its because every important mission in this game is timed..
try to do an ISE with 5 cruisers.. you will be very close to not making optional if you even get it at all.
now 5 escorts, you will have 8 minutes left..
Did Cure with 5 Cruisers, had 11:37 left on the clock.
Did the same with 5 Eskorts, were slower. Why? AP Beta+FAW FTW
Its like an urban legend, that Cruisers are low DPS. My free lv40 Sovereign does its 9k, my Ody easily comes over 10k, both flown by Engineers. And I have more ppl in my fleet with those kinds of DPS and nontactician-cruisers.
I think most people dont know the power of AP Beta in PvE, it outclasses Omega (for PvP, its the other way around). And with 5+ Betas on CE, even it will melt like a snowflake.
your main purpose as cruiser in PvP is to take the hits for as long as possible from as many people as possible to allow your team-mates some breathing room. if three guys have to chase you down to make sure you die, then your accomplishing your goal.
Except that it takes 5 guys to kill an escort and only 3 to kill a cruiser. Escorts flown by amateurs are not OP, but flown by a decent PvPer they are. Experts will have 100% uptime on Attack Pattern Omega. That gives defense so high most shots miss and do not need to be tanked, also give immunity to holds. SNB is the ONLY way to kill these guys, but a solo ship usually still cannot do it in time unless it is an escort. An expert will keep an escape ability saved up for any time he is SNB'd and be out of range almost instantly.
Except that it takes 5 guys to kill an escort and only 3 to kill a cruiser. Escorts flown by amateurs are not OP, but flown by a decent PvPer they are. Experts will have 100% uptime on Attack Pattern Omega. That gives defense so high most shots miss and do not need to be tanked, also give immunity to holds. SNB is the ONLY way to kill these guys, but a solo ship usually still cannot do it in time unless it is an escort. An expert will keep an escape ability saved up for any time he is SNB'd and be out of range almost instantly.
Uh, no, it doesn't. It takes: One SNB to clear buffs/resists. One Tractor beam to stop the ship dead so it can't run, and then one escort to kill the target. Guess what? That can actually all be from the SAME ship. Only if the target escort was cagey and kept defenses in reserve do you need another ship - mostly so you can get another Sub-nuke on the target. If the attackers didn't keep things like evasive in reserve to keep up with the target escort when it runs, then... yeah, that's a tactical problem, not a balance one.
That's an aside, however - the main reason I posted was to clarify that there is no such thing as 100% uptime on Omega. You can get 50% uptime, which is pretty awesome, but 100% uptime is not possible, even with multiple copies and stacking CD reduction powers.
That's an aside, however - the main reason I posted was to clarify that there is no such thing as 100% uptime on Omega. You can get 50% uptime, which is pretty awesome, but 100% uptime is not possible, even with multiple copies and stacking CD reduction powers.
In a typical minute how many seconds will elapse without APO active with 2 copies and cooldown Doffs?
APO has a cooldown of 60s, global cooldown of 30s and uptime of 15s. With two copies, this gives you 50% uptime. Cooldown doffs will be ineffective as they do not allow the cooldown of APO to go below global. In other words, if you have 2 copies already, you will not benefit from cooldown reduction.
Did Cure with 5 Cruisers, had 11:37 left on the clock.
Did the same with 5 Eskorts, were slower. Why? AP Beta+FAW FTW
Its like an urban legend, that Cruisers are low DPS. My free lv40 Sovereign does its 9k, my Ody easily comes over 10k, both flown by Engineers. And I have more ppl in my fleet with those kinds of DPS and nontactician-cruisers.
I think most people dont know the power of AP Beta in PvE, it outclasses Omega (for PvP, its the other way around). And with 5+ Betas on CE, even it will melt like a snowflake.
well, faw spam is not a solution really. esp in PVP. but in PVE there are instances, where you are not going to be good with them. gorn minefield? sb24? tough luck getting first place against a tac with crf with your faw spam, even if you are quite good at it.
also, in the same instance escorts can deal pretty much double your above figures, with tacs ath the wheel, ofc
^Actually you can have a 80% uptime for Omega, Delta, and Beta with 5 x 15% reduction, that is 75% DOFF reduction in those three abilities together. You could easily keep this these skills rotating with doubles. It would be ungodly expensive, but very possible. What is more dangerous is if you do only 3 Attack pattern time reducers and 2 tactical team reducers for the 85% bonus, along with the Romulan shield set...man that is overkill.
