Making them usable everywhere would be kinda gamebreaking. Like... passing by some group of Borg over the air in Cure Ground and just kill them after the optional has been fulfilled.
However, some old Maps would be really nice to explore by Jetpack
- New Romulus: Very beautiful designed, but needs a lot of bugfixing (like the bug where you can walk in sky).
- Bajor
- Andorria
- Vulcan
- Starfleet Academy
- Nimbus III
You have found the solution !
Only in this maps, ok, on New Romulus ... Run run on Nimubs III => End, fly and like the world !
With an attitude like that I would go out of my way to annoy you if you were the customer services I had to deal with.
BAD FORM!
Sorry if thats too blunt, but the world is full of idiots, in every walk of life.
if you have not noticed them then i congratulate you on making it this far in your life but they are there and im not going to pretend they are not just to spare some feelings.
no the customer is not always right. this was a saying originated in a shop to make sure individual customers felt taken care of. like 'my food is cold', or 'my new clothes are the wrong size'. they would accommodate them. not, 'i dont like the way your shop is laid out. please change it now.'
it has since been overblown and overused to the point where people now believe it is to be used in every situation, no matter how outrageous. whole aspects of the game should change because some people think it should?
it has no relevance in an MMO where everyone opinion is different, usually totally subjective and more often than not are in total conflict with other peoples.
--I firmly do not believe that any concession should be made in regards to making these things available outside the event. I already think the idea is really too much for the game as it is. Even if it's just including them in social zones... I would rather not see a bunch of Starfleet/Klingon officers jetting around. I know there's a lot of things that are immersion-breaking, but really, let's not add to that list by letting these jet packs go anywhere else.
--The whole Risa event is a little disappointing for me, on a side note. These devices are simply not making it any better.
Since the height aspect of the floater is the problem that Cryptic's Devs are having issues with on existing maps...
Why not disable height on the floaters?
The floaters would essentially levitate the player a few centimeters above the ground, and allow them to travel really fast above the ground, but they can't go zipping all up and down maps. It would be like a pair of Frosted Boots, but your feet never touch the ground.
(Note: This would only be in place in areas outside of Risa. On Risa, height would work like normal.)
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
One thing i hate about TOR is the fact lazy players can't get off their mounts to walk around the station, or their exchange (pretty much real life) so don't want to see people floating around ESD, which is too small anyway, in anything other than Star Fleet regulated boots.
I'm fine with not being able to use them everywhere, but it's still kind of a waste of a neat mechanic to only be used on Risa. Instead I'd like to see maybe a few future zones made with them in mind. Similar to EV suits I would say. The EV suits are cool and gave us a new mechanic but not every map needs to support full EV suit usage. Same deal with the jetpacks. Make a handful of zones that we can use or need to use them on.
As far as how Cryptic can monetize this (because let's be honest, that's important in a F2P model) do it exactly the same as EV suits. They could make a couple of premium jetpacks (with new models of course) to be sold in the C-store, some for the Lobi store, and then give out a free rental/loaner (probably on par with the rental on Risa) for new players/characters to use if they missed the Risa event.
This would let us use the cool new jetpacks that we got, let Cryptic make some cash, and this way poor Taco doesn't have to suffer going back and redoing every single map to be jetpack friendly. I'd be good with that.
Sorry if thats too blunt, but the world is full of idiots, in every walk of life.
if you have not noticed them then i congratulate you on making it this far in your life but they are there and im not going to pretend they are not just to spare some feelings.
no the customer is not always right. this was a saying originated in a shop to make sure individual customers felt taken care of. like 'my food is cold', or 'my new clothes are the wrong size'. they would accommodate them. not, 'i dont like the way your shop is laid out. please change it now.'
it has since been overblown and overused to the point where people now believe it is to be used in every situation, no matter how outrageous. whole aspects of the game should change because some people think it should?
it has no relevance in an MMO where everyone opinion is different, usually totally subjective and more often than not are in total conflict with other peoples.
Ohhhhhhh-Kaaayyyyy...
Do you actually think you are educating me here or something??
My original comment (about the customer always being right) was very 'tongue in cheek' to make light of a Dev openly claiming they can't be bothered and don't want to do their job (the green smiley should have been a hint towards my sarcasm). HOWEVER - the devs should be listening to their customers regarding feedback and wishes and not just passing it off because they don't like it personally or can't be arsed.
People are not idiots (as you seem to think) and if you honestly believe they are then you should perhaps take a look in the mirror and wonder if these same people think the same about you - Just sayin like....
OBVIOUSLY there are plenty of morons in the world but there are also PLENTY of wonderfully brilliant people in the world too, yet for some reason you seem to think everyone (except your brilliantly good self of course) is an idiot... what a way to see the world.
