario where the cost of said something goes down by a not inconsequential amount.
Repeated statements pointed to us getting the latter. Instead, we got the former. And that was only after a near riot when the initial discount percentages were even worse than they are now.
Everyone is going on about costs. All the costs are there to generate fleet credits, which is a huge relief in our fleet as there are a lot of new characters needing fleet credits.
We're also finishing the last tier 1 project in 5 days and then we're onto tier 2 upgrades right after that. It's going rapidly with the projects never stopping for a significant time. You should be enjoying the dil mine upgrading while it lasts.
That just it, tier 1 up-grade will cost you 600.000 fleet-credits.
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This reminds me of a comedian who joked (paraphrasing), "It's like when there's a discount at McDonald's: one burger for $.50. You know there's people who rush out and buy up lots of them for fear that if they don't, they're missing out on the savings. 'Only fifty-cents? I better buy three hundred of them! Such a good value!' "
Yeah so being in a small fleet - lucky I had not bought anything because you need 1200 Mining provisions @ 500 Fleet credits each
Which of course goes right down the toliet as you get nothing back
The Embassy Tier 2 was only 500 embassy provisions - what the heck is going on with this mine??
I know it sucks man, but honestly I'd rather burn 700k+ fleet credits on an upgrade than 380k+ dilithium, namely because I can put the dilithium to use in more areas of the game.
Not to mention that once you start running low on dilithium, it's a lot easier and less time consuming to replenish fleet credits than it is dilithium.
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I know it sucks man, but honestly I'd rather burn 700k+ fleet credits on an upgrade than 380k+ dilithium, namely because I can put the dilithium to use in more areas of the game.
Not to mention that once you start running low on dilithium, it's a lot easier and less time consuming to replenish fleet credits than it is dilithium.
Sure I get that - it's less painful to dump in fleet credits than dilithium - but why have this huge fleet credit sink?
I thought the process of contributing to a starbase was to earn credits to buy stuff - so why have somehing that sucks them back with no return?
And a 10x increase over embassy provisons? - dilithium at least gives you fleet credits back.
Sure I get that - it's less painful to dump in fleet credits than dilithium - but why have this huge fleet credit sink?
I thought the process of contributing to a starbase was to earn credits to buy stuff - so why have somehing that sucks them back with no return?
And a 10x increase over embassy provisons? - dilithium at least gives you fleet credits back.
Because Cryptic wants the resource sink to be a major time gate. The longer you're grinding to meet the needs of your starbase, the more time you have to potentially buy something.
It's the exact same reason that every single addition to the game is going to be either in the starbase or in a reputation system. Instead of offering content that engages players, they're putting in content that deliberately holds players back from getting to rewards.
Sure I get that - it's less painful to dump in fleet credits than dilithium - but why have this huge fleet credit sink?
I thought the process of contributing to a starbase was to earn credits to buy stuff - so why have somehing that sucks them back with no return?
And a 10x increase over embassy provisons? - dilithium at least gives you fleet credits back.
Simply because every fleet has those 2-5 guys (particularly in small fleets) who are the primary contributors to their fleet's base, they have made untold millions in total contributions made per character while everybody else is in the hundreds of thousands.
These people have bought all the gear that they're going to buy from the fleet stores, they cannot buy or sell the credits on the market, they cannot trade them to other characters, and they certainly don't earn interest on it. The credits just sit there useless.
Cryptic likely saw this and decided to create a sink to get some use out of the unused credits. Is it the best solution? No it isn't. Honestly I'd just as soon create some method of buying and selling credits (like converting them into bonus credit items to sell on the exchange) but they didn't ask me what I thought. :cool:
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Cryptic always performs a rectal extraction of their head after a while and they have the numbers prove them they screwed up on the pricing of developments.
I just sell stuff on the exchange for those without patience then buy stuff later. Though that has not worked out as I thought now with doffs. The change in generalizing the doffs has actually raised the overall prices because the Sec, ops, med doffs did not drop as much as the tac, eng, sci rose.
They screwed up the holding system when they made the upgrades cost so much and the provisions cost so little. A big fleet needs mroe provisions, small fleet does not. Therefore the bias is for huge fleets because they will level fast enough to b able to comfortably provide provisions while the smaller fleets can get the provisions, but no access to the higher tier things. I think this is by design though, as a means to reduce fleet numbers in support of future fleet pvp type program that I anticipate.
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I do feel that the starbase system is sucking the fun out, it takes too long to get somewhere they gated us with materials, time, and progression, and people are not pvping as much as they used too due to holdings and rep system. I get the feeling that there are a few still hording great resources, but most of us are near dry and have little to show for it.