I beg your pardon!? You can only have a maximum of 3 attack pattern reduction doffs equipped. Also, Tactical Team reducers only affect Tac Team, and nothing else. They have no effect on Attack Patterns. Also, you cannot go below global cooldown, so the point is moot. (15s for APB/APD, 30s for APO)
Aux2Bat and Tech Doffs? and Polarize hull for small gaps in APO. You can have 100% immunity to movement debuffs. It is done all the time.
So, yeah, 30 second GLOBAL cool down, A2B builds don't let you reduce below that. The maximum possible uptime on Omega is 50%. That's just a fact. If you think you can prove otherwise, the easiest way will be for you to take a short fraps video of yourself using the build, and getting below the 30 second global timer.
And, again, if the escort has two "get out of jail free" cards, that's what Subnuke is for. You can always watch for the Omega buff to fall off, knowing you have a 30 second window - throw a tractor beam out there, and when the target uses polarize, then you subnuke, evasive to catch up, get within 5k so the tractor holds again, and unload. Or, you know, have two ships - one nukes off the Omega, the other nukes off the polarize. Either way, you still don't need 5 ships.
Aux2Bat and Tech Doffs? and Polarize hull for small gaps in APO. You can have 100% immunity to movement debuffs. It is done all the time.
Incorrect. 100% immunity to tractors? I can see that. But polarize doesn't help against grav wells (not very good, though) and eject warp plasma. That's where those two come in. Not to mention subnuke smashes that perfectly setup cycle.
Also, ATB with Tech doffs still doesn't let you break global cooldown. Nothing in the game does. Not to mention no supermaneuverable escort besides the Steamer and the bugship are capable of ATB anyways. Plus AtB knocks a gigantic hole in your healing.
Anyways, we can argue till the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is that escorts have counters, but counter-counters exist, and counter-counter-counters exist. It is simply a matter of who has what debuff/buff.
Yes. I destroyed all your arguments with that one, for it makes them all invalid.
You know that subnuke only strips the buffs you have on right? You can still just run away, not like they will catch you and start the process again.
Subnuke, as he pointed out, has a 2min cooldown. It is one of, if not the hardest skill to use correctly in the game. You have to time it perfectly, otherwise it does almost nothing.
Whats the matter, did some big mean sci subnuke RSP and all tac buffs of your escort and now your all mad?
Oh and I pvp primarily in escorts/Bops as a tac, and even I think your so very wrong. Or a troll, in which case Bravo sir! You managed to get a response.
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Play Gorn Minefield a Escort will get 1st place assuming the person knows what he is doing.
Their is no mission that is designed for Cruisers or Sci ships to get 1st place like their is for Escorts except for Cyrstalline Catastrophe mission. Just that 1 mission for them compared to multiples for Escorts.
The speed at which Escorts can kill stuff is just to high in comparison to other ship types. Yes a Escort is built for destroying things but the difference for it compared to other type of ships is just to high.
I just started a new FED engineer and at level 12 I got 1st place twice in a row on Starbase 24 (in a Lt. Com cruiser)
The thread was about why do people think escorts are OP. Of course a well coordinated PvP team with multiple SNBs can counter and kill an escort, but that does not answer the question of the thread. I am answering the thread question which is more about players' experiences that make them believe escorts are OP (which even top PvPers agree that escorts are too defensive). Outlining how a premade team handles an escort is irrelevant to the thread title or discussion. If you don't want to argue then why are you? Escorts DO stack abilities and DO maintain immunity to movement debuffs all the time. Some players are engineers or tacs and have no SNB. SNB does not help get 1st place in fleet actions or help in STFs unless an NPC uses EPtS or EPtE like probes now.
I am a science captain myself and know quite well how to use SNB, but I am most powerful individually, in almost every situation the game has except premade PvP, in an escort.
Which ship would you say is more powerful than escorts in STFs, Fleet actions, and casual PvP? Cruisers, science vessels, carriers, or shuttles?