Glad I am nowhere near as pessimistic as your awesomely perfect self.... lad
I bow down before you 'oh great one' and bet for your permission to proceed with my presents on this forum....
JOG ON
BACK TO TOPIC LIKE:
Would definitely be nice to have the jetpacks/floaters available on some other selected zones but would also be nice if you could customise them a bit too - with say, fleet logo and colours.
Rental to friends and/or giving a lift to a buddy may be a little bit too far like, but would still be quality if done
How about this: let us designate maps in Foundry missions on which the floaters can be used.
This keeps them out of the greater game world for those who have a problem with that, but allows for fun, inventive things like jetpack racing and who knows what else.
I remember way back when the frost boots came out I made a similar thread, back then it was "impossible" for the boots to be permanent, yet low and behold they are now permanent? Only STO/PWE make impossibilities a reality :P
I wonder what 'lies' we will get this time as to why we can't use these jet packs should be an enjoyable read.
as for the petition +1, although by now you guys and gals should know that petitions do nothing in the STO world.
They never said it was impossible, they said they didn't want to.
There's a HUGE difference here, because maps weren't designed or built with flight in mind so they're not solid and there will be loads of issues with geometry if they allow it.
Anyone who's used the bug to get outside ESD knows this, it's easy to get on top of ESD and then fall through the ceiling back inside. The roofs aren't solid, and I'd imagine that's a common theme on lots of maps. I don't think they really want us flying around outside ESD and looking at all the developer junk and getting stuck inside all of the mess. It's not going to happen, sorry guys.
Maybe for future map, but they're not going to retrofit old maps - because it's so much work and really there are better things they can be spending those thousands of man hours on.
Do you actually think you are educating me here or something??
My original comment (about the customer always being right) was very 'tongue in cheek' to make light of a Dev openly claiming they can't be bothered and don't want to do their job (the green smiley should have been a hint towards my sarcasm). HOWEVER - the devs should be listening to their customers regarding feedback and wishes and not just passing it off because they don't like it personally or can't be arsed.
"People" are not idiots (as you seem to think) and if you honestly believe they are then you should perhaps take a look in the mirror and wonder if these same people think the same about you - Just sayin like....
OBVIOUSLY there are plenty of morons in the world but there are also PLENTY of wonderfully brilliant people in the world too, yet for some reason you seem to think everyone (except your brilliantly good self of course) is an idiot... what a way to see the world.
Glad I am nowhere near as pessimistic as your awesomely perfect self.... lad
I bow down before you 'oh great one' and bet for your permission to proceed with my presents on this forum....
JOG ON
Did i say everyone was an idiot? did i say i was a genius? im sure loads of people think im an idiot. good for them. when i say the world is full of idiots i dont actually mean everyone. i would have thought that would have been fairly obvious what i meant to anyone reading it? Perhaps I just assumed too much and you wouldn't take my words far too literally? what's the difference between 'full of idiots' and in your own words 'plenty of morons'? or are you just arguing semantics?
and there is a difference between not changing huge aspects of every map to accommodate something not everyone wants, could break missions and would require a huge amount of time to fix things for little reward with being too lazy and cant be asked to do it, as you seem to think.
its their job to work on the game, it does not actually matter which aspect they work on. putting their feet up and doing nothing is being lazy. working on other aspects over this is not being lazy. there is a huge difference in the two. i would have thought that would be pretty obvious too.
you basically tell them that its tough luck they dont want to change it despite numerous reasons why they might not want to, and that they basically should do it anyway, so forgive me if your tongue in cheek did not exactly shine through.
This is all a very interesting discussion. Lots of different opinions. Anyway, the following is not PR talk; I'm not usually one of those who defend Cryptic in these forums. Actually, I'm one of the self-entitled lifetimers. :P
As a basis for comparison, in how many places are we allowed to use the EV suit reaction thrusters? That ability is already very limited, even when it's for floating only 1-2 feet above ground and using pre-established waypoints...Imagine how different it is to enable almost 100% free flight.
Although it would be ideal, I definitely don't think it's reasonable to expect such a modification to existing maps (sorry, not even New Romulus). On the other hand, the new Risa should definitely stay around. Why go through all the trouble of designing and implementing the place only to use it once a year? That wouldn't make any sense, Cryptic.
After the summer event, they could maybe take out the more "eventful" features (like earning the Corvette) and leave the rest for the people who want to get the new costumes, enjoy some floating time, or just doing some vacation role-playing. After all, the shows never say that Risa is open only for few weeks of the year. Also, they could add other missions and tasks (a few enemies doing mischief from time to time) somewhat like New Romulus, so the place doesn't get boring after a few days (or for some, a few hours).