At some point the game needs to be a game. Right now content is being added in the form of more empty boxes to fill by running established missions. Hive is nice, but they need to put a new STF out every quarter at this point just to keep things interesting. Perhaps have a foundary challenge to design the next 3 stf's and let us vote them in!
Content should make the game exciting, right now we are building this stuff up in hope the future will be better, but if there is no tangible improvement the next level isnt going to be worth the grind. Small fleets I know of have just stopped progressing, they just have fun and dont worry about resources, and their disenchantment will eventually lead them away from STO if other games offer a more jovial environment. F2P is being used everywhere now and there will need to be more incentive to make games more fun, not tedious.
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One of the reasons it costs so much, is when it is maxed out it becomes a regular source of rich dilithium mining. Not to mention the fact that dilithium farmed from this mine can be refined beyond your daily cap!!!
Elite STF's are still far superior for Dilithium. FAR FAR FAR superior and do not COST anything but time. They generate EC and Dilithium.
I can already refine a bit over the limit and anyone with multiple characters can basically refine well over the limit.
Elite STF's are still far superior for Dilithium. FAR FAR FAR superior and do not COST anything but time. They generate EC and Dilithium.
I can already refine a bit over the limit and anyone with multiple characters can basically refine well over the limit.
Assuming that you actually like to do Elite STFs and don't run into horrid PUGs. Not everyone likes to run STFs so it is not a superior method for some people.
Believe it or not, but i got a few guys in the fleet who actually enjoy that minigame, and challenge eachother each day to get the better score of the day (luck still has alot of influence it seems).
As for fleet holdings taking too long ... well ... it is something that is added to the game for people who like that.... if u hate it ... dont go there ...
I used to hate the ground stf's for over a year i have never even been able to complete the first parts of cure & infected , that is ... untill i got taken along with a group that had experience, and now i quite enjoy doing them, things change, not every thing added to the game is required to be like by 100% of the players.
Same goes for the players who have every single point they could set in space skills & gear, and the only time they even see their captain is when it is walking around a trade ship, or changing their ship, because u need to visit a shipyard for that.
What cryptic will try to do is create things that are hopefully enjoyed by the majority of the players,
As for fleet holdings taking too long ... well ... it is something that is added to the game for people who like that.... if u hate it ... dont go there ...
Well do you actually know what is the Mining Daily? or are you assuming as well?
Since I can end such assumptions, I will ...
There are 3 dailys, ALL using that GOD AWFUL minigame, since I rather claw my eyes out that play that ... "thing", its 40 D at 0 points (I am not playing it), 5 nodes means 400 for 2 of then, the 3rd payed 96 at 0 with only 1 node meaning its 496 total.
Thats the minimum pay, thats not much now isnt? I can get far more then that without passing how many loading screens now? I counted at least 2 because apparently PUTTING OUT SHIP IN ORBIT is the highlight of the transwarp there from the Starbase instead of DIRECTLY TO THE GROUND MAP! but I am getting off the mark so ... I get more then that with a Ground Fleet Action, like Big Dig or KAGE.
Now if you are going to throw the whole "but you get more if you are good at that game" I will point out I get even more if I am good at the STFs, meaning those Mining Daily are nothing but a PUNISHMENT for some players.
Yes, I am not a happy camper because of that minigame ... be thankful I did it to show a point, that is the whole argument "it pays for itself in dilithium" is absolute NONSENSE since technically "The Adventures of Pluto Nash" at one point in time will turn a profit and this is exactly the same logic applied here.
Edit:
Further clarification, there are 2 Duty Officer Assignments, one gives a extra 500 Dilithium Refining and the other gives 500 Dilithium ... this is within the expected as they arent really substantial to justify the holding overall costs.
Where did I actually say anything about the Mine Dailies? My whole post was based on the fact that STFs are not a superior source of dilithium for some people. There are people that hate the STFs 1000 times more than you hate the Dilithium minigame.
Simply because every fleet has those 2-5 guys (particularly in small fleets) who are the primary contributors to their fleet's base, they have made untold millions in total contributions made per character while everybody else is in the hundreds of thousands.
These people have bought all the gear that they're going to buy from the fleet stores, they cannot buy or sell the credits on the market, they cannot trade them to other characters, and they certainly don't earn interest on it. The credits just sit there useless.
Cryptic likely saw this and decided to create a sink to get some use out of the unused credits. Is it the best solution? No it isn't. Honestly I'd just as soon create some method of buying and selling credits (like converting them into bonus credit items to sell on the exchange) but they didn't ask me what I thought. :cool:
Pretty much this. I used to have near on 3mil in FC's and nothing to do with them. With embassy provisions and now the mine stuff I'm sitting on a pretty steady 1.6mil FCs (slowly rising again after dumping in all mining provision requirements for T1 mine).