1st off, let me remind every1 that we talking pvp here. Imo, escorts don't really op other classes in pvp. Whoever died by an escort in a few seconds while flying a cruiser/sci... is basically a noob pvp. Also, you only compare between same version such as between fleet escort and fleet cruiser... but not the fleet and c-store or free version.
2nd, It's true that escorts r the preferable choice in eSTFs nowadays. It's because the devs lower the damage output of the borg. Escorts blew up easily in the old eSTFs. You had to use hit and run tactics with escorts. If you stood still and fought a cube or 2 spheres... you would die. Dying in eSTF mean injures and losing time in respwn.
Anyway, we aren't talking about PVE but PvP. From what I've seen on the forum, ppl keep posting about how an escort can shred a cruiser in seconds... and I find that ridiculous. One of the reasons that a cruisers loses to an escort is the wrong setup. A pve escort setup can be used in pvp... but not cruiser. A cruiser pve setup can never beat an escort in pvp.
Like any other mmo. Dps class is the easiest to pvp. Any other classes require skillful players.
The thread was about why do people think escorts are OP. Of course a well coordinated PvP team with multiple SNBs can counter and kill an escort, but that does not answer the question of the thread. I am answering the thread question which is more about players' experiences that make them believe escorts are OP (which even top PvPers agree that escorts are too defensive). Outlining how a premade team handles an escort is irrelevant to the thread title or discussion. If you don't want to argue then why are you? Escorts DO stack abilities and DO maintain immunity to movement debuffs all the time. Some players are engineers or tacs and have no SNB. SNB does not help get 1st place in fleet actions or help in STFs unless an NPC uses EPtS or EPtE like probes now.
I am a science captain myself and know quite well how to use SNB, but I am most powerful individually, in almost every situation the game has except premade PvP, in an escort.
Which ship would you say is more powerful than escorts in STFs, Fleet actions, and casual PvP? Cruisers, science vessels, carriers, or shuttles?
The point was made that science was pretty useless(strataguard). Which it is not. I'm not going to argue that escorts rule PvE except for no-win and possibly Hive Elite. However, PvP, whether casual or not, is up for grabs. 1v1, a good Sci vessel can neuter a good escort and kill it. In PvP as a group, casual, premade, or otherwise, my contention is that the escort is not OP, as a good sci can neutralise it. My PvP experience is mostly casual, and I've seen nothing that changes my point of view.
Escorts are not necessarily OP in PvP. However, they do require somewhat less skill to be competent in, which is why they may appear OP at first. However, a Sci of a similar competence level has the potential to wipe the floor with those escorts.
Your first post mentioned that Experts could have 100% uptime on APO. Which was incorrect. Then you said they could have 100% immunity to movement debuffs. Which was also wrong.
We simply wanted to correct this misconception you had.
If you want my opinion, it's this. Escorts rule PvE. But science, either in sci vessels or carriers, is the king of the PvP arena.
The point was made that science was pretty useless(strataguard). Which it is not. I'm not going to argue that escorts rule PvE except for no-win and possibly Hive Elite. However, PvP, whether casual or not, is up for grabs. 1v1, a good Sci vessel can neuter a good escort and kill it. In PvP as a group, casual, premade, or otherwise, my contention is that the escort is not OP, as a good sci can neutralise it. My PvP experience is mostly casual, and I've seen nothing that changes my point of view.
Escorts are not necessarily OP in PvP. However, they do require somewhat less skill to be competent in, which is why they may appear OP at first. However, a Sci of a similar competence level has the potential to wipe the floor with those escorts.
Your first post mentioned that Experts could have 100% uptime on APO. Which was incorrect. Then you said they could have 100% immunity to movement debuffs. Which was also wrong.
We simply wanted to correct this misconception you had.
If you want my opinion, it's this. Escorts rule PvE. But science, either in sci vessels or carriers, is the king of the PvP arena.
I never said "useless", I was just contending that escorts can do all a science can generally do, but with more hull, faster ships, and of course higher dps.