And also people, please don't complain about things that haven't happened yet. Some are going so far as to argue that Cryptic won't allow floaters anywhere else, ever, because they're lazy, greedy or whatever. Let's just make sure they know that we want more floaters, and I'm confident that from time to time (not very often though) they will add a new mission or zone where we can use them. But really, don't expect them to go changing major, already existing maps and zones just because we want them to. We already should know better.
By the way, Risa looks absolutely gorgeous from orbit.
I think this form of flying would be very appropriate for a map intended to represent EVA.
Could someone equip their "floater" and use it in space like that? Seems reasonable, depending on where.
Again, not everywhere because it's too much of a resource drain to build the maps that way. And freeform flight would probably end up breaking the intended flow of certain missions, so they shouldn't be allowed on those maps. (Thinking about the DS9 mission in The 2800, especially.) Enforcing a flight ceiling on the maps that do allow it is also a good idea.
Vlugta would be a good place to allow floaters for those who equip them. But there would have to be invisible walls and an invisible ceiling, so we shouldn't expect that the effect will be perfect.
New Romulus would be a beautiful place for floaters, but I'm sure it wouldn't be practical there. And again, invisible walls and ceilings if it were doable.
IMO, enabling for Foundry in general would not be practical, sad to say. We'd get a handful of mind-blowing missions and a heck of a lot more that were completely broken.
But having it as an option for certain maps meant for exploration on an alien planet would be totally cool. I would love to see at least one ground map that's built for flying included as a Foundry asset.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
...if foundry allowed us to make our own PvP Maps and rules... this would already be a thing.
but since the foundry is only used for "storytelling" missions... :rolleyes:
Well, as a lifetime paying customer, I'd like to see the effort put into the game to allow Jetpacks anywhere. so Cryptic, if you are reading, please consider this.
i want the floaters to be used on all maps (ground) and let us shoot too would be just so much fun
You need both hands to fly... tho I suppose, if they did let you shoot, you should be able to do so while spiraling out of control towards wherever the gravity is coming from.
I have no doubt in my mind that the developers already have plans to add missions with them at a later date probably as part of some combat related mission. So far I've seen they tend to add little chunks of content that are test beds for a larger missions.
I could see Floaters being added to other maps if combat deactivates the Floater and you can hover only a meter above the ground. No need to change the maps since you don't even get any higher than usual. Sure it would be a quicker and easier method of travel than frosted boots, but we wouldn't have the freedom of movement given by Risa.
Sorry if thats too blunt, but the world is full of idiots, in every walk of life.
if you have not noticed them then i congratulate you on making it this far in your life but they are there and im not going to pretend they are not just to spare some feelings.
no the customer is not always right. this was a saying originated in a shop to make sure individual customers felt taken care of. like 'my food is cold', or 'my new clothes are the wrong size'. they would accommodate them. not, 'i dont like the way your shop is laid out. please change it now.'
it has since been overblown and overused to the point where people now believe it is to be used in every situation, no matter how outrageous. whole aspects of the game should change because some people think it should?
it has no relevance in an MMO where everyone opinion is different, usually totally subjective and more often than not are in total conflict with other peoples.
I think it's probably easier to say that the customer is never wrong to want things but what they say they want is a poor indicator.
A customer may say they want hot soup. Customers REALLY want to feel clever or loved or secure. The hot soup is a road to get there. And the business exists to fill that need. They can get the customer hot soup. Or they can figure out what the customer REALLY wants and find a shortcut towards pleasing them if they can't get the hot soup or want to please the customer another way. And the customer who says, "No. I REALLY want hot soup" wants a feeling of control, not actually the soup.
They may have a mix of needs converging on the soup (hunger, allergies, nostalgia, desire for control). But you can still potentially fill the need differently once you've analyzed the customer.
If you decide not to fill the need, that person is not a customer. But if you want them as a customer, you figure out how to fill the need.
It's not so much that the customer is always right. It's that the customer is never wrong in saying they have a want. They just may not know what the want is. As a business, you can fill the want directly (and often might as well if it's simple) or indirectly (and might if the customer's stated want isn't something you can do OR if you think you have enough insight to fill their real need better).
I think the interesting thing for me about the jetpacks is that movement control highlights what ground gameplay is missing. I actually don't mind the "press F" type gameplay/missions or lack of combat if movement is interesting enough. I think maybe that's actually the great weakness of ground gameplay. It's not that shooter mode can't be fun or the combat retuning they did with that wasn't good or even that a cover system as some have proposed wouldn't be nice in a perfect world. But at the heart of it all, movement needs to be more integral. And I think if movement got properly treated as a gameplay system, you could have much more entertaining non-combat missions.