If bigger fleets struggle with this part, good. Gives smaller fleets an advantage of some kind and larger ones some kind of restriction other than just time.
With the possibility of ally fleets happening and projects resource sharing, it'll give small and large fleets stuff they can trade/contribute the other lacks.
Where did I actually say anything about the Mine Dailies? My whole post was based on the fact that STFs are not a superior source of dilithium for some people. There are people that hate the STFs 1000 times more than you hate the Dilithium minigame.
^^^^^^
Right there .... this is a game that has variety , and it keeps increasing on that as well with each upgrade they add to the game...
It is impossible to make new things that are enjoyed by 100% of the playerbase, and the priority for the devs to add to the game is stuff that makes most ppl happy, and adds to their income as well.
That aside, i do think there are some rather weird/annoying choices made on the whole holding system..
U pay dilithium to upgrade stuff, then u pay dilithium to provision stuff, then pay dilithium again to buy the stuff from the stores.
What i would like to see is some "dilithium bank" that a fleet can have, where ppl donate dil to and gain credits ... that can be used by the fleets project managers to fill projects with (already donated & locked to the fleet for projects).
I think it is abit much to have to pay over & over again all the time, and the provisions, yes ... could use some cutback merit on that ....
Comments
Big fleets have their fleet credits spread out alot, and so this means that all would need to pitch in for these things.
Small fleets, this is a big investment ... and depending on the mix of players, either everyone has minimal stuff, but ... usually u have a fairly big stockpile of fleet-credits on a few players in the fleet ... so if u really need to hunt, go look at the fleet roster and nudge some of those guys with millions of fleet-credits to pony up some ...
As for the project discounts, my fleet currently has all upgrades on hold for the Dili-Mine .. to get the 15% discount ASAP , when that is done we are looking at a complete T4 upgrade set for the starbase, and the sci & embassy T3 upgrade ....
Project -|- Cost -|- Discount -|- Cost after Discount
Upgrade Starbase IV -|- 1,900,000.00 -|- 285,000.00 -|- 1,615,000.00
Contract for Chef on Starbase -|- 240,000.00 -|- 36,000.00 -|- 204,000.00
Station Andorian Personnel Officer -|- 216,000.00 -|- 32,400.00 -|- 183,600.00
Station Bridge Officer Trainer -|- 216,000.00 -|- 32,400.00 -|- 183,600.00
Station Tellarite Personnel Officer -|- 216,000.00 -|- 32,400.00 -|- 183,600.00
Station Vulcan Personnel Officer -|- 216,000.00 -|- 32,400.00 -|- 183,600.00
Upgrade Starbase V -|- 3,600,000.00 -|- 540,000.00 -|- 3,060,000.00
Station Counselor -|- 270,000.00 -|- 40,500.00 -|- 229,500.00
Station Duty Officer Coordinator -|- 270,000.00 -|- 40,500.00 -|- 229,500.00
Station Skill Respec Officer -|- 270,000.00 -|- 40,500.00 -|- 229,500.00
Upgrade Shipyard IV -|- 900,000.00 -|- 135,000.00 -|- 765,000.00
Upgrade Shipyard V -|- 1,800,000.00 -|- 270,000.00 -|- 1,530,000.00
Station Brig Officer -|- 270,000.00 -|- 40,500.00 -|- 229,500.00
Upgrade Industrial Fabricator IV -|- 900,000.00 -|- 135,000.00 -|- 765,000.00
Upgrade Industrial Fabricator V -|- 1,800,000.00 -|- 270,000.00 -|- 1,530,000.00
Upgrade Communications Array IV -|- 900,000.00 -|- 135,000.00 -|- 765,000.00
Upgrade Transwarp Conduit IV -|- 900,000.00 -|- 135,000.00 -|- 765,000.00
Upgrade Communications Array V -|- 1,800,000.00 -|- 270,000.00 -|- 1,530,000.00
Upgrade Transwarp Conduit V -|- 270,000.00 -|- 40,500.00 -|- 229,500.00
Upgrade Diplomatic Facilities III -|- 750,000.00 -|- 112,500.00 -|- 637,500.00
Upgrade Recruitment Facilities III -|- 750,000.00 -|- 112,500.00 -|- 637,500.00
Upgrade Embassy III -|- 2,000,000.00 -|- 300,000.00 -|- 1,700,000.00
Contact Specialty Consumable Broker -|- 120,000.00 -|- 18,000.00 -|- 102,000.00
Contact Specialty Tailor -|- 90,000.00 -|- 13,500.00 -|- 76,500.00
Totals -|- 20,664,000.00 -|- 3,099,600.00 -|- 17,564,400.00
Limited Time Projects -|- 200,000.00 -|- 30,000.00 -|- 170,000.00
Almost 3M dilithium discount from the upcomming projects my fleet still has to do, excluding all the discounts for the provisioning & vanity that are still comming.