Overall, I'm happy with my Recluse/orbweaver, and as I said do rather well in pvps. Granted, I went the torp ship path so I could focus almost entirely on Aux, Engines, and Shield, and this has served me well, letting me focus my healing on myself and actually be able to tank the spike damage of doom from escorts. In the orbweaver mind you. In the Recluse, I prefer tractor mines, the new Tholian mine, and Polarized tetryon beams for the 10% proc to help try and counter tac team so my fighters can get some hits in.
However, that wasn't what was asked, and so on page three, I wrote what I thought was a general summary of the situation, which basically concluded that escorts negated, or could negate, pretty much anything science could bring to the table.
This included holds, heals (ignoring the rommy console bug which I'm hoping is fixed) thanks in large part to the Plasmonic leech console and warp cores now (but also in part to the targeting bug that seems tied to target able skills going for mines, Rommy torps, and fighters/frigates), damage, and of course defense due to being the fastest ships.
So far, no one has really disagreed that science can do anything other then TRIBBLE up their cooldowns every two minutes, and hope that the enemy ship doesn't A. cloak (rarity, to be sure, as the T5 Rommy has a decent cool down, but makes a wonderful "OH S-" button) and flee. B. Have a copy of APO/Polarize hull ready for use to shrug off any control, flee, and then spike damage again. C. Have an EPTS/Tac team ready, survive the hit, flee, and then spike damage again.
And I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to flee, and do hit and runs, but that they move the fastest hands down, have shields pretty much on par with a cruiser (more so when you factor in movement, and the misses that occur), more hull then a science ship, do the most damage, and can heal pretty damn well to boot...
It's hard to say they're not overall self-sufficient, needing the rare pick-me-up every 2-3 minutes when a science ship can turn off it's APO (or polarize hull), if they can manage to immediately fly off, lick their wounds, and then be right as rain.
Which is why I asked in a previous post what role that really left science? Occasional healer, and SBN. SBN every 2 minutes, and sometimes (though rarely) healing another, though mostly itself as they make soft targets compared to the evasive, higher hull, more maneuverable, healing, escorts.
Can they be killed? Of course, if they pop pretty much all their protection against control all at the same time, blow their healing, and hold still, which happens pretty much never. The alternative is requiring at least 2-3 ships dedicated to killing what should be a glass cannon, hence the speed, damage, and maneuvering.
Overall, I think my arguments were better on page 3, granted I was pretty tired (and still am), so I may have to reread that long post of doom...
Anyway, the escort seems to be able to wear everyone's hat, and it's own, way better then it ever should.
My problem is that my ability to get and maintain all npc's to focus attack me, is not rewarded. In fact by doing this, and taking a spot from an escort, I extend the time it takes for the STF to be done.
By playing a cruiser, I'm effectively punishing the escorts in my team!
Is the above a cruiser captain's version of the Stockholm Syndrome ?
Feeling 'captive' by the Escorts ? Starting to identify with them and their "supreme" role/place in the STO universe ?
i been flying a cruiser for 3 years and yes i even fly an escort and yes escorts are op not just from there alpha but there overall dps is much higher then any other ship type i mean come on it's comon since cruisers get 3 tac counsol slots for standerd and fleet sci gets 2 while escort gets 4 and 5 oh shure you could arue that they get more or less some where else but does absolutly nothing to improve other ships dps over an escort and plus the majoridy of slots aside from tac have to be fit with counsol's that boost shield hp and power transfer wich takes away from any armor you could be using unless you want to be doing hardly any dps at all so yes i can safely say above all you dedicated escort pilots that yes escort's are op should they be nerfed no of couse not but should other ships be buffed dps wise of course they should no im not saying make them do as much dps as an escort but the gap shouldn't be as high as it is by the way my damage in my cruiser is 9k most escorts are 14k+ thats a pretty big gap
I just started a new FED engineer and at level 12 I got 1st place twice in a row on Starbase 24 (in a Lt. Com cruiser)
Lower tier ships are more balanced. It is at higher tiers that Escorts become OP compared to other ships. Also more people at lower levels that don't know how to do good damage so that also makes it easier. When I created some new characters in the past I could get 1st with any ship type constantly. Once I get into end game levels things are not nearly as easy.