Comments
You have found the solution !
Only in this maps, ok, on New Romulus
Good idea, but only in maps valocy says
Sorry if thats too blunt, but the world is full of idiots, in every walk of life.
if you have not noticed them then i congratulate you on making it this far in your life but they are there and im not going to pretend they are not just to spare some feelings.
no the customer is not always right. this was a saying originated in a shop to make sure individual customers felt taken care of. like 'my food is cold', or 'my new clothes are the wrong size'. they would accommodate them. not, 'i dont like the way your shop is laid out. please change it now.'
it has since been overblown and overused to the point where people now believe it is to be used in every situation, no matter how outrageous. whole aspects of the game should change because some people think it should?
it has no relevance in an MMO where everyone opinion is different, usually totally subjective and more often than not are in total conflict with other peoples.
--The whole Risa event is a little disappointing for me, on a side note. These devices are simply not making it any better.
Playing Since: October 28, 2009
Why not disable height on the floaters?
The floaters would essentially levitate the player a few centimeters above the ground, and allow them to travel really fast above the ground, but they can't go zipping all up and down maps. It would be like a pair of Frosted Boots, but your feet never touch the ground.
(Note: This would only be in place in areas outside of Risa. On Risa, height would work like normal.)
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
As far as how Cryptic can monetize this (because let's be honest, that's important in a F2P model) do it exactly the same as EV suits. They could make a couple of premium jetpacks (with new models of course) to be sold in the C-store, some for the Lobi store, and then give out a free rental/loaner (probably on par with the rental on Risa) for new players/characters to use if they missed the Risa event.
This would let us use the cool new jetpacks that we got, let Cryptic make some cash, and this way poor Taco doesn't have to suffer going back and redoing every single map to be jetpack friendly. I'd be good with that.
Mine Trap Supporter
Ohhhhhhh-Kaaayyyyy...
Do you actually think you are educating me here or something??
My original comment (about the customer always being right) was very 'tongue in cheek' to make light of a Dev openly claiming they can't be bothered and don't want to do their job (the green smiley should have been a hint towards my sarcasm). HOWEVER - the devs should be listening to their customers regarding feedback and wishes and not just passing it off because they don't like it personally or can't be arsed.
People are not idiots (as you seem to think) and if you honestly believe they are then you should perhaps take a look in the mirror and wonder if these same people think the same about you - Just sayin like....
OBVIOUSLY there are plenty of morons in the world but there are also PLENTY of wonderfully brilliant people in the world too, yet for some reason you seem to think everyone (except your brilliantly good self of course) is an idiot... what a way to see the world.
Glad I am nowhere near as pessimistic as your awesomely perfect self.... lad
I bow down before you 'oh great one' and bet for your permission to proceed with my presents on this forum....
JOG ON
BACK TO TOPIC LIKE:
Would definitely be nice to have the jetpacks/floaters available on some other selected zones but would also be nice if you could customise them a bit too - with say, fleet logo and colours.
Rental to friends and/or giving a lift to a buddy may be a little bit too far like, but would still be quality if done
Great kid, don't get penisy!
This keeps them out of the greater game world for those who have a problem with that, but allows for fun, inventive things like jetpack racing and who knows what else.
They never said it was impossible, they said they didn't want to.
There's a HUGE difference here, because maps weren't designed or built with flight in mind so they're not solid and there will be loads of issues with geometry if they allow it.
Anyone who's used the bug to get outside ESD knows this, it's easy to get on top of ESD and then fall through the ceiling back inside. The roofs aren't solid, and I'd imagine that's a common theme on lots of maps. I don't think they really want us flying around outside ESD and looking at all the developer junk and getting stuck inside all of the mess. It's not going to happen, sorry guys.
Maybe for future map, but they're not going to retrofit old maps - because it's so much work and really there are better things they can be spending those thousands of man hours on.
So it's a -1 from me.
Kirk's Protege.
Did i say everyone was an idiot? did i say i was a genius? im sure loads of people think im an idiot. good for them. when i say the world is full of idiots i dont actually mean everyone. i would have thought that would have been fairly obvious what i meant to anyone reading it? Perhaps I just assumed too much and you wouldn't take my words far too literally? what's the difference between 'full of idiots' and in your own words 'plenty of morons'? or are you just arguing semantics?
and there is a difference between not changing huge aspects of every map to accommodate something not everyone wants, could break missions and would require a huge amount of time to fix things for little reward with being too lazy and cant be asked to do it, as you seem to think.
its their job to work on the game, it does not actually matter which aspect they work on. putting their feet up and doing nothing is being lazy. working on other aspects over this is not being lazy. there is a huge difference in the two. i would have thought that would be pretty obvious too.
you basically tell them that its tough luck they dont want to change it despite numerous reasons why they might not want to, and that they basically should do it anyway, so forgive me if your tongue in cheek did not exactly shine through.