As a sidenote, that still leaves my fleet looking at 17M in dilithium,,,,
I wish the mine came sooner than it did, but for my fleet there is still a substantial gain to be had from leveling the dilmine first .... not that it is really a big savings , but at least the smaller fleets still get quite a benefit from the discounts.
Considering what fleets have to spend to get that "savings", it's not a benefit. You're not going to break even for another full fleet holding.
Another thing that is being missed is that dilithium takes time to refine, so saving 200k dil and paying for it with EC, FC or Fleet Marks is just better.
Read the max tier benefits, or the dev blog!!!
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True there are people with lots of fleet credits to "burn" - as in they lose them without getting anything in return, but T2 is going to expand this sink into the millions of fleet credits.
Why suck so many fleet credits away from the players?
and they added some mission or ssomething that will give you provisions - but why the extra layer of annoyance - don't players have enough grinding to do already?
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According to Matthew the Dilithium Mine costs a little less than 5M.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=11299151#post11299151
So no, my fleet will not break even on the mine with the current projects, but the reason for doing the mine ASAP is not just the dili discount on other projects, but also the new items & missions, like the mining mission, and the consoles & other perks from the holding.
And then all calculations aside ....
The Holdings are meant as a build up for the long term for fleets to work on, it was never meant as cheap or quick to begin with, and provide the fleets who have made them with the perks they grant.
As for how they are doing this ... be glad each and every fleet has the chance to do this, even if it takes years because a small group wants to do it together.
There are several other MMO's out there with long term basebuilding options, but have those options limited to a certain amount for each realm/server ... meaning smaller groups can never start making them at all, because all are taken or auctioned off for incredible prices ( forsaken world has very limited amount of base locations, and the size of the guild depends on the size of the base, be glad we dont have that in STO )
You've missed the point completely. The D-Mine was repeatedly and explicitly described as the means by which Cryptic would substantially decrease the resource burden on fleets in the short term. Instead, it costs more than it can save.
So either Stahl flat out lied to his players again, or the people who ran the math have no idea what the word "reduce" means. Neither option is in any way a good thing.
Sometimes devs take the long term view. So they are not going by what currently is available, but what will be available. 2 future Fleet Holdings that have the same costs as the Embassy will make the Mine discounts balance out the Mine costs. After all, you spend over 3 million less dilithium to get to Tier 3 Dilithium Mine compared to the Embassy and there is the Mine Discounts.
I am just stunned by the colossal increase - almost 10 fold - in the amount of special provisions that go into this project - as they award nothing in return.
perhaps at 600,000 fleet credits it's not as huge shock - but T2 in in the millions of credits down the drain.
Call me old fashioned, but when someone tells me something is going to have a "significant impact" on the cost of something, I don't picture a scenario where I only start seeing an actual benefit from my investment until two years later. I picture a scenario where the cost of said something goes down by a not inconsequential amount.
Repeated statements pointed to us getting the latter. Instead, we got the former. And that was only after a near riot when the initial discount percentages were even worse than they are now.
That just it, tier 1 up-grade will cost you 600.000 fleet-credits.
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I know it sucks man, but honestly I'd rather burn 700k+ fleet credits on an upgrade than 380k+ dilithium, namely because I can put the dilithium to use in more areas of the game.
Not to mention that once you start running low on dilithium, it's a lot easier and less time consuming to replenish fleet credits than it is dilithium.
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Sure I get that - it's less painful to dump in fleet credits than dilithium - but why have this huge fleet credit sink?
I thought the process of contributing to a starbase was to earn credits to buy stuff - so why have somehing that sucks them back with no return?
And a 10x increase over embassy provisons? - dilithium at least gives you fleet credits back.
Because Cryptic wants the resource sink to be a major time gate. The longer you're grinding to meet the needs of your starbase, the more time you have to potentially buy something.
It's the exact same reason that every single addition to the game is going to be either in the starbase or in a reputation system. Instead of offering content that engages players, they're putting in content that deliberately holds players back from getting to rewards.