I am in a cruiser, with 10K shield and nearly 40% resistances in all categories. (Not including my buffs that activate after) A Romulan Bird of Prey in PVP uncloaked and destroyed me in 1.5 seconds. IN order for that to happen his DPS needs to be almost 40K in that one second. I could not event react to click one of my abilities.
In many PVP Kerrat zones, some escorts can take damage like a tank. I don't know who they were but they had 6 ships on them, locking multiple tractors on it, and he/she was tanking damage like a TANK. It took 6 ships to destroy him while he/she could do some major DPS.
Escorts should NOT be able to do this. They are NOT tanks. Cryptic doesn't know how to balance or program anything that well.
Thank you, I am so glad I found similar feedback! I just noticed this and it is soooooo annoying.
Escorts being able to do all of the above is a major flaw in this game...
PS: Anyone who says otherwise hasn't experienced the frustration in Ker'rat PvPvE zone.
Thank you, I am so glad I found similar feedback! I just noticed this and it is soooooo annoying.
Escorts being able to do all of the above is a major flaw in this game...
PS: Anyone who says otherwise hasn't experienced the frustration in Ker'rat PvPvE zone.
pvp is broken.. in order for a player to pve a million HP tac cube.. they are going to mow down another player in a few seconds..
there is no balance to this game..
they need to set up some kind of limit players can damage other players..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Comments
Did Cure with 5 Cruisers, had 11:37 left on the clock.
Did the same with 5 Eskorts, were slower. Why? AP Beta+FAW FTW
Its like an urban legend, that Cruisers are low DPS. My free lv40 Sovereign does its 9k, my Ody easily comes over 10k, both flown by Engineers. And I have more ppl in my fleet with those kinds of DPS and nontactician-cruisers.
I think most people dont know the power of AP Beta in PvE, it outclasses Omega (for PvP, its the other way around). And with 5+ Betas on CE, even it will melt like a snowflake.
Except that it takes 5 guys to kill an escort and only 3 to kill a cruiser. Escorts flown by amateurs are not OP, but flown by a decent PvPer they are. Experts will have 100% uptime on Attack Pattern Omega. That gives defense so high most shots miss and do not need to be tanked, also give immunity to holds. SNB is the ONLY way to kill these guys, but a solo ship usually still cannot do it in time unless it is an escort. An expert will keep an escape ability saved up for any time he is SNB'd and be out of range almost instantly.
Uh, no, it doesn't. It takes: One SNB to clear buffs/resists. One Tractor beam to stop the ship dead so it can't run, and then one escort to kill the target. Guess what? That can actually all be from the SAME ship. Only if the target escort was cagey and kept defenses in reserve do you need another ship - mostly so you can get another Sub-nuke on the target. If the attackers didn't keep things like evasive in reserve to keep up with the target escort when it runs, then... yeah, that's a tactical problem, not a balance one.
That's an aside, however - the main reason I posted was to clarify that there is no such thing as 100% uptime on Omega. You can get 50% uptime, which is pretty awesome, but 100% uptime is not possible, even with multiple copies and stacking CD reduction powers.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6398951&postcount=66
In a typical minute how many seconds will elapse without APO active with 2 copies and cooldown Doffs or Aux2Batt with Technician Doffs?
APO has a cooldown of 60s, global cooldown of 30s and uptime of 15s. With two copies, this gives you 50% uptime. Cooldown doffs will be ineffective as they do not allow the cooldown of APO to go below global. In other words, if you have 2 copies already, you will not benefit from cooldown reduction.
well, faw spam is not a solution really. esp in PVP. but in PVE there are instances, where you are not going to be good with them. gorn minefield? sb24? tough luck getting first place against a tac with crf with your faw spam, even if you are quite good at it.
also, in the same instance escorts can deal pretty much double your above figures, with tacs ath the wheel, ofc
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
I beg your pardon!? You can only have a maximum of 3 attack pattern reduction doffs equipped. Also, Tactical Team reducers only affect Tac Team, and nothing else. They have no effect on Attack Patterns. Also, you cannot go below global cooldown, so the point is moot. (15s for APB/APD, 30s for APO)
Aux2Bat and Tech Doffs? and Polarize hull for small gaps in APO. You can have 100% immunity to movement debuffs. It is done all the time.