As a basis for comparison, in how many places are we allowed to use the EV suit reaction thrusters? That ability is already very limited, even when it's for floating only 1-2 feet above ground and using pre-established waypoints...Imagine how different it is to enable almost 100% free flight.
Although it would be ideal, I definitely don't think it's reasonable to expect such a modification to existing maps (sorry, not even New Romulus). On the other hand, the new Risa should definitely stay around. Why go through all the trouble of designing and implementing the place only to use it once a year? That wouldn't make any sense, Cryptic.
After the summer event, they could maybe take out the more "eventful" features (like earning the Corvette) and leave the rest for the people who want to get the new costumes, enjoy some floating time, or just doing some vacation role-playing. After all, the shows never say that Risa is open only for few weeks of the year. Also, they could add other missions and tasks (a few enemies doing mischief from time to time) somewhat like New Romulus, so the place doesn't get boring after a few days (or for some, a few hours).
And also people, please don't complain about things that haven't happened yet. Some are going so far as to argue that Cryptic won't allow floaters anywhere else, ever, because they're lazy, greedy or whatever. Let's just make sure they know that we want more floaters, and I'm confident that from time to time (not very often though) they will add a new mission or zone where we can use them. But really, don't expect them to go changing major, already existing maps and zones just because we want them to. We already should know better.
By the way, Risa looks absolutely gorgeous from orbit.
Could someone equip their "floater" and use it in space like that? Seems reasonable, depending on where.
Again, not everywhere because it's too much of a resource drain to build the maps that way. And freeform flight would probably end up breaking the intended flow of certain missions, so they shouldn't be allowed on those maps. (Thinking about the DS9 mission in The 2800, especially.) Enforcing a flight ceiling on the maps that do allow it is also a good idea.
Vlugta would be a good place to allow floaters for those who equip them. But there would have to be invisible walls and an invisible ceiling, so we shouldn't expect that the effect will be perfect.
New Romulus would be a beautiful place for floaters, but I'm sure it wouldn't be practical there. And again, invisible walls and ceilings if it were doable.
IMO, enabling for Foundry in general would not be practical, sad to say. We'd get a handful of mind-blowing missions and a heck of a lot more that were completely broken.
But having it as an option for certain maps meant for exploration on an alien planet would be totally cool. I would love to see at least one ground map that's built for flying included as a Foundry asset.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
EVA Suit, low gravity SPACE map, PVP + JetPacks.
...if foundry allowed us to make our own PvP Maps and rules... this would already be a thing.
but since the foundry is only used for "storytelling" missions... :rolleyes:
Thank you
-- Smoov
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I think it's probably easier to say that the customer is never wrong to want things but what they say they want is a poor indicator.
A customer may say they want hot soup. Customers REALLY want to feel clever or loved or secure. The hot soup is a road to get there. And the business exists to fill that need. They can get the customer hot soup. Or they can figure out what the customer REALLY wants and find a shortcut towards pleasing them if they can't get the hot soup or want to please the customer another way. And the customer who says, "No. I REALLY want hot soup" wants a feeling of control, not actually the soup.
They may have a mix of needs converging on the soup (hunger, allergies, nostalgia, desire for control). But you can still potentially fill the need differently once you've analyzed the customer.
If you decide not to fill the need, that person is not a customer. But if you want them as a customer, you figure out how to fill the need.
It's not so much that the customer is always right. It's that the customer is never wrong in saying they have a want. They just may not know what the want is. As a business, you can fill the want directly (and often might as well if it's simple) or indirectly (and might if the customer's stated want isn't something you can do OR if you think you have enough insight to fill their real need better).
I think the interesting thing for me about the jetpacks is that movement control highlights what ground gameplay is missing. I actually don't mind the "press F" type gameplay/missions or lack of combat if movement is interesting enough. I think maybe that's actually the great weakness of ground gameplay. It's not that shooter mode can't be fun or the combat retuning they did with that wasn't good or even that a cover system as some have proposed wouldn't be nice in a perfect world. But at the heart of it all, movement needs to be more integral. And I think if movement got properly treated as a gameplay system, you could have much more entertaining non-combat missions.
even if they have to remove the booster(space bar).
i would still love to use the jet back on other places..