Simply because every fleet has those 2-5 guys (particularly in small fleets) who are the primary contributors to their fleet's base, they have made untold millions in total contributions made per character while everybody else is in the hundreds of thousands.
These people have bought all the gear that they're going to buy from the fleet stores, they cannot buy or sell the credits on the market, they cannot trade them to other characters, and they certainly don't earn interest on it. The credits just sit there useless.
Cryptic likely saw this and decided to create a sink to get some use out of the unused credits. Is it the best solution? No it isn't. Honestly I'd just as soon create some method of buying and selling credits (like converting them into bonus credit items to sell on the exchange) but they didn't ask me what I thought. :cool:
Support a KDF equivalent to the Vesta Here
Cryptic always performs a rectal extraction of their head after a while and they have the numbers prove them they screwed up on the pricing of developments.
I just sell stuff on the exchange for those without patience then buy stuff later. Though that has not worked out as I thought now with doffs. The change in generalizing the doffs has actually raised the overall prices because the Sec, ops, med doffs did not drop as much as the tac, eng, sci rose.
They screwed up the holding system when they made the upgrades cost so much and the provisions cost so little. A big fleet needs mroe provisions, small fleet does not. Therefore the bias is for huge fleets because they will level fast enough to b able to comfortably provide provisions while the smaller fleets can get the provisions, but no access to the higher tier things. I think this is by design though, as a means to reduce fleet numbers in support of future fleet pvp type program that I anticipate.
At some point the game needs to be a game. Right now content is being added in the form of more empty boxes to fill by running established missions. Hive is nice, but they need to put a new STF out every quarter at this point just to keep things interesting. Perhaps have a foundary challenge to design the next 3 stf's and let us vote them in!
Content should make the game exciting, right now we are building this stuff up in hope the future will be better, but if there is no tangible improvement the next level isnt going to be worth the grind. Small fleets I know of have just stopped progressing, they just have fun and dont worry about resources, and their disenchantment will eventually lead them away from STO if other games offer a more jovial environment. F2P is being used everywhere now and there will need to be more incentive to make games more fun, not tedious.
Elite STF's are still far superior for Dilithium. FAR FAR FAR superior and do not COST anything but time. They generate EC and Dilithium.
I can already refine a bit over the limit and anyone with multiple characters can basically refine well over the limit.
Assuming that you actually like to do Elite STFs and don't run into horrid PUGs. Not everyone likes to run STFs so it is not a superior method for some people.
As for fleet holdings taking too long ... well ... it is something that is added to the game for people who like that.... if u hate it ... dont go there ...
I used to hate the ground stf's for over a year i have never even been able to complete the first parts of cure & infected , that is ... untill i got taken along with a group that had experience, and now i quite enjoy doing them, things change, not every thing added to the game is required to be like by 100% of the players.
Same goes for the players who have every single point they could set in space skills & gear, and the only time they even see their captain is when it is walking around a trade ship, or changing their ship, because u need to visit a shipyard for that.
What cryptic will try to do is create things that are hopefully enjoyed by the majority of the players,
Ah the innocence of naivete...
It's so adorable isn't it?
Where did I actually say anything about the Mine Dailies? My whole post was based on the fact that STFs are not a superior source of dilithium for some people. There are people that hate the STFs 1000 times more than you hate the Dilithium minigame.
Pretty much this. I used to have near on 3mil in FC's and nothing to do with them. With embassy provisions and now the mine stuff I'm sitting on a pretty steady 1.6mil FCs (slowly rising again after dumping in all mining provision requirements for T1 mine).
If bigger fleets struggle with this part, good. Gives smaller fleets an advantage of some kind and larger ones some kind of restriction other than just time.
With the possibility of ally fleets happening and projects resource sharing, it'll give small and large fleets stuff they can trade/contribute the other lacks.
^^^^^^
Right there .... this is a game that has variety , and it keeps increasing on that as well with each upgrade they add to the game...
It is impossible to make new things that are enjoyed by 100% of the playerbase, and the priority for the devs to add to the game is stuff that makes most ppl happy, and adds to their income as well.
That aside, i do think there are some rather weird/annoying choices made on the whole holding system..
U pay dilithium to upgrade stuff, then u pay dilithium to provision stuff, then pay dilithium again to buy the stuff from the stores.
What i would like to see is some "dilithium bank" that a fleet can have, where ppl donate dil to and gain credits ... that can be used by the fleets project managers to fill projects with (already donated & locked to the fleet for projects).
I think it is abit much to have to pay over & over again all the time, and the provisions, yes ... could use some cutback merit on that ....
i much prefer this than dilthium for the love of baby jesus stop putting massive dilthium costs on everything