So, yeah, 30 second GLOBAL cool down, A2B builds don't let you reduce below that. The maximum possible uptime on Omega is 50%. That's just a fact. If you think you can prove otherwise, the easiest way will be for you to take a short fraps video of yourself using the build, and getting below the 30 second global timer.
And, again, if the escort has two "get out of jail free" cards, that's what Subnuke is for. You can always watch for the Omega buff to fall off, knowing you have a 30 second window - throw a tractor beam out there, and when the target uses polarize, then you subnuke, evasive to catch up, get within 5k so the tractor holds again, and unload. Or, you know, have two ships - one nukes off the Omega, the other nukes off the polarize. Either way, you still don't need 5 ships.
Incorrect. 100% immunity to tractors? I can see that. But polarize doesn't help against grav wells (not very good, though) and eject warp plasma. That's where those two come in. Not to mention subnuke smashes that perfectly setup cycle.
Also, ATB with Tech doffs still doesn't let you break global cooldown. Nothing in the game does. Not to mention no supermaneuverable escort besides the Steamer and the bugship are capable of ATB anyways. Plus AtB knocks a gigantic hole in your healing.
Anyways, we can argue till the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is that escorts have counters, but counter-counters exist, and counter-counter-counters exist. It is simply a matter of who has what debuff/buff.
You know that subnuke only strips the buffs you have on right? You can still just run away, not like they will catch you and start the process again.
Subnuke, as he pointed out, has a 2min cooldown. It is one of, if not the hardest skill to use correctly in the game. You have to time it perfectly, otherwise it does almost nothing.
Whats the matter, did some big mean sci subnuke RSP and all tac buffs of your escort and now your all mad?
Oh and I pvp primarily in escorts/Bops as a tac, and even I think your so very wrong. Or a troll, in which case Bravo sir! You managed to get a response.
Escorts are very OP
And everyone knows it
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I just started a new FED engineer and at level 12 I got 1st place twice in a row on Starbase 24 (in a Lt. Com cruiser)
I am a science captain myself and know quite well how to use SNB, but I am most powerful individually, in almost every situation the game has except premade PvP, in an escort.
Which ship would you say is more powerful than escorts in STFs, Fleet actions, and casual PvP? Cruisers, science vessels, carriers, or shuttles?
2nd, It's true that escorts r the preferable choice in eSTFs nowadays. It's because the devs lower the damage output of the borg. Escorts blew up easily in the old eSTFs. You had to use hit and run tactics with escorts. If you stood still and fought a cube or 2 spheres... you would die. Dying in eSTF mean injures and losing time in respwn.
Anyway, we aren't talking about PVE but PvP. From what I've seen on the forum, ppl keep posting about how an escort can shred a cruiser in seconds... and I find that ridiculous. One of the reasons that a cruisers loses to an escort is the wrong setup. A pve escort setup can be used in pvp... but not cruiser. A cruiser pve setup can never beat an escort in pvp.
Like any other mmo. Dps class is the easiest to pvp. Any other classes require skillful players.
The point was made that science was pretty useless(strataguard). Which it is not. I'm not going to argue that escorts rule PvE except for no-win and possibly Hive Elite. However, PvP, whether casual or not, is up for grabs. 1v1, a good Sci vessel can neuter a good escort and kill it. In PvP as a group, casual, premade, or otherwise, my contention is that the escort is not OP, as a good sci can neutralise it. My PvP experience is mostly casual, and I've seen nothing that changes my point of view.
Escorts are not necessarily OP in PvP. However, they do require somewhat less skill to be competent in, which is why they may appear OP at first. However, a Sci of a similar competence level has the potential to wipe the floor with those escorts.
Your first post mentioned that Experts could have 100% uptime on APO. Which was incorrect. Then you said they could have 100% immunity to movement debuffs. Which was also wrong.
We simply wanted to correct this misconception you had.
If you want my opinion, it's this. Escorts rule PvE. But science, either in sci vessels or carriers, is the king of the PvP arena.
You may want to post in the PvP section then. This is General Discussion and most PvPers rarely look here.
Someone used a Combat Parser (DPS Meter / counter) in a recent STF .
His total DPS was ... over 3 times that of the average players (13000 VS 3500) .
Note that some of those "average players" had Purple Mk 12 weaponry and weapon consoles .
THAT IS WHY PPL THINK ESCORTS ARE OVERPOWERED .
But I'm sure that it's just the matter of time until the "you were doing it wrong" crowd pitches in ... .
I never said "useless", I was just contending that escorts can do all a science can generally do, but with more hull, faster ships, and of course higher dps.
Overall, I'm happy with my Recluse/orbweaver, and as I said do rather well in pvps. Granted, I went the torp ship path so I could focus almost entirely on Aux, Engines, and Shield, and this has served me well, letting me focus my healing on myself and actually be able to tank the spike damage of doom from escorts. In the orbweaver mind you. In the Recluse, I prefer tractor mines, the new Tholian mine, and Polarized tetryon beams for the 10% proc to help try and counter tac team so my fighters can get some hits in.
However, that wasn't what was asked, and so on page three, I wrote what I thought was a general summary of the situation, which basically concluded that escorts negated, or could negate, pretty much anything science could bring to the table.
This included holds, heals (ignoring the rommy console bug which I'm hoping is fixed) thanks in large part to the Plasmonic leech console and warp cores now (but also in part to the targeting bug that seems tied to target able skills going for mines, Rommy torps, and fighters/frigates), damage, and of course defense due to being the fastest ships.
So far, no one has really disagreed that science can do anything other then TRIBBLE up their cooldowns every two minutes, and hope that the enemy ship doesn't A. cloak (rarity, to be sure, as the T5 Rommy has a decent cool down, but makes a wonderful "OH S-" button) and flee. B. Have a copy of APO/Polarize hull ready for use to shrug off any control, flee, and then spike damage again. C. Have an EPTS/Tac team ready, survive the hit, flee, and then spike damage again.
And I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to flee, and do hit and runs, but that they move the fastest hands down, have shields pretty much on par with a cruiser (more so when you factor in movement, and the misses that occur), more hull then a science ship, do the most damage, and can heal pretty damn well to boot...
It's hard to say they're not overall self-sufficient, needing the rare pick-me-up every 2-3 minutes when a science ship can turn off it's APO (or polarize hull), if they can manage to immediately fly off, lick their wounds, and then be right as rain.
Which is why I asked in a previous post what role that really left science? Occasional healer, and SBN. SBN every 2 minutes, and sometimes (though rarely) healing another, though mostly itself as they make soft targets compared to the evasive, higher hull, more maneuverable, healing, escorts.
Can they be killed? Of course, if they pop pretty much all their protection against control all at the same time, blow their healing, and hold still, which happens pretty much never. The alternative is requiring at least 2-3 ships dedicated to killing what should be a glass cannon, hence the speed, damage, and maneuvering.
Overall, I think my arguments were better on page 3, granted I was pretty tired (and still am), so I may have to reread that long post of doom...
Anyway, the escort seems to be able to wear everyone's hat, and it's own, way better then it ever should.
Is the above a cruiser captain's version of the Stockholm Syndrome ?
Feeling 'captive' by the Escorts ? Starting to identify with them and their "supreme" role/place in the STO universe ?
Lower tier ships are more balanced. It is at higher tiers that Escorts become OP compared to other ships. Also more people at lower levels that don't know how to do good damage so that also makes it easier. When I created some new characters in the past I could get 1st with any ship type constantly. Once I get into end game levels things are not nearly as easy.
I have yet to meet a escort that can destroy me with an alpha strike in a carrier. And my cruiser is only slightly weaker.
- Lewis Burwell "chesty" Puller
How Romulans Should Choose What Faction They Are In
Thank you, I am so glad I found similar feedback! I just noticed this and it is soooooo annoying.
Escorts being able to do all of the above is a major flaw in this game...
PS: Anyone who says otherwise hasn't experienced the frustration in Ker'rat PvPvE zone.
pvp is broken.. in order for a player to pve a million HP tac cube.. they are going to mow down another player in a few seconds..
there is no balance to this game..
they need to set up some kind of limit players can damage other players..
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
True... but when you can kill your enemy in <4 seconds, the fragility doesn't really come in to effect.